Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Legilimency Studies

Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis



 
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old October 19th, 2006, 3:46 pm
gertiekeddle's Avatar
gertiekeddle  Female.gif gertiekeddle is offline
Eldest Gruff
 
Joined: 5109 days
Location: Öelda, et sinust ma hoolin
Age: 42
Posts: 5,235
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guad View Post
And I am not entirely convinced that Draco is marked with the Dark Mark. In the first place the DArk mark is something that Voldemort gives his closest followers. It's like an honour, like to be awarded and access in the inner circle. I don't think he would let Draco join, just like this, Draco would have to prove or earn this mark. But he failed.
I agree that he probably not has the dark mark now. I wondered if he maybe created himself something similar. Neither Borkes nor too many people else probably ever saw the dark mark in this way, but Draco probably saw it on the arm of his father. It should be simple for a seven year Hogwarts student to create a mark, which looks like the real one for delusion. Just a thought. Maybe it's a bit too far fetched tough.


__________________
(Avatar by Alfonzo)


I don't want to live in a world
where the strong rules and the weak cower.
Harry Dresden.
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old October 19th, 2006, 7:47 pm
shadowdogs  Undisclosed.gif shadowdogs is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5182 days
Location: Prefects' Bath
Posts: 175
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageThyme
If he survives their wrath, can he ever be saved? Can he, or will he, help Harry bring down Voldemort?
The only thing Draco cares about more than status is his own safety. I seriously doubt the enthusiasm he showed over the prospect of killing Dumbledore for the Dark Lord was real. I don't think he ever felt confident of succeeding. Of course he did a certain amount of bragging about it -- he may as well build himself up as much as possible, since his own life is on the line.

Now that he's proven himself to be the world's biggest choke artist in front of Voldemort's people, he'll do as his dad did, and try to weasel his way out of his association with Voldemort, saying it wasn't his fault (which in some ways it wasn't).

I think he will contribute to the anti-VOldemort effort. He has his reasons, doesn't he? Besides, being devoted to fighting the dark side is a way of gaining status in the Order. He's already close to Snape, who's around the most powerful wizard in the Order. He's very clever and resourceful -- I think he could make a contribution even if he is impossible to like.

As for whether he can be saved, I think he mostly has been. I think it will be hard for him to...deal with himself as a person who cares about others, but I think he has a lot of potential to be decent even if he isn't strictly nice.


__________________
"I should have known"
--Albus Dumbledore
  #23  
Old October 19th, 2006, 11:07 pm
SofiaR  Female.gif SofiaR is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4975 days
Location: Portugal
Age: 36
Posts: 141
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
Sometime in the spring, grabbing Draco and putting him and his mother in hiding whether he wanted it or not, would have preserved Draco's innocence in that sense. I think it is of course important that Draco did not kill Dumbledore, but far more important that he did so as the result of his own freely made choice. I believe choices are an important theme of the series. "It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are"...
But I absolutely agree with that. That's exactly why I think Dumbledore's sacrifice could never be considered a waste.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
We shall see in Book 7. I tend to think Rowling will want to include some example of Dumbledore's approach actually succeeding.
So do I, but the person I'm considering is Snape. The story has been sort of building for that and his character has a lot of depth. But this is a discussion for another thread. Snape and Draco aside, we've actually already seen cases of Dumbledore succeeding - look at Hagrid or Lupin. Distrusted by the community for one reason or another but they've had Dumbledore's support and they proved to be good people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
That's another character I definitely expect to see again. Of course, just like Draco, Snape is featured in Harry's closing thoughts of HBP, so I could see where you might not agree with me on this point, either.
Ha ha, nice try I thought there was quite the difference in the way he thought about the two, but I think this is one point we'll disagree on.

Sure, I think we are going to see a resolution for Draco in book 7. But I don't expect it to be very complex or to see this big redemption because I think it would take lots of effort and many pages for this to be done in a believable way and I don't see room for that. It's more or less like the romance and hormones in HBP. It's like it was done in HBP so book 7 wouldn't have to waste much time on it. I see Draco's story the same way - dealt with in HBP so book 7 could do a quick resolution.


