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Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015



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  #21  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 10:59 pm
Midnightsfire  Undisclosed.gif Midnightsfire is offline
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

ooo...sounds like I need to link some websites. *winks*

I'm guessing that no one here ever saw the movie that fans produced and made a dozen years ago (1999 I believe). They spent something like $20k of their own money to make it and put it on the web. (I have to check to see if it's still around)

*goes and gets himself a shovel*
Got to dig these websites up. The Main page of this website should tell anyone that plenty is still going on.


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  #22  
Old November 2nd, 2012, 11:48 pm
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

So - in the original three movies, and the following three prequel stories - am I right in thinking that the Star Wars universe had not encompassed time travel? (Please annihilate me if I am wrong) - my guess is that the next three will hark back to their earlier story lines - possibly through time travel. (I sort of see, as in the last Star Trek movie - someone talking to their younger self).

Just an idea


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  #23  
Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:26 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
You said the answer right here.

The plot of how the Republic fell was told earlier by the fanbase. And it was indeed powerful and compelling, and even moving, but DARK. And when the inevitable comparisons were made, the movies were seen as incredibly lame and even inept.

Lucas ignored the fan based material likely because it was geared toward a more mature audience, and not for the children. A mature audience that was far younger when "New Hope" was first out in the 70s.
I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying that Lucas shouldn't have told that story because fans already had, and told a much darker, more powerful version? You obviously couldn't have known that it was darker and more powerful before you saw Lucas start his rendition (with the release of The Phantom Menace, and then Attack of the Clones, and then Revenge of the Sith - Revenge of the Sith being the darkest Star Wars movie, by the way, ending in death, despair, and exile relieved by hope only in that we know where it goes). He did ignore fans' material, because he was developing his own. So what? Should Joss Whedon take all his cues from his legion of followers, adapt fan fiction instead of doing his own thing? It's easy to say Lucas should have done everything differently if you hate what he actually did (and most do). I'm not aware of the George Lucas who's dismissive and spiteful toward his fans and the material they generate out of their love of Star Wars.


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  #24  
Old November 3rd, 2012, 4:48 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
I'm not understanding your point. Are you saying that Lucas shouldn't have told that story because fans already had, and told a much darker, more powerful version?
Why shouldn't he have taken it directly from what was already told? Which was quite byzantine. (Positively cloak & dagger. And in this case, the dagger was a short version of a light-sabre, which in itself was an obvious but awesome idea.) Heck the comic-books were telling it back in the 70s, and it was all good stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
You obviously couldn't have known that it was darker and more powerful before you saw Lucas start his rendition (with the release of The Phantom Menace, and then Attack of the Clones, and then Revenge of the Sith - Revenge of the Sith being the darkest Star Wars movie, by the way, ending in death, despair, and exile relieved by hope only in that we know where it goes).
And having seen all three movies and knowing all the other material out there, I think I can judge. (Lucas' one major contribution in that first trilogy was Return of the Jedi's Ewoks..says loads)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
He did ignore fans' material, because he was creating, developing, and filling out his own.
That first series he had little to contribute other than big ideas but completely clueless on how to sell those ideas to producers. Universal Studios and United Artists flatly rejected producing "Star Wars" because all he did was tell them to use their imagination and picture what it might look like.
When he made his last ditch effort to pitch his movie to 20th Century Fox, he used artwork by Ralph McQuarrie Needless to say, such art was inspiring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
So what? Should Joss Whedon take all his cues from his legion of followers, adapt fan fiction instead of doing his own thing?
Way different. Joss is a talent that people follow. Fans want him to do all his own stuff. Where as Lucas...not so much. The hands-off approach worked best. Just look at Empire Strikes Back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IenjoyAcidPops View Post
It's easy to say Lucas should have done everything differently if you hate what he actually did (and most do). I'm not aware of the George Lucas who's dismissive and spiteful toward his fans and the material they generate out of their love of Star Wars.
I think Lucas has been paying close attention ever since the Empire Strikes Back proved to be so awesome. And more to the point, paying close attention to trademarking and copyrights. $$$ And when things got a little out of hand, I believe that he felt he could better control filling in the blanks on his big ideas by simply joining in. (Which was the smart thing to do in my opinion.)

