Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4



 
 
Thread Tools
  #521  
Old September 17th, 2011, 11:29 am
meesha1971's Avatar
meesha1971  Female.gif meesha1971 is offline
Master of the Magical Arts
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: The Unknowable Room
Age: 47
Posts: 12,731
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
A fair enough point. Speaking of people seeing Harry go into his office- that would be easy enough if he just made Harry actually have a detention; however, your point is valid with regards to witnesses seeing him leave. I suppose that his only option would be to somehow have the portkey bring him back to his office, and come up with a reasonable explanation as to how Harry could have died under his supervision. Hardly a simple task.
Precisely the point. That's why the tournament was the simplest, most logical solution, IMO. As I said before, Harry is not just any student. He is - essentially - a celebrity. Everyone knows him - or at least knows of him. He gets stared at, talked about, and is noticed. There's not a person at Hogwarts who wouldn't have recognized him on sight at that point in the story. Even the house-elves would recognize him - particularly after Dobby came to work at Hogwarts. Dumbledore keeps a close eye on him and either knows what he's doing or has a pretty good idea. Ron and/or Hermione are with him the majority of the time. He is rarely completely on his own.

Any plan to get Harry away from Hogwarts without Dumbledore realizing it would have to take all of those factors into consideration. For Crouch Jr. to get Harry away without drawing any attention to it - specifically attention that would focus on "Moody", he would essentially have to Confund everyone within the castle - including Dumbledore. He'd have to find a way to ensure the portraits either didn't see anything or wouldn't remember seeing anything. He'd have to find a way to bewitch the ghosts or ensure that none were around to see Harry. And only the Bloody Baron had any control over Peeves.

Using the tournament was the simplest and most logical solution - particularly considering that the majority of the work had already been done by the Ministry and Dumbledore. They set up a near perfect scenario with the maze in the third task that would enable Crouch Jr. to get Harry away without anyone realizing it because they wouldn't be able to see inside the maze. They also filled that maze with dangerous creatures and obstacles that could be presented as the cause of death. They invited Karkaroff to stay at Hogwarts - presenting a scapegoat if one was needed. Dumbledore hired Dobby to work at Hogwarts. All the pieces were in place so all Crouch Jr. had to do was use them to his best advantage. He could work behind the scenes - guiding Harry in the tournament without anyone realizing what he was doing - including Harry. He could use Cedric's sense of fair play, Dobby's devotion, and Karkaroff's reputation without drawing suspicion to himself. Nobody would think twixe about "Moody" placing the cup in the maze. And he could be present during that task with the advantage of being able to see inside the maze when nobody else could - enabling him to use further misdirection if the situation called for it as well as bewitch Krum and make sure Harry didn't run into any obstacles that he couldn't overcome on his own.

I can't see any reason for Crouch Jr. to even considering anything else because that was the most logical course of action, IMO.


__________________

Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

Sponsored Links
  #522  
Old September 17th, 2011, 12:23 pm
JohanT  Undisclosed.gif JohanT is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 2624 days
Posts: 519
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I completely agree with meesha1971. I personally don't think a portkey could have been used within the school itself. I believe that during the challenges, security in Hogwarts would have been relatively low, and Harry's disappearance within the maze would not have raised any questions until it was too late. And even when Harry's body appeared, it would not have looked any different from the other times when people had perished during the challenges. The whole wizarding world is aware of the danger the Triwizard Tournament poses, so it is not a stretch for them to assume that Harry died because of the various obstacles. And I think Krum was a suitable scapegoat.

If Harry had died as Voldemort had planned, and Snape showed his mark to Dumbledore, Dumbledore would be operating without a shred of evidence, and may not have asked Snape to return to Voldemort at all. I think it would have created a great amount of confusion for Dumbledore, and even if he had sent Snape, the Ministry was unlikely to believe them because there was no proof.


