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Return of Sirius Black?



 
 
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  #1421  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:00 am
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MadamPudi,

Ha ha ha the Brothers Grim. And I guess that JKR could have been playing on word sounds with serious and Sirius (but Sirius is the Dog Star as well).


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  #1422  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:06 am
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Sorry this isn't really a double post, just a belated thought. They live in Grimmauld place (Grim old place).


  #1423  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:20 am
Mesmirez  Female.gif Mesmirez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm
Sorry this isn't really a double post, just a belated thought. They live in Grimmauld place (Grim old place).
I never noticed that, strangely enough O.o

Another thought: After reading up on all Sirius' different names I have come to a conclusion that everybody withen a ten mile radius of him is lucky not to drop dead. He's a walking death omen. The names Padfoot, Sirius, Snuffles* of course the Grim and the last name "Black" all have some sort of connection to death.

*To "Snuff it" is to die


  #1424  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:22 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesmirez
I never noticed that, strangely enough O.o

Another thought: After reading up on all Sirius' different names I have come to a conclusion that everybody withen a ten mile radius of him is lucky not to drop dead. He's a walking death omen. The names Padfoot, Sirius, Snuffles* of course the Grim and the last name "Black" all have some sort of connection to death.

*To "Snuff it" is to die
Oh, but looking at it your way makes me think that Sirius is dead and I am still in serious (Sirius) denial.


  #1425  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:31 am
Mesmirez  Female.gif Mesmirez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm
Oh, but looking at it your way makes me think that Sirius is dead and I am still in serious (Sirius) denial.
So am I.
I think being such a death magnet automatically makes him less likely to die. It's just my strange way of thinking, I guess -Shrugs-


  #1426  
Old July 1st, 2004, 12:35 am
flipfloputz  Female.gif flipfloputz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesmirez
I never noticed that, strangely enough O.o

Another thought: After reading up on all Sirius' different names I have come to a conclusion that everybody withen a ten mile radius of him is lucky not to drop dead. He's a walking death omen. The names Padfoot, Sirius, Snuffles* of course the Grim and the last name "Black" all have some sort of connection to death.

*To "Snuff it" is to die

I agree with a lot of people about that theory, it makes sense, but i'm in 'Sirius' denial! lol, sorry, I had to use that. It was too funny.


  #1427  
Old July 1st, 2004, 1:17 am
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Ok, watch me dive off the deep end on this one and tie together two incongruous threads. Sorry if it goes a little off topic, since it is also right on target. Here goes.

Snape is the product of a marriage or affair with Lily Evans' mother (I lean toward failed marriage since this is a children's book--of course the animosity works better is he is a love child). Black is every bit as nasty as his lovely future wife Mrs. Black so divorce was a good idea for Lily's mother. Snape was abandoned by Black so he was raised with his half-sister Lily and Lily's mother's second husband Mr. Evans (i.e Lily's father). Snape takes the name of name of Perseus Evans since he is raised in the Evans household. Do we know if he is the same age as Sirius because this works better is he is one year older? I guess it would work if Mr. Black immediately runs out on Lily's mother after knocking her up. Perseus (Snape) has a son Mark Evans. All of this has been kept a secret because of Snape's DE status. Only DD knows and somehow (a fidelis charm maybe?) no one else knows (except perhaps the brothers Grim). And maybe Harry was sent to Petunia's since she is a full aunt and Perseus is only a half-uncle (so the blood magic is stronger).

Now why keep it a secret, because Godric Gryffindor is the HBP and Lily and her mother are heirs (it can be through the muggle side). We know she is an heir because of her striking green eyes (and Harry's) that are identical to Gryffindor's (they can find some picture with the green eyes). Even Mark Evans can have the same green eyes--only Snivellous doesn't since he is dark like his father. And GG heirs are a real threat to LV. Also GG could have been a champion of muggleborn wizards since he was half and half.

