Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2



View Poll Results: Was Lily a good friend to Snape?
No, she should have tried harder to keep him away from the dark side. 14 9.52%
Kind of. She probably did her best but gave up a little easily. 48 32.65%
Yes, she was. But friendships end all the time and she had good reason to sever their ties. 72 48.98%
Yes. I believe that she should have ended their friendship earlier. 23 15.65%
I don't fully agree with any of the options and will state my opinion in a post. 15 10.20%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:37 pm
LinnendeBlack's Avatar
LinnendeBlack  Female.gif LinnendeBlack is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5682 days
Location: Liverpool, England
Age: 31
Posts: 1,395
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathlyH View Post
She left snape for a reason, though. I don't think it was only the fact that he said Mudblood sometimes, but that he was hanging around with Death Eaters at all. That must have upset Lily a lot. And all the Death Eaters blanned to torture Muggleborns, didn't they? So obviously Liy wouldn't like that. I don't find her at fault at all.
Yes I agree with that. Lily didn't like the fact that Snape hung around with people that liked to torture muggles, and when she confronted him about it he made excuses for them and tried to turn the conversation around to about the 'bad things' that James and Sirius had been up to.


__________________


~ Eric Northman ~

Because real vampires don't sparkle.

Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:39 pm
Beatifically's Avatar
Beatifically  Female.gif Beatifically is offline
Elvendork
 
Joined: 4825 days
Location: Central Perk
Age: 27
Posts: 2,183
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
so really u guys think that lily has done nothing wrong in snapes life? at all?
The only wrong I see with what Lily did is not end her friendship with him sooner.

Quote:
and if u wre picked on and stuff ud want more than one friend
Yes, but I would also listen to my friend if he or she told me that I was participating in activities that are considered to be evil by society.

Quote:
and plus u would wnat revege and pick on others with "dark magic"
Dark Magic and revenge are never justified - it just shows that the person is just as bad as another, IMO. So, no, I would never go so low as to use Dark Magic.


__________________

CoS and Pottermore sorted
You will never do anything in this world without courage.
It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.

- Aristotle

Specialises in awesome picspams.
  #83  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:40 pm
DeliciousMoon's Avatar
DeliciousMoon  Female.gif DeliciousMoon is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4551 days
Location: Canada
Posts: 928
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Beatifically
The only wrong I see with what Lily did is not end her friendship with him sooner.
Agree.

It was not Lily's responsibility to be Snape's friend. Imo, leaving Snape was not a bad thing to do. She tried to change him for five years, she saw it was not only making no impact, but he was actually becoming worse as a person! Just because she did not want to associate with a future death eater, did not make her a bad person.

Snape was lucky Lily stubbornly stayed by his side for so long imo.


__________________
  #84  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:45 pm
CathyWeasley's Avatar
CathyWeasley  Female.gif CathyWeasley is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5439 days
Location: ...erm...
Age: 54
Posts: 2,455
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk
I think jerk is putting it mildly
Yes it's that famous English habit of understatement!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekgk
We're told that he used to hang out with a gang of Slytherins who all became DEs. We're shown that he was accepted and welcomed into Slytherin by Lucius Malfoy. Sirius later calls him Malfoy's lapdog, which does indicate that they were close. He also supposedly hangs out with Avery and Mulciber, after Lucius has left. He even seems to be close to Narcissa, and perhaps, even to Bellatrix. He was also one of Slughorn's proteges, apparently. So, I can't say that he was 'socially awkward', because he seems to have had no trouble at all with all these people.
But Snape doesn't have any real friends apart from Lily and Dumbledore. I'm not sure that he was one of Slughorn's proteges either but I won't go into that here. The way I see it is that Harry had Ron and Hermione - yeah they had arguments but as friends went they were great. Voldemort didn't even want friends. I see Snape as someone who was nervous of other people and the way they would react to him. He was afraid of rejection, and that combined with a naturally introverted personality made him socially awkward. He didn't like social occasions and didn't mix well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatifically
And I disagree - Harry did need it for his parents provided him strength. I can't agree that an orphan does not need reminders of his or her parents. Harry did, after all, take the only portion of the photograph with him on his journey to hunt Horcruxes.
I worded it badly. I think Snape's need was greater than Harry's at that time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinnendeBlack
Yes but who's to say that a teenage boy going crazy for a girl who didn't have the same feelings for him isn't love? I think it is love, but this is just my opinion.
Mine too! I think his subsequent actions show that it was love. Harry certainly though it was love.