I really need to plug myself back in that stuff.

A friend of mine sent me a letter oh so long ago...
It reads:    


  My family has been Sith and involved with the Dark Side for generations. My great grandfather was Darth Bastage responsible for slaughtering an entire city of Gungans just for kicks. Needless to say, they expect me to continue the family line as a Sith Lord being strong with the Dark Side. And for a long while I thought that was what I wanted.

But one night while at academy, a friend and I were up late smoking some midichlorians, and we got a little ... you know experimental. Long story short, I'm ashamed to admit it, but we saved a Wookie from being eaten by a Tuk'atak. I'm not sure how to say this, but it just felt "right". So we started fooling around with the Light Side of the force more and more.

Now I'm confused as to which side I really am. Should I come out of the closet to my family and admit that I might be Light Side? My Mother alone is likely to kill everything within a parsec if I do. Often I feel like I have pure hate and fury in my heart, but then sometimes I think there really is no emotion, only peace. But then I remember the Sith code that says peace is a lie. Sometimes I think I swing both ways and I'm really a Revanite.

What should I do?

Signed,
Confused on Dromund Kaas
  


*chuckles* (I'm pretty sure I posted this earlier somewhere else.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginger1 View Post
So - in the original three movies, and the following three prequel stories - am I right in thinking that the Star Wars universe had not encompassed time travel? (Please annihilate me if I am wrong) - my guess is that the next three will hark back to their earlier story lines - possibly through time travel. (I sort of see, as in the last Star Trek movie - someone talking to their younger self). Just an idea
No time travel.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie involves the Skywalker's expanding family.


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  #25  
Old November 3rd, 2012, 5:49 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Why shouldn't he have taken it directly from what was already told?
Why should he have? Because those stories from fans were better than his, right? Look, I understand being disappointed with the prequels - even though I wasn't - but I don't see why he was wrong to tell his version of his own story. Remember, the prequels weren't him ripping fans off, they were him filling out backstory he had for years and years. Criticizing the movies he made is one thing, criticizing that he made them at all instead of recreating other peoples' is something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
(Lucas' one major contribution in that first trilogy was Return of the Jedi's Ewoks..says loads)
That does say loads. It would say more if it were correct. You're trying to exaggerate, right? I would at least want to know who wrote and directed A New Hope (and, you know, created Star Wars) if it wasn't George Lucas. Don't forget or undervalue that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
That first series he had little to contribute other than big ideas but completely clueless on how to sell those ideas to producers. Universal Studios and United Artists flatly rejected producing "Star Wars" because all he did was tell them to use their imagination and picture what it might look like.
When he made his last ditch effort to pitch his movie to 20th Century Fox, he used artwork by Ralph McQuarrie Needless to say, such art was inspiring.
Ralph McQuarrie's artwork helped - and of course it did, it's fantastic - but that doesn't mean Lucas couldn't flesh his concepts out. I will grant that Lucas is sometimes better with the big ideas than the specifics, but he is a brilliant world-builder and visual storyteller, and that can never just be about the big ideas.

There's more to this story than "George Lucas couldn't explain his ideas, so everyone passed until Fox saw McQuarrie's paintings." Star Wars was a really hard sell; it's epic space fantasy, sci-fi in a way, but in a decade in which "sci-fi" meant dystopian satire. In a genre that had certainly seen better days, there was one huge sci-fi franchise...and it was at Fox. That was Planet of the Apes, but that series had petered out by 1973. My point is: Few studios were eager to buy what Lucas was selling when he was selling it. Alan Ladd Jr. was the Fox exec who really championed the project, because he knew George Lucas was a great filmmaker (that he'd been Oscar-nominated for writing and directing American Graffiti helped).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Way different. Joss is a talent that people follow. Fans want him to do all his own stuff. Where as Lucas...not so much. The hands-off approach worked best. Just look at Empire Strikes Back.
It is different. It's different because people still like Joss Whedon. No one's pining for Firefly to be resurrected by Anyone But Joss Whedon.

