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The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3



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  #61  
Old January 7th, 2009, 8:17 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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That's my major issue with the way things ended, too. Bella was supposed to face consequences when she gave up her mortality - like having kids and seeing her parents - and she ended up not having like any because Smeyer wanted Bella to be special and for everything to be perfect. It just really bothers me.
Yes, same. It was almost as though, despite the suspension of realism involved in the books, it went a bit too far with the ultimate perfection. I missed the idea that Bella would have to suffer, it seemed better to me that something, anything would have been almost too difficult to face.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 8:20 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Call me crazy -- I actually liked that this was a gooey happy ending. I almost expected people to die in HP but in Twilight I was quite content to have them part happily in the sunset. I'd LOVE to see a story about Nessie and Jacob and how the Cullens/Pack are doing. Perhaps the Volturi come back, perhaps groups of covens decide to revolt and the Cullens get trapped in the middle, perhaps the Volturi want to irradicate the pack..the possibilities are endless.
I would love to see that story told!! It would be interesting to see things from Nessie's pov actually after she grows up and how Nahuel and the others fit in. You're right. The possibilities are endless. It may not be so centered on edward and bella anymore, but it would still be amazing.

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I like happy endings. So many times in life we don't get happy endings so it was nice to feel all gooey and gooshie about this. I'm not sure how to describe it. I would have been furious had they killed Nessie/Edward/Jacob or ANY of the Cullens, the series would feel so incomplete without each contributing personality. (even Rosalie grumble grumble)

thoughts?
Well, what some of us were discussing is that they still could have had a big battle, but not have any of the cullens or jacob die. They may lose some of the other vampires and the pack but not the core characters-sort of like hp. I still think it would be a relatively happy ending, and a lot of fans would have felt more satisfied. I still didn't mind the ending we got but I agree that more closure was needed in terms of the volturi.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 11:40 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Personally, I won't read any more novels in the Twilightverse. Breaking Dawn really put me off. I don't want to read about Jacob and Nessie being perfectly happy with each other, then facing a minor catastrophe that turns out all right for everyone, and riding off into the sunset. I was hoping for Meyer's writing skills to develop in the course of the series but I felt disappointed after finishing the series.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 11:47 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Personally, I won't read any more novels in the Twilightverse. Breaking Dawn really put me off. I don't want to read about Jacob and Nessie being perfectly happy with each other, then facing a minor catastrophe that turns out all right for everyone, and riding off into the sunset. I was hoping for Meyer's writing skills to develop in the course of the series but I felt disappointed after finishing the series.
Couldn't agree more about the Jacob/Nessie thing. Like in BD when Bella was talking about how Carlisle or whoever told her about the vamp ladies who made vamp babies and were eliminated I totally knew she was gonna get preggers and the Volts were gonna feebly wave their fists in impotent rage at her but not do anything about it and everyone was gonna live happily ever after, I know that the minor conflict that would occur with Jacob and Nessie would end exactly the same way.


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Old January 7th, 2009, 11:49 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Well, not all new writers are like that. For me, it's the opposite way. So many times, it feels as if it is my characters who are writing the story. Sometimes, it's almost as if they are taking my hand in theirs (like in pre-school, where your nusery teacher helps you to shape your first 'A'?) and are writing for me. Do I make any sense?
Absolutely, and I totally agree. Every great writer has said that the characters took over. And I wonder this: when readers are dissatisfied with an ending or with a character and the path they took, is it because maybe the writer didn't let the character have its say and "forced" the issue, like I was doing? That when you let go and let them lead you, it has a better more natural feel to it?

Just a thought.



As to the happy ending:

In general, yes, I like happy endings. But it depends on the story and whether or not it should have a happy ending. Some stories are good because the ending isn't happy - it fits with the plot, with the characters, or with the theme that the book was trying to get across.

For the Twilight series, I think a happy ending was possible, just not as "perfect" as Meyer made it.

Part of me is willing to believe that Bella wasn't meant to suffer much in becoming a vampire because it was her "destiny" to not be human anymore (see some of my previous posts where I give my "excuse" or "explanation" as to why Bella may seem so anti-social with humans and why she seems to give all that up so easily for Edward). She was a clumsy shy human and her life seemed awful unhappy - so she gets a gift - becoming a vampire where she's strong and graceful and she somehow just feels more comfortable in that world.

On the other hand, Meyer made a big deal out of Edward telling her what she was giving up and it would have been nice for her to acknowledge that some how. To have some conflict ultimately in making that choice.

