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What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar? Awards season thread



 
 
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  #221  
Old October 18th, 2010, 4:55 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by MinervasCat View Post
This is just my opinion, but, if they'd had Peter Jackson from the beginning and he'd done the series, it would have been great. The LotR trilogy was epic. It was fantastic. The scenery, the music, the scripts, the direction.
Sometimes, though, Jackson's attitude to Tolkien drives me crazy. (The great theme of mercy often flies over his head. ) (I have become progressively less pro-Jackson over the years. )

However, he might have done well with the HP series. He might have conveyed Rowling's more modern themes better than he did Tolkien's medieval/archetypal ones. And he would have had great fun with the teenage wizards and their hormones. I also think he might have conveyed the whole Horcrux plot well, because Peter is at least a strong storyteller as a director.

He can lack a subtle touch, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicant View Post
You know, it's a totally different kind of movie, but Beauty and the Beast was nominated for best picture back in 1991. While it didn't win, I think it's proof that a "children's movie" certain can get a nomination.
Deservedly so. It's a wonderful film. My favourite Disney of all time. It's a proper, magical, redemptive fairy tale, and Belle is a wonderfully feisty heroine. Also, it set a new benchmark for animation because the drawn characters are treated as if they are real-life characters brought to life on paper.


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  #222  
Old October 18th, 2010, 9:36 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by mexicant View Post
You know, it's a totally different kind of movie, but Beauty and the Beast was nominated for best picture back in 1991. While it didn't win, I think it's proof that a "children's movie" certain can get a nomination.
In many ways, however, this just underscores the improbability of DH winning anything. Movies perceived as "kids films" almost never even get nominated.

Even expanding this to SciFi/Fantasy films and just getting nominated is unusual. The expanded nominations will help, of course, but there is a definite "snobbery" to the Academy that is still different from the snobbery of critics. After all, many people were very surprised that Fellowship of the Ring got nominated back in 2002 despite its amazing reviews. And despite Jackson's plea that "fantasy" cease to be the "F" word for Oscars, only Avatar has gotten a nomination since then.

And, of course, we still have to see how people react to DH. HP will always have the baggage of the Columbus films hanging over its head in the minds of Academy members, so DH will have to pack an extra strong "oomph" to overcome that.


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Last edited by Wimsey; October 18th, 2010 at 9:40 pm.
  #223  
Old October 18th, 2010, 11:28 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post
Well the trio is the reason why the movies are not getting noms in any acting categories. I know people just love the trio and I like them too but their acting , (even in HBP) was subpar to say the least. I don't blame them personally. They were very young with little experience and they just didn't blossom.

Now you can put partial blame on the writing. Some of the writing has been horrible, but good actors can fix that by using their skills.

The perfect example is just reading the "worst lines ever in a HP movie" thread. 99% of the complaints are lines the trio says. I knwo the trio have most of the lines but it still doesn't average out. The great actors supporting these films can turn a bad line into a workable line.

Other then that, yes these have been children's movies. Say what you want But for older folks that haven't read these books, these films are kiddy flicks. Ya, I know, HBP was so much darker. But if you look at it from a non HP fan's view that movie came more across a high school coming of age flick then anything else. Its one of my biggest complaints about the last movie. You can clearly see they made the wrong choice by spending so much time on the Lavender/Ron thing and left so much out from the rest of the book.

Oscar's are not going to nominate any children movie for any serious award. Especially one that focuses on such mudane things.
I started reading your thoughtful post agreeing very much until I got to the part about the "children's movies". I had to think about and realize that my perception of the movies have been clouded from the books. I do not think the books ended up being a "children's series", as it started out to be. But you know, when I think about the last movie HBP, the best I could say about it was that it was a PG-rated teen flick. That, to me, is a children's movie and thus, agreed with your take.

Edit: I know many here love the trio. That's why I tempered my true opinions about their acting, esp. one particular "actor". I have, however, really enjoyed watching some of the great adult actors not-named-Gambon. I would watch the movies solely to see Rickman, Harris, Isaacs, Coltrane, Oldman and of course, Fiennes.


