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Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 27th, 2007, 10:04 pm
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

Lily's relationship with Snape went back a longer time than most people realised. He was her first contact with the magical world. How did this impact on Lily and her relationship with the magical world and Hogwarts?

i'm not sure what impact it had on her opinion on the magical world. but it is easy to understand why she had a tight bond with snape. he was the first wizrd she ever met.

Could anything have been done by Lily or Petunia to repair their relationship given what we've seen of them as children?

i think so yes, i have a hard time believing something as simple as jealously could drive to sisters apart for a lifetime.

Based on the few things we know about Lily, what sort of friends did she have at Hogwarts.

based on what we learn of her perticularly from slughorn, she would have been well liked, and had many friends.

According to Lily her friends couldn't understand why she gave Snape the time of day ~ what does this say about her character and the friendships that she had with other people?

i think it means she was very nonjudgmental. she saw people for what they were and gave them a chance when other people wouldn't.

Lily chose not to forgive Snape for calling her "mudblood" - why was this the last straw for her? Do you think she would have reconsidered this decision had she lived?

i don't know, she came to his defense and he treated her like scum, she pretty much cummed up what she had ro say on that subject, and the fact that that was the last memory that we see of them together seems to answer the question.


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  #22  
Old August 2nd, 2007, 8:54 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

I see what you mean, Druid, but I will never see Lily as cold or anything like that.

Lily did like James a bit by SWM, even if she didn't realize it. That is why she did, at one point, almost smile at him. And this would seem like the ultimate betrayal to Severus (if he noticed it). However, at this point, Lily doesn't WANT to fall for James. She knows he is an arrogant bully, and she tells him off for it. She stood up for Severus (and was friends with him for five years before that AND "made excuses" to her friends) even though people did not understand why a pretty, popular girl like her would do that.

If Lily has any flaw, she's a bit naive. Lily has the instinct to do the right thing, stick up for her best friend and scold James, even though her being a teenage girl with a crush betrays her a bit. I think, maybe, she did not quite fully understand how crazy both James and Severus (and many other boys) were for her. She sees herself doing something good, and Severus insulting her for it when they've already been fighting recently. Maybe she doesn't understand that if she were in that situation, she might've said something nasty also. She's probably never been picked on like that.

I am not sure if Lily knew at all that Snape liked her. Either she knew but hated that he wouldn't admit it, or she was honestly waiting for an explanation as to why she should be different than the other muggleborns. When Severus is sputtering about how James likes her, she raises her eyebrows as though she's amused....Does that mean she knew why Snape was telling her that? It's possible. But I like to think she didn't, and Snape's tragedy was that he was always at a loss for words when the subject came up with her so he was unable to tell her. He could've even told her she was different because she was his best friend, and he could've said she mattered more to him than his Death Eater friends. But she made him too nervous, and I think it's quite possible she never realized her presense did that to him. Again, being as charming as she was, I'm not sure she understood his social awkwardness. From her POV, she was likely expecting him to say that he valued her in some way, but he couldn't, so to her that was like confirming that he had chosen his path as a Death Eater and no longer cared about her.

I absolutely adore Lily, and I think we are all supposed to believe she was a purely good person, seeing as her sacrifice and love are so important to the series. While my perception of her may be off a bit, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to view her in the most positive light possible. Therefore, I can't help but make "excuses" for her actions.


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  #23  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 1:37 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

1. Lily's relationship with Snape went back a longer time than most people realised. He was her first contact with the magical world. How did this impact on Lily and her relationship with the magical world and Hogwarts?

I think it had a tremendous impact on her as a muggleborn off on the adventure of a lifetime.

2. Could anything have been done by Lily or Petunia to repair their relationship given what we've seen of them as children?

Not really. Petunia was eaten up by jealousy. In truth, she was far more akin to Snape in terms of personality, cruelty and plain old meanness than Lily ever was.

3. Based on the few things we know about Lily, what sort of friends did she have at Hogwarts.

Well, we know they certainly weren't Slytherins - with the exception of her childhood friend, Snape. I'm guessing she drew her friends from Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, and Ravenclaw - as her son did many years later.

4. According to Lily her friends couldn't understand why she gave Snape the time of day ~ what does this say about her character and the friendships that she had with other people?

Primarily that she was very loyal to those she befriended.

5. Lily chose not to forgive Snape for calling her "mudblood" - why was this the last straw for her? Do you think she would have reconsidered this decision had she lived?

