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  #41  
Old July 26th, 2007, 7:58 pm
JC_Rowling  Male.gif JC_Rowling is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Let us not forgive Snape of all his deeds based upon his protection of Harry towards the end. No matter what he was still a bully. His only means of protecting Harry was his undying love of Lily Evans. He is an incredibly brave bully.

I'm personally hoping against all hope that JK Rowling does publish her encyclopedia, I think that is the only hope I have of finding out how Lily and James came together.


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  #42  
Old July 26th, 2007, 8:37 pm
katylynita  Female.gif katylynita is offline
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Re: James and Lily

While Snape loved Lily, it seemed obvious why she didnt love him. He was at times quite as arrogant as James, and he called her a mudblood. Lily could see that Snape had changed since he was a little boy, and he changed in a bad way. He let his grudges get the best of him, and ultimately that is what seperates him from James. Snape allowed Voldemort to kill James, James did not allow Sirius to kill Snape. Yes, it can be argued that James was fearing the consequences, but nonetheless he saved him. Snape did not: even though he was not fully aware of who the prophecy refered to, he was willing to see someone die and be partly responsible. James was not willing to be responsible for a death, be it friend, stranger or enemy


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  #43  
Old July 26th, 2007, 8:46 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I don't think Snape was ever arrogant. I think he was insecure and afraid to say how he felt and got joy in thinking that Lily liked him above James but I have to agree poor Snape never had a chance. Lily liked James even when she called him a toe rag.


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  #44  
Old July 26th, 2007, 9:24 pm
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
Let us not forgive Snape of all his deeds based upon his protection of Harry towards the end. No matter what he was still a bully. His only means of protecting Harry was his undying love of Lily Evans. He is an incredibly brave bully.
Well...I forgave him for it. But then I would, I'm a hopeless optimist. I also think he did care about Harry, but would die before admitting it. Because he's an eejit like that.

The way I see it is this: the James/Lily relationship is most similar to Ron/Hermione. Except with a lot more active dislike, because with R/Hr they do get along, they just bicker ceaselessly.

I feel desperately sorry for Snape. He really was in love with Lily (though how healthy it was (especially at the beginning) I don't know. But James was truly in love with her too. And James was (although starting out as an arrogant teenager, and for all his other faults) completely against the Dark Arts, blood superiority, and a loyal friend to Sirius, Remus and Peter. As well as a loyal boyfriend/fiance/husband to Lily, and father to Harry.

And he grew up, as people do. Harry has never had the chance to be an arrogant little brat: the Dursleys, Umbridge, Dumbledore et al providing a good example/dire warning to him. Probably James grew up very fast during Voldemort's rise to power: and given the choice between what's right and what's easy, took the 'right' option without hesitation. Near-death experiences probably do a lot to deflate one's sense of superiority.

Snape being more morally ambiguous makes him a more interesting and complex character to study, but I don't think he'd ever have made it with Lily.

1) She never showed any interest in him other than being friends.
2) She was often selfless to the point of being reckless (from a Slytherin's point of view anyway) which he wouldn't have got because...
3) Snape didn't understand love well enough to be in a relationship until he had lost her altogether. And not to James, I mean he didn't get it until she died.

I love Lily and James as a couple. Unfortunately we get precious little information about James post-teen arrogance, which is a shame. Still, there's always fanfic.


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  #45  
Old July 26th, 2007, 9:46 pm
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Re: James and Lily

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I think it's obvious as to why Lily ultimately chose James over Snape. While we learn in DH that Snape really is a good man deep down, he obviously has some serious issues regarding his childhood, his attraction to evil, his obvious inability to forgive people i.e. James, and his penchant for holding resentment against others i.e. Harry. James on the other hand, was a very good man albeit arrogant and at times insensitive in his youth. That's something we see him grow out of as he matures, while Snape apparently just couldn't let things go.

I personally think that it was more important Snape's relationship with Lily was explored in DH so we finally get a clear picture as to why Snape made the decisions he did. I don't think it in anyway belittled James and Lily's relationship, but to me seemed to clarify even more so why they ended up together.
I agree. I just think that the books could give more information on James, not only for us fans, but mainly for Harry. He got so little information on his dad, and the images that he saw on Snape's memories showed only the arrogant teenager. At the same time, he got from Sirius information from a person that loved his friend so much that just says that he was great. So he had information mainly from the man that didn't like his father and the one that loved him and missed so much that in the fight in the ministry during Book5 even called Harry James. I missed something in between, more balanced about James. Not even Lupin filled this gap.