__________________
  #523  
Old September 17th, 2011, 3:56 pm
MinervaRonDobby  Male.gif MinervaRonDobby is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2582 days
Location: Whitstable, Britain
Age: 22
Posts: 55
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

This isn't really a question about mitakes or holes but does anyone else think that the trio make up the three "types" of wizarding child.
Hermione a muggle born who was discovered to be a witch.
Ron from a pure blood wizarding family.
And Harry who was from a pure blood family but was brought up by muggles.
Also do you think that if you put Hermione and Ron together they sort of form Harry, (Ron being pureblood,Hermione raised by muggles).
If you disagree with me then do say so


__________________
'A day without laughing is a day wasted'~ me
'Laughter is something that's never lost in translation'~ me
'Sometimes a friendly face and a smile is all it takes to cure an illness' ~me
'A funny memory can get you through anything!'~ me

Wit Beyond Measure is Mans Greatest Treasure

discendum rideat vivamus amorem ~MY MOTTO
  #524  
Old September 17th, 2011, 4:01 pm
JohanT  Undisclosed.gif JohanT is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 2624 days
Posts: 519
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
This isn't really a question about mitakes or holes but does anyone else think that the trio make up the three "types" of wizarding child.
Hermione a muggle born who was discovered to be a witch.
Ron from a pure blood wizarding family.
And Harry who was from a pure blood family but was brought up by muggles.
Also do you think that if you put Hermione and Ron together they sort of form Harry, (Ron being pureblood,Hermione raised by muggles).
If you disagree with me then do say so
It's an interesting observation, but Harry is not a pureblood. Since his mother was muggle-born, he is considered a half-blood . But yes, the trio represent the muggle-born, the pureblood, and the half-blood.


__________________
  #525  
Old September 17th, 2011, 4:03 pm
MinervaRonDobby  Male.gif MinervaRonDobby is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2582 days
Location: Whitstable, Britain
Age: 22
Posts: 55
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuMac
The Dark Mark is tattooed on one's arm. One doesn't need to look for it, it should be instantly viewable as long as a DE isn't in a full-sleeved shirt.

All wizards wear robes so their arms would never be fully visible unless they pushed the sleeves up to reveal them - as Snape did to show Fudge his mark.

Likewise, as I said above, a tattoo on the skin could be easily concealed even without magic - a bit of make up matching the skin tone would do the trick. Or they could use magic - as Tonks explained to Harry in OOTP, there were spells and potions one could use to disguise themselves and he could use something like that to hide his scar if he wanted.

Regardless, the Ministry would have to be looking for it and know what it meant. They didn't know anything about the Dark Mark until Snape showed his to Fudge at the end of GOF - at which point, Fudge chose not to believe any of them because he didn't want to believe Voldemort had returned. As such, even if they had spotted the tattoo on some of the wizards they captured prior to Voldemort's downfall, it wouldn't be considered proof of anything.
I'm almost certain ,though I may be wrong, that someone in the book said that dark marks could be concealed in any place and women could even have thiers on a place like their breast...I may be going mad but I am almost certain this is said... please correct me if I am wrong but also tell me if I am correct

Also how big is Gryffindor common room!?!
I know that there aren't that many students in each year at Hogwarts but they say that there are dormitories on either side for boys and girls (a staircase for each gender) but Jo never says, for example, 'Harry moved Dormitory this year as he was now a second year' but she also never explains where the other years (not Harry's year) sleep...I was just wondering if anyone knew...it never seems to be made out to be that big in the common room...

Also I have a question about boggarts....in the book it says that the boggart takes the form of whatever you fear the most so no one knows a boggart's true form but could you not put a camera in with it then record it and play it back and then see what it is?