I think a vast chasm in terms of interests and intent had grown between Lily and Snape by the time of the mudblood incident. She had been telling him for some time, quite honestly, how she felt about the path he was following and he chose to continue it. When the word escaped his lips, after she had defended him against James and Sirius, she had had enough.

Do I think she would have reconsidered and forgiven Snape for what he said to her? Possibly. But it wouldn't have lasted any longer than the time it took for Harry, her son, to arrive at Hogwarts. If Lily had been alive to see the horrible manner in which Snape treated Harry, I don't think she would have stood for it.


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  #24  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:37 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

Druid One thing to remember is that Remus later said that the particular jinx that James was using was "in fashion" that year. He said there were months you couldn't walk a few feet without someone lifting you in the air by the ankle. So Lily probably saw people do that jinx to others all the time, not just James. Snape I think invented it, so he likely tried it out as well. So it wasn't like something one would get boiling angry about in general because it was done so often to people.

Lily may have gone around telling everyone to stop doing it. But I think Lily came to Snape's aid particularly because he was her friend and also because she liked James deep inside and didn't want to see him doing that to her friend. I think she was caught in a juxtaposition of friend v. guy I like. Of course after standing up for Snape, he turns around and calls her a mudblood and she was incensed.

Even then, she told James not to make Snape apologize to her for the comment because he was as bad as Snape in her eyes. She was pretty mad at them both by the end.



Last edited by wickedwickedboy; August 3rd, 2007 at 8:40 am.
  #25  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 8:44 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Lily may have gone around telling everyone to stop doing it. But I think Lily came to Snape's aid particularly because he was her friend and also because she liked James deep inside and didn't want to see him doing that to her friend. I think she was caught in a juxtaposition of friend v. guy I like. Of course after standing up for Snape, he turns around and calls her a mudblood and she was incensed.

Even then, she told James not to make Snape apologize to her for the comment because he was as bad as Snape in her eyes. She was pretty mad at them both by the end.
If Lily liked James at this point then that would be strongly dissapointing,hypocritical even.I got the impression that she also intervened becasue she was the prefect,it as kinda her responsibility,but her personal distress was because the target was her friend.


  #26  
Old August 3rd, 2007, 1:20 pm
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

[quote=hermy_weasley2;4629929]Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Lily Potter. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis



So now we know why Lily's Green eyes were so important! A lot of things have fallen into place and questions have been answered.....which means plenty for discussion!

Quote:
[*] Lily's relationship with Snape went back a longer time than most people realised. He was her first contact with the magical world. How did this impact on Lily and her relationship with the magical world and Hogwarts?
I think he introduced her to a world she didn't know was real before, helped her appreciate her gift. He (initally) eases her mind about certain things (being Muggle-born), while making her nervous about others (the Dementers)she teaches him about love. He basically helps her understand that there are others like them and that there's nothing to be ashamed of.

Quote:
Could anything have been done by Lily or Petunia to repair their relationship given what we've seen of them as children?
I really doubt it. While Petunia was jealous of Lily's friendship with Severus, she was more jealous of Lily's magic, something that she would never be able to experience. To the extent that Petunia harbored animosity to the magical world the rest of her life, the ball was in her court. Petunia chose to alienate Lily and extended that to Lily's son.
Quote:
Based on the few things we know about Lily, what sort of friends did she have at Hogwarts.
Apart from Severus, her friends seemed to be like her - studious, moral (in the sense of not using dark magic), friendly. She seemed to be more interested in strength of character than looks or popularity.
Quote:
According to Lily her friends couldn't understand why she gave Snape the time of day ~ what does this say about her character and the friendships that she had with other people?
It says that she was loyal to Severus and believed that there was something in him that friends couldn't or wouldn't see - or maybe that, whatever his mistakes, he was redeemable. She obviously was concerned that he was being seduced by the dark magic and being led astray and tried to warn him. Her friends probably dismissed Severus as a bad person because of his associations and dark magic, but they didn't have her history with him. Ultimately, she defended him until it was clear to her that he was too far gone.
Quote:
Lily chose not to forgive Snape for calling her "mudblood" - why was this the last straw for her? Do you think she would have reconsidered this decision had she lived?
The Mudblood comment was the straw the broke the camel's back probably a cumulative list of things he had done that gave her doubts about his character. It wasn't the comment itself, but that all of the things she wanted to believe about him were being shown for naive or wrong.


