Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Beyond the Veil



 
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 2:31 pm
HemHem HemHem is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5904 days
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post)
Could the Death Chamber be used in funeral ceremonies? After all, we don't know about funeral practices in the wizarding world -- perhaps after a witch or wizard dies their body goes to the Death Chamber for a journey through the veil?

Is that what Luna meant by "seeing" her mother again?
That's a very interesting idea! The only drawback though is that the Death Chamber seems to be a secert thing being located in the Dept of Mysteries and all but still...an interesting idea!


Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 2:53 pm
lupinfan lupinfan is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5979 days
Location: Kent, England
Age: 45
Posts: 21
One of my questions was "What's the point of having a Death Chamber?" It could be something the Department of Mysteries are researching? Maybe as a means of talking to people who are dead. Or it could be a long lost capital punishment tool. Seems more likely as there was banked seeting. The courts usually seem to be round like amphitheatres though, rather than oblong like this one. Mmmm. I think Harry will go back there too, like Loz.

I think falling through the arch is what killed Sirius rather than Bellatrix's curse, which incidently was a flash of red light, rather than purple which is what knocked out Hermione - fell free to correct - it's just from memory.

I'm with Rotsie - I thought it was like Thestrals too - Luna and Harry could hear voices, but not Hermione or Ron.


__________________
I'm too old for this.....
  #23  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 3:22 pm
EmilyRose  Female.gif EmilyRose is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5949 days
Location: San Antonio
Age: 35
Posts: 363
I believe it's a way to find out information from people who did not become ghosts when they died.

The Department of Mysteries could use a way to get information from dead people, or to find help. It would be more useful than Dumbledore's portraits, even.

I believe we'll be back in that room eventually. Harry will ask about it, and then be determined to go there and speak to Sirius.

They study time, obviously. Why not death?


  #24  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 3:27 pm
dog star's Avatar
dog star  Female.gif dog star is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6097 days
Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally posted by EmilyRose (original post)

I believe we'll be back in that room eventually. Harry will ask about it, and then be determined to go there and speak to Sirius.

They study time, obviously. Why not death?
I agree. I think the Death Chamber is the room we'll definitely revisit, perhaps on more than one occasion. Sirius will be back in some form, some way, some how.


__________________
"Are you incapable of restraining yourself or do you take pride in being an insufferable know-it-all?"

P.O.T.I.O.N.S. - S.N.A.P.E.
Proud Member of the SSAS
  #25  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 3:29 pm
MadMagic's Avatar
MadMagic  Female.gif MadMagic is offline
Twilight Princess
 
Joined: 6102 days
Location: in the sky with diamonds
Age: 35
Posts: 3,075
I was also very confused about the fate of Sirius. Falling through the veil seems like such an unfinished way to die. We didn't actually see him die, he just disappeared. I hope we see him again in some way. He was one of my favorite characters.

Also I was reading that part after 30 some hours with no sleep so I could have missed stuff. But I thought that Harry and them had looked behind the veil, but I guess that wasn't right. They had just seen behind it.


__________________
Into these twisted months I plunge without a light to follow
but I swear that I would follow anything,
just get me out of here.


  #26  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 3:39 pm
wolfie  Female.gif wolfie is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5988 days
Location: USA
Age: 34
Posts: 143
"And anyway, it's not as though I'll never see Mum again, is it?"
"Er - isn't it"? Said Harry uncertainly.
She shook her head in disbelief. "Oh, come on. You heard them, just behind the veil, didn't you?"
"You mean..."
"In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, that's all. You heard them."
~Pg 863 American edition

What Luna is saying is that Harry will meet Sirius again when he dies. I found that so touching! All his loved ones will be waiting for him when he goes to the 'other side.' *sniffle* (and on a sidenote, how can psycho Christians hate these books? Isn't that a very Christian idea, that you will meet up with your loved ones when you die?)


  #27  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 3:50 pm
Phoenix_Fawkes  Male.gif Phoenix_Fawkes is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 6061 days
Location: California
Age: 31
Posts: 630
I was thinking that it was like a gate way or something like many of you had said! Heres what Luna said to Harry at the end
Quote:
She shook her head in disbelief. "Oh come on. You heard them, just behind the veil, didn't you?
"You mean...."
"In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, thats all. You heard them."
They looked at each other. Luna was smiling slightly. Harry did not know what to say, or to think. Luna believed so many extrodinary things.... yet he had been sure he had heard voices behind the veil too.....
Thats probably the most info we get on the Archway and the veil.
I think Headless Nick might have told harry something thought.
Yep hears what nick said.
Quote:
"I know nothing of the secrets of death, Harry, for I chose my feeble imitation of life instead. I beileve learned wizards study the matter in the department on mysteries---"
"dont talk to me about that place!" Said Harry fiercely.
So harry did learn about death in a new way in many diffrent waus well kinda. LOL:clappy:


  #28  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:34 pm
Thayet's Avatar
Thayet  Female.gif Thayet is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6228 days
Location: North Norfolk
Age: 31
Posts: 1,041
I'm not entirely sure about the function of the veil, or if it is indeed death. As it is the department of mysteries, it is somewhat a mystery, and not only that, the department of mysteries seem to create things, and try to discover things - so what if they hadn't finished experiments upon the veil, and sirius comes out of it one day? Trapped...


