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Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5



View Poll Results: What do you think reflected Sirius' animagus form the most?
His loyalty to his friends. 40 80.00%
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The likelihood of him being in the doghouse (har de dar). 1 2.00%
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  #41  
Old September 14th, 2012, 9:21 am
MsJPotter  Undisclosed.gif MsJPotter is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Perhaps his actions during the war, as well as spending 13 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit, would be enough to get him pardoned for that as well. Or just grant him a license.

That wouldn't be enough to counter however many dead Muggles were left after Peter blew up the street they were on. There was no proof showing Sirius was innocent during GOF and during OOTP Fudge would have cut off his right arm before allowing someone Dumbledore was standing up for a fair trial. After OOTP it was too late for Sirius to get a trial.


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  #42  
Old September 14th, 2012, 1:04 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

But in POA And GOF Dumbledore was still in good standing with Fudge, their relationship didn't start to sour until the end of GOF. If DD had stood up for Sirius, and they'd used all their resources for uncovering the truth (memory viewings, truth serum, etc) they might've been able to clear Sirius. And hearing Sirius' own testimonial for once, instead of just throwing him in jail like last time, might've given them missing pieces of the puzzle (Peter Pettigrew being the Secret Keeper for example). Unless they were willing to believe that a guy who'd been in Azkaban for 13 years was still so super-skilled he could fool EVERYTHING they could throw at him.


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  #43  
Old September 14th, 2012, 2:36 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
But in POA And GOF Dumbledore was still in good standing with Fudge, their relationship didn't start to sour until the end of GOF. If DD had stood up for Sirius, and they'd used all their resources for uncovering the truth (memory viewings, truth serum, etc) they might've been able to clear Sirius. And hearing Sirius' own testimonial for once, instead of just throwing him in jail like last time, might've given them missing pieces of the puzzle (Peter Pettigrew being the Secret Keeper for example). Unless they were willing to believe that a guy who'd been in Azkaban for 13 years was still so super-skilled he could fool EVERYTHING they could throw at him.
We learnt about his innocence at the end of PoA, so there was only one year where Dumbledore could do anything.

Memory viewings and truth serums are not fool proof. I'd imagine that every death eater would have some plans to counter it. The Ministry wouldn't believe what Sirius said, especially because Sirius was supposed to be high ranking. He'd already managed to escape Azkaban which no-one had done before.

The only thing going for Sirius was that Dumbledore believed him, which was a judgement call from Dumbledore in the first place. They'd need more proof than an "I believe him" from Dumbledore.

I think Dumbledore knew very well how the Ministry worked and that is why he decided to let Sirius escape and not try to get justice for him.


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  #44  
Old September 14th, 2012, 3:43 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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But in POA And GOF Dumbledore was still in good standing with Fudge, their relationship didn't start to sour until the end of GOF. If DD had stood up for Sirius, and they'd used all their resources for uncovering the truth (memory viewings, truth serum, etc) they might've been able to clear Sirius. And hearing Sirius' own testimonial for once, instead of just throwing him in jail like last time, might've given them missing pieces of the puzzle (Peter Pettigrew being the Secret Keeper for example). Unless they were willing to believe that a guy who'd been in Azkaban for 13 years was still so super-skilled he could fool EVERYTHING they could throw at him.
We don't meet Sirius till practically the end of POA, then he escapes and the school year ends. It's not specified in GOF if Dumbledore is working to clear Sirius' name or not. I think he was, but there's no proof either way. To clear Sirius they needed one man and that man was Pettigrew. He wasn't available, he was with Voldemort and Barty Crouch Jr. Dumbledore would have needed either Sirius or Pettigrew and somehow I can't see Sirius being that eager to turn himself over to the tender mercies of the MOM after his last encounter with them. Dumbledore was a very clever man but he couldn't force Sirius to trust that he would get justice the second time around.


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  #45  
Old September 15th, 2012, 11:43 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

In OotP Dumbledore was busy with the order and Voldemort having come back so there would have been other things on his mind than Sirius.