__________________
'A day without laughing is a day wasted'~ me
'Laughter is something that's never lost in translation'~ me
'Sometimes a friendly face and a smile is all it takes to cure an illness' ~me
'A funny memory can get you through anything!'~ me

Wit Beyond Measure is Mans Greatest Treasure

discendum rideat vivamus amorem ~MY MOTTO

Last edited by MinervaRonDobby; September 17th, 2011 at 4:56 pm.
  #526  
Old September 17th, 2011, 8:52 pm
JustSomeName  Undisclosed.gif JustSomeName is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2573 days
Posts: 9
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
Also I have a question about boggarts....in the book it says that the boggart takes the form of whatever you fear the most so no one knows a boggart's true form but could you not put a camera in with it then record it and play it back and then see what it is?
Probably, but remember the wizarding world has no interest in or knowledge about science or technology. They have no TVs or radios, no idea how planes fly, and are amazed by spark plugs and even though they allow a camera, I doubt they'd consider using it for anything beyond amusement.


__________________
"Now art should never try to be popular. The public should try to make itself artistic." — Oscar Wilde
  #527  
Old September 18th, 2011, 12:26 am
Rookie_Angel's Avatar
Rookie_Angel  Female.gif Rookie_Angel is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4047 days
Posts: 450
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by meesha1971
I'm not entirely sure what you mean be "whose Trace was activated". The Trace was always active from what we're shown - though it wasn't referred to as "the Trace" in the first six books, but rather a more general detection of magic. From how it is described, it sounds more like an alarm system - something that is always active and running, but not noticed until something triggers an alert. It's not a question of what triggers an alert. I think the text is clear on that point - it is triggered by the use of magic and an alert of some kind is received by the Ministry when that happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz
I think our understanding of this might be even further apart than I first thought. What the Dobby incident shows me is that, around each underage witch or wizard, there exists a sort of sensory radius which is 'activated' when magic is performed with in it. The ministry is alerted upon each activation, receiving the name of the witch or wizard, the location of the magic and the type of magic, and if it occurs within a zone designated to not contain any adult wizards, the student is considered to have broken the law.

This also fits with why the Order felt that they could not perform magic around Harry in DH- they did not want to do magic within Harry's Trace, or else they would have his location and the details of the magic performed given to the Ministry. It fits with Dumbledore's words, when he says that the exact perpetrator of the magic could not be determined. It fits with the fact that, if Tom had done underage magic within the Gaunt house, it may have slipped the notice of the Ministry. That is what I meant by activation, anyway, and that is the understanding I have always had of the Trace.
Interesting take, willfitz. I’d never really thought of it as a sort of field around the underage wizards like that.

I’m now having to work a bit at concentrating and putting into focus exactly how I thought of it exactly, I guess my original idea was a little more like Meesha’s in that it is was sort of a magic radar detection system that was always running, but didn’t “alert” like a birddog on information until it had gotten all the way through its “flow chart” and not hit all the "right" answers:

1) Magic detected? (Location probably determined at this point.) When yes, continue. 2) Underage wizard present? No? End monitoring. Yes? Continue. 3) Adult wizards present (and/or perhaps “Known wizarding home/area?”) Yes? End monitoring. No? Trace goes into full alert mode, zooms in, and identifies underage wizard and transmits the name, location and other info to the Ministry.

(Or it could be the other way around, and the fact an underage wizard is even present might not be noted if the Trace is pre-belayed by there being an adult wizard/known wizarding home there?) 1) Magic detected? (Location probably determined at this point.) When yes, continue. 2) Adult wizards present (and/or perhaps “Known wizarding home/in area?”) Yes? End monitoring. No? Continue. 3) Underage wizard present? No? End monitoring. Yes? Continue. Trace goes into full alert mode, “zooms in” and identifies underage wizard and transmits the name, location and other info to the Ministry.

I’m at a bit of a disadvantage not having my DH handy at the moment, but if the area searched for adult wizards or a known adult wizard in the area were a bit on the wide side, this setup would fit perfectly for Tom Riddle and the Gaunts--the Gaunts presence nearby would have turned off the “system” before it got to detecting and identifying Tom.

