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Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5



 
 
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  #521  
Old August 10th, 2011, 4:04 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
I think his biggest fear is developing romantic feelings for someone.

He fell in love once, and Lily drifted away from him. He lost her, she married someone else, and partially due to his actions (which he felt guilt about) Lily died. He then spent years protecting a boy who reminds him of Lily having chose another man.

We can choose our actions, and we can re-direct our thoughts, but very seldom do we chose our feelings, and I believe Snape was someone who preferred being in control.

IMHO, his boggart would be something related to romantic love.
I like this for a possibility. Or at least, it is consistent with the three items I mentioned before. They were all in some way related to his romantic feelings for Lily... first he squandered her affection, then he lost it forever, and finally he enlisted Dumbledore in suppressing his feelings. The trend does seem to be along the lines of "I can't be trusted to love anyone."


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  #522  
Old August 10th, 2011, 6:05 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by MagicNiffler5 View Post
perhaps it would be a Lily telling him how much she hates and despises him. Her dead body is also likely... although since that already happened it's probably not his worst fear.
I think JK Rowling once mentioned that Dumbledore's boggart is his sister's dead corpse even though she's already dead..I think the same would apply for Snape, just because it's happened, it doesn't cease to scare/disturb him - he couldn't get over it. It could also be Harry's dead body, because that would mean he's missed his chance at redemption? Maybe even himself since he feels so guilty about lily's death and losing her. Interesting question btw!

I wonder what memory snape thinks of when he casts his patronus?


  #523  
Old August 10th, 2011, 6:16 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by Gemini123 View Post

I wonder what memory snape thinks of when he casts his patronus?
Since his patronus is the same as Lily's, I going to guess that it's a happy memory of her.


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  #524  
Old August 10th, 2011, 6:27 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

I suspect his boggart would be something along the lines of being unable to fulfill his duty to Lily's memory (dead Harry, perhaps?). After Lily's death, that was what allowed him to go on in spite of his grief.

I think MerryLore is right about Snape's Patronus. His life took a downward turn pretty early, but he still had happy memories of the time he spent with Lily before they began to drift apart.


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  #525  
Old August 10th, 2011, 6:49 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
Since his patronus is the same as Lily's, I going to guess that it's a happy memory of her.
I agree, as this explanation is congruent with what JKR said about Patronuses:
Bloomsbury Web Chat Interview, 2007Chely: James patronus is a stag and lilys a doe is that a coincidence?

J.K. Rowling: No, the Patronus often mutates to take the image of the love of one’s life (because they so often become the ‘happy thought’ that generates a Patronus).

As Lily was the love of Snape's life, I think Snape's Patronus mutated to take the image of Lily (i.e. a doe) largely because the happy memories (in the plural. I do not think Snape would be limited to only one happy thought of Lily to use for a Patronus) he used to produce a Patronus all involved her.


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  #526  
Old August 10th, 2011, 7:45 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

After Lily's death, I think Snape's boggart would be Voldemort winning. That's what his goal was at that point in life, to have Voldemort lose.


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  #527  
Old August 10th, 2011, 10:02 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow
Snape never seems to have risked trying to take out Voldemort, despite being in Voldemort's inner circle and having access to him, which seems to me to mean that he either thought he couldn't take out Voldemort, or that he didn't want to try to take out Voldemort.
I have always thought that was because the Death Eaters knew that Voldemort had taken steps to avoid or conquer death. His speech in the graveyard on his return seemed to imply as much. Also Dumbledore sent him to spy on Voldemort not to assassinate him.

ETA: Perhaps like Harry Snape's boggart was a Dementor meaning he feared fear itself. If Snape was afraid he would find it difficult to perform occlumency and this would cause him a huge problem.


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  #528  
Old August 10th, 2011, 10:21 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Being powerless if that could be made into something visual I think is Snape's Boggart. So perhaps seeing Lily fall down dead and not being able to stop it.


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Old August 10th, 2011, 10:27 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

I always thought Snape`s boggart might be something similar to what Ron saw when the Horcrux of the locket scared him with a vision of Harry and Hermione - Lily and James embracing and kissing or something.


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  #530  
Old August 10th, 2011, 10:56 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

I like the idea that the thing that Snape fears is fear itself. But, I don't think Snape's boggart would be a thing like a dementor, per se. In OotP, when Snape gives Harry Occlumency lessons, Snape shows his disdain for any sign of weakness:

OotP, Ch. 24, Occlumency
"I told you to empy yourself of emotion!"

"Yeah? Well, I'm finding that hard at the moment," Harry snarled.

"Then you will find yourself easy prey for the Dark Lord!" said Snape savagely. "Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked this easily - weak people, in other words - they stand no chance against his powers! He will penetrate your mind with absurd ease, Potter!"

"I am not weak," said Harry...

"Then prove it! Master yourself...control your anger, discipline your mind."