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  #46  
Old September 16th, 2012, 8:48 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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We don't meet Sirius till practically the end of POA, then he escapes and the school year ends. It's not specified in GOF if Dumbledore is working to clear Sirius' name or not. I think he was, but there's no proof either way. To clear Sirius they needed one man and that man was Pettigrew. He wasn't available, he was with Voldemort and Barty Crouch Jr. Dumbledore would have needed either Sirius or Pettigrew and somehow I can't see Sirius being that eager to turn himself over to the tender mercies of the MOM after his last encounter with them. Dumbledore was a very clever man but he couldn't force Sirius to trust that he would get justice the second time around.
I think Sirius would have been a fool to take that risk. They had a Minister who was too proud and fond of power to admit that he had made a mistake. Plus, they had Lucius Malfoy whispering in the Minister's ear and influencing his decisions. As you say, they needed Pettigrew. And without Pettigrew, Sirius turning himself over to the Ministry would undoubtedly have ended in a fate worse than death. I think Dumbledore knew that, too, and wouldn't have tried to persuade Sirius to turn himself in.


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  #47  
Old September 17th, 2012, 4:10 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Poor Padfoot! I wonder if there is anyone on this site who could take him in. Find out about Berry.

Not sure where else I could have posted this . . .


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  #48  
Old September 22nd, 2012, 8:23 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I would have preferred that the confrontation between Harry and Sirius (because a collision occurs in the chapter “Kreacher’s tale” and in the chapter “the Bribe”) had happened when Sirius was alive. I wished that Harry had faced his godfather and he had told him what he had, as he did with Remus. I would have appreciated it and I would have said that Harry loves Sirius. But so ... Harry seems a coward who can declare what he thinks and feels for someone only if he hasn't that person in front.
Maybe if he had told him what he thought about him, Sirius wouldn't have died, perhaps for the sake of his godson he would treated Kreacher kindly, if Harry had asked him to do so.


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  #49  
Old September 27th, 2012, 7:46 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by Verena View Post
Maybe if he had told him what he thought about him, Sirius wouldn't have died, perhaps for the sake of his godson he would treated Kreacher kindly, if Harry had asked him to do so.
I don't think Sirius treated Kreacher unkindly. Mostly, he tolerated Kreacher despite the latter's insolence. Dobby woulldn't have gotten away with a tenth of what Kreacher got away with. Sirius never abused Kreacher the way Lucius Malfoy abused Dobby.


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  #50  
Old September 27th, 2012, 1:46 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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I don't think Sirius treated Kreacher unkindly. Mostly, he tolerated Kreacher despite the latter's insolence. Dobby woulldn't have gotten away with a tenth of what Kreacher got away with. Sirius never abused Kreacher the way Lucius Malfoy abused Dobby.
But I think the same thing. I'm agree with you.
But ... unfortunately canon is that Sirius treated Kreacher badly, even if it's a “strange canon”, because in the books there is no evidence to prove this. I've never read Sirius who beats Kreacher, who keeps him in chains without food or water, or that he tortures him or other things like these. I think, rather, Kreacher abused Sirius. I've never been in agreement that Kreacher has feelings as acute as a humans, because he has never felt remorse for what he did (to be the cause of Sirius’s death) and he never felt sorry for Sirius. Hermione says that Sirius was horrible to Kreacher, but I think that she and Harry were horrible to Sirius, especially Harry that has really disappointed me by the way in which he condemned Sirius who has practically become a person who abuses of house elves and who has deservedly paid for his faults. Honestly, after reading DH, I consider overreacted Harry's behavior in Dumbledore's office after Sirius’s death, in OotP, considering how he behaves towards Sirius in DH.
And I'm sorry to say this: I liked very much Hermione in GoF, and Harry has always been my favorite character. It’s still so, but not like before. This episode puts him in a bad light and I value him differently.