  #27  
Old August 4th, 2007, 4:17 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Ifink2much View Post
If Lily liked James at this point then that would be strongly dissapointing,hypocritical even.I got the impression that she also intervened becasue she was the prefect,it as kinda her responsibility,but her personal distress was because the target was her friend.
I don't see how it is hypocritical for her to intervene and tell James off at all. Yes, she liked James...but she may have been in denial. Either way, the fact that she likes him does not stop her from doing the right thing! It's not like she excused his actions just because she thought he was cute!


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  #28  
Old August 4th, 2007, 9:45 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lucretia View Post
I don't see how it is hypocritical for her to intervene and tell James off at all. Yes, she liked James...but she may have been in denial. Either way, the fact that she likes him does not stop her from doing the right thing! It's not like she excused his actions just because she thought he was cute!
I don't find her intervening hypocritical.But Lily comes across as a person who values kindness and believes in good treatement of all people.Yet she likes James,who at this point,posses little of these qualities.It's just my opnion.But like I said,we're not sure off her feelings at this point(time around SWM)


  #29  
Old August 4th, 2007, 11:03 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

1. Lily's relationship with Snape went back a longer time than most people realised. He was her first contact with the magical world. How did this impact on Lily and her relationship with the magical world and Hogwarts?

I think that he had prepared her to see it as a thing of wonder, even though her sister was upset about it, Severus showed her that he could see it was beautiful. He showed her enough of the wizarding world that she wouldn't be totally at a loss upon entering Hogwarts. I wouldn't be surprised if he helped her get her things, too.

2. Could anything have been done by Lily or Petunia to repair their relationship given what we've seen of them as children?


I think that Petunia would have had to have been happy-perhaps in a better marriage with a more caring individual. So much of her bad feelings for Lily come, I think, from the fact that Lily is popular and loved and she is not.

3. Based on the few things we know about Lily, what sort of friends did she have at Hogwarts.

I don't think we can really judge this well. I think she was the type of person who was friends with everyone, but really only /close/ friends with Severus. She was probably very popular in Gryffindor, which is why no one can understand her friendship with him.

4. According to Lily her friends couldn't understand why she gave Snape the time of day ~ what does this say about her character and the friendships that she had with other people?

I think, if it's really true, that it either shows a weakness in Lily (inability to explain to her friends the good things she sees in Severus) or perhaps a desire not to give the Gryffindors that hate him ammunition against him. If they knew the secrets of Severus' past, I think that they (especially James & co) would not have hesitated to use them against him and make it all a matter for public joke, which Snape could not have borne. But I think she should have put up a stronger defense, "I like him and that's that, and you need to understand that if you're going to be friends with me."

5. Lily chose not to forgive Snape for calling her "mudblood" - why was this the last straw for her? Do you think she would have reconsidered this decision had she lived?

It was the last straw because it struck the deepest. It struck, perhaps, to secret fears she had about how much Severus was changing. It said to her, "See, that's what he's really thought of me all along." Whether that is true or not, I think that's what Lily thought, especially when he was unable to give her question an answer. Do I think she would have forgiven him? I think given the kind of person we see her to be, she had perhaps forgiven him seventh year, but by that point he was likely avoiding her because she was accompanied by James so much....but after she saw him become a real Death Eater I think she would have stayed away, even if pangs of regret hit.


  #30  
Old August 5th, 2007, 2:02 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Ifink2much View Post
I don't find her intervening hypocritical.But Lily comes across as a person who values kindness and believes in good treatement of all people.Yet she likes James,who at this point,posses little of these qualities.It's just my opnion.But like I said,we're not sure off her feelings at this point(time around SWM)
That's why she wasn't willing to go out with him at this point. She couldn't control the fact that she liked him. She saw the good in him and was waiting for him to mature. If she didn't value kindness so much, wouldn't she have dated him while he was picking on Snape?


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  #31  
Old August 5th, 2007, 2:09 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

Well, she did date him while he was still picking on Snape. She just didn't know. We're told that James was still hexing Snape while they were dating, he just kept it quieter.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 2:49 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by crowheart View Post
Well, she did date him while he was still picking on Snape. She just didn't know. We're told that James was still hexing Snape while they were dating, he just kept it quieter.
We are also told that Snape "never missed a chance to hex James."


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  #33  
Old August 5th, 2007, 2:55 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

We're told by Lupin, who is hardly an unbiased observer. However, I suspect the decision to believe him or not will, for most people, boil down to what they believe of James Potter, and his character.

