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Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4



 
 
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  #1001  
Old March 23rd, 2012, 8:48 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
He said that they "might" not be able to get at him. So there's still some wiggle room.
In context, that is more of a turn of phrase. I don't think there is any wiggle room.

It's like me saying "I might not have gotten an A on that test, but at least I passed," even if I already know for sure that I didn't get an A.


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  #1002  
Old March 23rd, 2012, 11:51 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

So, you do think that the Blood Wards would've been strong enough to keep ANY damage from occurring to the House?

I thought it would've been a clever plot point if one of the DE's just decided to burn the place down with matches, crash a truck into it or blow it up with a gas mane explosion because the Wards could only protect from magic.


  #1003  
Old March 24th, 2012, 2:24 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
So, you do think that the Blood Wards would've been strong enough to keep ANY damage from occurring to the House?

I thought it would've been a clever plot point if one of the DE's just decided to burn the place down with matches, crash a truck into it or blow it up with a gas mane explosion because the Wards could only protect from magic.
In a word, yes. The series would largely not make sense if the house could be blown up by Muggle methods.


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  #1004  
Old March 24th, 2012, 2:30 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Too bad no one mentioned that to the Dursleys then, they'd be somewhat happy that their home was more or less indestructible thanks to Harry.


  #1005  
Old March 24th, 2012, 4:34 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Too bad no one mentioned that to the Dursleys then, they'd be somewhat happy that their home was more or less indestructible thanks to Harry.
Well, I don't think that applies to anyone. The protection seems to operate against anyone working towards Voldemort's ends. The mailman could still get to their front door, though.


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  #1006  
Old March 24th, 2012, 4:56 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

So, if a DE imperiused a Muggle into crashing their car into the house or lighting it on fire, would the Wards cancel out the Curse or just keep the car from impacting/fire from burning? Or would they do nothing to a controlled Muggle?


  #1007  
Old March 24th, 2012, 3:58 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I don't think that the house was indestructible. IMO it could get damaged but you couldn't cause so much damage that it would result in its inhabitants getting hurt. So IMO you could drive a car through the door but you wouldn't be able to use it hurt someone inside. Part of the house could catch fire but it wouldn't result in the whole house burning down or someone inside getting burnt. At a particular stage, the magical protection would kick in.


  #1008  
Old March 24th, 2012, 5:47 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
I don't think that the house was indestructible. IMO it could get damaged but you couldn't cause so much damage that it would result in its inhabitants getting hurt. So IMO you could drive a car through the door but you wouldn't be able to use it hurt someone inside. Part of the house could catch fire but it wouldn't result in the whole house burning down or someone inside getting burnt. At a particular stage, the magical protection would kick in.
Yeah, that sounds likely. We don't really have much to go on. All we have is that there was no way, whatsoever, that Voldemort, or anyone working for Voldemort, or anyone being coerced by Voldemort, or anyone being coerced by someone working for Voldemort, could in any way cause harm to Harry while he was at home in Privet Dr. What the cause for that is is still up in the air.


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  #1009  
Old March 24th, 2012, 6:26 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Yeah, that sounds likely. We don't really have much to go on. All we have is that there was no way, whatsoever, that Voldemort, or anyone working for Voldemort, or anyone being coerced by Voldemort, or anyone being coerced by someone working for Voldemort, could in any way cause harm to Harry while he was at home in Privet Dr. What the cause for that is is still up in the air.
Would you clarify what you mean when you say the 'cause for that is still up in the air'?


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  #1010  
Old March 24th, 2012, 6:41 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Would you clarify what you mean when you say the 'cause for that is still up in the air'?
I mean, was it because no one would be able to find the place (similarly to the Fidelius Charm), was it because they could find it if they tried, but wouldn't be able to affect it, or was it because they could find it and damage it, but never so much as to affect Harry?


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  #1011  
Old March 24th, 2012, 8:29 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I mean, was it because no one would be able to find the place (similarly to the Fidelius Charm), was it because they could find it if they tried, but wouldn't be able to affect it, or was it because they could find it and damage it, but never so much as to affect Harry?
I thought it was because of the charm Dumbledore used to extend Lily's sacrifice protection, using the fact that Harry would be living "where his mother's blood dwells" through Petunia, the only living relative of Harry's solely from his mother's bloodline.


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  #1012  
Old March 24th, 2012, 8:49 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
I thought it was because of the charm Dumbledore used to extend Lily's sacrifice protection, using the fact that Harry would be living "where his mother's blood dwells" through Petunia, the only living relative of Harry's solely from his mother's bloodline.
It is, yes, but what I was talking about was exactly how that protection worked- exactly what was it that kept Harry safe, and kept Voldemort from trying any funny business.

I realize that "cause" was a bit of a misleading term.


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  #1013  
Old March 24th, 2012, 10:40 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Someone once told me of a scene in OOTP where Vernon tried to strangle Harry but was repulsed (or let go), and said that this was the Blood Wards preventing the Dursleys from ever physically harming Harry. I haven't been able to look into this, but could it be true?


