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Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4



 
 
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  #1481  
Old August 4th, 2013, 4:31 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul View Post
How very bizarre, we were listening to the audio book yesterday and all three of us noticed that in Book 2 it was said that Ginny had green eyes, so I just now checked my hardcover and her eyes are brown.

Page 40, American version:

"Harry just caught sight of a pair of bright brown eyes staring at him before it closed with a snap.

"Ginny," said Ron."
Audio book mistake -- I wonder how common (or rare) that is?


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  #1482  
Old August 4th, 2013, 6:25 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Audio book mistake -- I wonder how common (or rare) that is?
How strange! Surely he'd have been reading from the book?!


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  #1483  
Old August 4th, 2013, 9:52 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
How strange! Surely he'd have been reading from the book?!
Maybe he read it from an older edition where the mistake hadn't been noticed. We know in GoF there was a mistake with the order in which the ghosts came out of Voldemort's wand but it was fixed in the later editions.


  #1484  
Old August 4th, 2013, 9:56 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
Maybe he read it from an older edition where the mistake hadn't been noticed. We know in GoF there was a mistake with the order in which the ghosts came out of Voldemort's wand but it was fixed in the later editions.
Yeah, that must be it!


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  #1485  
Old August 10th, 2013, 12:49 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

So I was just wondering if there was any info on what happened to Voldemort's wand after he got the Elder wand ? I know that Harry put the Elder wand back into Dumbledore's cript but what happened to the wand that was the twin to Harry's?


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  #1486  
Old August 10th, 2013, 4:26 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by twinsrule26 View Post
So I was just wondering if there was any info on what happened to Voldemort's wand after he got the Elder wand ? I know that Harry put the Elder wand back into Dumbledore's cript but what happened to the wand that was the twin to Harry's?
The books don't ever say. The last time we see it, he uses it to Disillusion himself before robbing DD tomb. JKR will have to tell us - if she knows.


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  #1487  
Old August 12th, 2013, 5:28 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
The books don't ever say. The last time we see it, he uses it to Disillusion himself before robbing DD tomb. JKR will have to tell us - if she knows.
Thanks, although I really wish we had an answer from JKR about what happened to it . I believe that Voldemort's wand is filled with evil magic and could be dangerous to an unsuspecting user. We know that Harry's wand absorbed some of that evil magic from Voldemort's wand and blasted Lucius Malfoy's wand to bits ,so I feel it is a loose end that needs cleaning up.


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  #1488  
Old August 12th, 2013, 5:50 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by twinsrule26 View Post
Thanks, although I really wish we had an answer from JKR about what happened to it . I believe that Voldemort's wand is filled with evil magic and could be dangerous to an unsuspecting user. We know that Harry's wand absorbed some of that evil magic from Voldemort's wand and blasted Lucius Malfoy's wand to bits ,so I feel it is a loose end that needs cleaning up.
Maybe JKR will tell us on Pottermore eventually. Wish they had a feature where fans could ask her questions.


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  #1489  
Old August 12th, 2013, 4:27 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinsrule26 View Post
Thanks, although I really wish we had an answer from JKR about what happened to it . I believe that Voldemort's wand is filled with evil magic and could be dangerous to an unsuspecting user. We know that Harry's wand absorbed some of that evil magic from Voldemort's wand and blasted Lucius Malfoy's wand to bits ,so I feel it is a loose end that needs cleaning up.
I never saw it this way at all; I always saw it as Voldemort being the one that was evil and the wand was merely his vehicle for disseminating that evil thereby "absorbing" some of it while it was in use by Voldemort. In other words, I don't see wands themselves as inherently evil; if they were or could be inherently evil then there would have been no way, IMO, that Dumbledore could have "tamed" the Elder Wand which, it could be said, is the closest thing to a truly evil wand. However, it seems to me that the issue with the Elder Wand wasn't so much that it was inherently evil so much as that, through its reputation, it drew the attention and desire of wizards who tended towards authoritarian personalities, wizards who were power-hungry, domineering, arrogant, or had a desire to dictate over others and, once in possession of the Elder Wand, became rather drunk with that power.

The special thing about Dumbledore was that while he fully admits to having such arrogant, power-hungry tendencies in his youth, he also recognized in himself that he should not be in such power positions; he gained the wisdom it was necessary to "tame" the Elder Wand. If the wand itself was inherently evil I don't think he would have been capable of such a feat.

I also never saw Harry's wand as absorbing evil when it blasted Lucius Malfoy's wand, I see that as a function of the horcrux acting in self defense against another piece of itself. I mean, isn't that the explanation given in the books?