  #24  
Old October 20th, 2006, 7:49 pm
indiepopqueen  Female.gif indiepopqueen is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4659 days
Location: home!
Posts: 10
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

he is confused personality and has no idea what he wants to achieve...he has done some bad things but u can't call him an out and out bad person out there to hurt everyone....he hated dumbeldore somuch and he had caught him weak and defenseless....so why didn't he kill himknowing that the deatheaters were by his side why did his hands tremble to kill the person he hated on the orders ofthe person whom he and his family highly respected for generations...that leaves several questions unanswered....doesn't it?


  #25  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 3:19 am
Sugabeen  Female.gif Sugabeen is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5442 days
Location: England
Age: 47
Posts: 316
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

I thought people might find this interesting if, like me, they haven't come across it before. I love speculation as much as the next person, but sometimes its helpful to go back and see what our beloved author intended to create...
Its from J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999

Tell us more about Draco Malfoy. There’s a name that sort of gives it away.
JKR: There’s a name I conjured up.

Draco, bad faith or something.
JKR: Yeah. Exactly.

Harry’s sort of opposite number.
JKR: Yeah. We’ve all met him. He is the bully of the most refined type in that unlike Dudley, Harry’s cousin who is a physical bully, but really not bright enough to access all of your weak points. Draco is, um, he’s a snob. He’s a bigot and he’s a bully, and as I say, in the most refined sense, he knows exactly what will hurt people

Q: Why does Malfoy dislike Harry so much in the first book?
JKR: Well, if you notice the very first time that Malfoy meets Harry and knows that it’s Harry, he makes an effort to be his friend. He does actually want to be associated with Harry because he knows that it would be cool to turn up at the school being Harry Potter’s friend because Harry’s so famous. Well Harry rebuffs him because Malfoy is being so rude about Hagrid and about Ron who Harry likes so much and it’s at that point that Malfoy turns against him. Because Malfoy is, ------- yet again this is so frustrating, I can’t tell you everything I could tell you because it would ruin future books for you. But Malfoy comes from a family who has strong associations with dark magic as you know and you are going to find out more about that in Book 4. So Malfoy is kind of --- he wanted to be Harry’s friend, Harry didn’t want him as a friend and that made him bitter. That‘s the starting point.


From this I would venture to say that his real target in killing Dumbledore would be to hit Harry where it hurt him most. After all, he only had to endure another year under Dumbledore and seemed more angry at Harry for his father being imprisoned than Dumbledore.



Last edited by Sugabeen; October 23rd, 2006 at 3:43 am.
  #26  
Old October 23rd, 2006, 10:29 pm
SofiaR  Female.gif SofiaR is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4975 days
Location: Portugal
Age: 36
Posts: 141
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

I don't think the main reason for Draco's actions in HBP is so connected to Harry on a personal level, it's bigger than that (although Harry does represent the enemy to him and his family). But in HBP we see a Draco who doesn't care much about pranks and petty bickering between students anymore, he's at a different level now, there are more important things.

Killing Dumbledore may hurt Harry a lot, but Dumbledore is so much more than that and Draco knew that - it was a big mission (one that everyone expected him to fail).


  #27  
Old October 24th, 2006, 6:03 pm
shadowdogs  Undisclosed.gif shadowdogs is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5182 days
Location: Prefects' Bath
Posts: 175
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
From this I would venture to say that his real target in killing Dumbledore would be to hit Harry where it hurt him most. After all, he only had to endure another year under Dumbledore and seemed more angry at Harry for his father being imprisoned than Dumbledore.
Yikes!

I'm sure Draco isn't above revelling in Harry's unhappiness, but doesn't he have bigger things to worry about just then? Also, I don't think he could maintain the proper air of nonchalance by killing someone to hurt a rival. It would make him seem too interested in Harry.

I am really interested in JKR's remarks there, though. It does seem like Draco was trying to be nice when they first met. And he is Harry's opposite -- self-aggrandizing and rather cowardly.

When JKR says he knows how to hurt people... He doesn't seem to have Hermione's number. What's that about?