  #224  
Old October 19th, 2010, 12:11 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
HP will always have the baggage of the Columbus films hanging over its head in the minds of Academy members, so DH will have to pack an extra strong "oomph" to overcome that.
Your incessant bashing of the "Columbus films" as some sort of black sheep is quite baffling and furthermore not really accurate. Here are the BFCA, RT, and IMDB scores for all of the Harry Potter films up to this point. As you should see there really isn't that much difference...

Broadcast Film Critic Association
HBP-87

OotP-82

GoF- 87

PoA- 84

CoS-82

SS/PS- 90


Rotten Tomatoes:
HBP- 83%

OotP- 78%

GoF- 88%

PoA- 90%

CoS- 82%

SS/PS- 78%

IMDB:
HBP- 7.3/10

OotP- 7.3/10

GoF- 7.6/10

PoA- 7.7/10

CoS- 7.2/10

SS/PS- 7.2/10


Yes, the "Columbus films" are at the bottom on a few scales...however I'd like to point out that the factor by which they differ is hardly statistically significant at only a few percent I don't think the quality or lack thereof has much to do with the small difference really. It's due to the source material. I mean as great as they are the first few books are the weakest in the series and yes they are more children's books unlike those that follow. If you ask me Columbus did a great job with what he had and getting the series rolling smoothly.


The being said, I admit that it's going to take a step up in quality to attract some major award consideration. Our first indicator will be critics...probably need to see something over 90 on the Tomatometer and from the BFCA (even though 85 has been good for a BP nom)

Even if it doesn't reach this level we'll hopefully see a slew of technical nominations. I think it's been a major injustice that the films haven't won a single Oscar yet. They may not be good enough to enter the "Big 5" categories, but they surely should have been winning for techs

I also think the supporting actors have got a raw deal, but others have already addressed this so I digress...


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Last edited by lcbaseball22; October 19th, 2010 at 12:25 am.
  #225  
Old October 21st, 2010, 7:41 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by dreyesbo View Post
Well, I'm pretty sure that a certain movie about kids' toys is gonna be nominated for best movie, so... :P

I do think that DH Part II could get a nomination, more of like a nod for achieving cinematic history: doing an 8 part series of movies, with (mostly) the same cast.
But here's the deal. That movie, even though it is a kid's movie, actually focuses on many different things. The writing is top notch and the voice acting (even though its just voice acting) is leagues ahead of the acting of the trio.


Toy Story may get a nomination for some real Oscars. But it won't be because of the childish stuff in it. It will get the nom for having what I stated above and being so appealing to adults.

Sadly, HP won;t get Oscar nominations much like why Twilight won't be getting any anytime soon. Twilight has underlying meanings to it much like HP does in the books, although in the HP books they are more pronounced. Unfortunately, the movie makers of HP decided to go the easy route and basically concentrate on what Harry is going through.

If the HP film makers would have done more with things like why Voldemort turned so bad and why he has a huge following these films would have gotten nominated. If the film makers would have concentrated more showing how muggles are actually considered in the wizarding world and what the fight is really about, you would have seen more nominations.

I'll give you one more Twilight example. I read the back of one of the dvd's (i dont remember which) and the first sentence was so silly to me I bursted out laughing. It read something like:

As Bella nears here 18th birthday and prom just around the corner, Bella must face a choice of blah, blah, blah. Really? A girl has two men fighting over her, one a vampire, one a werewolf, and an evil vampire sect that wants to turn her or kill her and the 1st thing she is worried about if where to spend her 18th birthday and what to wear to prom?

This is the how the movies for HP turned out. In HBP, I spent 10 to 20% of the movie watching ron;s fling , (that in the end didn't matter much). But only got maybe 2 minutes of flashes on whats going on in the real world and how Voldemort is using his power to corrupt minds?

This is why LOTR got nominations and HP has none. LOTR does a great job of building characters yet you never lose the sense of what was going on in the rest of the world. It was very pronounced the battle of good vs evil, industry vs environment, greed vs loyalty and so on.