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  #51  
Old September 27th, 2012, 4:03 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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I've never been in agreement that Kreacher has feelings as acute as a humans, because he has never felt remorse for what he did (to be the cause of Sirius’s death) and he never felt sorry for Sirius.
Responded to in the Kreacher thread.


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  #52  
Old September 27th, 2012, 10:57 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I think when they say Sirius was horrible to Kreacher they meant that he was never kind like how Hermione would always be kind to him rather than get upset and retaliate like the others especially when he calls her a mudblood. Sirius insults Kreacher and Hermione seems to be upset with that. Sirus never attempted to be kind to Kreacher but he never abused Kreacher.

Kreacher was a part of Sirius' childhood and worshipped Sirius' mother. Walburga Black despised Sirius and so Kreacher hated Sirius. Kreacher was never kind to Sirius because it was all he knew from being around Walburga. However, it is very difficult to be kind to someone who is horrible to you. Thus I never really thought ill of Sirius for not liking Kreacher since he was was also unkind.


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  #53  
Old December 3rd, 2012, 10:43 pm
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I was looking through an old Sirius Character Analysis thread and a topic came up that I thought was interesting. The argument was that Sirius inherited Grimmauld Place after Orion died so why didn't he kick out his mom out of the house (which he would have inherited a few years before Azkaban)? But since the thread was closed, I'll post my idea here.

A lot of people now believe that Grimmauld place was Walburga's house because it is called Sirius's mother's house and that could mean she grew up there. But we know that house inheritance tradition shows that the house passes onto the next male in the Black line. So why would it be called Walburga's house?

Well, it's only referred to as her house; it's never stated that she owns it. I think it's referred to as her house because she had control over the household so it was considered her house (when it really was Orion's house). That's just a thought. Sirius mentions that Grimmauld Place is his parent's house as well as referring it as his mother's house. I think the reason he refers to it as that is because he really despises her and he connects the house to her. Also, I know Snape mocks Sirius for hiding in his "mother's house" but I think he uses that phrase just to add to the insult (it sounds more rude that way, if you know what I mean). Which is why I would infer the house belongs to Orion.

So building on that, I would think that after Orion died the house could have gone on to Sirius because he was the next male. But assuming Regulus died before Orion (we don't know how Orion died; it's possible his son's death caused his own) Orion may have realized the house would go to Sirius so he had his will give the house to Walburga (we know Sirius was able to do that for Harry). Than Walburga would have had the house and their would be no reason for Sirius to kick her out of it since he didn't own it until she died (and she died while he was in Azkaban).

It's possible Walburga assumed her husband had changed the house inheritance permanently and the house would go on to Bellatrix after her death, not Sirius. Or she may have gone too crazy at that point in her life to make a will or something. That could be a reason as to why the house may have passed onto Sirius when it's unlikely Walburga would have wanted that to happen.

On a side note, if the house really was Orion's and Orion died before Regulus than would Regulus have inherited it? I feel that the Blacks would have taken the whole house inheritance of 'next male in the line of Black' seriously and realized Sirius would have gotten the house so they may have prevented it from falling into Sirius's hands. Instead, Regulus would have gotten the house after his father's death. But we know Regulus changed before he died, so did he allow the house to pass onto Sirius on purpose? He was of age when he died so he could have made a will or something (especially since he knew he was going to die;a will would have been a reasonable idea.) I'm just speculating.

This post was just random; I felt I needed to say my opinion on this matter. I know it's a shaky theory but yeah, that's all.


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  #54  
Old December 4th, 2012, 6:30 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
I was looking through an old Sirius Character Analysis thread and a topic came up that I thought was interesting. The argument was that Sirius inherited Grimmauld Place after Orion died so why didn't he kick out his mom out of the house (which he would have inherited a few years before Azkaban)? But since the thread was closed, I'll post my idea here.
I think it was made quite clear in OotP that Sirius had no interest in Grimmauld Palace at all and even if he did inherit the house after his fathers death he would have no real reason to go back there.