__________________
"I should have known"
--Albus Dumbledore
  #28  
Old October 24th, 2006, 6:51 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5103 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdogs View Post
I am really interested in JKR's remarks there, though. It does seem like Draco was trying to be nice when they first met. And he is Harry's opposite -- self-aggrandizing and rather cowardly.
In fact, I would say he was even trying to be nice when they FIRST met, at the robe shop, when he did not know who Harry was. But he had no idea Harry had been raised by Muggles, so his attempts to get a conversation going fell flat until he insulted Hagrid (which, of course, Harry wouldn't stand for).

Quote:
When JKR says he knows how to hurt people... He doesn't seem to have Hermione's number. What's that about?
At a guess, it is a boy/girl thing. (No, I am not a closet Hr/D shipper..., just suggesting that a teenage boy may not understand how the mind of a teenaged girl works.) Pansy seems to have a better idea of how to get to Hermione.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #29  
Old October 24th, 2006, 11:47 pm
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4988 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 73
Posts: 2,167
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Of course, the year of HBP is the first time Draco hasn't had his father in the background, backing him up. Does he say "My father..." once in the book? He seems to have expected Lucius to be out of Azkaban quickly at the end of OotP, but Lucius is still there - his dad has let him down. Now he has to do everything by himself and he is landed with a really big task. It makes you feel sorry for him. The thing that has given him confidence and consequence all through his school career isn't there. Isn't it tragic that he cries in front of Myrtle - he has no-one he can turn to for support? He hasn't made a real friend he can trust in 6 years at Hogwarts.


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
  #30  
Old October 25th, 2006, 1:52 am
Leslie33  Female.gif Leslie33 is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5088 days
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 650
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

[quote]

I'm kind of luke warm about Draco Malfoy. I think he is a product of Nurture and SPOILING. He's kind of like Dudley Dursley. Basically, in the eyes of Lucius, he can do no wrong. Because of this, Draco has been taught he can say and do anything and suffer no consequences. Whereas the Weasley kids know their are consequences for their actions. A perfect example was when Fred and George tried to trick Ron into doing an Unbreakable Vow. Arthur catches the twins and hands out a severe punishment. Another is when Ron "borrowed" his Father's car to get to School. Molly sends him a Howler and gives him a verbal tongue lashing. Even before opening it, he knows he's in trouble. These kids know if they get in trouble at School, their Parents will find out and LOOK OUT!
As I've said in other posts, I see Lucius Malfoy as being a cold-hearted Father. Nothing but the best for and FROM his Boy. In short, Draco is expected to be PERFECT, in short, Failure is not an option. Draco knows that when he is with his Father, he is to remain in Lucius' Shadow and keep quiet and nod in agreement to Lucius.
This is why we see him in the company of Crabbe and Goyle. This is HIS chance to show off in front of other people. When the tough get tough, Draco turns the other cheek and runs away.
Did JKR plant the seeds from the beginning that he would grow to be a Death Eater?
Yes, she did. He's the Son of two Death Eaters and comes from a long line of Pure Bloods who have believed Muggle Born Wizards and Wizards who are poor should be banished from society.