As to Order members not wanting to do magic near Harry, do we ever actually see anything like this actually trigger a Trace even with adult wizards present or in a wizard home? (If I recall, someone said a few posts back that they actually did a Trace on Harry after he was of age--did that actually happen? Could someone refresh my memory if so?

Maybe if the Order members/Aurors therein knew of a way that the Trace system could be “messed with”, they would be wary of something that could happen if the Ministry did some tweaking, even if it wasn’t the way the Trace usually worked?

As to the tournament, it was my least favorite part of my least favorite book, so it's sometimes hard to get up the gumption to come to the defense of some of them, and some things did seem a bit strained to me, but most of them I could buy.

As to the portkey, I didn't see it as something V. and the DE's had done. It was Lily's shadow form that told Harry it would take him back to Hogwarts. I always sort of suspected that was supposed to indicate that "she" could somehow have sensed that perhaps the field of beams around Harry and Voldy with the Priori Incantatem "reversal effect" itself had somehow affected the cup and reversed its "programming" or perhaps even that ShadeJames and ShadeLily had been somehow able to deliberately affect the portkey somehow to take Harry back to safety. Because, no, making it a portkey back to Hogwarts again doesn't seem like anything that FakeMoody or Voldy would have any reason to have enchanted it to do.


__________________
  #528  
Old September 18th, 2011, 1:33 am
snapes_witch's Avatar
snapes_witch  Female.gif snapes_witch is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4721 days
Location: afternoon tea at Granny's
Posts: 2,973
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
I'm almost certain ,though I may be wrong, that someone in the book said that dark marks could be concealed in any place and women could even have thiers on a place like their breast...I may be going mad but I am almost certain this is said... please correct me if I am wrong but also tell me if I am correct
I don't recall reading that in any of the books; sounds like fan fiction to me. Perhaps someone else remembers.

Quote:
Also how big is Gryffindor common room!?!
I know that there aren't that many students in each year at Hogwarts but they say that there are dormitories on either side for boys and girls (a staircase for each gender) but Jo never says, for example, 'Harry moved Dormitory this year as he was now a second year' but she also never explains where the other years (not Harry's year) sleep...I was just wondering if anyone knew...it never seems to be made out to be that big in the common room...
IMO it's safe to assume there's a dorm for each year. When the 7th years leave at the end of the year there are now vacant rooms for the incoming first year boys and girls. Perhaps the students remain in the same room for their entire time at Hogwarts.


__________________

SEVERUS SNAPE
HEADMASTER
HOGWARTS SCHOOL OF WITCHCRAFT AND WIZARDRY
1997-98

REQUIESCAT IN PACE
9 JANUARY, 1960 - 2 MAY, 1998
  #529  
Old September 18th, 2011, 3:29 am
meesha1971's Avatar
meesha1971  Female.gif meesha1971 is offline
Master of the Magical Arts
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: The Unknowable Room
Age: 47
Posts: 12,731
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

[Comment on deleted post removed by staff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
I'm almost certain ,though I may be wrong, that someone in the book said that dark marks could be concealed in any place and women could even have thiers on a place like their breast...I may be going mad but I am almost certain this is said... please correct me if I am wrong but also tell me if I am correct
I don't think that was specifically stated in the books anywhere, but it does make sense and might be something Jo revealed outside the books.

Quote:
Also how big is Gryffindor common room!?!
I know that there aren't that many students in each year at Hogwarts but they say that there are dormitories on either side for boys and girls (a staircase for each gender) but Jo never says, for example, 'Harry moved Dormitory this year as he was now a second year' but she also never explains where the other years (not Harry's year) sleep...I was just wondering if anyone knew...it never seems to be made out to be that big in the common room...
Do you mean Gryffindor tower as a whole or just the common room? The tower as a whole encompassed the common room with the boys and girls dormitories on either side. Harry's dormitory never changed - he noted in COS that they had the same room and the sign above had been changed to read "Second Years". Based on the description, I would say the dormitories consisted of seven floors - each floor having a room designated for the students in a specific year with the designation being adjusted each year so they wouldn't have to change rooms. The common room itself was never described in specific measurements.

