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Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 6th, 2006, 6:21 pm
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Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

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Character Analysis: Barty Crouch, Sr.

He's very interesting person in the wizarding world. He could have been Minister of Magic, he had a fantastic reputation and respect from his peers, and many dark wizards were afraid of him. By the end of his life he became crazy and was killed by his own son. Such incredible destiny! And maybe he earned/deserved it, because he hadn't pity and love for the people nearest to him. Some questions for discussion.

- Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?

- He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?

- He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?

- Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?

- If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?

-Are there any current Ministry officials following in Bartemius's footsteps?


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  #2  
Old November 9th, 2006, 10:43 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

- Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?

I think so, but combined with a blind ambition to have as much power as he could possibly acquire. He has proven several times that nothing was as important to him as his job. If he had shown his family half as much love and dedication as he did show to the Ministry things would have been very different in his life.

- He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?

I don't exactly understand what is meant with "their own methods", because I don't think he used the unforgivable curses, or maybe I missed something. He fought the Death Eaters via the court as far as I know.

- He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?

I think it really was a feeling of guilt towards his wife, he probably neglected her during his whole career and wanted to grand her final wish.

But of course he was extremely naive. He was convinced of his son's guilt and his loyalty to Voldemort, therefore he must have known that Barty would at least try to escape. He really underestimated Barty's will power and strength.


- Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?

Crouch was getting old and having his son in the house illegally, had put him under a lot of pressure, next to that the Quidditch World Cup and the Triwizard Tournament demanded a lot of attention. It was just too much too handle. His defenses were weak and that made it much easier to imperius him. He was a powerful wizard, but not at that crucial moment.


- If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?

Though question, if everything with his son hadn't happened, he wouldn't have died, he probably would have been chosen as Minister. I think he would have been better at catching death eaters then Scrimgeour. Crouch Sr never hesitated to apprehend people, he might have arrested someone as Lucius Malfoy.

But Barty Crouch Sr is in a way just like Scrimgeour, very suspicious and therefore he probably would have had a lot of innocent people arrested too.


-Are there any current Ministry officials following in Bartemius footsteps?

They do make a lot of arrests, but they work a bit different. Barty Crouch always seemed to have his amount of evidence against a potential Death Eater or helper well under control. I think the current ministry officials have some problems with that particular element.


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Last edited by Hes; November 9th, 2006 at 10:49 pm.
  #3  
Old November 10th, 2006, 12:29 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

I think Crouch, Sr is interesting because he's a dire warning against Percy Weasley's current attitude to work and family.

He probably did love his son deep down, which is the only reason he would consent to sneaking him out of Azkaban. He does brag to that tree about Barty, Jr getting twelve O.W.L.s, so surely he didn't hate the boy before his arrest, though Sirius was probably right that he should have spent more time getting to know him.

And it's not like Crouch, Sr had the finally word on whether Barty, Jr stayed out of Azkaban either. Isn't that for the whole Wizengamot to decide? What was Crouch supposed to do, try to convince his colleagues to ignore every principle he'd built his career on, because they were looking at his son? He was shocked and angry and hurt at what he must have seen as his son betraying him, personally, and did what may have been cathartic at the time, cutting him away completely. But it wasn't cathartic in the long run, so he went back for him. And paid the price.

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  #4  
Old November 10th, 2006, 12:42 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

- Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?
Almost certainly so, so much so that it was perhaps a dangerous obsession.

- He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?
He possibly believed that his side was handicapped by playing by the rules. In his mind it may have been the only identifiable way to turn the tide of the war.

- He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?
He let out his son because despite being a truly awful father he was not completely a monster. He did have some sense of humanity and compassion.

- Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?
The Imperius Curse wouldn't be an Unforgivable if it could readily be overthrown by wizards. The ability to overthrow it must be the exception rather than the rule. We've seen Harry overthrow it and we saw Crouch's son partially overthrow it. We have no evidence to suggest that it is in any way easy to overthrow and as a result Crouch Snr's inability to overthrow it does not provide any evidence to suggest that he was not as powerful as reputed.