Draco is making his 80% of his choices from Fear. He is desperate to impress his Father. As he gets older, he realizes he will probably NEVER impress his Father. He knows he is to be seen, in his Father's Shadow and NOT heard. He realizes he is to be emotionally strong and NOT cry. THIS is why he reacted to seeing Harry when he was crying. He thought Harry would see him as being a cry-baby, a wimp, woss. He, like Snape was probably punished for crying.
I think on many levels, Draco, like Snape is mis-understood. He has had to live with a Father who probably redicules him. Lucius also probably has that "Failure is NOT An Option". Draco is probably under a heck of a lot of pressure to live up to his Father's Standards and realizes that nothing he does will ever be enough.
THIS is why he was bragging about becoming a Death Eater. At first he thought it would be all fun and games. Sure, a few Mudbloods would be hurt. To him it was like being accepted into "The In Group" at School. It's HIS chance to show how big he is WITHOUT his Father there to pull his strings. It was probably his way of showing his Father who he really was.
But then, he realized that he was actually hurting people. If, as Albus said, he had REALLY meant to harm people, he would have put more of an effort into it.
As Dumbledore said, Draco was NOT a Killer. If he was, he would have killed Albus right away. But he stopped and actually started questioning his actions. The fact he was crying really says something. I think his actions/personality is the result of his Father's Bullying.
Now that Lucius is out of the picture and has had less of an influence, I think Draco will re-think his ways. It's going to take something huge, like the torture and death of Narcissa for Draco to turn against the Death Eaters and help Harry.
I do see him eventually joining forces with Harry. Primarily because I think Draco finds comfort in numbers. He realizes the Death Eaters will NOT protect him--especially if Voldemort publically humiliates him.
He seeks comfort from being in large groups and will at first join Dumbledore's Army to save his own rear. He realizes there is safety in numbers.
I don't think Draco likes Harry. He has been poisoned against Harry by his Father, Narcissa and to some extent Snape. Whether you like or hate Snape, he has contributed to Draco's prejudiced against Harry, Ron and Hermione. Notice Draco looks up to Snape. He's seen Snape being mean and nasty to Harry and because Snape does it, it's cool and acceptable to be nasty to Harry. Once again, I'm not getting into the Snape is Good versus evil subject.
So no, I don't think Draco has the cold-heartedness to cause any REAL lasting harm to Harry or anyone.
As far as Voldemort, Draco has committed a big mistake. He was unable to perform Voldemort's "most IMPORTANT Assignment" ever. That was to get Dumbledore out of the picture. Once again, Draco chickened out and had to be rescued by someone else, Snape. That in itself is going to disappoint Voldemort and Lucius.









__________________



I TRUST Severus Snape!!!!
  #31  
Old October 25th, 2006, 3:08 am
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5830 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guad View Post
And I am not entirely convinced that Draco is marked with the Dark Mark. In the first place the DArk mark is something that Voldemort gives his closest followers. It's like an honour, like to be awarded and access in the inner circle. I don't think he would let Draco join, just like this, Draco would have to prove or earn this mark. But he failed.
I disagree - I don't think the Dark Mark is just for members of the Inner Circle. Crabbe and Goyle have fathers who are DEs - Voldemort said hello to them in the Graveyard. I can't imagine them being in the close inner circle - they probably function more as thugs. There's no canon, but my personal belief is that the Mark comes first and then the "challenge" to prove worth. Lots of people didn't think Peter was marked either, until GoF, when his mark is used to call the others.

JKR basically said that Draco was a Death Eater in the following about why Draco is good at Occlumency:

Mugglenet Interview

"I think Draco would be very gifted in Occlumency, unlike Harry. I thought of Draco as someone who is very capable of compartmentalising his life and his emotions, and always has done. So he's shut down his pity, enabling him to bully effectively. He's shut down compassion — how else would you become a Death Eater? So he suppresses virtually all of the good side of himself."

"But then he's playing with the big boys, as the phrase has it, and suddenly, having talked the talk he's asked to walk it for the first time and it is absolutely terrifying. And I think that that is an accurate depiction of how some people fall into that kind of way of life and they realise what they're in for. I felt sorry for Draco. Well, I’ve always known this was coming for Draco, obviously, however nasty he was."


I was thinking of what Zgirnius wrote about the idea of Malfoy meaning "Bad Faith." That can also be translated as "Lack of Trust" - Malfoy obviously doesn't trust Dumbledore, but he really makes a mistake by not trusting Snape. In fact, on the Tower, Draco sounds nearly deranged as he goes on about how Snape would wake up the next morning and not be the Dark Lord's favorite anymore. Draco dismisses the Vow, even though he knows all about it, and he assumes that Snape is his rival, yet Snape is the one who helps him run away. Most of Draco's assumptions lead him astray.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon
  #32  
Old October 25th, 2006, 3:31 am
HP4evr1807's Avatar
HP4evr1807  Female.gif HP4evr1807 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5096 days
Location: In Harry's Army
Age: 30
Posts: 2,947
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis


When we first meet Draco, Harry sees him as a pampered, snobbish, bully. Did JKR plant the seeds from the beginning that he would grow to be a Death Eater?

I think she did. At first, it seems that in the series Draco is quite harmless, but instead just a snobby, spoiled boy who doesn't like people that his father and mother percieve as fit for them. However, this was the beggining of what would eventually turn into the Draco that decided to become a Death Eater.


Is Draco truly making his choices of his own volition? How much of his choice is derived from fear, or is it bravado?