Quote:
Also I have a question about boggarts....in the book it says that the boggart takes the form of whatever you fear the most so no one knows a boggart's true form but could you not put a camera in with it then record it and play it back and then see what it is?
That seems plausible, but it does not appear that anyone ever considered doing that in the text.

[Comment on deleted post removed by staff]


__________________

Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.


Last edited by Alastor; September 18th, 2011 at 5:30 am. Reason: quoting 8 hours earlier deleted posts
  #530  
Old September 18th, 2011, 6:31 am
willfitz's Avatar
willfitz  Male.gif willfitz is offline
I gave String Theory to my Cat...
 
Joined: 3509 days
Location: Victoria, BC
Age: 27
Posts: 3,476
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
I don't recall reading that in any of the books; sounds like fan fiction to me. Perhaps someone else remembers.

IMO it's safe to assume there's a dorm for each year. When the 7th years leave at the end of the year there are now vacant rooms for the incoming first year boys and girls. Perhaps the students remain in the same room for their entire time at Hogwarts.
I think you're right... on both accounts. It seems to me that the dorm is actually prepared for each year (beds added or subtracted, perhaps magically expanded if there are more students, contracted if there are fewer). There are only 5 boys in Harry's year, and likely larger numbers in other years, so I think it is logical that they would keep the same dorm for all seven years, rather than having to change the number of beds each year in each dorm.


__________________


"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress."

"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it."
Joseph Joubert

"...He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death..." -Madalyn Murray
  #531  
Old September 18th, 2011, 6:41 am
HedwigOwl's Avatar
HedwigOwl  Female.gif HedwigOwl is offline
Curse Breaker
 
Joined: 5127 days
Location: Surfing a Probability Wave
Posts: 6,961
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I think you're right... on both accounts. It seems to me that the dorm is actually prepared for each year (beds added or subtracted, perhaps magically expanded if there are more students, contracted if there are fewer). There are only 5 boys in Harry's year, and likely larger numbers in other years, so I think it is logical that they would keep the same dorm for all seven years, rather than having to change the number of beds each year in each dorm.
With magic, though, they could simply extend the space to accommodate whatever number necessary.


__________________
http://www.cosforums.com/images/img/401694897da473df47.png[/img]
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff...

....I miss David Tennant....
  #532  
Old September 18th, 2011, 6:54 am
Nnylarak  Female.gif Nnylarak is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2746 days
Location: Camelot.
Posts: 181
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

I think we can safely know that they keep the same room for all seven years, because in COS Harry observes:
The Whomping Willow, COSThey hurried up it, right to the top, and at last reached the door of their old dormitory, which now had a sign on it saying Second Years.

Therefore, the students would keep the same rooms throughout their years at Hogwarts, and the only modifying that would need to be done is for the vacated 7th year dorm, in case it needed more or less beds for the incoming first years.


__________________
Ravenclawesome.
  #533  
Old September 18th, 2011, 7:03 am
meesha1971's Avatar
meesha1971  Female.gif meesha1971 is offline
Master of the Magical Arts
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: The Unknowable Room
Age: 47
Posts: 12,731
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I think you're right... on both accounts. It seems to me that the dorm is actually prepared for each year (beds added or subtracted, perhaps magically expanded if there are more students, contracted if there are fewer). There are only 5 boys in Harry's year, and likely larger numbers in other years, so I think it is logical that they would keep the same dorm for all seven years, rather than having to change the number of beds each year in each dorm.
That was my take based on Harry's thoughts in COS.

