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  #1  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:37 pm
m0nkeydump  Male.gif m0nkeydump is offline
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James and Lily

I thought in this book it would be revealed to us how James and Lily came together. I was so eager to find out how Lily finally saw James in a new light and becoming friends then more. Was this talked about at all in the book or somewhere?


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  #2  
Old July 25th, 2007, 2:37 am
fang25 fang25 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I wanted more information about this as welL! It wasn't anywhere in the book so fanfiction will have to suffice. I was really bothered by the fact that it continued to show Snape and Lily's relationship but not James. It almost made it seem like Snape really deserved her and that is not how i feel. Maybe she'll write a prequal when she misses Sirius!


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Old July 25th, 2007, 2:56 am
beefsteak  Undisclosed.gif beefsteak is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I think it's obvious as to why Lily ultimately chose James over Snape. While we learn in DH that Snape really is a good man deep down, he obviously has some serious issues regarding his childhood, his attraction to evil, his obvious inability to forgive people i.e. James, and his penchant for holding resentment against others i.e. Harry. James on the other hand, was a very good man albeit arrogant and at times insensitive in his youth. That's something we see him grow out of as he matures, while Snape apparently just couldn't let things go.

I personally think that it was more important Snape's relationship with Lily was explored in DH so we finally get a clear picture as to why Snape made the decisions he did. I don't think it in anyway belittled James and Lily's relationship, but to me seemed to clarify even more so why they ended up together.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:35 am
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsteak View Post
I think it's obvious as to why Lily ultimately chose James over Snape. While we learn in DH that Snape really is a good man deep down, he obviously has some serious issues regarding his childhood, his attraction to evil, his obvious inability to forgive people i.e. James, and his penchant for holding resentment against others i.e. Harry. James on the other hand, was a very good man albeit arrogant and at times insensitive in his youth. That's something we see him grow out of as he matures, while Snape apparently just couldn't let things go.

I personally think that it was more important Snape's relationship with Lily was explored in DH so we finally get a clear picture as to why Snape made the decisions he did. I don't think it in anyway belittled James and Lily's relationship, but to me seemed to clarify even more so why they ended up together.
I agree completely, but I would like to add that Snape also called her a mudblood and that showed her how mean he could be.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:42 am
fireangel265  Female.gif fireangel265 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Yeah, I kind of expected a scene in "The Princes Tale" of Snape talking to Lily about her relationship with James. Kind of a "You're with him?" Kind of deal.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:49 am
elfears91  Undisclosed.gif elfears91 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I think James had the "I am a teenage boy and am arrogant insensitive obnoxious immature reckless attention-seeking and prideful disease" that most teenage boys get (of course some never grow out of it but thats a different story). I think James eventually realized if he wanted to get lily then he had to grow up a bit.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:52 am
_Viktor_Krum_  Female.gif _Viktor_Krum_ is offline
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Re: James and Lily

It was mentioned breifly in OotP that Lily fell for James in their 7th year, when James deflated his ego a bit, and stopped being a jerk to everyone he didn't really like. It wasn't included in this book, but you know that Lily really did love James.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:58 am
jkmonkey28  Female.gif jkmonkey28 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Yes I was curious about how they went from the scene in Snape's memory in OotP to being married, I know it's not crutial to the plot of the story but that doesn't mean I don't wonder. I would love more back story on Lily and James, how they got together, how the defied Voldemort three times, how James outgrew his arrogant phase. But I do agree that fanfiction will have to suffice, I still hold out hope that JKR will have pity on us and give us the answers we so crave.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 3:59 am
Moldywart  Undisclosed.gif Moldywart is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsteak View Post
I think it's obvious as to why Lily ultimately chose James over Snape. While we learn in DH that Snape really is a good man deep down, he obviously has some serious issues regarding his childhood, his attraction to evil, his obvious inability to forgive people i.e. James, and his penchant for holding resentment against others i.e. Harry. James on the other hand, was a very good man albeit arrogant and at times insensitive in his youth. That's something we see him grow out of as he matures, while Snape apparently just couldn't let things go.
Very good points. Plus, we already got that information when Harry asked Sirius in OotP. I was more interested in finding out what James and Lily did for a living, even though it is not crucial to the plot.


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  #10  
Old July 25th, 2007, 4:03 am
harry_cropper  Undisclosed.gif harry_cropper is offline
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Re: James and Lily

DId anyone else know prior to DH that Lily and James were only 21 when they died?? I found that surprising! They had only been together for about 4 years, were married, had a baby, defied Voldemort three times....busy people

Quote:
Very good points. Plus, we already got that information when Harry asked Sirius in OotP. I was more interested in finding out what James and Lily did for a living, even though it is not crucial to the plot.
JKR said in a interview that it was important to the plot what they did. And we didn't find out. (Interview: Scholastic.com, Feb 2000). ANother thing she said was important why Voldemort gave Lily so many chances do live and I"m still not clear on that one (was it because Snape asked?)



Last edited by harry_cropper; July 25th, 2007 at 4:08 am.
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  #11  
Old July 25th, 2007, 4:09 am
notsure08  Undisclosed.gif notsure08 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I think they just realised that they love each other and got together.