I think that Draco makes his choices to look brave, and also because of fear. Draco knows what will happen if he doesn't follow his father's path, and if he deviates from the norm of the Malfoy family. He would be rejected, and perhaps even harmed. Draco yearns to please his father, and also wants to look cool and brave to his peers, but in truth, I believe Draco is a very self concious individual, and this is shown by his break down in HBP.


Is he misunderstood? Or just plain mean?

I think it is a bit of both. Draco is misunderstood, because of the standards he lives by, and what he is expected to become. Imagine what would have happened to Draco if he became a Hufflepuff for instance, his father would have probably made him quite school, in PS/SS, Draco said that if he got into Hufflepuff, he would probably quit school. I think he is very mean at times, especially to people that he precives as weak or insecure like himself, such as people like Neville Longbottom, I think his bullyness covers up for his own insecurites, which is the case for many bullies.


With Daddy Lucius cooling his heels in Azkaban, and becoming a neophyte Death Eater, does Draco have the cold-heartedness to live up to the Death Eater Code of Conduct?

I don't know. Before the conclusion of HBP, I would have been leaning toward the answer of perhaps he could, but after HBP, and after he did not kill Dumbledore, I don't believe he has what it takes to live up to the true Death Eater Code of Conduct, like his aunt Bellatrix Lestrange can, Draco is like Regulus Black in that way.


Does he really wish to cause harm to anyone, including Harry?

I don't think so. If he really wanted to cause harm to an individual, he would have done it before now. Sure, I believe he isn't that innocent, and if he was challenged, he would harm an indivdual, or at least hurt them, like he did with Harry on the train in HBP, by breaking his nose by easedropping in on Draco's private conversation. Although I believe he truely can not stand Harry (he was raised not to), I don't think he wishes to murder him or anything like that. And he has to have at least some coldness for harm somewhere, considering he can do Unforgivable curses.

The end of HBP has Dumbledore's death a fait accompli, but not by Draco's hand. How will his failure to carry out Voldemort's order, himself, be perceived by Voldemort and the other Death Eaters?
I don't believe that Voldemort will take this very lightly. However, it is very possible that Voldemort expected this. I tend to believe that Draco was set up for failure in this situation---it is possible that Voldemort knew that Draco would not live up to the challenge. However, I still think that Draco should be worried about what Voldemort will think, especially since Draco had the direct oppertunity to commit the deed.


If he survives their wrath, can he ever be saved? Can he, or will he, help Harry bring down Voldemort?

I believe that Draco still has a chance for redemption. If Draco chooses the right path, I believe he could be of help to Harry and/or the Order. Draco lived in a house with a Death Eater father and in a Death Eater family, and knows a lot about them, and could offer some valuable information, and tell what the Death Eaters might be up to based on what he learned growing up with them. I believe that Draco, if nothing tragic happens to him, can be "saved" because he didn't kill Dumbledore.

In Conclusion, I believe as well that the whole question of nature vs. nuture plays a very interesting, and important role in this case. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if Draco would have been raised in a completely different environment, for example, if Draco was adopted by the Weasleys when Draco was a baby.


__________________

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference
.

-Robert Frost, The Road Not Taken
  #33  
Old October 25th, 2006, 6:39 am
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5103 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Of course, the year of HBP is the first time Draco hasn't had his father in the background, backing him up. Does he say "My father..." once in the book? He seems to have expected Lucius to be out of Azkaban quickly at the end of OotP, but Lucius is still there - his dad has let him down. Now he has to do everything by himself and he is landed with a really big task.
In HBP, Draco is sixteen, about to turn 17 (June 6), the age of adulthood in his society. Although he is surely wishing his father were around, I think Draco looks on his assigment also as an entry into adulthood/manhood. I don't think he rejects Snape so much because he does not trust him (he surely seems to believe Snape is Voldemort's man), but because Snape is also a father figure to him (his favorite teacher, an old friend of his family, and as his Head of House, his official parental figure at school). Draco wants to do it himself in part, I think, to prove himself.

A couple of quotes from his conversation with Snpae during Slughorn's Christmas party:

HBP
"...I just don't want you butting in!"