It could have started out in New Moon where, instead of being "comatose" for 4 months, she could have started hanging out more with the humans at high school, especially Angela. Yes, she should have been with Jacob as well, but I would have done it differently and had more romance. The whole "She had no idea that she was in love with him" made the Bella/Jacob "romance" pretty much luke warm for me. I saw how Jacob loved Bella, absolutely. But for me, Bella was just being a "tease". I got no indication at all that she might love him. I know it's from her POV and we're supposed to get hit over the head with it when she does, but I just don't like that kind of storytelling. I want to hear her thoughts as she agonizes over the feelings she's having. I want to KNOW. That's the point of seeing through someone's POV. Not necessarily Third Person Omniscient POV, but at least something.

So that's an improvement Meyer could have made right there - Bella starts to become more connected to the human world such that she can start to have some second thoughts about it all.

As for Nessie - I'm not sure what the plot point really was in Bella getting pregnant. Was it so Edward would have no choice but to change her? I figured that's one way that Meyer would have gone anyway. I figured Edward would never do it unless he had to. But I don't know if this was the best way to do it. Why a baby? It just feels "forced" to me. As for it being "perfect" for Bella, I never heard Bella say that she wanted children. She didn't even want to get married, so in having Nessie, the only thing it gave her was becoming a vampire. Yes, she loves her daughter, absolutely. But I don't see this as inherently something extra for her. It's not like "not having children" was ever a reason she considered for NOT becoming a vampire. Not that I remember anyway.

As for being a newborn - I thought it kind of went with Bella's ability to control her thoughts so strongly that even Edward couldn't read them. So at first it kind of makes sense.

Then again, it would have been nice to see her struggle with it, to realize that Edward was right, and for her to feel a little bit guilty, especially if she say, messed up and fed on a human or something, or even found herself going after Charlie.

As for the Volturi, either they had some kind of importance to the whole thing, or they were just put there for conflict. The way Meyer wrote it, it feels like the latter, when it could have been the former. And I've already given my humble opinion on possible battle scenes for that.

I just think that Meyer was so focused on telling "Bella's story" that she just either refused to branch out a bit, as JKR did (I mean, HP is quite a web of stories and not just about Harry; JKR seemed to have a good talent at making sure that you felt like you were part of this magical universe), or she just was not able to do it due to lack of experience. She took too much on perhaps.

And I think that maybe if she had taken some more time, gotten a better editor, it could have ultimately been a much better, richer, deeper story.


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  #66  
Old January 7th, 2009, 11:57 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Personally, I won't read any more novels in the Twilightverse. Breaking Dawn really put me off. I don't want to read about Jacob and Nessie being perfectly happy with each other, then facing a minor catastrophe that turns out all right for everyone, and riding off into the sunset. I was hoping for Meyer's writing skills to develop in the course of the series but I felt disappointed after finishing the series.
i might just read just for purposes of seeing how much of a lesson Meyer learned. Overall, they were a good read and maybe after BD she can get better. But i absolutely refuse to buy another book from twilightverse, totally pointless.


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Old January 9th, 2009, 6:12 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Just like to point out that Meyer's universe is pretty screwy at the biology part, since apparently vamps and humans can reproduce even though the chromosome numbers are different. And wolves and humans can produce fertile offspring despite chromosome differences, which is supposed to be biologically impossible.


that's an amazing theory, but the problem is that what about vampires? do their cells never age and die or split? if that was true, then they wouldn't need blood, but they and nessie do. Also, Nessie is supposed to become very similar to a vampire once she grows enough, she's supposed to become frozen in time. Actually, scratch that, I think we should compare Nessie to werewolves. ok, even if we did that, vampires would be the odd one out.
sorry for taking so long to reply. I think you're write about that, and I think it's because Meyer didn't follow her plot to its logical conclusion before writing it. I was just trying to figure out from what we know of the characters what we could assume about Nessie. It's never been explained why vampires need to drink blood, so there's no way to know about their cellular activity. All we know is that their mouths are full of venom (and presumably other orifices as well since Bella's venom dissolved her colored contacts in BD). We don't know what their food does for their bodies or even what kind of tissue we're talking about at all when it comes to their make-up. It would be nice to know more about what Meyer thinks of all that since her vampire characters are so knowledgeable about pretty much everything supernatural and should therefore know more about themselves than she's let on in the books.


as for the lack of deaths in the series, I don't think it's right to judge Meyer on not killing characters. The story has always been "marketed" as one about a romance. It's not fair to compare it to Harry Potter just because they're both fantasy books. Harry Potter is more a hero epic than anything else, while the Twilight series is clearly a story about romance. One thing that the genre of romance entails is that an unrealistically happy ending is not out of the question, in fact it is quite possibly more a rule than an exception. Even Dracula, the most popular vampire novel, ends with only two deaths (minor characters). Lucy, who becomes a vampire after dying, even gets a happy ending by being "destroyed" by the vampire hunters and therefore sent to heaven.