What I personally think could have happened is - When Sirius first ran away, Orion must have immediately disowned him and made up a new will that passed everything onto Regulus instead of Sirius and while we are not sure who died first (Orion or Regulus) I don't think Orion ever got around to changing the will again. To summarize, I think Sirius gained ownership of Grimmauld Place as soon as Regulus/Orion died but until he actually needed the place he never thought about it and even then I reckon it was the thought of his house being filled with mudbloods, blood traitors and half breeds galore that prompted him to use the house


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  #55  
Old March 3rd, 2013, 9:28 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I think that Sirius along with James has quite a wierd streak in his character. His beliefs changed from pure blood supremacist to anti-pure blood supremesist in a matter of minutes of meeting James. Yet he never turned back and like James he was obseesed in Severus Snape when Snape wasn't even doing anything to them. Sirius along with James were willing to have Peter in his group but not anyone else but the 4. Sirius's attempt to get Snape into the shreaking Shack was as wild as he got pre-Azkaban. He didn't really stop James from being like he was either.

In some ways I feel that Sirius has got quite a lot of simmilarities with Severus Snape. They both have obssesive relations with particular people; both have ones of obsessive love (sirius and James, Severus and Lilly) and both have ones of obssesive hate (with each other, Sirius with Kreacher).

Talking about Sirius and Kreacher, I feel that they also have the obsessive relationships in common. Kreacher loved Regulus like Sirius Loved James and they both hated each other like Sirius and Severus hated each other.


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  #56  
Old March 3rd, 2013, 2:37 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan View Post
I think that Sirius along with James has quite a wierd streak in his character. His beliefs changed from pure blood supremacist to anti-pure blood supremesist in a matter of minutes of meeting James.

Sirius' beliefs did not change within minutes of meeting James. He was already unhappy about his family when he and James met on the train. Sirius was close to his cousin Andromeda - if she had been dosowned by this point, and had been the focus of trash-talk from his mother, then I can see where Sirius would have the starting point of objecting to his family.

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Yet he never turned back and like James he was obseesed in Severus Snape when Snape wasn't even doing anything to them.
I don't think there is anything in canon to say that Sirius was obsessed with Snape. Sirius had a lot of interests in his life and did not spend all his waking hours thinking about Snape. If anyone was obsessed, it was the boy sneaking around, determined to find dirt on his rivals and get them expelled.

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Sirius along with James were willing to have Peter in his group but not anyone else but the 4.
What is wrong with that? A lot of people have a small group of close friends. It does not mean they exclude others, it means there is just a small group with whom they are closest. Harry had Ron and Hermione, but no others- does that mean he excluded others from their group? No, IMO, because they did have other friends. That was just the group they were closest to. I very much doubt they would have been considered popular if they socialised only within their own small group.

And for the Marauders, protecting Remus' secret would have been a priority when they were talking to other friends.

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In some ways I feel that Sirius has got quite a lot of simmilarities with Severus Snape. They both have obssesive relations with particular people; both have ones of obsessive love (sirius and James, Severus and Lilly) and both have ones of obssesive hate (with each other, Sirius with Kreacher).
I would draw a distinction between Sirius' love for James and Snape's obsession with Lily. Sirius accepted that James was happy with Lily, that James loved his son. Sirius wanted to protect Harry, and would never have dreamed of trading Harry's life for James'. For one thing, he would know that James would despise and loathe him for doing something like that. And for another, he wanted to keep the whole family safe. Sirius' love for James was one that took into account James' feelings, which makes it vastly different, IMO. Sirius' love for his friend was not to the exclusion and the detriment of the lives of others. Sirius was able to love his friend without dismissing the lives of innocents as irrelevant.