This sounds to me like a very typical thing for a teen to say to a parent, going through a certain phase.
HBP
"...I don't need your protection! It's my job, he gave it to me and I'm doing it, I've got a plan and it's going to work, it's just taking a bit longer than I thought it would!"

This, too. And the bit about having a plan that is going to work-he wants Snape to know that, that he too is a competent Death Eater (as he believes Snape is).

I do also see the thing about Snape stealing Draco's glory, but I see that as perhaps secondary to Draco, and perhaps an idea he may have gotten from dear Aunt Bella along with some Occlumency lessons.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #34  
Old October 26th, 2006, 2:52 am
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4988 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 73
Posts: 2,167
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

I don't argue with what you say, Zgirnius, Draco is definitely trying to stand on his own feet and I agree that he is rejecting Snape's overtures of help because he feels too grown-up to need them.

What I was adding is that this is the first time he hasn't had Lucius standing in the shadows behind him in his life - and in terms of personal identity being Lucius Malfoy's son has been a massive part of who he is. He has been forced to grow up quickly and beome the protector of his parents rather then the protected.


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
  #35  
Old October 26th, 2006, 5:55 am
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5830 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I do also see the thing about Snape stealing Draco's glory, but I see that as perhaps secondary to Draco, and perhaps an idea he may have gotten from dear Aunt Bella along with some Occlumency lessons.
I think Draco has definitely changed due to being a DE. Not only is he sickly looking, as though the strain is making him ill, but he truly sounds deranged on the Tower, and his fixation is Snape. I do agree that he is getting this attitude from Bellatrix:

HBP, Chapter 27

"He's been offering me plenty of help -- wanting all of the glory for himself -- wanting a bit of the action -- 'What are you doing?' - . . . He's going to wake up tomorrow and it'll be all over and he won't be the Dark Lord's favorite anymore, he'll be nothing compared to me, nothing!"


You just want to add "Mwahahahaha!" at the end, because he sounds a little like Voldemort or Barty Jr.

horcrux4: Perhaps if Lucius had been more successful and was out of prison, Draco wouldn't be as deep into things as he is, though I can't see how Lucius could shelter Draco for long. At least Lucius might have considered an offer to hide his family. In CoS, when Borgin mentions the Hand of Glory, Lucius acts very insulted that his only son might become a common criminal - though it's very hypocritical. He's a DE, but he doesn't want his son to turn to crime.

I just noticed that remark from Draco about "a bit of the action." That sounds like gangster talk - "A Piece of the Action." There was a Star Trek episode by that name about a planet full of gangsters, and a character named " Bela Oxmyx," believe it or not:
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ode/68758.html


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon
  #36  
Old October 26th, 2006, 11:51 am
guad's Avatar
guad  Undisclosed.gif guad is offline
Mrs Grawp
 
Joined: 5100 days
Location: Rocking with BAS DÖSE
Posts: 3,618
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
In CoS, when Borgin mentions the Hand of Glory, Lucius acts very insulted that his only son might become a common criminal - though it's very hypocritical. He's a DE, but he doesn't want his son to turn to crime
But in Lucius eyes to be a DE is not to be a common criminal. DEs are the followers of the one who is going to rule the world (or so they hope). They seek for world domination, and they think that as soon as Voldemort takes over they will be no criminals anymore, but high members in the hierachy.

This is actually what Draco says in the train: that he will move on to greater things, and that what really matters is the grade of devotion you show the Dark Lord to gain status. He doesn't see himself as a criminal.

Speaking of which, if we assume that Voldemort fails and that Draco survives, he better do a deal with the ministry, because if he doesn't and they catch him, he is off for a lifelong arrest in Azkaban.
I once came across a theory that considered the possibility that Draco could go back to Hogwarts. This is impossible.
He is out of age. He used and unforgivable. He helped in the plan to kill Dumbledore. If they ever catch him and he doesn't make a deal, he can as well apply for a double cell with his dad.

I personally hope that he survives. I don't like him, but I think it would be nice to see a bad guy joining the good side, not because he suddenly realises his mistakes, but because it's the most convenient thing to do.


__________________

guads random creative moments: Fanart and Fanfiction

Support the True Heroes! Joins Squiddies Army!