I don't think it's necessary for there to have been deaths in the Twilight series because "realism" was never what Meyer was about in the books. None of it really makes sense as far as a typical "plot." You would expect that the hero and heroine come to this climactic moment where they realize they've fallen for each other and that's where the story would end, but that's not how Twilight went. Edward stood on the head of a pin for most of the book, and the solidification of the relationship was so indirect I was confused about what had happened at all. the rest of the series changes the typical "love story" outline considerably by having Edward abandon Bella and having her fall head over heels for Jacob. After that you might expect for Bella to just suddenly realize that it's Edward that she "truly" loves, but it remains a blurry line between friendship and romance for Bella and Jacob up until the moment Renesmee is born in BD.

I know I've written a novel here, but I think it's unfair to compare the series to other ones because I really don't think a story has to be realistic to be good.


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Old January 9th, 2009, 6:20 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^I agree about the Harry Potter comparison being unnecessary and irrelevent, and to some extent I see your point about the lack of deaths not being a huge problem. However, it's not so much the fact that no one died in the final standoff with the Volturi, but that the issues with them were left unresolved. So they decided, for now, to leave Nessie and the rest of the Cullens alone. Is that it? Are they giving up? Even SM said not really. So what happens now? Are we really expected to believe that Bella and her little family will, indeed, live happily ever after from now on? The Volturi strike me as the same kind of infinitely patient villain as Mum-Ra in Thundercats (yes, I'm referencing an '80s cartoon - what?) - they didn't get what they wanted now, but they're happy to just hang out for another, oh, hundred years or so to come up with a better plan. And then, they'll be back. The Romanians seem to feel the same way.

(In fact, I'm thinking about writing a fanfic centered on Nessie and Jacob with this in mind.)


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  #69  
Old January 9th, 2009, 8:36 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

Well, even if Twilight is a romance, there is still stuff like James and the Volturi. And so much is unresolved, which is the main problem. I was more of saying that a better resolution would include the Cullens and vampires stopping the Volturi permanently or at least more of a clearer victory involving actual combat and maybe not deaths, but at least injuries. Meyer had enough sense to make Bella suffer major injuries in Twilight, and Jake suffer broken bones in Eclipse, so why not in Breaking Dawn?


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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:05 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Well, even if Twilight is a romance, there is still stuff like James and the Volturi. And so much is unresolved, which is the main problem. I was more of saying that a better resolution would include the Cullens and vampires stopping the Volturi permanently or at least more of a clearer victory involving actual combat and maybe not deaths, but at least injuries. Meyer had enough sense to make Bella suffer major injuries in Twilight, and Jake suffer broken bones in Eclipse, so why not in Breaking Dawn?[/QUOTE}
Yeah, as far as I'm concerned the ending is completely unresolved. Bella and edward may walk off into wedded bliss at the end, but it is not "forever" because there is no doubt with the volturi guard still intact and undefeated- they will be back to exact vengeance on the cullens.

That's why no matter what SM says, I can't see it ending this way. It's like leaving voldemort alive at the end of deathly hallows.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:29 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I agree that the ending doesn't really lead very well into the last lines of the novel, their own little piece of forever and whatnot. I don't think it was wrong to leave the plot the way she did, but she didn't acknowledge in the final lines that she was leaving them in a state of anticipation. The narrative became as that of closure when the plot was not at all closed. I could be happy with how the standoff with the Volturi went down if Bella had not appeared so oblivious to the inevitable future at the end of the book. I don't know that she should have made a more climactic (and final) Volturi battle as much as I think she should have made it seem as if Bella wasn't so happy and content with her future. But hey, it's better than a sappy epilogue where middle-aged characters are acting like teenagers.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 12:59 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Yeah, as far as I'm concerned the ending is completely unresolved. Bella and edward may walk off into wedded bliss at the end, but it is not "forever" because there is no doubt with the volturi guard still intact and undefeated- they will be back to exact vengeance on the cullens.