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  #46  
Old July 27th, 2007, 9:57 am
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Re: James and Lily

But it's not hard to believe that people's characters can differ dramatically between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one, which is how old James and Lily were when they died. And that's even without the influence of marriage and parenthood, both of which James did experience.
Quote:
he also saved Sirius and Remus from effectively committing a murder, so that can be read both ways.
The fact remains that he still risked his life, and would probably have done so even if Snape had been about to die in a way that had nothing to do with the Marauders.


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  #47  
Old July 27th, 2007, 11:15 am
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Re: James and Lily

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Originally Posted by toonmili View Post
I don't think Snape was ever arrogant. I think he was insecure and afraid to say how he felt and got joy in thinking that Lily liked him above James but I have to agree poor Snape never had a chance. Lily liked James even when she called him a toe rag.
I think she was impressed that he went to help Snape.She might not have expected that from him.


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  #48  
Old July 27th, 2007, 1:01 pm
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Re: James and Lily

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Originally Posted by crashingstar View Post
I feel that with no further explanation and with the new information about Snape it almost pits the reader to feel negatively about the Lily/James relationship. I mean, I know for myself, that I feel so heartbroken about Snapes unrequited love that I almost dislike James. If it weren't for the fact that Harry wouldn't exist I would hate him entirely. I realize this is unreasonable and I'm sure James wasn't such a tool as he grew up, but without more than secondhand knowledge it's hard to believe.
I can understand that for people who really like Snape liking James could be hard.
But even Rowling herself said that Snape did what he did purely because he loved Lily.
If Harry hadn't been Lily's son Snape would have remained as much of a death eater as lets say Bellatrix. Snape became a death eater after passing out of school even though he knew that Lily didn't like it. It was the fact that he blamed himself for her death that forced him to retrace his steps.
On the other we have James who defied the Dark Lord three time and spent his life saving others. He was immature and arrogant as a child. But he grew out of it. Dumbledore tells us that James was a brave and ggod man. He also mentions that James would have forgiven Pettigrew. It would take a man with immense strength to forgive the man who killed his family.
Lupin tells us that James thought it was the height of dishonour not to trust his friends.
To love people and to trust them came naturally to James. A virtue that saves Harry at the end of the day.
It seems to me that it is obvious that Lily would choose James.


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  #49  
Old July 28th, 2007, 3:45 am
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Re: James and Lily

After Snape called Lily a Mudblood and she chose to not be his friend anymore, James probably became closer to her and as they both grew up they fell in love. Without Snape in the way, James got along with Lily a lot better. I feel bad that Snape lost his friendship with Lily, but I'd rather have her and James any day.


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  #50  
Old July 28th, 2007, 4:54 am
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Re: James and Lily

JK should write a True Origins of Harry Potter, or something to answer thetse questions. Or a Adventures of the Marauders. We'd pay big bucks for it! At leats I would!!!


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  #51  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 9:14 pm
crowheart  Female.gif crowheart is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I definitely join a lot of others in saying that I wonder why James and Lily did eventually get together. I can't remember who actually says that James stopped hexing other people by the time he got together with Lily, but we're also told he continued to hex Snape, so he can't have changed all that much. I would really love to see what was going on from Lily's point of view, and I also hope it will be addressed in the Encylopedia.

However, I think that we got a very important clue as to why James and Lily got married from Molly Weasley, who was talking about how people were 'eloping left and right when Voldemort came the first time' (my paraphrase), as though they knew there might not be a tomorrow and they wanted to have something before they might die. I think it ties in with the other parallels to WWII, too...there were a lot of war marriages. Many of them weren't necessarily between the people who were most compatible, but the excitement and rush of the times makes it happen anyway sometimes.


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  #52  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 9:24 pm
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Re: James and Lily

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Originally Posted by crowheart View Post
I definitely join a lot of others in saying that I wonder why James and Lily did eventually get together.
My opinion only. (SO not canon) But, I like to think that Lily somehow found about James being an animagus and why he did so. (To be there for Lupin) and that is where the turning point may have started for her, like she saw that he really had a good heart and love for his friends and desire to help them. So, he risked the idea of being caught and worked hard all in the name of friendship. Kind of a noble thing to do, I like to think that it redeemed him a bit in Lily's eyes. Of course, I too am writing a Fan Fic on those days and that is how I explained Lily's turn around.