BAS DÖSE! More META L than EVER!
  #37  
Old October 26th, 2006, 3:30 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5103 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guad View Post
Speaking of which, if we assume that Voldemort fails and that Draco survives, he better do a deal with the ministry, because if he doesn't and they catch him, he is off for a lifelong arrest in Azkaban.
I once came across a theory that considered the possibility that Draco could go back to Hogwarts. This is impossible.
He is out of age. He used and unforgivable. He helped in the plan to kill Dumbledore. If they ever catch him and he doesn't make a deal, he can as well apply for a double cell with his dad.
I had to think for a bit to recall why you think Draco has used an Unforgivable Curse...but you meant Rosmerta, right? We don't actually know for a fact that Madam Rosmerta was Imperiused by Draco personally. He does not admit it, just his knowledge of it. In "The Unbreakable Vow", Draco tells Snape that he does not need his (Snape's) help, and that he has better helpers than Crabbe and Goyle. To me this suggests outside Death Eater help, which could have included Imperiusing Rosmerta. I'm skeptical that Draco could have cast that spell and made it stick, based on his later unwillingness to use another Unforgivable.

I don't actually expect Draco to be back in school, but I think his problems would not be with the Ministry. The Ministry knows nothing about his involvement with the necklace and mead plots (in fact, they probably know little about these incidents at all, beyond the bare bones, and have no reason to suspect someone AT the school was involved). They know nothing about how Death Eaters were gotten into the school. Most importantly, they know who killed Dumbledore, and that person was not smuggled into the school by Draco or anyone else, he was a teacher and a trusted associate of Dumbledore's.

The testimony of Harry and/or Snape could change this, but I don't see either of them as very likely to cooperate with a Ministry investigation of Draco.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #38  
Old October 26th, 2006, 3:45 pm
guad's Avatar
guad  Undisclosed.gif guad is offline
Mrs Grawp
 
Joined: 5100 days
Location: Rocking with BAS DÖSE
Posts: 3,618
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I had to think for a bit to recall why you think Draco has used an Unforgivable Curse...but you meant Rosmerta, right? We don't actually know for a fact that Madam Rosmerta was Imperiused by Draco personally. He does not admit it, just his knowledge of it. In "The Unbreakable Vow", Draco tells Snape that he does not need his (Snape's) help, and that he has better helpers than Crabbe and Goyle. To me this suggests outside Death Eater help, which could have included Imperiusing Rosmerta. I'm skeptical that Draco could have cast that spell and made it stick, based on his later unwillingness to use another Unforgivable
IMO it was Draco who imperioused Rosmerta. He was quite willing to use the Crucius on Harry and there wasn't anybody else to help him with it. The DE only got involved in the end, and Snape wasn't in the plan. I estimate that his two helpers Crabbe and Goyle are even more unable to cast an unforgivable on anybody.

The ministry will know by now. Harry told McGonagall and I guess that she has informed the ministry about Dracos involvement. It's no secret at all.

But it's actually irrelevant for the question. Even if he didn't cast it, there is still enough to throw him rightaway into Azkaban: (I mean, they are letting Stan rott in Azkaban for talking in a bar)

Three times attempted murder on Dumbledore, which let one student to a long term hospital stay (Katie) and another to nearly die (Ron)
Collaboration with DE leading them into the castle which directly endangered the life of students and teachers, and caused a person to receive permanent damage (Bill).
Helping in the assassination of Dumbledore.
Fleeing with the murderer of Dumbledore.
Conspiration on Voldemorts order.

etc.

If he personally cast the curse or if he had somebody else to do it (which I doubt) is for ministry matters totally irrelevant.


__________________

guads random creative moments: Fanart and Fanfiction

Support the True Heroes! Joins Squiddies Army!


BAS DÖSE! More META L than EVER!
  #39  
Old October 26th, 2006, 5:14 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5103 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by guad View Post
IMO it was Draco who imperioused Rosmerta. He was quite willing to use the Crucius on Harry and there wasn't anybody else to help him with it. The DE only got involved in the end, and Snape wasn't in the plan. I estimate that his two helpers Crabbe and Goyle are even more unable to cast an unforgivable on anybody.
I believe that Draco has had some help all along.