In the other thread I go on a bit about how GG heirs are a threat (the sword and a bunch of other stuff--I even make James a GG heir on the wizard side since they lived in Godric's Hollow, so that makes Harry a double GG heir), but it isn't needed to tie up this thread.

But as I said in the other thread, we knew that the prophecy was about Harry, but we didn't know why.

Well, I am treading water in the deep end here. And if anyone thought that Snape is Sirius's half brother was contorted try my addition on for size.

EDIT: Upon reading this I noticed I used the Americanism "knocking her up". Which, of course, means getting her pregnant. But the British meaning of "to knock up" is to knock on the door. Just wanted to clarify that I meant impregnate.



Last edited by ComicBookWorm; July 1st, 2004 at 1:31 am.
  #1428  
Old July 1st, 2004, 2:34 am
Liv4Sirius  Female.gif Liv4Sirius is offline
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On JKs site, it says the mirror he gave harry has a big impact in the next 2 books


  #1429  
Old July 1st, 2004, 2:51 am
theotherlisa  Female.gif theotherlisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aelurus13
How can it be the end? Lupin is a good guy, but Sirius is something different! Harry needs Sirius not for only emotional support but the father figure. Harry has had to deal with so much c*rp already, why this to? However I suspect Harry will need both to fully understand somethings. Lupin may have to take over the father-figure, if Sirius is truly gone. Which is very sad!!! :'(
My impression is that Lupin was always the father figure since he'd met Harry. Sirius is like the really cool uncle that will let you get away with anything. More your friend than anything else.

I don't think Sirius will be back. I was shocked by his death but not as saddened as most people. That's not saying that I wanted him to die but it was quite surprising. It's sad in the fact that Harry lost the person that was his connection to his parents regardless of Lupin, etc. also knowing James and Lily.


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  #1430  
Old July 1st, 2004, 6:43 am
ninakix  Female.gif ninakix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacks Beauty
Ok -- sorry to go offline a little bit, because this is all really good, but I have been doing my own little analysis of the mirror quote, and I wanted to get it down before I forget it.
That means it either a) Harry wouldn't have reached Sirius, or b) it wouldn't have stopped the battle at the DoM anyway.
If we take the first option, why wouldn't it have reached Sirius?
1 - He didn't have it with him, so Harry's call would have been useless.
a) Sirius could have just forgotten it, but that seems lame and doesn't fit to me with the idea that it will be "more help than you think."
b) It was lost (but where?)
c) it was stolen (which I'll get to later.)
2 - He had it, but he couldn't use it, so Harry's call would be useless.
a)He had been abducted, and the vision Harry had was real.
3 - Someone else had it, and Harry's call would have gone to someone else and been useless.
a) It could have been stolen -- most likely a DE, because a friendly person would have helped Harry, not made the call useless
b) Maybe it never even came from Sirius in the first place but from an imposter. (I wish I could remember more about when Harry got the mirror -- I loaned out my OotP)
If a DE thief or imposter has it, they wouldn't have answered Harry's call anyway, so he would have gone to the DoM.
I think those are all decent reasons he couldn't have reached Sirius. But what if the reason it wouldn't have been useful is because if Harry had used it, it wouldn't have stopped the battle anyway?
1 - He wouldn't have reached anyone, so he would have gone anyway.
2 - He would have discovered Sirius in Voldemort's custody and gone anyway.
3 - He would have reached a someone else in possession of the mirror who would have tricked him into going anyway.
All in all, most of those ideas (with the exceptions in 1) lead to the possibility that Sirius is still alive, or at least was not the one to go through the veil. Are there any other reasons that it wouldn't be useful that I haven't thought of??