__________________
Lorna supports the Kings Lynn Money Centre Stars.
Speedway - even better than Harry Potter.

Petition to be Allowed a Picture of The Sport My Dad Loved on his Churchyard Memorial (Speedway) - Signatures Appreciated
  #29  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:42 pm
Cat  Female.gif Cat is offline
Prefect Emeritus
 
Joined: 6229 days
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 34
Posts: 4,680
I think, for the purposes of descriptive writing, the Veil itself was a metaphor for death. Have you ever heard the saying 'They're not gone, they're just in anothe room' used when somebody dies? The idea is that they're in a place that you can't get to, but still there and still near. Just behind the black Veil. You can't meet them, but you know that they're there.


  #30  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:42 pm
Leda  Female.gif Leda is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 6058 days
Location: doing a cloggdance on a tulip
Posts: 52
I agree with dumbledore2905, because of what Nick said, it's obviously some researchroom for the Mystery department where thy try to figure out what comes "after death".
Also, am I tho only one who's certain that we won't see Sirius anymore? I know a lot of people must be hoping for it, but come on, JK wouldn't be so upset if it was just a "temporarily" death. And she said herself: "He was gone, and that was it".


  #31  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:45 pm
~BrandyTook~ ~BrandyTook~ is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5913 days
Location: Ontario, Canada!
Age: 31
Posts: 97
The veil did seem like a very sudden and imcomplete way of dying. He wasn't killed by the curse because he look shocked, not dead. He fell though the veil. I tall seems so incomplete in my mind, which makes it more sad. It just so sudden and unexpected. One minute he's taunted, the next he fallen though the veil, and is never coming back. As for the veil, I like the theory of the Death Chamber being used as the sort of death penalty. Not that it's a pleasant thought of course. It's the theory that would make the most sense.


  #32  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:50 pm
Harry_Potter Harry_Potter is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 6076 days
Age: 34
Posts: 141
I am very confused at the concept of the veil, the archway, and a dais. Sirius is not coming back, that would be too easy for Harry. Why couldn't have Hagrid died. In the 5th book he really peaked with his annoyingness in my mind.


  #33  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:53 pm
Divi's Avatar
Divi  Female.gif Divi is offline
Prefect Emeritus
 
Joined: 6239 days
Location: The depths of my own insanity
Posts: 507
The veiled doorway was one of the things that I was most curious about after having read the book. Harry heard whispers behind it, but who do you suppose was whispering? Can you only hear people that died in your presence, or is it some sort of window to every dead person’s soul? I have a few theories and questions-

My guess is that you can hear more than just the person that you witnessed die, but you have to have witnessed a death to hear the voices. We know that only Luna and Harry could hear the voices beyond the veil, so since Ron and Hermione could not hear the voices, nor could they see the Thestrils, I think you must have experienced a death to hear the voices.

Once you can hear the voices, the question becomes “whose voice can you hear?” I think it’s more than the specific person you saw die. Luna only experienced one death, her mother’s, yet she agreed with Harry that she could hear people whispering beyond the veil. How many people can there be beyond that veiled entrance?

Another question I had about it was whether you could pass through that doorway. Is it unsafe to go through, or is it possible for living people to walk through it? Sirius fell behind it after he died. Would it be possible for people to go behind there to retrieve the body? Nobody did, nobody checked his body to see if he was alive or for any reason, so I wonder about whether people can pass through that veil or not. I do think that Sirius is dead though. JK said when she was talking about how painful it was to write the book that she re-wrote the scene, and then "he was definitely dead".

Later on, near the end of the book, Luna hinted that she might be able to hear her mother again because of the veiled platform. What did she mean by this? Are there times when people can approach the doorway to speak to the deceased? Or was she speaking vaguely, suggesting that her mother’s voice will always be with her? The use of this veiled doorway seems very mysterious to me. Could Harry use it some time in the future, or is it kept for certain uses only?

The last thing that I wondered about was what the doorway was doing there in the first place. Harry thought that the room it was in was the same room that he was questioned in during his suspension trial. This means that the doorway must have been brought in for a certain purpose for the ministry to use at a different time. What was the doorway doing there? Were people from the ministry questioning the dead? What information or purpose did they want it for?

These questions all seem very open-ended, and I’m guessing that we might find out the uses of this doorway in one of the next two books. I don’t think it would have been there if it were never going to be referred to again, because it seems to have a purpose in the book that we just don’t understand yet.