First, Draco threatens Borgin in "Draco's Detour" with Greyback. It could be a bluff, of course, but if so it is a stupid one. Draco says:

HBP
"You know Fenrir Greyback? He's a family friend. He'll be dropping in from time to time to make sure you're giving the problem your full attention."


The final threat would be a mistake, if Draco did not have some cooperation from Fenrir. He does need Borgin to cooperate, and if the visits from Fenrir never materialize, Borgin might call the bluff.

Two other indications that Draco is not working alone come in the "Unbreakable Vow" chapter. First, Snape notes that Bella has been teaching Draco Occlumency. I think his guess is right, or Draco would sneeringly contradict it. Bella is, of course, a Death Eater, and Draco appears to have been learning this skill for his assignment. So at the least, Draco has her help (though her status as a highly wanted fugitive naturally limits her degree of involvement. She cannot appear in public.)

And finally, the following exchange between Snape and Draco in the same chapter:

HBP
"You are being incautious, wandering around at night, and if you are placing your reliance in assistants like Crabbe and Goyle-"

"They're not the only ones, I've got other people on my side, better people!"


What/who do you think Draco means by this comment? To me, this means he has some assistance from a Death Eater or Death Eaters outside Hogwarts. And I think this person (or these persons) probably Imperiused Rosmerta, and probably arranged the poisoning of the mead (though I don't doubt this was Draco's idea).

Quote:
The ministry will know by now. Harry told McGonagall and I guess that she has informed the ministry about Dracos involvement. It's no secret at all.
There would remain the issue of duress, I suppose, depending on what else Harry told McGonagall. I'd forgotten this conversation.


Quote:
But it's actually irrelevant for the question. Even if he didn't cast it, there is still enough to throw him rightaway into Azkaban: (I mean, they are letting Stan rott in Azkaban for talking in a bar)
Good point! Though I think Stan will eventually get out, when the political situation changes.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #40  
Old October 26th, 2006, 6:54 pm
guad's Avatar
guad  Undisclosed.gif guad is offline
Mrs Grawp
 
Joined: 5100 days
Location: Rocking with BAS DÖSE
Posts: 3,618
Re: Draco Malfoy: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
What/who do you think Draco means by this comment? To me, this means he has some assistance from a Death Eater or Death Eaters outside Hogwarts.
Borgin and Burkes and the DEs who were going to come into the school. His plan was based from the beginning on the cabinet, meaning on the other cabinet AND on the introducing of other DE in the school. Why else would he go to B&B in the beginning of HBP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
There would remain the issue of duress, I suppose, depending on what else Harry told McGonagall. I'd forgotten this conversation
there are several:

HBP, The phoenix lament, 575-576(McGonnagal) I still don't know how the Death Eaters can possibly have entered...'
'I do,' said Harry and he explained, briefly, about the pair of Vanishing Cabinets and the magical pathway they formed.
(...) 'Anyway,' Ginny went on, 'he must have been checking whether the coast was clear to let the Death Eaters out...
So here he explains that Draco has been plotting all the time to get the DEs into the castle. That's enough for a life long arrest in Azkaban.
HBP, the phoenix lament, 585'There's one thing you should know before the Ministry gets here though. Madam Rosmerta's under the Imperius Curse, she was helping Malfoy and the Death Eaters, that's how the necklace and the poisoned mead-'
Again for the ministry (and for the plot) it is irrelevant if he did the curse personally or if he was part of the plan. It is indeed enough to condemn him.
HBP, the lighting struck tower, 550'Enchanted coins, said Malfo as thought he was compelled to keep talking, though his wand hand was shaking badly. 'I had one and she had the other and I could send her messages.
This is what Harry is going to testify. That Draco gave Rosmerta orders to kill Dumbledore (necklace and mead). It also indicates that the person doing the imperius is the one giving the orders. And this is again enough to condemn him.

Besides not all Unforgivables are the same. Draco is a bully and to order others around to do what he wants looks like something that applys to him. The imperius seems like a curse he could do. It's another thing to kill someone by self.


__________________

guads random creative moments: Fanart and Fanfiction

Support the True Heroes! Joins Squiddies Army!


BAS DÖSE! More META L than EVER!
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Harry Potter Archives > Legilimency Studies

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.