But I agree it would be neat if Jo did go back and write the Marauder years, but I think she shot the idea down as it is sooo Star Wars. So, I guess it is left up to each individual imagination, which makes these books so fun and why she left the Epilouge so vauge.


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  #53  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 9:37 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I am wondering why of all people, Snape was so insecure about James in particular regarding his relationship with Lily.

If you think about it, Lily Evans was quite popular. There must've a few guys interested in her, but the only one Snape cares about is James.

WAs it because he might've had the sixth sense and 'foresaw' something happening?


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  #54  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 9:39 pm
SMAC  Female.gif SMAC is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I agree with what someone (I dont remeber who) said on this thread. Harry had to mature really fast because of the circumstances in his life and James on the other hand who had a nice normal childhood and didnt have all tha problems Harry had when he was in Hogwarts was much more imature than Harry and thats why he acted like an arrogant jerk towards anybody who wasnt his friend. But he was also and extremly loyal and good friend I mean he became an illegal animagus just so he could help Remus out and that shows a compassion for others that Snape didnt have or at least that he didnt show.

I thinks that us just like harry are constantly told how great James was by Remus and Sirius and for that reason like Harry we all had this image of James that different from what we see in Snape's worst memory but I think that is clear that in the end james got over that phase and became I great wizard who fought for the order and died for his family. Lily in the end saw that James was really a brave man and thats why she choose him.



Last edited by SMAC; August 5th, 2007 at 2:23 am.
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  #55  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 9:57 pm
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Re: James and Lily

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Originally Posted by eternitygoddess View Post
WAs it because he might've had the sixth sense and 'foresaw' something happening?
No, but James was the most popualr boy in the year! And Lily was the most popular gal. It's like highschool cliche romance, everyone thinks that the populars are made for each other. When a popular guy is openly flirting, everyone gossips about it, and even Lily's friends might joke about her and James. And I think James' popularity and the gossips convinced Snape that sooner or later Lily would be snatched away...


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  #56  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 10:15 pm
crowheart  Female.gif crowheart is offline
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Re: James and Lily

You know, I don't know why, but I never considered that aspect before, raine_hp! You always see the stereotypical head cheerleader and quarterback pairing, and I wonder if that is in essence part of the Lily/James relationship, or at least the gossip that lead Severus to fear the eventual relationship. Seeker for the Quidditch Team is essentially like the Quarterback (for American football, for our UK friends), and I don't think there is an equivalent of cheerleaders, but she's certainly spoken of as 'best loved' by many.


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  #57  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 11:26 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I think James realized that he had to change his arrogant ways in order to win Lily (which occured during the 7th year). Lily was a straight-forward young lady and was not to be tolled with. I'm certain that she and James were very much in love. However, it is obvious why there isn't a scene in The Prince's Tale about James and Lily getting together. As you know, Lily went her way and told Snape to do the same. I'm sure that Snape and Lily never spoke to one another again after that point. Therefore, it explains the lack of a memory pertaining to James and Lily getting together. Also, at this point of the book, I don't think explaining how Lily and James got together would be pertinent to Harry and his mission.


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  #58  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 11:30 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I didn't think that was actually relevant information, so I didn't expect to see it. As such, I was by no means disappointed.


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  #59  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I also have the problem that I rather feel sympathy for Snape... I can't see why Lily would have chosen James; he sounds quite fun, but incredibly superficial.
Having heard so much about him from Severus's point of view I cannot help feeling a little hostile towards him. I can't blame Snape for not forgiving him: James, it seems, was mean to Snape because he was jealous of his friendship with Lily and he succeeded in destroying it, thus getting Snape's girl, and by the way humiliating him. (I do blame Snape for not forgiving Harry, though).

No, for all Jo tells us Severus seems to have had much deeper feelings for Lily than James. I'd like to have an explanation as to why Lily changed her mind about him, maybe there is a more noticable incident.

I hope Jo is going to come up with something in her encyclopedia


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  #60  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 11:38 pm
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Re: James and Lily

I think, in addition to the whole James growing up and Snape and Lily going their seperate ways thing, when Severus called her a mudblood, something snapped. When Snape was younger he always thought of Lily as an exception to his "mudblood" prejudices, and thought that she would accept it that way. However, Snape couldnt accept all muggle-borns, even for Lily's sake, and when he calls Lily one, she finally realizes this, and it is the last straw.


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