In the HP movies it looked like times the franchise was going to grow up, but never really did.

So far with these trailers it looks like HP will finally be an indepth adult movie. But that will only be because JK made the book that way. She left no room for much teen coming of age content in DH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
In many ways, however, this just underscores the improbability of DH winning anything. Movies perceived as "kids films" almost never even get nominated.

Even expanding this to SciFi/Fantasy films and just getting nominated is unusual. The expanded nominations will help, of course, but there is a definite "snobbery" to the Academy that is still different from the snobbery of critics. After all, many people were very surprised that Fellowship of the Ring got nominated back in 2002 despite its amazing reviews. And despite Jackson's plea that "fantasy" cease to be the "F" word for Oscars, only Avatar has gotten a nomination since then.

And, of course, we still have to see how people react to DH. HP will always have the baggage of the Columbus films hanging over its head in the minds of Academy members, so DH will have to pack an extra strong "oomph" to overcome that.
I really don't think its Snobbery" thats been keeping fanatsy/sci-fi out of the Oscars. Its just the way the films are. The films normally don;t take much acting chops, has a very basic plot and therefore basic writing. So that pretty much leaves them with technical awards and editing as the only awards they could possibly get. And the Harry Potter film falls in the same category not because its Fantasy, but rather because it had basic writing, basic plots (at least the ones they chose to show more of), and the actors with the most screen time have been mediocre at best.

So like most sci-fi/fantasy films that just leaves technicals and editing. Well every HP movie that has come out has absolutely now outstand tenchicals to it so thats out. The editing I know nothing about, but I am sure its sub par like the rest of the movie.



Last edited by Snuffy; October 21st, 2010 at 7:45 am.
  #226  
Old October 21st, 2010, 3:12 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post
This is the how the movies for HP turned out. In HBP, I spent 10 to 20% of the movie watching ron;s fling , (that in the end didn't matter much). But only got maybe 2 minutes of flashes on whats going on in the real world and how Voldemort is using his power to corrupt minds?
This is identical to the criticism of the book 5 years ago. People thought that Rowling spent too much time on Harry's and (especially!) secondary characters' romantic lives. Where were the scenes showing what Voldemort was doing? Where are the scenes showing us what the Ministry is doing? Where are the indications about how the wizarding world in general is responding? Is it all fear, or are a lot of people supporting Voldemort? You assert that Voldemort is using his magic to corrupt minds, but there is no evidence for or against that idea in the book itself: and many people wanted the book to explicitly address this sort of thing.

To keep things pertinent, adding such extraneous fan-boy stuff would have done nothing to improve HBP's Oscar chances. Indeed, a story about sexual politics has a much better chance of getting nominated than would this sort of thing! Whatever slim Oscar chances DH might have will be torpedoed by excessive detours onto things that do not immediately affect Harry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffy View Post
This is why LOTR got nominations and HP has none. LOTR does a great job of building characters yet you never lose the sense of what was going on in the rest of the world. It was very pronounced the battle of good vs evil, industry vs environment, greed vs loyalty and so on.
The bigger difference is that Lord of the Rings is a plot-driven story whereas Harry Potters are character-driven stories. That is, the story of Rings emerges from the commonalities to the different plotlines. Character actually was not important: there is no dynamic development (The self-styled Victorian Tolkien still adhered to the antiquated notion that people's personalities are due largely to "type" and that those personalities do no really evolve, unless they were totally broken by events like WWI). The story emerged from what people did, not why people did things.

HP stories are character driven. That is, the story emerges from the different lines of thoughts that Harry takes throughout the tale, and how that evolves over the course of events. This type of story requires much more adaptation to tell on film than does a plot-driven story: unless they resort to Radcliffe voicing over Harry's thoughts (ugh!), then the film must find some way to show Harry's mental evolution. (This does, of course, highlight part of the reason why the HP films are not as good as the Rings films: Rings actually adapted far, far more than did any of the HP films!)