What could make it useful?
1) Harry finds it and uses it to communicate with someone like Lupin (ho hum). But better, if it's found in some odd location where we wouldn't expect it to be -- Snape's office? Kreacher's cupboard? Someplace we don't know about? -- and it is a clue to some bigger puzzle (what's behind the veil, whether Sirius has stayed in #12 as he was supposed to, whether someone is in #12 that shouldn't be...)
2) Harry finds a way to use it and discovers that Sirius is in trouble.
3) If someone else had it, I'm not sure how the mirror in and of itself could be useful -- it could have gone through the veil. Still thinking on that...
Are there other ways that the mirror could be "more helpful than we think"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninakix
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadamPudi
Hmmm...... The mirror wouldn't have helped much because
A) Sirius didn't have it with him that day
B) Someone else took it and hid it (Kreacher)
C) It wasn't Sirius who fell so they didn't know about the mirror
This seems reasonable. In all three of these scenarios, it would not have helped get in contact with Sirius. It's also safe to assume that a member of the Order didn't have it - because then they could have checked up on Sirius. So now we know what would have to have happened for the mirror not to be useful.

Now, following that. Ways the mirror COULD be useful in the future.
1) It went through the veil, and the veil did not kill "Sirius". Basically, the mirror, in its alternate location through the veil would still facilitate communication. The person whom its communicating with is or is not Sirius.
2) It did not go through the veil, and is lying somewhere in Grimmauld Place. Harry could find a new "mirror partner."
3) It did not go through the veil, and someone of relative importance has it. This is essentially the same as option 2, just Harry doesn't get to pick his "mirror partner."
4) It did not go through the veil, the real Sirius has it and he did not go through the veil. The mirror would be useful because we would find out about the true Sirius.
Something else we left out: Dumbledore found out about it, and took it away from him, because he didn't want Sirius running prematurely and dangerously out of the house. This implies that Sirius would not have told anyone about the mirror, for fear it be reported to DD.

Let's see... If we take it a step further, and try to figure out viable combinations. Here:
1) It went through the veil, and the veil did not kill "Sirius". Basically, the mirror, in its alternate location through the veil would still facilitate communication. The person whom its communicating with is or is not Sirius.
THEN a) Sirius could have been temporary away from it, or "didn't have it with him". "Lost it" "Stolen" Etc, BUT it would have had to go through the veil, so he would have had to recovered it by the time he went to the DoM.
Probability of this? Low. We can safely assume that the mirror did not go through the veil. Agreed?
This already tells us a lot. That leaves us with one of three things:

1. The mirror is in someone else's hands. (a) A theif, (b) a borrower, (c) someone who found it. (d) The "imposter of Sirius", who left it lying around somewhere (or gave it to another DE) when he found it on Sirius's person or, alternatively, was carrying it and you'll be able to contact him through the mirror. It may not have helped because the imposter would have encouraged the theory - or not answered at all.
2. The mirror is lost, and unfound.
3. Sirius is abducted, the mirror is in his hands but he cannot use it.

Well then. I'm willing to bet that Sirius did not lend the mirror to anyone. Borrower (1b) is the off the list.
Second, I'm willing to bet he did not loose it either. Why? Because it was supposed to be an emergency communication tool. This is much like, say, loosing a cell phone while you know your child is off in some miserably unsafe place - especially if you're just sitting at home. He's likely to be carrying it with him all the time, and also not likely to loose it. These are unlikely, as well. On the same basis that he didn't have it one minute and then got it before he let to the DoM (as mentioned above). What would be the point of giving Harry the mirror if he's not going to be able to use it? (1c) and (2) are off the list. It also means he's unlikely to have it stolen also, unless you have a very, very clever theif who both knows of it (unlikely because of the threat of DD reporting it) and has the ability to steal it without Sirius' knowledge. Possibly Kreacher, but also extremely unlikely that Sirius bothered telling him. I imagine Sirius is carrying it on his person all the time so no one finds out about it. (1a) is off the list.

And, in my probably extremely biased reasoning, this leaves the most likely options being (3) or (1d), and Sirius is abducted: sitting in a DE hide out somewhere shivering from the cold; already had his soul sucked out by a dementor; killed by a DE; driven mad by the cruciatus curse; or most likely (unless the DE is Peter, but still likely) stashed somewhere in Grimmauld Place... My bet's on Buckbeak, actually.