I'm basically saying the same thing over and over, but here it is again: Star Wars is what it is due to the work of countless great artists (all or most of whom were brought onboard by George Lucas) - but the most important one is George Lucas. Discrediting him because not all of his work is exceptional is a mistake. I don't need everyone to have the appreciation that I have for the prequels, but I do need credit to be given where it's due. Love him or hate him, and most of us do both, he contributed a lot more tot the original trilogy than Ewoks.


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  #26  
Old November 3rd, 2012, 1:19 pm
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by ienjoyacidpops
That does say loads. It would say more if it were correct. You're trying to exaggerate, right? I would at least want to know who wrote and directed A New Hope if it wasn't George Lucas.
Of course it was him, just instead of having a load of 'yes men' he had a big gang of 'absolutely not' men which is basically the opposite of the newest trilogy.

I'm just going to wait for some more details I reckon, see who they've got writing and directing and so on.


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  #27  
Old November 4th, 2012, 12:59 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightsfire View Post
Why shouldn't he have taken it directly from what was already told? Which was quite byzantine. (Positively cloak & dagger. And in this case, the dagger was a short version of a light-sabre, which in itself was an obvious but awesome idea.) Heck the comic-books were telling it back in the 70s, and it was all good stuff.
For copyright reasons, creators of books and movies aren't supposed to look at fan made material because they can get into a lot of trouble with copyrights if their ideas match up with what the fans created.


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  #28  
Old November 4th, 2012, 2:48 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

That's only an issue when the work is an entirely original creation. Fan generated material doesn't have that protection because the characters and locations are the property of the copyright holder.

Paper WingsCopyright Infringement might seem complicated, but really it isn’t:

Do you own the character in question?

Yes? Do what you please!
No? You have no legal right to profit from work featuring that character without permission from copyright holder.
No? You have almost no rights to create such works not for a profit, either.

Is Fan Art Illegal?


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  #29  
Old November 5th, 2012, 12:07 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

I was a little sad to hear the back three would be original stories. I really hope they don't undo all the accepted cannon that was produced in the books series. I think it will upset a lot of fans if they do.


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  #30  
Old November 5th, 2012, 12:13 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by Rell View Post
For copyright reasons, creators of books and movies aren't supposed to look at fan made material because they can get into a lot of trouble with copyrights if their ideas match up with what the fans created.
Although that's already happened in Star Wars. There's a few examples of fan-made material arriving in the new trilogy e.g. the planet Coruscant


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  #31  
Old November 5th, 2012, 1:37 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by Spacecadet View Post
I was a little sad to hear the back three would be original stories. I really hope they don't undo all the accepted cannon that was produced in the books series. I think it will upset a lot of fans if they do.
I don't know if we should construe the books as being pertinent to film canon, as enjoyable as some of them are. Well OK I lied, I have never read any of them (I consider it an extension of my policy on fanfiction...). My point is that the prospect of an original story that filmmakers think will be successful inspires me much more than a derivative story beloved of dozens of people that may or may not translate well into film.


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  #32  
Old November 5th, 2012, 3:27 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

Just a quick post and run.

CNN has an article

Despite reports -- and the hopes of some passionate fans -- that George Lucas will simply serve as a consultant mapping out basic plotlines, we're not yet sure how involved the "Star Wars" creator and Lucasfilm founder will actually be in future installments.
Though some fans are convinced that Lucas' involvement, or lack thereof, will affect "Episode 7's" ability to return "Stars Wars" to its pre-"Phantom Menace" glory days.