Simply put, it is easier for a film to tell a plot-driven tale than a character driven tale. However: almost all best-picture nominations are for films telling character-driven stories. That is a big reason why Lord of the Rings even getting nominations was both stunning and upsetting to a lot of movie "purists": best-picture, etc., should be reserved for "serious" rather than "fun" films, and character-driven is a necessary (albeit insufficient) criterion for "serious" in their minds.

(Incidentally, all of this doubles for literature; you never saw an HP book win a Booker, for example.)


Now, for DH to be a serious Oscar contender, then it will have to do a bang-up job of showing Harry's mental evolution, from simple acceptance that he is the "Chosen one" to extreme doubt in his purpose, role and even mission as he comes to learn more about Dumbledore and contemplation of abandoning Horcruxes to pursue Hallows, to final acceptance that trying to destroy the Horcruxes really is what is working towards a Greater Good. (DH2 then has to deal with Harry coming to accept just far he'll have to go to really serve the Greater Good.)


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Last edited by Wimsey; October 21st, 2010 at 3:45 pm.
  #227  
Old October 21st, 2010, 5:55 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

First of all, Wimsey, great article on your signature. I agree with most of your points, although we now know that many of those things won't happen.

And I agree, for DH to have a chance for an Oscar, it would've to be character driven. I don't think Part 1 will achieve it, but Part II might because of the "The Forest Again" scene, as long as the development before and after is portrayed correctly. Now, a scene does not make a movie, but it definitely helps.

I do think one of the films might get a nod, but there's no way it'll win.


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  #228  
Old November 18th, 2010, 5:13 pm
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Oscars for Deathly Hallows part 1?

Do you think DH part 1 will get any Oscars? Which Oscars do you think it should be put forward for?


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  #229  
Old November 18th, 2010, 6:18 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

After watching Part I....I would say, no.

Still got my hopes up for Part II.


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Old November 18th, 2010, 6:50 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Nothing in this movie deserves an Oscar.


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  #231  
Old November 18th, 2010, 7:25 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by Kautta View Post
Nothing in this movie deserves an Oscar.
Stop being so cynical!

Cinematography
Art Direction
Visual Effects
Original Score


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  #232  
Old November 18th, 2010, 7:34 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Let's all play nice, please.


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  #233  
Old November 18th, 2010, 9:04 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by Sacred_Memories View Post
Stop being so cynical!

Cinematography
Art Direction
Visual Effects
Original Score
Well, a "cynic" might point out that these are the categories for which otherwise "bad" films might get nominations. For example, Transformers 2 got a nomination for Best Sound. (Michael Bay does like his "BANGS!" after all!) That also got about 12 Razzie nominations..... (I think that the first Transformers got nominated for a couple of the nominations above.)

Given the critical reviews, it seems highly improbable that the Academy is going to consider this film for any of the major awards. Yes, the critics and the Academy differ: but these are not the sort of criticisms that suggest that the film will appeal to the "extra" snobby.


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  #234  
Old November 18th, 2010, 10:59 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Just being realistic. I do believe, however, that Deathly Hallows part II could get an Oscar. Mainly because it has every possibility to be epic.


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Last edited by Kautta; November 19th, 2010 at 2:52 am.
  #235  
Old November 19th, 2010, 3:45 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by Kautta View Post
Mainly because it has every possibility to be epic.
Being "epic" is not a good thing when it comes to winning Oscars! The Academy prefers character-driven tales. With the exception of Return of the King, it's been a long time since an epic won best-picture, and not that many epics even have been nominated.

The Academy also tends to show disdain for big money-makers. Several critics think that the "artistic" reasons for dividing the film into two parts involves collecting green portraits of American presidents & statesmen; chances are pretty good that a lot of Academy members will think the same.


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  #236  
Old November 19th, 2010, 4:17 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Harry Potter with an Oscar! Sacrilege!

Just kidding.

Unfortunately, from what I have seen, the movies that (at least to me) are good and interesting and have a fantastic story rarely win Oscars. And I have seen movies that are truly lousy and boring and dull win Oscars.