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  #1490  
Old August 22nd, 2013, 2:49 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
I never saw it this way at all; I always saw it as Voldemort being the one that was evil and the wand was merely his vehicle for disseminating that evil thereby "absorbing" some of it while it was in use by Voldemort. In other words, I don't see wands themselves as inherently evil; if they were or could be inherently evil then there would have been no way, IMO, that Dumbledore could have "tamed" the Elder Wand which, it could be said, is the closest thing to a truly evil wand. However, it seems to me that the issue with the Elder Wand wasn't so much that it was inherently evil so much as that, through its reputation, it drew the attention and desire of wizards who tended towards authoritarian personalities, wizards who were power-hungry, domineering, arrogant, or had a desire to dictate over others and, once in possession of the Elder Wand, became rather drunk with that power.

The special thing about Dumbledore was that while he fully admits to having such arrogant, power-hungry tendencies in his youth, he also recognized in himself that he should not be in such power positions; he gained the wisdom it was necessary to "tame" the Elder Wand. If the wand itself was inherently evil I don't think he would have been capable of such a feat.

I also never saw Harry's wand as absorbing evil when it blasted Lucius Malfoy's wand, I see that as a function of the horcrux acting in self defense against another piece of itself. I mean, isn't that the explanation given in the books?
Dumbledore said it was the wand acting to defend - not the horcrux. His theory was that Harry's wand had absorbed some of the magic from Voldemort's wand when they were connected in the graveyard. He believed that was due to the wands being "brothers" because they each contained a phoenix feather from Fawkes.

You make some good points, but we also need to remember that wands were presented as being semi-sentient and capable of making certain decisions. That's why Ollivander was always pointing out that the wand chooses the wizard. It was the wand that made the decision. He also explained that, in general, a wand will form a bond with the wizard it has chosen so there is a kind of relationship there with the wand learning and absorbing everything its master did. When Harry's wand was broken he felt as though he had lost a friend - and described holding his repaired wand like a joyful reunion in the end. When he inscribed Dobby's grave, he chose the wand that felt friendly when he held it. Hermione complained that Bellatrix's wand felt like Bellatrix herself and Harry had similar complaints about the Blackthorn wand because it didn't feel right when he used it. By the same token, Voldemort's wand would likely feel like Voldemort because it had absorbed so much from Voldemort over the years.

The Elder wand was different from other wands in that it did not form that kind of bond with its master. It chose its master based on who it considered the most powerful and made that determination based on defeat. Draco was not more powerful than Dumbledore in terms of knowledge, skill, or magical ability but he did defeat Dumbledore so the wand decided he was more powerful and changed allegiance. The Elder wand would still absorb knowledge and magic like other wands, but it would only remain loyal to its master as long as they were undefeated. Other wands could choose to remain loyal to their master if they were defeated because of the bond formed. As Ollivander told Harry, it depended on the wand itself and what it chose. Dumbledore refers to taming the Elder wand, but I don't think he meant that literally. I think he was simply referring to the fact that he made a point not to boast about having the wand and didn't use it for dark purposes as others had in the past. That seemed to be more about the legend surrounding the wand and preventing others from trying to kill him to get it.

I don't think it really matters what happened to Voldemort's wand though. Wherever it ended up, it is unlikely that anyone other than Harry would be able to use it effectively since Voldemort is dead and Harry was the one who defeated him. Anyone else trying to use it would probably have the same problems Harry and Hermione had with the Blackthorn wand and Bellatrix's wand because they didn't defeat Voldemort.


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  #1491  
Old August 22nd, 2013, 9:57 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I don't think the Elder Wand acts akin to Highlander and the Wizard "absorbs" the previous Wizard's evil. I do feel the Elder Ward magnifies the current owner's attributes. Therefore, it would make Voldemort more evil and Dumbledore work more for the greater good...IMO.

But an interesting take, nonetheless.


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  #1492  
Old August 23rd, 2013, 3:24 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

What happens if a vegan wizard gets a dragon heart wand?? Can you refuse?


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  #1493  
Old August 23rd, 2013, 8:19 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by TashaB View Post
What happens if a vegan wizard gets a dragon heart wand?? Can you refuse?
The wand chooses the wizard so I doubt that problem would occur.


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  #1494  
Old August 31st, 2013, 10:53 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
I never saw it this way at all; I always saw it as Voldemort being the one that was evil and the wand was merely his vehicle for disseminating that evil thereby "absorbing" some of it while it was in use by Voldemort. In other words, I don't see wands themselves as inherently evil; if they were or could be inherently evil then there would have been no way, IMO, that Dumbledore could have "tamed" the Elder Wand which, it could be said, is the closest thing to a truly evil wand. However, it seems to me that the issue with the Elder Wand wasn't so much that it was inherently evil so much as that, through its reputation, it drew the attention and desire of wizards who tended towards authoritarian personalities, wizards who were power-hungry, domineering, arrogant, or had a desire to dictate over others and, once in possession of the Elder Wand, became rather drunk with that power.
Here's are DD's comments about the wand in Beedle the Bard:
Tale of the Three BrothersA full century later, another unpleasant character, this time named Godelot, advanced the study of Dark Magic by writing a collection of dangerous spells with the help of a wand he described in his notebook as “my moste wicked and subtle friend, with Bodie of ellhorn (Elder), who knowes of magick moste evile." (Magick Moste Evile became the title of Godelot's masterwork.)