- If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?
It is difficult to say. At the very least we could say that they would have been more willing to believe that Lord Voldemort had come back. At the same time however, Crouch's methods may have lead to further problems which could have lead to his stay being rather unstable.


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Old November 10th, 2006, 12:49 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?

He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?


I's like to put these questions together, because I think he did all to get the job of Minister, but obviously so made the fight against the Dark Arts to the business of his life. Obviously there had to be more to it and he needed a true animosity against the Dark Arts to make things so far, but I somehow assume that another topic could have lead him to the same.
After judging over his son it seems he became obsessed with things. It was no longer a fight against something or for a good job he desperately wanted to have. He had to deal with his own mistakes.


He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?


I believe Barty jr. there. Barty sr. loved his wife, but not his son. He did it for her and probably never expected that such a talented wizard as himself would faile by controlling his son.


Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?

Both Crouch's couldn't do, although they both have been very talented wizards. Imperius seems to be similar to occlumentic - if it is or is not in the character of a wizard it seems to be easier or harder to resist such a curse / charm.


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Old November 12th, 2006, 4:06 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?
Yes, I believe he did really make fighting the Dark Arts his business in life, but like Picko said, it was an obsession for him.

He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?
Barty Crouch was a pretty power-hungry person who valued his job over his family, as we saw with his treatment of Barty Jr. I don’t recall him using Dark Magic to defeat Dark Wizards, but if he did, I’d say he probably thought it was the only way to fight them. That says a lot about his character, mainly that he wasn’t really fighting against what the Death Eaters stood for if he was using their own methods against them.

He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?
He must have had some love for his son deep down in order to sneak him out of Azkaban. Or maybe he thought that with time, he could rehabilitate his son. It’s very possible that he believed he could control his son and keep him away from the Death Eaters, but he underestimated his son’s loyalty to them.

Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?
Since not many people can defend against the Imperius Curse, I’d say he still must have been decently powerful. He did after all try to break free, and was trying to tell people what was really going on near the end of his life (which of course made him appear mad).

If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?
I wonder if Crouch’s Ministry might have been a bit like Scrimgeour’s, with capturing of people who really were innocent. It’s possible there may have been less Death Eaters roaming the streets, but I’m not sure the Second War could have been avoided by anyone – if Voldemort wanted to make war, than I’d assume he’d get a war.

Are there any current Ministry officials following in Bartemius's footsteps?
As I said above, Scrimgeour seems a bit similar to Barty in their desire for power and their cracking down on Dark Wizards.


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Old January 31st, 2007, 1:23 am
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

I think Percy's pretty similar to Barty...he worships him too.

Also, what about these "secrets" of his that Winky knows? Do you think that Harry might be able to find these out, and do you think that they will be of any use to him?


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Old January 31st, 2007, 1:28 am
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

he was probably a disturbed child at one point in his life...which isn't an excuse, but it could be a reason...his character is rather difficult to analyze, however the best approach would be to see what he accomplished in his life, rather than how he did it...i believe that he would have made a better minister than fudge..he certainly seemed to trust dumbledore more


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Old January 31st, 2007, 1:25 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle87423 View Post
Also, what about these "secrets" of his that Winky knows? Do you think that Harry might be able to find these out, and do you think that they will be of any use to him?
I don't think that Winky has any more secrets of Crouch that can help Harry in any way with his hunt for horcruxes. She wouldn't be willing to divulge them any way, even Dobby has still trouble with Malfoy's secrets. Winky is too loyal to Crouch Sr.

The secrets that Winky kept were more likely to me related to Barty Crouch Jr.


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Old January 31st, 2007, 1:25 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle87423 View Post
what about these "secrets" of his that Winky knows? Do you think that Harry might be able to find these out, and do you think that they will be of any use to him?
There is a Crouch family related to the Blacks, though that may not be a huge secret. If Winky is hiding something Harry needs to know, Jo will surely tell us in DH. I suspect Bartemius knew quite a lot of things about the Ministry and its employees, things he may have complained about at home in Winky's hearing. But if the "secrets" don't drive some part of the plot, I don't see Jo revealing what they were.