That's why no matter what SM says, I can't see it ending this way. It's like leaving voldemort alive at the end of deathly hallows.
Exactly, though I would love Voldy to be alive at the end, wouldn't be a good story to me . I feel the same about the Volturi, I like them and I don't hate them every fiber of my being, but as a story, they should be vanquished because it's supposed to be a sappy love story


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Old January 10th, 2009, 1:27 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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I agree that the ending doesn't really lead very well into the last lines of the novel, their own little piece of forever and whatnot. I don't think it was wrong to leave the plot the way she did, but she didn't acknowledge in the final lines that she was leaving them in a state of anticipation. The narrative became as that of closure when the plot was not at all closed. I could be happy with how the standoff with the Volturi went down if Bella had not appeared so oblivious to the inevitable future at the end of the book. I don't know that she should have made a more climactic (and final) Volturi battle as much as I think she should have made it seem as if Bella wasn't so happy and content with her future. But hey, it's better than a sappy epilogue where middle-aged characters are acting like teenagers.
Yes- I can't imagine bella being completely oblivious to the fact that the volturi would be back. She was always such a worry wart too in the past. In eclipse she was either worried about the volturi or victoria. I know she's a powerful vampire now, but she should have realized that the volturi would come back to hunt them down again. Even edward admitted that. Now when I think about it, that whole "piece of forever" is completely temporary. I think it would be fine to let bella be happy for awhile- she deserved that. But, there should have been some indication that this story was far from over. The standoff against the volturi was the end of a battle, (well actually, the battle never even really started) but not the end of the war so to speak.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 3:31 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Yeah, as far as I'm concerned the ending is completely unresolved. Bella and edward may walk off into wedded bliss at the end, but it is not "forever" because there is no doubt with the volturi guard still intact and undefeated- they will be back to exact vengeance on the cullens.
(Emphasis added)

The interesting thing to note is that, not only is the book weird in that it finishes without the ending I so entirely expected and to an extent desired, despite my overall appreciation of the Volturi and their stories,it makes the notation that Edward and Bella will be together forever. Does SM mean us to believe that the Volturi will never, ever again try to get the Cullens onside?

There had to be a better way, imo, to make them finish their convoluted dealings with one another.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 6:04 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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(Emphasis added)

The interesting thing to note is that, not only is the book weird in that it finishes without the ending I so entirely expected and to an extent desired, despite my overall appreciation of the Volturi and their stories,it makes the notation that Edward and Bella will be together forever. Does SM mean us to believe that the Volturi will never, ever again try to get the Cullens onside?

There had to be a better way, imo, to make them finish their convoluted dealings with one another.

Maybe Meyer wanted to leave that part of the story open. That way people can form their own conclusions about whether the Volturi come back or not. That open plot line leaves so much room for fanfic.

But also, imo, it is so obviously left open that it is like a cheesy old movie that ends with "the end?"

i wish that Meyer had ended the Volturi story line more definitely, but maybe she left it open for people's imagination.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 6:41 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Maybe Meyer wanted to leave that part of the story open. That way people can form their own conclusions about whether the Volturi come back or not. That open plot line leaves so much room for fanfic.

But also, imo, it is so obviously left open that it is like a cheesy old movie that ends with "the end?"

i wish that Meyer had ended the Volturi story line more definitely, but maybe she left it open for people's imagination.
You could very well be correct- but it does seem a bit too much of a romance story for it to be left open for further trouble, if you know what I mean. I guess that this does count as one of my biggest gripes with the books. I guess it will always be that way! !


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Old January 10th, 2009, 7:18 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

unfortunately . I did happen to like the open ending in The Host though, that was way better done to me than Twilight


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Old January 10th, 2009, 8:06 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^I'm insatiably curious about The Host now. I keep hearing such good things about it, but I don't know if I can convince myself to invest anymore time or money into Stephenie Meyers's work.

I agree that it leaves plenty of room for speculation and fanfic, and I believe she did say somewhere that, although Bella's story is over, she's not against the idea of expanding this universe a bit. I don't know if that's what she's intending to do, though. Personally I think it's just an accident, the type of which happens when author's let a story run away and just end it without summoning the energy to really end it.


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Old January 10th, 2009, 11:50 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I agree about the open-ended end of the Host was much better done than the end of BD. At the end of the Host I felt pretty much satisfied with the they way she left it, but at the end of BD I was just kind of disappointed.


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Old January 11th, 2009, 2:36 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

i was trying to think of how Meyer could have changed the end of BD so that it was more final and I really couldn't think of anything. What should she have done differently, specifically?


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