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The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3



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  #81  
Old January 11th, 2009, 1:44 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

well, i would've liked it if she had ended withanother battle instead


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  #82  
Old January 11th, 2009, 6:05 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

But how would that have been possible when you look at what was going on? The Cullens had amassed this huge group of witnesses with formidable powers; the Volturi were not going to just go at it without pause. Also, it was clear since New Moon that Bella's power was pretty serious - Aro acknowledged that from the beginning. That was always going to be key. Add that to the fact that the Cullens really have a lot of respect for the Volturi, and don't want to destroy them either. I don't see a battle as really plausible with all of this.


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Old January 11th, 2009, 9:26 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk View Post
i was trying to think of how Meyer could have changed the end of BD so that it was more final and I really couldn't think of anything. What should she have done differently, specifically?
The battle should have happened. There should have been casualties. Bella's power should have unfolded once Edward was in dire straits, not right at the beginning. The whole thing was really anticlimactic. As it is, the conflict is still unresolved. The Volturi continue to be a threat and how could they forget how close they came to losing their unique status of power?


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  #84  
Old January 11th, 2009, 2:44 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk View Post
But how would that have been possible when you look at what was going on? The Cullens had amassed this huge group of witnesses with formidable powers; the Volturi were not going to just go at it without pause. Also, it was clear since New Moon that Bella's power was pretty serious - Aro acknowledged that from the beginning. That was always going to be key. Add that to the fact that the Cullens really have a lot of respect for the Volturi, and don't want to destroy them either. I don't see a battle as really plausible with all of this.
Even if the final un-battle was left as it is in the book, there should have been another conflict to resolve the Volturi issue - have them either dethroned or destroyed completely - by the end. That's the part that's left hanging that really bugs me.


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  #85  
Old January 11th, 2009, 4:11 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk View Post
But how would that have been possible when you look at what was going on? The Cullens had amassed this huge group of witnesses with formidable powers; the Volturi were not going to just go at it without pause. Also, it was clear since New Moon that Bella's power was pretty serious - Aro acknowledged that from the beginning. That was always going to be key. Add that to the fact that the Cullens really have a lot of respect for the Volturi, and don't want to destroy them either. I don't see a battle as really plausible with all of this.
Although I agree with Moriaththat there should've been a battle, there are ways to dethrone without one, but it doesn't happen. I really don't care what happens, as long as there is a resolution and I feel that a battle would be the best way to do it. And there is still a way to do a battle

My thoughts (this isn't perfect, but it's still way better than what Meyer did IMO): what if the Volturi, power hungry as always, decided that they wanted to destroy the vampires with the powers to stabilize themselves? A group of them try to go after Bella first, because they are afraid of what she could do and she attempts to make a shield, but instead of being so perfect like in Meyer's battle, she really has to struggle with it and it wavers at times. I hate how little she struggled once it was up and just how perfect her power was. But after a good bit of battling, and possibly a few deaths on both sides, Bella can finally manage to stabilize her shield and the "good vamps" could capture the volturi and say something about how they'll be killed if they struggle or whatever like they did to that newborn vamp in Eclipse. Then maybe since the Romanian vamps would have to touch Aro to trap him, he gives some random creepy vampy speech about how he sees into their minds and whatever and they get angry and kill him and tell the other Volturi to give up their power or else.

Then Meyer can write up a nice sweet little Epilogue about how Bella and Edward live happily ever after, blah blah blah, and maybe say how the Volturi do go back to bother them but in small numbers and by the time they do Bella has become good enough with her power to stop them blah blah blah the end

Ok, i'm sure someone else could write a better ending than that but i'd still rather read that than Meyer. She needs to learn the difference between anti climatic and predictable


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  #86  
Old January 13th, 2009, 2:16 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Charline81 View Post
I was reading the pregnancy topic on the other thread, and I started thinking the other day about a few things *possible spoilers*
Ok on the subject of Imprinting, they have talked about it being a way to find a mate to pass on the shifter gene, Leah talks about how her body isn't right, if it was Sam would have Imprinted on her and Jacob asks something about if she thinks she'll ever Imprint on someone, and she goes onto say shes menopause and couldn't carry on the gene and so on.
So from what is in the book and things that SM has said, it seems that fertility and ability to produce children who will carry on the shifter gene is the main reason for Imprinting.
Now we go onto the facts SM stated that Female Vampires cannot become pregnant, due to the fact they are frozen in time, their bodies do not change and their body needs to change in order to have children, men do not change they can have children when they are 98 years old, ok so I can some what see all this, but heres where a major plot hole comes into play...
Nessie will grow for 7 years, after 7 years sge will stop growing, she is immortal. Nahuel is described as being a young man, and hes older than Edward.
So if after 7 years Nessie is a "full grown" young woman, her body will stop aging, she like her mother and the rest of the females will be frozen in time.
Obviously after 7 years her body will be frozen in time, she will be a young woman for eternity, just like the Female vampires, again they can not become pregnant because their bodies are frozen in time, they do not change, so this would logically mean that Nessie will not be able to become pregnant as her body will not change after 7 years, and yet Jacob Imprinted on Nessie.
My friend and I agree that its a pretty noticeable plot hole.
hmmm...i wouldn't have thought of that. i'm not sure nessie won't be able to. she has blood, and therefore a heart beat. Nahuel has a heart beat and he's full grown. Interesting point...