  #34  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:55 pm
Cat  Female.gif Cat is offline
Prefect Emeritus
 
Joined: 6229 days
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 34
Posts: 4,680
Quote:
Originally posted by Harry_Potter (original post)
I am very confused at the concept of the veil, the archway, and a dais. Sirius is not coming back, that would be too easy for Harry. Why couldn't have Hagrid died. In the 5th book he really peaked with his annoyingness in my mind.
Annoyingnes? He was tending to his rescued brother! He obviously loved his brother to pieces, even if he was being ripped tp pieces in the process. I think it paid off. I also think it made Hagrid even more lovable.


  #35  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 5:56 pm
dog star's Avatar
dog star  Female.gif dog star is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6097 days
Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
Posts: 1,203
I'm not saying his death will be temporary...I'm saying we'll see him again sometime, somehow. There's a difference. Seeing Sirius doesn't mean he's alive.


__________________
"Are you incapable of restraining yourself or do you take pride in being an insufferable know-it-all?"

P.O.T.I.O.N.S. - S.N.A.P.E.
Proud Member of the SSAS
  #36  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 6:03 pm
Fleur's Avatar
Fleur  Female.gif Fleur is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 6230 days
Location: The Black Hole of Savile Row
Posts: 814
The veil intrigued and disturbed me. I am a very curious person, and just to see Sirius dissapear was shocking, becuase I wanted Harry to open the veil to see who was talking. Does the MoM even know what's going on behind that veil? Hopefully in book six we get to talk to a member of the Department of Mysteries that knows and explains what the veil is.


  #37  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 6:15 pm
DocHollidaywe's Avatar
DocHollidaywe  Male.gif DocHollidaywe is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 6119 days
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 32
Posts: 794
I think that the Veil is the other side, and you can hear voices if you have someone on the other side (somone that was close to you, or someone like your parents) Harry could hear voices, perhaps it was his parents ... Luna hear voices ... Her mum. However the rest did not hear any voices.

Another explanation, you can only hear the voices of the person if you saw them die.


__________________
You probably looked at my profile picture and said "Dueling Club at CoS Forums??
________________________________
Not any more, but that's how old I am, I remember the Dueling Club here at CoS forums.

Check out my podcast: www.myspace.com/threewisemenshow
or go to itunes and search for "three wise men"
  #38  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 6:50 pm
Thayet's Avatar
Thayet  Female.gif Thayet is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6228 days
Location: North Norfolk
Age: 31
Posts: 1,041
Quote from Divi:

"The last thing that I wondered about was what the doorway was doing there in the first place. Harry thought that the room it was in was the same room that he was questioned in during his suspension trial. This means that the doorway must have been brought in for a certain purpose for the ministry to use at a different time. What was the doorway doing there? Were people from the ministry questioning the dead? What information or purpose did they want it for? "

Used by the ministry for questioning the dead - this seems an excellent theory. That could most probably be along the lines of the truth. I don't see why it couldn't be true, as it seems the sort of procedure that could happen, beyond it is the souls of the death in the after life, type thing, a sort of gateway that may be penetrated but not crossed.

Or am I just saying this because I refuse to believe Sirius is gone completely?


__________________
Lorna supports the Kings Lynn Money Centre Stars.
Speedway - even better than Harry Potter.

Petition to be Allowed a Picture of The Sport My Dad Loved on his Churchyard Memorial (Speedway) - Signatures Appreciated
  #39  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 7:09 pm
jaedi  Female.gif jaedi is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5919 days
Location: In a galaxy far, far away
Posts: 123
When I read the veil part, I was realy confused because there was no real explaination for what it really was that I can remember (well... I DID read it at 3 in the morning...)
I think that the way Sirius died was very non-dramatical. He didn't give a dying speech, he didn't scream in agony, he just... died. It made me feel the same way Harry did, I was in denial for about 10 minutes.


  #40  
Old June 23rd, 2003, 7:12 pm
daniel4hp's Avatar
daniel4hp  Male.gif daniel4hp is offline
Professor Emeritus
 
Joined: 6228 days
Location: Los Estados Unidos
Posts: 3,316
Well, my first thought was that it was a form of execution. I don't know if the Wizarding World has the death penalty, but even if they don't, they very likely once did, and I don't see it as totally impossible that they wanted to carry executions out in the Department of Mysteries. The prizoner would be forced to walk through the archway, which would transport them to the afterlife.

However, I am no longer convinced of this, although I'm not sure what the purpose of the veil is. It would help to know if Sirius was dead prior to passing through the archway, or if the archway killed him, but we don't know. I'm inclined to say that it was passing through the veil that lead to his death, but we don't really know.

It would be nice to know the purpose of this, though...


__________________
Hola.

(Feel free to take my location as a political statement.)
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:12 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.