COS, chp 5, pg 85They managed to get to the other side of the common room, still having their backs slapped, and gained the peace of the staircase. They hurried up it, right to the top, and at last reached the door of their old dormitory, which now had a sign on it saying SECOND YEARS. They entered the familiar, circular room, with its five four-posters hung with red velvet and its high, narrow windows. Their trunks had been brought up for them and stood at the ends of their beds.


It would appear that they just rotate the dormitories designation so they would have the same room for the duration of their time at Hogwarts. The vacated seventh years dormitory from the previous year would become the new first years dormitory and the cycle would repeat. It would appear that Harry started Hogwarts at the end of a cycle so the first year dormitory was at the topmost level and he was in the same dormitory each year. I think that makes sense because it also appears that they left some things behind over the summer - which would fit if nobody else would be using the room. Dean hung his muggle poster of his favorite soccer team up in the first book and, the way Harry describes it, he left it hanging there for the duration of his time at Hogwarts - later adding a Quidditch poster next to it.

As far as the dormitories size, the external size of the room wouldn't really matter. As we see with the Weasleys' car and Slughorn's office during the Christmas party, the interior could be magically expanded without effecting the external dimensions at all. Hermione's beaded bag in DH seems to be based on that concept as well. So they could adjust the dormitories as needed depending on the size of the class.


__________________

Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

  #534  
Old September 18th, 2011, 10:02 am
willfitz's Avatar
willfitz  Male.gif willfitz is offline
I gave String Theory to my Cat...
 
Joined: 3509 days
Location: Victoria, BC
Age: 27
Posts: 3,476
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
With magic, though, they could simply extend the space to accommodate whatever number necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meesha1971
As far as the dormitories size, the external size of the room wouldn't really matter. As we see with the Weasleys' car and Slughorn's office during the Christmas party, the interior could be magically expanded without effecting the external dimensions at all.
That is actually exactly what I meant , but I doubt they would want to do that every year for every dormitory. Much simpler to only have to do it once per year on one dormitory.


__________________


"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress."

"It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it."
Joseph Joubert

"...He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death..." -Madalyn Murray
  #535  
Old September 18th, 2011, 10:47 am
MinervaRonDobby  Male.gif MinervaRonDobby is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2582 days
Location: Whitstable, Britain
Age: 22
Posts: 55
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Thanks everyone!

Do students only get theory homework during the Summer, because otherwise they would be breaking the law wouldn't they...or is there an exception made (I doubt this).
And also does Hermione not get told off for practicising magic before Hogwarts?
As she does say she's used a few basic spells 'Just for practice'...


__________________
'A day without laughing is a day wasted'~ me
'Laughter is something that's never lost in translation'~ me
'Sometimes a friendly face and a smile is all it takes to cure an illness' ~me
'A funny memory can get you through anything!'~ me

Wit Beyond Measure is Mans Greatest Treasure

discendum rideat vivamus amorem ~MY MOTTO

Last edited by MinervaRonDobby; September 18th, 2011 at 6:09 pm.
  #536  
Old September 18th, 2011, 10:13 pm
Miss_Gaunt's Avatar
Miss_Gaunt  Female.gif Miss_Gaunt is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4785 days
Location: The Emerald Isle
Posts: 465
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
Thanks everyone!

Do students only get theory homework during the Summer, because otherwise they would be breaking the law wouldn't they...or is there an exception made (I doubt this).
And also does Hermione not get told off for practicising magic before Hogwarts?
As she does say she's used a few basic spells 'Just for practice'...
I don't have the exact quote but Snape tells Lily something along the lines of the Ministry doesn't do anything if you use magic before you start school because they don't think you can't really control it at that age. Its only after you get a wand and start being trained that you have 'to go careful.'

I think it makes more sense if they only get theory homework during the holidays.