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Originally Posted by LilyLunaPotter View Post
She could... but I honestly doubt Edward and Bells letting her. I mean remember how Bells flipped when she found out Jake had imprinted on Nessie? I dont think they're going to want Nessie to have a baby. It would take immense pleading to *maybe* convince them.

But then again, she could do a Bells and have a baby without her parents knowing.


Nessie and Jake have eternity to do whatever they want to -if we think that Renesmee will be able to reproduce- they'll have plenty of time to have a real romance, and then think about kids. I think that what probably would've bothered Bella was the idea of Jake imprinting on her baby girl. Once Nessie is a full grown woman, the idea -mixed with the endless years aspect- i think it would be something she'd be used to...
Also might i point out that you can't exactly hide anything from Edward. He'd know her thoughts, and as soon as our figurative baby had thoughts like Nessie had, he would hear that too.
..what kind of twisted hybrid would that be? Shape-shifter mixed with hybrid vamp-human? holy crow! weird thought!!!
hmm...question - if Nessie is supposed to take seven years to be "full grown" will she look older than her eighteen -almost nineteen- year old mother?

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Originally Posted by snowytheduhawk View Post

Remember that blood brings food and oxygen to cells and carries away waste. If Renesmee's body uses blood, it can only mean that her cells process food into waste, thus changing. Now, the reason that we age is that our cells have a maximum number for multiplication. Each cell will only split so many times before it quits. An elderly person's heart gives out because the cells stop splitting, so there are no new ones to replace the dying. The process from infancy to adulthood is not aging, but progression - cell multiplication is higher than cell death. Aging is decline. What happens to Renesmee is only progression, but decline is impossible for her. Why? Probably because her cells keep splitting and reproducing forever. The old cells die, but they never stop splitting. I think that means her body changes, so I think she'll menstruate forever.
Although your point is perfect for our "yes nessie can reproduce" bit, i have to say that your last line...would suck. An eternity of cramps and crabbiness...poor jake.

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Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
that's an amazing theory, but the problem is that what about vampires? do their cells never age and die or split? if that was true, then they wouldn't need blood, but they and nessie do. Also, Nessie is supposed to become very similar to a vampire once she grows enough, she's supposed to become frozen in time. Actually, scratch that, I think we should compare Nessie to werewolves. ok, even if we did that, vampires would be the odd one out.
twilight vampires don't have blood. they have venom as a kind of replacement, and i think that's just so that their cells can move, and they're not total rocks...

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Originally Posted by Caliope View Post
.

I believe I'm on the 'well she's part human, so maybe it's possible' side of the fence with this. Technically, she's the ultimate fantasy creature with all the 'best' qualities of being a vampire and being a human. Knowing SM, I bet being able to bear children is part of that equation.

(I also disagree about Bella being the ideal girl, hehe - Alice pwns her left, right and center. She can decorate and accessorize like a pro, she can kick butt in battle, and she doesn't whine about not being able to have children with Jasper - who is the ideal male, surely.)
i agree with everything her Caliope =p

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
As it is, the conflict is still unresolved. The Volturi continue to be a threat and how could they forget how close they came to losing their unique status of power?
Not just that- but the vamps that watched will have lost some of the fear of the Volturi that allowed them to hold power. fear is key to minipulating anyone.


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Jasper smiled down at her. "You held out your hand, and i took it without stopping to make sense of what i was doing. For the first time in almost a century, i felt hope." (page 301 Eclipse Stephenie Meyer



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  #87  
Old January 13th, 2009, 8:07 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I haven't read the last book but I know what happens in it and I was wondering something. If Jacob imprinted on Nessie, if they're 'meant to be', and she is a vampire and he isn't, isn't she going to be pretty upset when he dies? Does that mean she has to spend the rest of her life alone?