  #1014  
Old March 25th, 2012, 12:11 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Someone once told me of a scene in OOTP where Vernon tried to strangle Harry but was repulsed (or let go), and said that this was the Blood Wards preventing the Dursleys from ever physically harming Harry. I haven't been able to look into this, but could it be true?
This never happened in the books. If Vernon were to attempt to strangle Harry, though, I don't think there is any reason to believe that Petunia's protection would respond in any way.


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  #1015  
Old March 25th, 2012, 12:58 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Someone once told me of a scene in OOTP where Vernon tried to strangle Harry but was repulsed (or let go), and said that this was the Blood Wards preventing the Dursleys from ever physically harming Harry. I haven't been able to look into this, but could it be true?
Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
This never happened in the books. If Vernon were to attempt to strangle Harry, though, I don't think there is any reason to believe that Petunia's protection would respond in any way.

Quote:
A loud, echoing crack broke the sleepy silence like a gunshot; a cat streaked out from under a parked car and flew out of sight; a shriek, a bellowed oath and the sound of breaking china came from the Dursleys' living room, and as though this was the signal Harry had been waiting for he jumped to his feet, at the same time pulling from the waistband of his jeans a thin wooden wand as if he were unsheathing a sword - but before he could draw himself up to full height, the top of his head collided with the Dursleys' open window.

The resultant crash made Aunt Petunia scream even louder.

Harry felt as though his head had been split in two. Eyes streaming, he swayed, trying to focus on the street to spot the source of the noise, but he had barely staggered upright when two large purple hands reached through the open window and closed tightly around his throat.

"Put - it - away!" Uncle Vernon snarled into Harry's ear. "Now! Before - anyone - sees!"

"Get - off - me!" Harry gasped. For a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncles sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wand; then, as the pain in the top of Harry's head gave a particularly nasty throb, Uncle Vernon yelped and released Harry as though he had received an electric shock. Some invisible force seemed to have surged through his nephew, making him impossible to hold.
Bolding by me Quote from Chapter one Dudley Demented - HP & OOTP


Is this what you were remembering?


  #1016  
Old March 25th, 2012, 1:12 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
Someone once told me of a scene in OOTP where Vernon tried to strangle Harry but was repulsed (or let go), and said that this was the Blood Wards preventing the Dursleys from ever physically harming Harry. I haven't been able to look into this, but could it be true?
OotP, Chapter OneHarry felt as if his head had been split in two; eyes streaming, he swayed, trying to focus on the street and spot the source of the noise, but he had barely staggered upright again when two large purple hands reached through the open window and closed tightly around his throat.
"Put-it-away!" Uncle Vernon snarled into Harry's ear. "Now! Before-anyone-sees!"
"Get-off-me!" Harry gasped; for a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncle's sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wand. Then as the pain in Harry's head gave a particularly nasty throb, Uncle Vernon yelped and released Harry as though he had received an electric shock - some invisible force seemed to have surged through his nephew, making him impossible to hold.


That's how I've read this. I think it was the Blood Wards that caused the shock and broke the connection between Vernon and his "sausage line fingers" and Harry's throat

ETA

Of course, it's also possible this was a case of accidental magic, such as when Harry blew up Marge, but since he's older and more in control, I still lean towards Blood Wards.


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Last edited by MerryLore; March 25th, 2012 at 1:56 am.
  #1017  
Old March 25th, 2012, 5:05 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
[fieldset= OotP, Chapter One]That's how I've read this. I think it was the Blood Wards that caused the shock and broke the connection between Vernon and his "sausage line fingers" and Harry's throat

ETA

Of course, it's also possible this was a case of accidental magic, such as when Harry blew up Marge, but since he's older and more in control, I still lean towards Blood Wards.
Sorry, but what the heck are "Blood Wards"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
It is, yes, but what I was talking about was exactly how that protection worked- exactly what was it that kept Harry safe, and kept Voldemort from trying any funny business.

I realize that "cause" was a bit of a misleading term.
Thanks for clarifying. That's a good question, and I'm not sure we're ever given much of an explanation of how it works, only Dumbledore's comments to Harry at the end of GOF.


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  #1018  
Old March 25th, 2012, 6:06 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Sorry, but what the heck are "Blood Wards"?

That's a real good question. I never read that term in any of the books. What the heck is a "Blood Ward"? I don't think it's canon, that's for sure.


  #1019  
Old March 25th, 2012, 9:00 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Oops, I guess I'd forgotten that scene. I think that was non-wand magic by Harry, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it fully accidental, given that Harry was desperate to get Vernon's fingers off his throat.

As for Blood Wards, my best guess is it's a borrowed term from some other work, though I can't find anything.


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  #1020  
Old March 25th, 2012, 3:55 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Sorry, but what the heck are "Blood Wards"?
I believe it's ShadowSonic's (although they'd have to clarify this) choice of terminology to explain how Lily's choice to not step aside when confronted by Voldemort was used by Dumbledore to protect Harry at Privet Drive, because the same blood that ran through Lily's veins also ran through Petunia's. Harry had to stay with a blood relative for the full protection from his mother to run it's course until his 17th birthday.

Therefore, I think ShadowSonic's question is whether or not this blood protection/blood ward caused the shock which got Vernon to release Harry when he was strangling him.


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