So what kinds of "secrets" would drive some part of the DH plot?


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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:39 am
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
So what kinds of "secrets" would drive some part of the DH plot?
Let's see: A conspiracy within the MOM is in league with a goblin splinter group to steal a huge amount of the Gringotts treasure by driling a tunnel that starts from the Janus Thickey Ward at St. Mungo's, using Mr. Dursley's Muggle drills to avoid detection by the wizarding community

What JKR does with characters like Barty Crouch, Sr., is amazing. She is actually giving young readers a taste of the various types they will undoubtedly meet later on in life, in this bureaucratic Muggle world of ours.

Crouch, Sr., is a very mixed character.

On the one hand, he is careerist. It's telling that he was willing to condemn his son, in public, where image counted. He was so determined to show no public favoritism that he might have condemned his son without a full hearing; by Crouch, Jr.'s, pleading, it seems so.

On the other hand, he made an exception for family -- privately. He was willing to sacrifice principle and save his son in private, as long as no one could know about it. That would be admirable in a way, but makes him a hypocrite.

He sincerely wanted to rid the world of the Death Eaters. But he apparently saw the Death Eaters as certain specific individuals who had done specific things. He saw the issue as survival against the evil intent of those powerful individuals.

He did not grasp that he and his allies could find themselves poisoned in the long run by adopting the Death Eaters' methods, allying with the Dementors, and by inference from what we saw, using summary trials and perhaps even torture. (I would say just being held in Azkaban pre-trial sounds like torture, actually.)

He made a show of justice without fully comprehending it.



Last edited by fruitia pickleweed; February 27th, 2007 at 12:45 am.
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Old May 3rd, 2007, 3:54 am
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

He sounds and acts a lot like some current politicians. He said and did what he believed that the wizarding community wanted to hear, that the evil wizards would be punished at all costs, and that he knew what was best for everyone. He never stopped to think that his methods were not much different from the ones his opponents used, only his had the pretense of legality.


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Old May 16th, 2007, 1:22 am
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

- Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?

No, not really. I think the business was to become Minister, and that was one of the 'best' ways to become Minitster, capture DEs.

- He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?

I think it was both, he didn't think he could capture them without using the Unforgivables, but he also did it because he wanted to be Minister.

- He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?

I think his wife wanted him to take his son back, and felt bad for him. He did everything for his wife, so he did it. Yes, I think he thought Barty Jr. couldn't escape while he was in control.

- Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?

Maybe, but I don't think it matters how powerful you are, I think it is about how much character strength you have. Do we know how Hermione did? That might help us indicate. No, I think it is how much character strength you have.

- If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?

I don't think so, Voldemort would only have gotten them out of Azkaban, or, if they had been killed, he would have gotten more followers. He would have come back anyway.

-Are there any current Ministry officials following in Bartemius's footsteps?

Scrimgeour is trying (and failing) to get more DEs, like Crouch, and loves his job, wouldn't want to give it up, and is professional.


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Old July 9th, 2007, 7:54 pm
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Re: Bartemius Crouch, Sr. : Character Analysis

-Was fighting the Dark Arts really the business of his life or not?
I would have to say so because he sent his own son to azkaban.

- He fought the Dark Wizards/Witches using their own methods. Did he consider that the only way to win the battle with them or because he wanted the job of Minister?
I think that all he wanted was the job and people liked that suggestion.

- He hated his son and judged him in his wife's presence. But why did he let him leave Azkaban? Did he think that Barty Crouch Jr. couldn't rejoin the Death Eaters while under his control?
I think he did it because he liked his wife and wanted to give her her dying wish.

- Was Crouch not as powerful a wizard as many people thought because he couldn't defend himself against the Imperius curse?
I think he still is a powerful wizard. There is no way to defend against an unforgivable curse

- If Crouch had become the Minister of Magic would the wizarding world have avoided the Second war by the arrests of many more Death Eaters?
There is a way that it could have been avoided seeing as he knew that Barty Crouch was out and helping his master get stronger.

-Are there any current Ministry officials following in Bartemius's footsteps?
I do not think so. i think things are going a lot better.


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