Anyone else see holes in that logic? I'm sure it's there, help me out. Cause I've basically, otherwise, told you where he is and which theory is correct.


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Last edited by ninakix; July 1st, 2004 at 6:46 am.
  #1431  
Old July 1st, 2004, 6:59 am
ninakix  Female.gif ninakix is offline
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other thoughts i stupidly left out (sorry, doublepost, i know, but i had a lapse... plus... that posts' long enough) is about the possibility of a sirius - regulus switch. ahhh. this might be a possibility as well, but doubtful. sirius probably didn't give the mirror to regulus... but that would be why the mirror didnt respond to "sirius black" - because regulus was sirius and sirius was regulus and regulus as sirius had the mirror. the mirror would have responded as "regulus black", possibly. it would be helpful in keeping touch with the real sirius.


but, madampudi, on your theory, i just have one question. if it's not likely that JKR had love affairs in there, because this is not a daytime soap, nor is it jerry springer, then, wouldn't harry have noticed the blasted out bit on the family tree next to mr. black? it would have been especially noticable because the current mrs. black would have to be added in a not-normal place.


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  #1432  
Old July 1st, 2004, 7:16 am
MafaldaWeasley  Male.gif MafaldaWeasley is offline
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I remember someone saying (concerning another series of books) that nobody is ever "really" dead in a story, meaning, there might be ways for that character to remain in the plot and interract with the other characters.

I have a feeling we will see some kind of dark magic (a spell, object or otherwise) introduced... see, I have this theory (I always have a theory) that we will see the Mirror if Erised again... if Harry could see his parents and family (whom he had never seen before, but they were all there in the mirror) then, maybe this will be a way for him to see Sirius again. If he ever "reappears" in the future books. Also, Tom Riddle came back in CoS, right? Why couldn't Sirius come back in some way? Not like before but in a different form... like a totem? A big Black dog totem? I'd buy that!

And... someone mentioned Tonks (love Tonks, she ROCKS!!) well, Grimauld place has to belong to somebody, so since she's a Black... it would give everyone a place to travel to, OotP could still meet there, and it's filled with creepy, dark magic-ish things... It's a virtual potpourri of scarriness, humor and screwed up plot development! I vote that Tonks gets the house!!! T hen we all can go & destroy the Dursleys and Harry can have a "happier" place to live. (sorry for the off-topicness of this last part. Just having some fun).


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  #1433  
Old July 1st, 2004, 9:01 am
Slim_Moody  Male.gif Slim_Moody is offline
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  #1434  
Old July 1st, 2004, 10:08 am
Trinny  Female.gif Trinny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm
Now why keep it a secret, because Godric Gryffindor is the HBP and Lily and her mother are heirs (it can be through the muggle side). We know she is an heir because of her striking green eyes (and Harry's) that are identical to Gryffindor's (they can find some picture with the green eyes). Even Mark Evans can have the same green eyes--only Snivellous doesn't since he is dark like his father. And GG heirs are a real threat to LV. Also GG could have been a champion of muggleborn wizards since he was half and half.
I like your theory but shouldn't Snape, not Godrick, be the HBP then? Maybe it's Snape's presumed son Mark who's the prince? Maybe Snape had Mark with a muggle woman?
Lots of questions, no answers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm
EDIT: Upon reading this I noticed I used the Americanism "knocking her up". Which, of course, means getting her pregnant. But the British meaning of "to knock up" is to knock on the door. Just wanted to clarify that I meant impregnate.
Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComicBookWorm
Snape takes the name of name of Perseus Evans since he is raised in the Evans household.
I just got all cold and shivering... This is creepy, but Perseus Evans and Severus Snape in an anagram!!!!!!!!!!!
You're really on to something here!!!!!!!!!


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Last edited by Trinny; July 1st, 2004 at 10:17 am.
  #1435  
Old July 1st, 2004, 10:16 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinny
I just got all cold and shivering... This is creepy, but Perseus Evans and Severus Snape in an anagram!!!!!!!!!!!
You're really on to something here!!!!!!!!!
Well it all works, but it is kind of convoluted and silly.