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  #57  
Old March 3rd, 2013, 4:06 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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I think that Sirius along with James has quite a wierd streak in his character. His beliefs changed from pure blood supremacist to anti-pure blood supremesist in a matter of minutes of meeting James.
Why do you think this, though? I was under the impression that Sirius always had a hatred for his family's beliefs. I understand that when they met they were probably trying to make friends etc, but I don't understand why someone would just *clicks fingers* switch their own beliefs for a total stranger? Maybe weaker person, like Pettigrew, would do something like that to gain popularity, or whatever, but Sirius strikes me as a person who would make up their own mind about things. I really think that Sirius went to Hogwarts wanting to be in any other house but Slytherin. He says to James that he was hoping to break that tradition. So... In conclusion, I don't think his beliefs changed in that moment on the train. I think he always hated the way his parents viewed 'blood-status'...


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  #58  
Old March 3rd, 2013, 8:30 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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His beliefs changed from pure blood supremacist to anti-pure blood supremesist in a matter of minutes of meeting James.
Not really. He did not like anything about his family. If the Blacks spoke about pureblood supremacy at home, I think Sirius would have been against it if only to rebel against them.

Sirius was, IMO, a 'darker' character than James. I think he had slytherin-y tendencies and would have been willing to do things that James wouldn't. I wonder how his relationship with James might have been if they had lived for a good bit of time during the war.


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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:02 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Sirius was, IMO, a 'darker' character than James. I think he had slytherin-y tendencies and would have been willing to do things that James wouldn't. I wonder how his relationship with James might have been if they had lived for a good bit of time during the war.
I agree with you on that, in my opinion, he was most certainly 'darker'. But, I am unsure if it was due to him being willing to do things that James wouldn't. I'd say it was because he had a harder home life. He was obviously disliked by his family, for not believing that those of 'pure-blood' were better than any other, whereas James was clearly well loved.

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And I have always been inclined to believe that (though, this is most certainly a generalisation, and is not true in every case...) it is always easier to be 'lighter', more easy going, when you've been treated well as a child. I think that Sirius had all the values of a true Gryffindor, and wouldn't, as the sorting hat says, use any means to achieve his ends... Also, when we meet Sirius, he has been locked in Azkaban - wrongly - for many years, so, naturally, he would be darker, and more damaged than James ever would have been.


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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:14 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by RegulusBlackFan View Post
I think that Sirius along with James has quite a wierd streak in his character. His beliefs changed from pure blood supremacist to anti-pure blood supremesist in a matter of minutes of meeting James.

Not only do I just patently disagree that Sirius changed his entire belief system because he met and liked James, I would go even further and say that willing yourself to change your beliefs in "a matter of minutes" is impossible. You can't just arbitrarily decide to change what you believe, making a change like that takes a lot of time and investigation and a lot of, for lack of a better way to say it, self-convincing. You can, for instance, tell yourself repeatedly and over a long period of time that blood prejudice is wrong when you've grown up believing it was okay, and you might eventually adopt your new mantra as a true belief that supplants the old one, but that takes serious time and effort and doesn't happen in a matter of minutes after meeting someone. And if appeared as though Sirius did have a turn on a dime moment like that I would say that it was because he already held the beliefs that blood prejudice was wrong but had never vocalized them to his family and NOT that his entire belief system was thrown out the window because he met some kid he thought was cool on the train.

I agree with Wolfbrother that Sirius was a much darker character than James. I rather see Sirius and Snape as very similar in some ways, both were balancing on the knife edge of their natures. Sirius, to me, could have been one of those people who, with one wrong step, could have fallen into very dark and destructive patterns if it weren't for, it seems, James being there as a positive influence. (Much like how Snape followed that dark and destructive path after his friendship with Lily ended.)

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Originally Posted by TheShley View Post
Also, when we meet Sirius, he has been locked in Azkaban - wrongly - for many years, so, naturally, he would be darker, and more damaged than James ever would have been.
I don't think it was just Azkaban that left Sirius as such a dark character, I see a lot of his troubled family life contributing to his darkness and that certainly would have played a role in his life in his youth, not just after he was released from Azkaban (Dude, that word is hard to type without looking at the keyboard... ) Sirius's life was no bed of roses.


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