I think what Snape fears the most is doing exactly this. I think at one point, Snape did wear his heart on his sleeve and he lost everything. So perhaps his boggart is a manifestation of his loss (Lily dead) or losing that which he had worked so hard to protect to honor her memory (Harry dead).

I've also considered Snape's boggart being himself dead before he could pass on DD's message to Harry in DH. The scene where Voldemort is about to kill Snape, where Snape stares transfixed at Nagini and begs to go find Harry, and then his face when he realizes what is about to happen, then his desperate plea when Harry arrives as Snape is dying, "Take it...." This was almost realized, and I think Snape feared this because it would have meant that he failed in his mission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
I have always thought that was because the Death Eaters knew that Voldemort had taken steps to avoid or conquer death. His speech in the graveyard on his return seemed to imply as much.
This was my take as well. I just finished re-reading GoF, so I immediately thought of Voldemort's speech in the graveyard. He did tell his death eaters that he had taken steps further than any other to prevent his death. So naturally, his death eaters would know that he could not be killed, at least in the normal way. So Snape, not knowing exactly what Voldemort had done, would have known is was futile to attempt to kill Voldemort.


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  #531  
Old August 10th, 2011, 10:57 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by GryffSolider View Post
Ohhh very good theory. Very plausible.
I agree! Good theory. I think that would be his boggart earlier in life though, if boggarts can change over time that is...

I was having a discussion with my friends after watching the deathly hallows about Snape's love for Lily. We were discussing whether Snape's love for her was realistic? Whether someone can really love a person for so long and in such a way? I thought it was very realistic, it's tragic nature in particular. It wasn't a perfect guy fairytale or something.


  #532  
Old August 10th, 2011, 11:02 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Well we must remember that Snape's love sort of fell from the guilt he had when Voldemort killed her. Everytime he saw Harry, he was reminded of Lily and how much he had once loved her, and that he was the reason for her death. So I think that in this case, the idea of a very long and unchanging love for Lily was justified and realistic. Lets say for instance that Harry had not survived, I think Snape would have tried to kill Voldemort regardless of what Dumbledore demanded of him, but because Harry was living-he was given different orders and followed them out of his compassionate love for Lily.


  #533  
Old August 10th, 2011, 11:45 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by hpfan101 View Post
I think what Snape fears the most is doing exactly this.
Losing control, you mean?

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Originally Posted by hpfan101 View Post
I think at one point, Snape did wear his heart on his sleeve and he lost everything.
Interesting theory although I don't think this part is an accurate representation of Snape at any age. Although him mocking the thought could be a result of projection and/or bitterness I really don't think Snape was ever open about his feelings.

Children who've been abused often turn out to be guarded like Snape. Harry in the series is a bit of an exception. But then he of course had friends early on to guide him out of his shell whilst Snape was always described as being a loner in school. He had Lily of course but I never got the feeling that he was ever really open with her either, or else he would have confided in her about his worries and fears to a greater extent than he did - and knowing Lily she would have stayed his friend had she known the background story as to why he was the way he was.

His reluctance to share everything he was with her for fear of being seen as weak or for fear of being hurt is what I think was his biggest problem, and the direct legacy of the abuse and neglect he suffered. It was also this desire to appear strong and powerful that led to him studying the Dark Arts and joining the Death Eaters.

That's my interpretation of events, anyway. Although I do like the theory of Snape fearing the loss of control the most. This makes perfect sense.


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  #534  
Old August 11th, 2011, 12:10 am
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

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Originally Posted by MarauderWalnut View Post
Well we must remember that Snape's love sort of fell from the guilt he had when Voldemort killed her. Everytime he saw Harry, he was reminded of Lily and how much he had once loved her, and that he was the reason for her death. So I think that in this case, the idea of a very long and unchanging love for Lily was justified and realistic. Lets say for instance that Harry had not survived, I think Snape would have tried to kill Voldemort regardless of what Dumbledore demanded of him, but because Harry was living-he was given different orders and followed them out of his compassionate love for Lily.
My thoughts exactly. He felt he was the reason for her death and he never got over it, so it is justified. I know quite a few people who seemed to give up on love altogether when they weren't able to be with that 'one'. Snape seems to have that sort of a character as opposed to more open people who are less guarded and are open to taking chances such as falling in love again. Also, we know Snape was unpopular in school. Prior to befriending Lily, he must have been quite a lonely child, judging by his poor social skills and domestic life. She may have been something that eluded him for a larger part of his life - a caring friend, a sunny person and they were friends for years. It's justified if he couldn't get over her in such a case. Perhaps during his DE days when Lily was dating James, he may have tried to pushed her out of his mind, kept himself preoccupied with DE activities but she still remained at the back of his mind and only really realized how much she meant to him after her life was under threat.