__________________




Even if everyone hates him for it, that's the sacrifice he's making. He's not being the hero. He's being something more.

He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.


Pottermore name: FlightMoonstone199

On CoS I'm in On Pottermore I'm in Maple and Unicorn, Thirteen and Three Quarter inches, Pliant

My Fanfic - Snape's Happy Ending


Avatar by Ben when he was 5- he's now 13!
  #85  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:47 pm
_LoonyLovegood_'s Avatar
_LoonyLovegood_  Female.gif _LoonyLovegood_ is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4569 days
Location: J-Man and Channy's.
Age: 28
Posts: 412
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
nah i cant agree with all that
this is getting intense

u really think she shouldve ended it sooner?
ppl make mistakes u noe

forgive and forget u noe move on

i think snape has barely done anything wrong tho

compared with lily
People make mistakes, yes. Snape did not just make a mistake, he joined a group that performed evil magic, a group aspiring to be Death Eaters - people who kill and torture those of Lily's heritage. How would you feel if your best friend joined a group devoted to killing people who are like you? I'm sorry, but I fail to see how you can consider that barely doing anything wrong. Lily tried to continue the friendship; despite everything Snape was doing, she continued to be a good friend to him. Using a word that's probably the foulest name in the wizarding world on her was the final straw.


__________________


Signature by ~under-blue-skies on DA
  #86  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:48 pm
DeliciousMoon's Avatar
DeliciousMoon  Female.gif DeliciousMoon is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4551 days
Location: Canada
Posts: 928
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
i think snape has barely done anything wrong tho

compared with lily
Could you please explain what you think Lily should have done instead to be labelled a "good friend"?


__________________

Last edited by DeliciousMoon; March 29th, 2008 at 11:50 pm.
  #87  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:53 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5483 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinnendeBlack View Post
Yes I agree with that. Lily didn't like the fact that Snape hung around with people that liked to torture muggles,
There is no canon that Snape's friends liked to torture Muggles. Some of them went on to such pastimes, certainly, but I see no indication this was already a favorite activity while they were at school. Lily's stated reason to objecting to the behavior of Snape's friends was something they tried (as in, did not succeed) to do to a student in Gryffindor House. And I find it unlikely this something was the Unforgivable Cruciatus Curse, even.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #88  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:54 pm
DeliciousMoon's Avatar
DeliciousMoon  Female.gif DeliciousMoon is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4551 days
Location: Canada
Posts: 928
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasly View Post
But Snape doesn't have any real friends apart from Lily and Dumbledore.
How do you know what Snape's friendships with Mulciber and Avery were really like?


__________________
  #89  
Old March 29th, 2008, 11:58 pm
sirius_lee_G  Female.gif sirius_lee_G is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4519 days
Location: Canada, calgary
Age: 28
Posts: 840
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

he chose dumbledore and lily over them
he ended up betraying them

that should give u an idea

yeah and zgirnias is rite.. they diddnt do such activities baak in skool

they wrent even death eaters

they wre just ppl that wre i guess in a way mean... like james and them


__________________
CALGARY FLAMES:
we never lose games!-we just run outta time

for other hockey team supporters:
its too late to apologize... but its not to late to flamitize!
I'VE GOT A C FLAMING ON MY CHEST!

Proud member of GSWIA! (Guys Sound Wow with an Irish Accent!)

Snape always had a reason

http://www.calgary-city-maps.com/images/CalgaryFlames.gif
  #90  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:02 am
LinnendeBlack's Avatar
LinnendeBlack  Female.gif LinnendeBlack is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5682 days
Location: Liverpool, England
Age: 31
Posts: 1,395
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
There is no canon that Snape's friends liked to torture Muggles. Some of them went on to such pastimes, certainly, but I see no indication this was already a favorite activity while they were at school. Lily's stated reason to objecting to the behavior of Snape's friends was something they tried (as in, did not succeed) to do to a student in Gryffindor House. And I find it unlikely this something was the Unforgivable Cruciatus Curse, even.
My mistake. I haven't got the books to hand and I get things a bit muddled when I try and remember them.