I wouldn't be too worried over DH not winning any (well-deserved? - haven't seen it yet, so cannot say) Oscars.

But really, is an Oscar truly an indicator of a good movie for the masses?
I always had the impression that artistic, somewhat boring yet vain projects tend to win.

That, or the voters vote for their friends. I'm not joking, BTW.
Overall, DH will win, if anything, for things like sound, editing, whatever.

To give you an example - a movie that I LOVE and think is fantastic - Raiders of the Lost Ark (Indiana Jones I) won an Oscar ---> for Art Direction, Effects and Film Editing.
Is that anything to be ashamed about? No way! Raiders is one of the best movies, AND it is like a cult classic. I'm not saying the actual winners are undeserving. However, for one personal example - I remember watching some Oscar winning films and really thinking they were DULL!

But that is my opinion, just like it is the opinion of the voters. What does that mean? Nothing - Enjoy the movie! It's going to be amazing!!

I think in some cases, Oscar wins are warranted, some not.

Something like Potter will not win categories like Best Director, Best Actor, Actress, whatever, cause that is not what the people who vote for Oscar are looking for. It's not a vote for what the general public likes. I remember reading that the Oscar community doesn't like fantasy/sci-fi, etc type stuff, so therefore won't win.

But honestly, does it matter? What matters is what the movies mean to you when you see them. I do get suckered into watching the Oscars every year - I admit - and spend half the time yelling at the screen when they pick something lousy, like they tend to do.

For me and I hope for all, the most important is seeing the movies and being excited and joyous and happy that Potter is on screen.

I am (or will be Saturday!! )

And I will end my crazy post now....


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  #237  
Old November 19th, 2010, 5:22 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

I think its going to be the last movie that will sweep the oscars.


  #238  
Old November 19th, 2010, 3:02 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoodyHarry View Post
But really, is an Oscar truly an indicator of a good movie for the masses?
I always had the impression that artistic, somewhat boring yet vain projects tend to win.
heh, well, the Academy Snobs would lift their noses until their black berets were in danger of falling off and say "you don't get it." Yes, "artistic" films tend to win, but the art is the art of story-telling: most Oscar nominees do good jobs of telling stories. The type of story is important: the cinematic equivalent of a novel (i.e., a character-driven tale) is usually what gets nominated: the Academy likes stories about people struggling to create themselves in some way.

The Academy does tend to look down its nose at popular film: "good movie for the masses" is considered a bit of a contradiction; they would refer to it as an "entertaining movie for the masses" and the probably would not mean it as a compliment. Popular = tripe is a simplistic way of describing their view, and not entirely accurate: but it's not entirely inaccurate, either.

However, much like most modern literary critics, the Academy tends to hold fantasy against a film: they view it as escapism that at worst substitutes for story and at best obscures it. Again, this is part of what made Lord of the Rings' nominations (never mind the victories) sure, the movie told the story well, but it told the wrong sort of story in the wrong sort of way. Really, the closest thing to Rings to be nominated since was Avatar, and even that was a heavily character-driven piece much more along the lines of All Quiet on the Western Front or Broken Arrow than with Lord of the Rings.


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Last edited by Wimsey; November 19th, 2010 at 3:09 pm.
  #239  
Old November 30th, 2010, 10:33 pm
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

You could absolutely make an argument that Emma makes the cut for Best Supporting Actress. She simply owned every scene she was in. Name five actresses who outperformed her in supporting roles this year...?


  #240  
Old December 1st, 2010, 12:11 am
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Re: What would it take to get Deathly Hallows an Oscar?

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Originally Posted by helodollyllama View Post
You could absolutely make an argument that Emma makes the cut for Best Supporting Actress. She simply owned every scene she was in. Name five actresses who outperformed her in supporting roles this year...?
Except she is not billed as a supporting actress (she's a lead).

As far as acting Oscars, it's unfortunant that the great supporting casts get so very little screen time (more like cameos) in the Yates movies.


 
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