And about Snape wearing his heart on his sleeve - I think he was always guarded, maybe slightly more open with Lily but guarded nonetheless. He seems like the sort of character who likes to be in control which is probaby why he was so shy emotionally. I guess he learned early in life at home. I agree with Sununicorn106, he did want to appear powerful after all he was 'vulnerable and insecure' in his youth and I think he was rightly placed in Slytherin. He wanted to proove himself in some way and be something worthier in Lily's eyes perhaps


  #535  
Old August 11th, 2011, 12:30 am
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Just a reminder that we do not allow "cheerleading" posts (posts which ONLY say "Good point!", "I agree" etc, without adding any new points) or squeeing (declaring your love for or extravagantly praising a character/scene/anything else).

Also, remember that not everyone shares your view of Snape and be respectful of that fact.


  #536  
Old August 11th, 2011, 11:08 am
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Concerning the boggart, I personally think it could have been several of what has been suggested here at the same time, mainly Lily's dead body and being unable to carry out his duty to her memory. I imagine that depending on situation, the boggart could change the way it did for Molly in Grimmauld's Place; that if Snape used a half-hearted riddikulus it would just change into another shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini123 View Post
We were discussing whether Snape's love for her was realistic? Whether someone can really love a person for so long and in such a way?
I like to think such a thing is possible, and I privately believe SS would have loved Lily and noone else even if there was no prophecy. It's sad in a way, and to some people it may seem obsessive and creepy, but to me it seems admirable. His faithfulness is actually what I love most about Snape as a character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
I have always thought that was because the Death Eaters knew that Voldemort had taken steps to avoid or conquer death. His speech in the graveyard on his return seemed to imply as much. Also Dumbledore sent him to spy on Voldemort not to assassinate him.
I agree. I also suspect Snape discussed this with Dumbledore thoroughly throughout the years, and thus knew it would be Harry's destiny to try and defeat the Dark Lord, while his role was only to spy and thus protect HP and others.


  #537  
Old August 11th, 2011, 1:12 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

I think that Snape's boggart was Lily dead, then later during the book years, it would have been something like Molly's boggart ~ Dumbledore dead, then Harry dead.
(Whoops, Noleme ~ I just realized you had the same thing in your post. )

And then in HBP, he discovered that Dumbledore had to die at his own hand, and that Harry would be sacrificed. Horrible situation for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunUnicorn106 View Post
Interesting theory although I don't think this part is an accurate representation of Snape at any age. Although him mocking the thought could be a result of projection and/or bitterness I really don't think Snape was ever open about his feelings.
I think as a kid Snape was learning to be more open about his feelings with Lily, but he tripped over the fact that she just liked James better, which was a devastating thing to a teenage boy. I think eventually he would have told Lily how he felt, but she wasn't receptive. He was actually trying to be honest with her about his feelings it seems to me, but she didn't believe anything he had to say about Lupin or James. And of course he was only 15-16 years old, and certainly not eloquent - he's almost tongue-tied, and only had once he had lost her, he didn't try to explain himself again.

Adult Snape is another person entirely. He can be eloquent when he wants to be. And although he hides his deepest feelings about Lily from everyone else, he's certainly honest and open with Dumbledore. And up until his death he's pretty damn blunt to everyone else except Voldemort, too.

I see Snape as one of the most honest characters, which is one main reason he is disliked. He doesn't mince words. He doesn't pull punches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunUnicorn
Children who've been abused often turn out to be guarded like Snape. Harry in the series is a bit of an exception. But then he of course had friends early on to guide him out of his shell whilst Snape was always described as being a loner in school. He had Lily of course but I never got the feeling that he was ever really open with her either, or else he would have confided in her about his worries and fears to a greater extent than he did - and knowing Lily she would have stayed his friend had she known the background story as to why he was the way he was.
I think Snape believed that Lily accepted him the way he was, only to find out that she didn't. And she of all people knew his background story - she knows what his parents are like even in the first few scenes of Prince's Tale.


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Last edited by silver ink pot; August 11th, 2011 at 1:14 pm.
  #538  
Old August 11th, 2011, 1:24 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

In order of the phoenix.. when Snape goes through Harry's mind and see's harry looking at the mirror of erised... why isn't he all shocked or even teary when he sees lily in the memory?


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  #539  
Old August 11th, 2011, 1:46 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

I think when he saw Harry's memory of his father and mother, he must have felt something, but by then Snape was a Master Occlumens, and I guess whatever he felt he learnt to hide it well from Harry. Though even if he did show something, I doubt Harry would have seen or understood it, he was, at that time consumed by hate for Snape and his own struggle with Occlumency.

But I think Snape would have been equally upset with a lot of other memories he saw in Harry's mind, especially about Harry's childhood. I think that would have disturbed him a lot.


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  #540  
Old August 11th, 2011, 2:09 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.5

Quote:
But I think Snape would have been equally upset with a lot of other memories he saw in Harry's mind, especially about Harry's childhood. I think that would have disturbed him a lot.
I don't think Snape would have been disturbed by Harry's childhood memories even though some of them may have hit close to home. On the contrary, I think he would have been sickeningly pleased to see that Harry did not have the same privileged childhood as James did. His dislike for Harry had no basis, and it ran too deep. I don't think he could ever have felt sorry or empathy for Harry.


 
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