Personally, I think that was Lily's flaw as well as her strength-she always saw the good in people, but /only/ the good. It's why she failed to see the evil in Wormtail, and why I think she failed to see the negative qualities in James Potter. Remember, JKR does not write perfect characters, and I really don't think Lily Evans would be the only exception.


  #34  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:12 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Personally, I think that was Lily's flaw as well as her strength-she always saw the good in people, but /only/ the good. It's why she failed to see the evil in Wormtail, and why I think she failed to see the negative qualities in James Potter. Remember, JKR does not write perfect characters, and I really don't think Lily Evans would be the only exception.
True, but James trusted Wormtail too, and Lupin criticised Harry for being too trusting, just like his father. Lupin knew Lily, he obviously thought that in the end James had been the more blinded of the two, when placing trust in people.


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  #35  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:18 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

If she only saw the good in people, she would've been a little more understanding of Snape's mudblood comment! It wasn't nice, sure, but he was having a pretty bad day, don't you think? But my point is she was able to see the bad in him even when he was apologizing and threatening to sleep outside her dorm until she listened.

Lily should have realized Severus was a very insecure person and needed her reassurance, or he probably wouldn't have made such bad choices.

But I honestly think she's one of the least flawed characters we've seen in the whole series. And that's why I like her so much.


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  #36  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:32 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lucretia View Post
If she only saw the good in people, she would've been a little more understanding of Snape's mudblood comment! It wasn't nice, sure, but he was having a pretty bad day, don't you think? But my point is she was able to see the bad in him even when he was apologizing and threatening to sleep outside her dorm until she listened.
But I think Lily could only put up with so much. She had been trying to remain friends with Snape for 5 years with every single thing working against them, and by him calling her a mudblood in front of a bunch of people was just showing that maybe he didn't care about their friendship as much as she did. I admit she could have accepted his apology, but Mudblood is a foul offense to the Wizarding World, and I think Lily was just fed up with trying, when it seemed all Snape wanted were the Dark Arts. Which is true, because he thought becoming a Death Eater would impress Lily.

Quote:
Lily should have realized Severus was a very insecure person and needed her reassurance, or he probably wouldn't have made such bad choices.

But I honestly think she's one of the least flawed characters we've seen in the whole series. And that's why I like her so much.
Agreed.


  #37  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:37 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Lucretia View Post
If she only saw the good in people, she would've been a little more understanding of Snape's mudblood comment! It wasn't nice, sure, but he was having a pretty bad day, don't you think?
Why should she have forgiven him? It would be like having a friend who you considered to be non - racist and then have them use a vulgar, racist slur against you. I mean Lily was standing up for him, and he completely humiliated her. I wouldn’t forgive, but then I ain't nice when I'm crossed.

The friendship was shown to be on rocky ground anyway: as a result of Snape and his DE friends and interest in the dark arts. In the end Snape destroyed that friendship because he was young, immature and made bad choices.


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  #38  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:49 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

I completely understand the mudblood comment was the final straw for Lily. They'd been having problems in their relationship for a while anyway. And a lot of people would've acted the way Lily did. As I said, Lily has no major flaws, but she wasn't perfect enough to put up with her best friend being interested in joining a group that wanted to kill her. I totally get that.

So no worries, I'm not blaming Lily for it! Snape is just as responsible for what went wrong. I was just giving an example of something not one hundred percent perfect that she did...


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  #39  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:57 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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I completely understand the mudblood comment was the final straw for Lily. They'd been having problems in their relationship for a while anyway. And a lot of people would've acted the way Lily did. As I said, Lily has no major flaws, but she wasn't perfect enough to put up with her best friend being interested in joining a group that wanted to kill her. I totally get that.

So no worries, I'm not blaming Lily for it! Snape is just as responsible for what went wrong. I was just giving an example of something not one hundred percent perfect that she did...
In fairness Lily is presented as pretty bloody perfect. Perhaps it was because Harry never met any of the people that might have not liked her, and the fact that we never really got to know her as a character, but were only told about her. If anything I'd say the only flaw she appeared to have was that she was too forgiving (to Petunia, Snape, James)


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  #40  
Old August 5th, 2007, 3:59 am
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Re: Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

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In fairness Lily is presented as pretty bloody perfect. Perhaps it was because Harry never met any of the people that might have not liked her, and the fact that we never really got to know her as a character, but were only told about her. If anything I'd say the only flaw she appeared to have was that she was too forgiving (to Petunia, Snape, James)
Who might not have liked her besides Death Eaters? There might've been a few girls besides Petunia who envied her for being "perfect"...and she would've been equally nice to them...


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