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  #88  
Old January 13th, 2009, 1:55 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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I haven't read the last book but I know what happens in it and I was wondering something. If Jacob imprinted on Nessie, if they're 'meant to be', and she is a vampire and he isn't, isn't she going to be pretty upset when he dies? Does that mean she has to spend the rest of her life alone?

i think that as long as Jacob keeps turning into a werewolf, he doesn't age.

but this just reminded me about, what i think is, the worst cop-out of the book. they were all worried about Nessie aging too rapidly, and then that guy who is the same as her (can't remember his name) is like, "you get to this age then stop aging". the convienence of that answer is so annoying, just another way things just fall into place for Bella's happily ever after.


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  #89  
Old January 13th, 2009, 4:02 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^Yeah, I also don't like the fact that most of SM's fantasy creatures don't have any inconveniences or weaknesses. The vampires can do out in daylight, can't be harmed by silver or stakes or garlic or crosses, and are fast and strong and beautiful without exception. The half-breeds age rapidly, but conveniently stop at the 'pretty' post-adolescent phase and stay there forever. The werewolves seem more or less on par with traditional fantasy creatures - they heal quickly, age very slowly, but they aren't immortal and they can harmed physically. Also the hive-mind of the pack makes privacy impossible, and the imprinting thing takes away free will.

So to answer your question, Rebel - I think the scenario you've come up with is possible. I doubt SM considered it, and I don't think she'll ever write it, but it is plausible for Jake to die and for Nessie to be left alone.


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  #90  
Old January 13th, 2009, 9:44 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Hermi0nechik92 View Post
twilight vampires don't have blood. they have venom as a kind of replacement, and i think that's just so that their cells can move, and they're not total rocks...
I know, but i'm just saying it doesn't seem like Twilight vamps really need blood and they can't be starved to death.


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Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
i think that as long as Jacob keeps turning into a werewolf, he doesn't age.

but this just reminded me about, what i think is, the worst cop-out of the book. they were all worried about Nessie aging too rapidly, and then that guy who is the same as her (can't remember his name) is like, "you get to this age then stop aging". the convienence of that answer is so annoying, just another way things just fall into place for Bella's happily ever after.
I know seriously... But at least it's one of the few things that happen to Jake that are actually good....

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Originally Posted by Caliope View Post
^Yeah, I also don't like the fact that most of SM's fantasy creatures don't have any inconveniences or weaknesses. The vampires can do out in daylight, can't be harmed by silver or stakes or garlic or crosses, and are fast and strong and beautiful without exception. The half-breeds age rapidly, but conveniently stop at the 'pretty' post-adolescent phase and stay there forever. The werewolves seem more or less on par with traditional fantasy creatures - they heal quickly, age very slowly, but they aren't immortal and they can harmed physically. Also the hive-mind of the pack makes privacy impossible, and the imprinting thing takes away free will.
I like the werewolves way better....it's so annoying how perfect the vamps are. Couldn't they have at least one weakness humans could exploit (I mean a regular human, not a pack of wolves)


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  #91  
Old January 13th, 2009, 11:52 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

I'm gonna have to agree with the perfect vampire complaints, because it kinda miffs me that the Meyerpires are totally invincible against everything but "shapeshifters" (don't even get me started on that) and other Meyerpires. Every other vampire book/show/movie has at least a few weaknesses with their vampires. Not only are Smeyer's vamps invincible, they're all totally beautiful, so it's an all-around perfect thing.
The real issue I take with the perfect looking part of the Meyerpires is that none of the 'good' vamps are even remotely plain, only some of the bad ones are, like James and the old Volturi guys, and it didn't make sense. In the meadow scene Edward said something about how one of the reasons he's a perfect predator is because his prey is physically attracted to him, but then that part didn't apply to all of them, and I jus didn't understand it.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 1:57 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

i do remember one of the Volturi who Bella said was as beautiful as Rosalie and I think Victoria (i think that was her name?) was scary but beautiful. Something like feline beauty i think.

And yeah I agree, it's such an annoying cliche. ok....if I suddenly decide that i'm going to turn evil, or well,more evil, and go out and kill random people and torture and whatever, i will not suddenly become extremely ugly. and speaking from personal experience, i used to be WAY more innocent and nice and all that, and I'm actually prettier now. (At least I think so , I was just cute back then, but still relatively plain, still am, but not as plain) well, you get my point.