  #1436  
Old July 1st, 2004, 10:18 am
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As much as everyone might want him to come back, I just don't see it happening. For me, I think it would almost take away from the books if she brought him back somehow. Death is a part of life. Part of the Muggle world and the Wizard world. The pain of losing someone we love, although it hurts so very badly, gives us strengh in many different ways. It causes us to grow whether we want to or not. I think it would almost "cheapen" the story to bring him back. And it would cheat the readers. As wonderful as the magic is, it just can't fix everything.


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  #1437  
Old July 1st, 2004, 10:39 am
seriouly Sirius  Undisclosed.gif seriouly Sirius is offline
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Return of Sirius Black

I love Sirius Black.I hate to think he is gone.No I dont believe it.He will come back as handsome and rebellious as he ever was.He could escape from that veil after all he is the only person who managed to escape fom Azkaban.
Please bring him back.I still cry everytime I think that he might actually be gone.Harry Potter novels used to be my sanctuary now there is an aching pain in the pit if my stomach everytime I read them.Please bring him back.
If....just in case..if J.K. decides not to bring Sirius back (oh! Dear God I hope not) then I would like Harry to live with Lupin or maybe Dumbledore.They both were close to his father.Making Harry live with Lupin will lesson the pain of losing Sirius.But in the first place I sincerely hope and pray that he comes back,it would'nt be the same without him.I plead to J.K.to bring him back.I hope she reads this message and agrees.Ahhh!The joy it would bring to read the lines:"He is alive Harry,he is alive"
I cried the entire night I read about his....... about him going away,I still do.Now I know what it feels like to have a loved one go away.

I PLEAD[font=Arial] ONCE AGAIN TO BRING HIM BACK



Last edited by seriouly Sirius; July 1st, 2004 at 11:30 am. Reason: I woul like to add something
  #1438  
Old July 1st, 2004, 10:48 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninakix
other thoughts i stupidly left out (sorry, doublepost, i know, but i had a lapse... plus... that posts' long enough) is about the possibility of a sirius - regulus switch. ahhh. this might be a possibility as well, but doubtful. sirius probably didn't give the mirror to regulus... but that would be why the mirror didnt respond to "sirius black" - because regulus was sirius and sirius was regulus and regulus as sirius had the mirror. the mirror would have responded as "regulus black", possibly. it would be helpful in keeping touch with the real sirius.


but, madampudi, on your theory, i just have one question. if it's not likely that JKR had love affairs in there, because this is not a daytime soap, nor is it jerry springer, then, wouldn't harry have noticed the blasted out bit on the family tree next to mr. black? it would have been especially noticable because the current mrs. black would have to be added in a not-normal place.
Lets see if I can work on the answer since I am a night owl and on the west coast (time zones ahead of most normal people). I subscribe to the PG version of the multiple Mrs. Blacks. Hey if the senior Mr. Black was as abusive as Snape showed in his memory, I don't see how Lily's mom stayed married to him for two minutes (or if you want to leave out the Perseus Evans stuff whoever Snape's mother was.)

Ok, the very charming second Mrs. Black (Sirius and Regulus's mother) could have been the one to make the tapestry (and wouldn't those two Blacks, Mr. and Mrs. Black senior, make a match made in heaven). Or she could have had the whole thing redone. There's no way to know how hard it would have been to overwrite the first Mrs. Black with the second (maybe she was never even added to the tapestry).

Heck (notice the PG expletive--I normally curse like a sailor) ok back to topic. If it was all her magic, I can see her overwriting it so it isn't noticeable. She may have erased the other family members crudely so everyone would know they had been wiped off. This erasure she may done more carefully. And you know, being completely disinherited and wiped out of Black family history could account for Snape's antipathy.

Now as for the mirror ownership scenarios, I think you covered them all. Of course, any scenario that ends up with Sirius not permanently beyond the veil is fine with me.


 
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