As can be seen, Godelot considers his wand to be a helpmeet, almost an instructor. Those who are knowledgeable about wandlore will agree that wands do indeed absorb the expertise of those who use them, though this is an unpredictable and imperfect business; one must consider all kinds of additional factors, such as the relationship between the wand and the user, to understand how well it is likely to perform with any particular individual. Nevertheless, a hypothetical wand that had passed through the hands of many Dark wizards would be likely to have, at the very least, a marked affinity for the most dangerous kinds of magic.
DD's comments don't indicate that the wand itself is evil, just much of its knowledge is. A knowledge it apparently freely gives, but since DD was not corrupted by it, knowledge that can be resisted. Godelot considered the wand evil, but he, obviously, was enamored of that kind of magic.


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  #1495  
Old September 6th, 2013, 3:38 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by TashaB View Post
What happens if a vegan wizard gets a dragon heart wand?? Can you refuse?
I do not see why a wizard couldn't refuse a wand that chose him. After all,

"The best results, however, must always come where there is the strongest affinity between wizard and wand. These connections are complex. An initial attraction, and then a mutual quest for experience, the wand learning from the wizard, the wizard from the wand."

So, while the wand does choose the wizard, there has to be a mutual attraction and, I would say, "agreement" between wizard and wand. So if the wizard isn't comfortable with the wand, he would do better to refuse it. The odds of this happening, however, seem very slim because, it seems, the wand would not choose an owner who would be incompatible. From Pottermore:
Pottermore, Wand WoodsMoreover, each wand, from the moment it finds its ideal owner, will begin to learn from and teach its human partner.

So a dragon heartstring wand would likely never see a vegan wizard as its ideal owner, so the wizard would never have the chance to refuse it (because the wand would refuse the wizard first). In the, what I perceive to be, very slim chance that this would happen, I think the wizard can refuse the wand just as wands can refuse the wizard. Remember that Harry felt a slight warmth upon trying out the holly wand for the first time, which I think added to his initial comfort with the wand.


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  #1496  
Old September 28th, 2013, 7:15 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I can understand Harry teaching the other members of Dumbledore's Army on how to produce a Patronus. But why did they need him for other lessons in Defense Against the Dark Arts? The only lesson that he seemed to be more knowledgeable about than the others was producing a Patronus. Hell, Fred and George should have known more than Harry by that time - with the exception of producing a Patronus.


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Old September 28th, 2013, 1:58 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by LadySylvia View Post
I can understand Harry teaching the other members of Dumbledore's Army on how to produce a Patronus. But why did they need him for other lessons in Defense Against the Dark Arts? The only lesson that he seemed to be more knowledgeable about than the others was producing a Patronus. Hell, Fred and George should have known more than Harry by that time - with the exception of producing a Patronus.
Actually, Harry (and Ron and Hermione) learned many extra hexes and jinxes that weren't part of the curriculum when Harry was preparing for the Triwizard Tournament.


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Old September 29th, 2013, 9:33 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by BurrowGhoul View Post
Actually, Harry (and Ron and Hermione) learned many extra hexes and jinxes that weren't part of the curriculum when Harry was preparing for the Triwizard Tournament.

Really? I never got that opinion. Especially of Harry and Ron. And if all three learned many extra hexes and jinxes, what on earth did Hermione and Ron needed Harry for - aside from learning how to produce a Patronus?


I'm beginning to suspect that Harry's talent as a wizard has been greatly exaggerated.


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Old September 29th, 2013, 12:35 pm
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I got the feeling it wasn't just about what Harry could do but more about who he was. He united the DA against a single foe and made them more determined to learn and succeed.


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Old September 30th, 2013, 3:09 am
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Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

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Originally Posted by LadySylvia View Post
Really? I never got that opinion. Especially of Harry and Ron. And if all three learned many extra hexes and jinxes, what on earth did Hermione and Ron needed Harry for - aside from learning how to produce a Patronus?


I'm beginning to suspect that Harry's talent as a wizard has been greatly exaggerated.
There were also the defense books in the Room of Requirement, which I'm assuming Harry used as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HRW
I got the feeling it wasn't just about what Harry could do but more about who he was. He united the DA against a single foe and made them more determined to learn and succeed.
Good point. The students knew Harry's level of skill, and that he'd been able to escape Voldemort more than once. And Harry was very forthcoming in saying he often had help/luck with those escapes.


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