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  #93  
Old January 14th, 2009, 4:42 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

^Hm. Now that is an interesting point. There's a Raold Dahl book called 'The Twits' that has a chapter about how, if a person is physically attractive on the outside but evil or hateful on the inside, eventually that inner ugliness will come through. So there's a way to portray that without being totally superficial. I think the way Aro is described in New Moon is a decent example of that:
Quote:
I couldn't decide if his face was beautiful or not. I suppose the features were perfect. But he was as different from the vampires beside him as they were from me. His skin was translucently white, like onionskin, and it looked just as delicate--it stood in shocking contrast to the long black hair that framed his face. I felt a strange, horrifying desire to touch his cheek, to see if it was softer than Edward's or Alice's, or if it was powerdy, like chalk.
Aro may or may not be physically attractive--Bella can't decide. The point is her perception of him is overwhelmed by strangeness and horror, so she can't see him as beautiful. Unlike all the Cullens, whom she adores, so she talks about how lovely they are all the time. It's a superficial and poorly drawn example of the same idea, but I can understand that to a certain extent.

That's why I like Jake's narration in BD--he doesn't have those The Cullens Are So Pretty And Awesome blinders on that keeps Bella from getting deeper in their characters.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 6:55 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

*carefully avoids spoilers*

I saw the movie a week ago and loved it and now I'm reading the book; loving it even more. I never thought I'd see the day I'd read a romance novel...though I admit I probably wouldn't have gone near it if it hadn't been for the whole vampire lement to it. I'll return to post my thoughts when I'm finished with the book. I'm up to chapter 15. And then I'll have to seek out the other books too.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 8:32 am
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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That's why I like Jake's narration in BD--he doesn't have those The Cullens Are So Pretty And Awesome blinders on that keeps Bella from getting deeper in their characters.
But that's part of the problem because throught Jacob's point of view we learn that there is no depth to the Cullens' characters. Rosalie, who could have been so much more after Eclipse, turns out to be as shallow as she always appeared to be. With Bella, we could still hope that she just couldn't look past the beautiful exterior.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 2:16 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

The thing about Steph's characters are that they are so...stereotypical. I mean, Rosalie is the cheerleader, Emmet's the jock. Enough said about Bella and Edward. Jaz and Alice are probably the least stereotypical characters.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 3:14 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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I'm gonna have to agree with the perfect vampire complaints, because it kinda miffs me that the Meyerpires are totally invincible against everything but "shapeshifters" (don't even get me started on that) and other Meyerpires. Every other vampire book/show/movie has at least a few weaknesses with their vampires. Not only are Smeyer's vamps invincible, they're all totally beautiful, so it's an all-around perfect thing.
The real issue I take with the perfect looking part of the Meyerpires is that none of the 'good' vamps are even remotely plain, only some of the bad ones are, like James and the old Volturi guys, and it didn't make sense. In the meadow scene Edward said something about how one of the reasons he's a perfect predator is because his prey is physically attracted to him, but then that part didn't apply to all of them, and I jus didn't understand it.
that is a good point. vampires are supposed to by very physically pleasing to humans, to draw them in ect. But all the vampires who are mean to Bella, and all the humans too, are described as ugly/not as good looking. Like your example of James and the Volturi, they were mean to Bella and are therefore ugly. Also Jasper, i can't remember the exact point, was mean to Bella, and when she becomes a vampire she notices that he is covered in scars = ugly.

It would make more sense if all the vampires were beautiful, at least then that part would be consistent.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 5:19 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
But that's part of the problem because throught Jacob's point of view we learn that there is no depth to the Cullens' characters. Rosalie, who could have been so much more after Eclipse, turns out to be as shallow as she always appeared to be. With Bella, we could still hope that she just couldn't look past the beautiful exterior.
And this was a surprise to you? Even with the disappointment in Rosalie, I found Jake's stubborn refusal to sugar-coat all the Cullens refreshing.

Rebel: When was Jasper mean to Bella? And I kinda thought his scars were sexy.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 6:42 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

That's why Jacob was my favorite character, because he was so up front about what he thought about the Cullens and Bella's attachment to them. Even when I still liked the series I appreciated his dislike of the Cullens, because it was so relatable in comparison to Bella's continued 'the Cullens are awesome!' after they left in NM.
But then alas, he became the victim of the worst plot twist I've ever read in a book and became kinda boring and one dimensional like everyone else.


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Old January 14th, 2009, 7:58 pm
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Re: The Twilight series by Stephenie Meyer v.3

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Rebel: When was Jasper mean to Bella? And I kinda thought his scars were sexy.
well, when it wasn't his fault when Bella's finger got cut in NM. and I always got the impression he was never in love with Bella the way Edward, Alice, Carlisle and Esme were. He certainly didn't hate her, but he didn't go out of his way for her.

while I agree with you that his scars imply sexiness and danger, I don't think Bella saw it that way. To me it seemed like she thought he looked like Mad-Eye Moody.

Maybe that argument is kind of weak, since Rosealie was never nice to Bella and she is always described as beautiful. Who knows.


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