__________________


~ Eric Northman ~

Because real vampires don't sparkle.

  #91  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:03 am
_LoonyLovegood_'s Avatar
_LoonyLovegood_  Female.gif _LoonyLovegood_ is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4569 days
Location: J-Man and Channy's.
Age: 28
Posts: 412
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
he chose dumbledore and lily over them
he ended up betraying them

that should give u an idea
That really doesn't have anything to do with his friendship with them, as it was years later that he chose to turn to Dumbledore's side. I believe DeliciousMoon was referring mainly to his friendships with them while in school (correct me if I'm wrong). He chose to betray them when Lily was going to be killed - he didn't seem to care how many other people were killed by what he was doing, but when it was someone he personally was obsessed with, it suddenly became a problem. Had Lily not been targetted, Snape never would have stopped being a Death Eater. In addition, Lily had already thrice defied Voldemort. Snape didn't choose Lily over the Death Eaters those three times - he only did once he knew it would be partly his fault if she died.

Quote:
yeah and zgirnias is rite.. they diddnt do such activities baak in skool

they wrent even death eaters

they wre just ppl that wre i guess in a way mean... like james and them
We have no canon that they did anything particularly awful, but we have no canon that they didn't. Lily said Snape didn't even deny that they were planning on joining Voldemort, which means Snape was joining a cause devoted to killing people of Lily's heritage.


__________________


Signature by ~under-blue-skies on DA
  #92  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:04 am
DeliciousMoon's Avatar
DeliciousMoon  Female.gif DeliciousMoon is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4551 days
Location: Canada
Posts: 928
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
he chose dumbledore and lily over them
he ended up betraying them
Yeah, but Lily chose James, Sirius, Remus, and Peter over Snape. Does that mean she was never close to Snape?


__________________

Last edited by DeliciousMoon; March 30th, 2008 at 12:06 am.
  #93  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:06 am
DeathlyH's Avatar
DeathlyH  Male.gif DeathlyH is offline
Defender of Dogs
 
Joined: 4914 days
Location: In a dream
Posts: 2,129
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
so really u guys think that lily has done nothing wrong in snapes life? at all?

and if u wre picked on and stuff ud want more than one friend and plus u would wnat revege and pick on others with "dark magic"
If I were getting picked on, I would not use Dark Magic and such to deal with it. Never. I don't think Lily really did anything wrong in her Snape's relationship. Snape ended it by himself by hnging around with the wrong crowd and using the "Mudblood" word.


  #94  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:12 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5483 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by _LoonyLovegood_ View Post
We have no canon that they did anything particularly awful, but we have no canon that they didn't. Lily said Snape didn't even deny that they were planning on joining Voldemort, which means Snape was joining a cause devoted to killing people of Lily's heritage.
We do have canon that Lily did not know of any such activity. Otherwise, she would not have brought up the thing that was not quite done to Mary McDonald, she would have brought up something real.

Unless, of course, it only mattered to Lily when it was one of her friends.

Snape not denying he was going to join Voldemort proves little, for two reasons. First, he was pretty inarticulate in that final conversation - he may not have denied it simply because he was trying to say something else. Something I imagine he probably rehearsed (as one might a very dificult apology or similar conversation) and then Lily left the script on him and made it difficult for him to get a complete sentence out.

Second, because in the opinion of Sirius Black, who has no reason I can see in this instance to lie, his brother Regulus (in a lower year than Snape, that is, later) joined the Death Eaters without knowing how far Voldemort was willing to go. If a Black, a scion of an old, Dark, Pureblood family, could make such a mistake of fact, it is far easier to imagine a Half-blood raised partly in the Muggle world would.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #95  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:13 am
DeathlyH's Avatar
DeathlyH  Male.gif DeathlyH is offline
Defender of Dogs
 
Joined: 4914 days
Location: In a dream
Posts: 2,129
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
and deathlyH
if ur ebing hmuliated in front of everyone ud use some foullanguage too.... he grew up hearing that word it came naturally.. it just acme out hes hardly to blame
He didn't join the Death Eaters only because he was picked on at school. He had really always intended to join them, I think. He didn't join just to seek revenge on all who had picked on him.