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  #12  
Old July 25th, 2007, 4:11 am
Radley  Female.gif Radley is offline
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Re: James and Lily

There is also the reference in a previous book (HBP?) when Petunia knows about dementors -- and blurts out that they guard Azkaban prison. This shocks Harry who wants to know how she knows about this part of the wizarding world and she says something like "that awful boy" told her. Harry (and we as readers) all assume that she means James, Harry's father. But from the scenes in the pensieve from Snape's memory -- it looks like Petunia found out about dementors from Snape who was trying to explain the wizarding world to Lily. This is another great example of JKR fitting everything together and still surprising us -- even with little details that you don't expect.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:15 am
SilverRose  Female.gif SilverRose is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
I think James had the "I am a teenage boy and am arrogant insensitive obnoxious immature reckless attention-seeking and prideful disease" that most teenage boys get (of course some never grow out of it but thats a different story). I think James eventually realized if he wanted to get lily then he had to grow up a bit.
I agree about James outgrowing a "phase" that some might just refer to as male adolesence but i think it's undermining to say that he only grew out of it because he wanted to get Lily; though I'm sure she played some part. Harry is forced into an early maturity because of all the pain and obstacles he faces. James on the other hand was a good man who also happened to have been free to indulge in a bit of idiocy in his school days. Considering how young they were when they died, the picture we get of him playing with Harry, and the fact that they had thrice defied Voldemort, we can deduce that James was still quite young by the time he matured a bit.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:20 am
mrsronweasley27  Female.gif mrsronweasley27 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

James had to have matured, definitely. I do think that Jo should have put a bit more in about James and Lily, but... I guess the fanfics will come, though.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:21 am
elfears91  Undisclosed.gif elfears91 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverRose View Post
I agree about James outgrowing a "phase" that some might just refer to as male adolesence but i think it's undermining to say that he only grew out of it because he wanted to get Lily; though I'm sure she played some part. Harry is forced into an early maturity because of all the pain and obstacles he faces. James on the other hand was a good man who also happened to have been free to indulge in a bit of idiocy in his school days. Considering how young they were when they died, the picture we get of him playing with Harry, and the fact that they had thrice defied Voldemort, we can deduce that James was still quite young by the time he matured a bit.
i didn't mean he only grew out of it to get the girl, i meant that he like most boys eventually mature (some faster than others..an on occasion not at all) and their actual personalities come out in public. In my school the guys are much more friendly when they don't feel the need to impress people and i think the same applied to james in the sense that he was a great person and friend who just got a little bit more than a little arrogant.....thats just me but my example is the guys in my grade who well all have the maturity level of a rock no offense to the rock


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Last edited by elfears91; July 25th, 2007 at 4:22 am. Reason: word forgotten
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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:26 am
Nimbus2000SP  Female.gif Nimbus2000SP is offline
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Re: James and Lily

i definitely wanted to know about this too! especially the way we see james through snape's memories and opinions. it really doesn't make me that fond of james and makes me question why lily would choose him. even as the series is over i don't know what made james so appealing. i guess james just had his ways.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:26 am
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Re: James and Lily

I feel that with no further explanation and with the new information about Snape it almost pits the reader to feel negatively about the Lily/James relationship. I mean, I know for myself, that I feel so heartbroken about Snapes unrequited love that I almost dislike James. If it weren't for the fact that Harry wouldn't exist I would hate him entirely. I realize this is unreasonable and I'm sure James wasn't such a tool as he grew up, but without more than secondhand knowledge it's hard to believe.


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  #18  
Old July 25th, 2007, 4:44 am
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Re: James and Lily

Quote:
Originally Posted by beefsteak View Post
I think it's obvious as to why Lily ultimately chose James over Snape. While we learn in DH that Snape really is a good man deep down, he obviously has some serious issues regarding his childhood, his attraction to evil, his obvious inability to forgive people i.e. James, and his penchant for holding resentment against others i.e. Harry. James on the other hand, was a very good man albeit arrogant and at times insensitive in his youth. That's something we see him grow out of as he matures, while Snape apparently just couldn't let things go.
I absolutely agree, though I didn't see it as Lily choosing James over Snape, per se. She made her choice about Snape before James ever became a factor.

James was arrogant, but he wasn't an evil person. He fought on the side of the Order from the start. He hated the concept of blood prejudice and defended Lily's honor. He favored pranks over Dark magic. He was willing to change for Lily, while it wasn't until Lily was in danger of Lord Voldemort that Snape was finally willing to do the same.

I would have liked to have seen more of James and Lily's relationship in DH, but I can understand why it really wasn't necessary. We know that James changed and that he and Lily loved each other dearly (the proof: one Harry James Potter). We got a little glimpse into their happy married life with Lily's letter to Sirius. And we know that even during the time Lily despised James, she was still able to see the good in him.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 5:00 am
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Re: James and Lily

I wish JK Rowling had given us a little more insight into James so that we would be able to see why everyone around him - Lily, Sirius, Remus, Hagrid, even Dumbledore - loved/liked him so much. At the same time, this wasn't as essential to the plot as getting to know what Snape and Lily were like in the past, so I can see why she didn't... And I think that the sheer facts that those people around him loved him so much, that James died protecting Lily and Harry and that Harry's patronus is a stag like his father's, are testaments to the fact that James grew into someone everyone, including Harry, can be proud of.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 5:04 am
Rhea7  Female.gif Rhea7 is offline
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Re: James and Lily

I think the major point shone in the Prince's Tale is that James was willing to change for Lily. Sev couldn't choose to be in Gryffindor for her, couldn't turn away from his evil friends for her, he couldn't even stop himself from being so prejiduced against a group she's in whether she likes it or not! But James, as it's been said, was a bit of an arrogant git for a while, but realised he had to grow up, he had to change for the woman he loves, and James as the one willing to do that, not Snape.


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