  #537  
Old September 18th, 2011, 11:01 pm
meesha1971's Avatar
meesha1971  Female.gif meesha1971 is offline
Master of the Magical Arts
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: The Unknowable Room
Age: 47
Posts: 12,731
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
That is actually exactly what I meant , but I doubt they would want to do that every year for every dormitory. Much simpler to only have to do it once per year on one dormitory.
I don't think they would need to do it every year - at least not in regards to actually casting the spell to enlarge a room. Harry's dormitory room does not appear to be expanded - and with only 5 boys sharing the room, I think that makes sense. But if - hypothetically - they had a year where there 10 students sharing a room, they would need to expand the room and leave that room expanded for the seven years those students were in that room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MinervaRonDobby View Post
Thanks everyone!

Do students only get theory homework during the Summer, because otherwise they would be breaking the law wouldn't they...or is there an exception made (I doubt this).
Harry refers to having essays for homework over the summer. That would likely be theory for classes like Transfiguration or Charms, but he also had essays for History of Magic and Potions which would be more factual than theory I think. Although, there probably would be some theory for potions, it seems that most of it would be learning the ingredients and how they work together.

Quote:
And also does Hermione not get told off for practicising magic before Hogwarts?
As she does say she's used a few basic spells 'Just for practice'...
Well, there is the reference to the Ministry not paying much attention to children who haven't got their wands yet because they understand children will have uncontrolled bursts of power. However, Hermione did have a wand at that point so I guess it would depend on when and where she practiced those basic spells. If she waited until she was on the train, she wouldn't get into trouble because they were allowed to do magic on the train.


__________________

Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

  #538  
Old September 21st, 2011, 1:15 am
ginevraweasly  Female.gif ginevraweasly is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2619 days
Location: berlin
Age: 40
Posts: 69
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
Well, as another poster mentions, he does throw Wormtail off with an impression in the cellar of Malfoy Manor. Perhaps she could have put in earlier indications, though. If I recall correctly, though, Ron would throw in the occasional impression whenever they were making fun of Crabbe or Goyle or others. I don't know how solid that recollection is, though.
yes, this is precisely what I felt, the hints must had come much earlier. it is perfectly plausible in fact, only Ron should have manifested strong imitating abilities much earlier. It shouldn't have come as the huge surprise it was..

Cheers, Ginny


  #539  
Old September 21st, 2011, 3:35 am
meesha1971's Avatar
meesha1971  Female.gif meesha1971 is offline
Master of the Magical Arts
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: The Unknowable Room
Age: 47
Posts: 12,731
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginevraweasly View Post
yes, this is precisely what I felt, the hints must had come much earlier. it is perfectly plausible in fact, only Ron should have manifested strong imitating abilities much earlier. It shouldn't have come as the huge surprise it was..

Cheers, Ginny
I wasn't very surprised by that. Partly because it is a language and anyone could copy a single word in any language if they've heard it before - particularly in circumstances that are memorable as Ron did. And partly because Ron was always doing imitations - even in the first book he was imitating Hermione.


__________________

Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

  #540  
Old September 21st, 2011, 4:14 am
Wab's Avatar
Wab  Undisclosed.gif Wab is offline
The Next Great Adventurer
 
Joined: 5436 days
Location: Mornington Crescent
Posts: 15,280
Re: Plot holes, inconsistencies, and contradictions v. 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohanT View Post
Well then the question Dumbledore would ask himself would be, "Why did Moody kidnap Harry?". It would only prompt further investigation. That plan basically reveals everything. Now if Harry were to die in what appeared to be an "accident", which was what Voldemort intended, Dumbledore would have suspicions, but they would be unfounded.
But assuming that Moody had kidnapped Harry would have thrown a massive red-herring into the investigations.

Quote:
I don't think any of the factors were beyond his control. Harry would not die during the first two tasks because Dumbledore would have ensured the safety of all the participants.
Dumbledore couldn't ensure the safety of the participants. It is specifically stated that no one could. That is why participation was limited to students over the age of 17.


__________________
A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods

You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Bookmarks

Tags
basilisk, harry, hole, horcrux, plot


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:52 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.