  #96  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:15 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5483 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
yeah and zgirnias is rite.. they diddnt do such activities baak in skool
Thanks.

I want to say I agree with you to an extent, that Lily was not 100% blameless in the breakup of the friendship. Though I would not go so far as to absolve Severus of any share of the blame. I voted for the second option in the poll.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #97  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:18 am
DeathlyH's Avatar
DeathlyH  Male.gif DeathlyH is offline
Defender of Dogs
 
Joined: 4914 days
Location: In a dream
Posts: 2,129
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I want to say I agree with you to an extent, that Lily was not 100% blameless in the breakup of the friendship. Though I would not go so far as to absolve Severus of any share of the blame. I voted for the second option in the poll.
I respect your opinion, but when she ended their friendship, Snape was already going down a bad path, and she had warned him about that. He didn't listen to her and continued to hang out with those people, and then called her a Mudblood. IMO it was right of her to end their relationship then, before Snape got any worse.


  #98  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:20 am
DeliciousMoon's Avatar
DeliciousMoon  Female.gif DeliciousMoon is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4551 days
Location: Canada
Posts: 928
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
Second, because in the opinion of Sirius Black, who has no reason I can see in this instance to lie, his brother Regulus (in a lower year than Snape, that is, later) joined the Death Eaters without knowing how far Voldemort was willing to go. If a Black, a scion of an old, Dark, Pureblood family, could make such a mistake of fact, it is far easier to imagine a Half-blood raised partly in the Muggle world would.
The difference between Regulus and Snape is Regulus realised what Voldemort was doing was actually wrong and he changed his morals. Snape only cared when Lily was targetted and would not have switched sides had she not been.

Quote:
I want to say I agree with you to an extent, that Lily was not 100% blameless in the breakup of the friendship.
Well it takes two to break up a friendship. She was the one who ended it. I wouldn't say she wasn't at least a little to blame for the end of the friendship, but I don't think she did anything wrong by ending it. In fact, I believe it was a very good decision.


__________________

Last edited by DeliciousMoon; March 30th, 2008 at 12:22 am.
  #99  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:20 am
sirius_lee_G  Female.gif sirius_lee_G is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4519 days
Location: Canada, calgary
Age: 28
Posts: 840
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

yeah I guess you're right zgnirias
but i do think that lily was to blame more

no DeathlyH if he had planned it all his life he wouldn't have be-friended lily. and no it wasnt to seek revenge and all that

it was partly that and he had broken heart (im not saying he dealt with it all that nicely) but it was how he dealt with it.
but in my opinion he made up for it


__________________
CALGARY FLAMES:
we never lose games!-we just run outta time

for other hockey team supporters:
its too late to apologize... but its not to late to flamitize!
I'VE GOT A C FLAMING ON MY CHEST!

Proud member of GSWIA! (Guys Sound Wow with an Irish Accent!)

Snape always had a reason

http://www.calgary-city-maps.com/images/CalgaryFlames.gif
  #100  
Old March 30th, 2008, 12:22 am
DeathlyH's Avatar
DeathlyH  Male.gif DeathlyH is offline
Defender of Dogs
 
Joined: 4914 days
Location: In a dream
Posts: 2,129
Re: Snape and Lily: Joint Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirius_lee_G View Post
no DeathlyH if he had planned it all his life he wouldn't have be-friended lily. and no it wasnt to seek revenge and all that

it was partly that and he had broken heart (im not saying he dealt with it all that nicely) but it was how he dealt with it.
but in my opinion he made up for it
But didn't it look like he had expected Lily to follow this path too? He willingly went to Slytherin, and seemed surprised and Disappointed when she didn't. I don't think he had planned it all his life, but he had planned it ever since they went to school and he first really learned about Death Eaters. By then he was already friends with Lily.


 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, lily evans potter


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:49 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.