"There's still a lot of rumbling discontent with the last three 'Star Wars' films and the way the franchise (has gone) over the last five/six years in particular," said Den of Geek editor Simon Brew. "It's been pillaged to an extent."
However, he added, "If you have an interest in 'Star Wars' on the big screen, than this is about as good a piece of news that's come through in the last 30 years."
Gawker's Drew Magary isn't sold.
"I don't think I'm alone in dreading the idea of paying another goddamn red cent for a 'Star Wars' movie ticket after Lucas made three terrible movies and went back to monkeyfart with the older, better ones, ruining them in the process," Magary wrote. "Now the series is finally free from Lucas' ambling, simplistic vision."

There is a lot of criticism directed at Lucas. Some of it is deserved and some of it isn't, Brew said, adding that there's a sense that, by focusing on the business side more than the creative side, Lucas has "been cheapening what he created." Regardless, he says, the filmmaker's genius is palpable.

That said, "taking (the impending films) away from his control and cutting them fresh would be the more positive way forward. ... It got to the point where (Lucas) held 'Star Wars' back. ... There are so many new, interesting voices in science fiction," Brew said. He pointed to franchises like "Batman" and "James Bond," which he believes have flourished thanks to new voices.

Whether Disney is able to do with Lucasfilm what they've done with Pixar and Marvel, which earned more than $1 billion at the box office with this year's "The Avengers," remains to be seen. But many fans agree that new screenwriters and a new director alone could aid the "Star Wars" universe.
A dedicated fan and webmaster at TheForce.net and RebelScum.com, Philip Wise said he "couldn't be happier" about the news and Lucas' muted new role.

"The fans that care about the story a lot and the movies a lot are happy that (Lucas will) be creatively involved, and even more happy that he wont' be actively involved in the directing and maybe even the writing," he said.


--------------------------

All this sounds familiar...


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  #33  
Old November 5th, 2012, 2:11 pm
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

I think Lucas called Mr Plinkett and said "After watching your reviews, I've realised you are right. It's time for me to step aside. You have shown me the errors of my way. I salute you good sir, goodbye"

Then hung up.


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  #34  
Old November 5th, 2012, 3:50 pm
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by canismajoris View Post
I don't know if we should construe the books as being pertinent to film canon, as enjoyable as some of them are. Well OK I lied, I have never read any of them (I consider it an extension of my policy on fanfiction...). My point is that the prospect of an original story that filmmakers think will be successful inspires me much more than a derivative story beloved of dozens of people that may or may not translate well into film.
Well the books really aren't fanfic. The authors are required to work with the accepted cannon and build from it with original stories and Lucas long ago endorsed those stories specifically the Zahn Trilogy that has been accepted as 7,8 and 9.

But original stories should be fine as long as they don't ignore that cannon already put into place and accepted. For instance you can take those characters laid out in the books and send them on a new adventure not from the books and include new characters on those adventures. I'm hoping that's what they mean by original stories.


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  #35  
Old November 5th, 2012, 5:33 pm
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

Disney should set the existing Star Wars movies aside, and just start again. There's no point trying to make sense of the narrative mess Lucas has left behind in the prequels.


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  #36  
Old November 6th, 2012, 12:11 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

If they cast Shia Lebouf as Han Solo...I'm going to hurt someone.
...Come to think of it, if he gets cast as anyone..or even comes near a production..


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  #37  
Old November 6th, 2012, 1:19 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

He'd make a good Ewok.


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  #38  
Old November 6th, 2012, 2:46 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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Originally Posted by AldeberanBlack View Post
Disney should set the existing Star Wars movies aside, and just start again. There's no point trying to make sense of the narrative mess Lucas has left behind in the prequels.
Star Trek already did that successfully, so it's possible, but if Lucas is really staying on, I don't think he'd be ok with that.


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  #39  
Old November 6th, 2012, 8:56 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

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If they cast Shia Lebouf as Han Solo...I'm going to hurt someone.
...Come to think of it, if he gets cast as anyone..or even comes near a production..
What if he gets cast as a villain that meets a particularly nasty end?


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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:11 am
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Re: Star Wars Episode 7 -- Coming 2015

In Episode VII, Disney should shock the world by showing that after the fall of the Empire the Borg crossed over from the Star Trek universe and conquered everything.


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