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  #81  
Old October 20th, 2010, 12:29 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Starling View Post
So do I! A hat and a scarf. I'm, um, a bit older than Mr Cumberbatch.
I think it's partly a boarding school thing, as well. If you go to a day school in the UK, about the only thing you own that has nametapes in is your school uniform, and you're unlikely to ever want to wear that again once you've left. But if you go to a boarding school, you'll have socks, towels, PJs etc with nametapes in, and you're unlikely to just throw those away the minute you turn 18. I'm still using some of the nightdresses and towels I had at school and I'm 8 years older than BC.

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Originally Posted by Wab View Post
Caught the first ep on Sunday and was impressed but not entirely convinced. Holmes is just a bit too unlikable. This was borne out when the network showed the second on Monday and I lasted about five minutes before I found him too unbearable.
I'd fully endorse Mori's comment:

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Keep watching, Wab. It's pretty much about Sherlock's growth. He's a great man, but, as Lestrade says, he's not yet a good man.
but also remark

Spoiler: show
that the second episode was by far the worst. Please don't judge the series by that - the third, IMO, is a real return to form.

However, I didn't find him unlikable in the first episode. They really went all out for the sociopath angle, but I actually found him oddly vulnerable because of that. He seemed to me to immediately cling to John as a lifeline who could explain the unfathomable mysteries of human emotions and behaviour that were completely beyond him and I found that quite touching. He also (and I thought this came out even more in ep2) obviously didn't like being a "freak" that "everybody hated".

I'm aware of the fact that I may not be entirely uninfluenced here by the more carnal attractions of Mr Cumberbatch, as well as the character, but I found this incarnation of Holmes more pathetic (in the literal, not the colloquial, sense) than any other adaptation I've seen, precisely because he seemed to actually have a pathological problem, rather than just being a charming eccentric.


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Ooh, I'm excited. Sherlock is going to be starting on PBS Sunday for the American crowd. I'll finally get to watch it!
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Posted by Fawkesfan1
I am SO happy!! I just found out that PBS stations will be airing 3 episodes of this show starting on the 24th of this month .

I'll definitely make sure to take the time to watch it.
Hope you both enjoy it as much as I did and that we hardcores haven't killed it for you by building it up too much. I have to admit that part of the reason the first ep blew me away as much as it did was because I had not been at all impressed by the trailers and went into it half expecting it to be awful.


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  #82  
Old October 20th, 2010, 4:59 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Keep watching, Wab. It's pretty much about Sherlock's growth. He's a great man, but, as Lestrade says, he's not yet a good man.
I think it was bone-headed programming as much as anything. With ads the show was two-hours which is fine for Sunday night. Putting the second ep on Monday was just too much.

Plus Monday night is already filled with distractions -- The Goodies, Good Game, Shameless, 30 Rock, Parks and Recreation, Media Watch...



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  #83  
Old October 25th, 2010, 8:21 pm
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Re: Sherlock

I finally got to see the first ep of Sherlock... it's pretty good so far.

Not a fan of the whole 'in your face', fast detective work though, there's enough of that on tv and in movies already . But other than that -- it's good.

Sherlock is somewhat of a ****head in this one (pardon my French there, but there's just no other word that can properly describe him )... his ironic, dry sense of humor makes me laugh out loud and both him and Watson get along well.

As for the case, it was a pretty good one.

I look forward to future episodes of this show .


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Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
I think it's partly a boarding school thing, as well. If you go to a day school in the UK, about the only thing you own that has nametapes in is your school uniform, and you're unlikely to ever want to wear that again once you've left. But if you go to a boarding school, you'll have socks, towels, PJs etc with nametapes in, and you're unlikely to just throw those away the minute you turn 18. I'm still using some of the nightdresses and towels I had at school and I'm 8 years older than BC.



I'd fully endorse Mori's comment:



but also remark

Spoiler: show
that the second episode was by far the worst. Please don't judge the series by that - the third, IMO, is a real return to form.

However, I didn't find him unlikable in the first episode. They really went all out for the sociopath angle, but I actually found him oddly vulnerable because of that. He seemed to me to immediately cling to John as a lifeline who could explain the unfathomable mysteries of human emotions and behaviour that were completely beyond him and I found that quite touching. He also (and I thought this came out even more in ep2) obviously didn't like being a "freak" that "everybody hated".

I'm aware of the fact that I may not be entirely uninfluenced here by the more carnal attractions of Mr Cumberbatch, as well as the character, but I found this incarnation of Holmes more pathetic (in the literal, not the colloquial, sense) than any other adaptation I've seen, precisely because he seemed to actually have a pathological problem, rather than just being a charming eccentric.






Hope you both enjoy it as much as I did and that we hardcores haven't killed it for you by building it up too much. I have to admit that part of the reason the first ep blew me away as much as it did was because I had not been at all impressed by the trailers and went into it half expecting it to be awful.
Nah you guys didn't. It's pretty good so far... and I hope it gets better as it goes along. I certainly don't expect perfection here -- it takes time for a show to develop and grow.


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Last edited by Fawkesfan1; October 25th, 2010 at 8:29 pm.
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  #84  
Old October 25th, 2010, 9:56 pm
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Re: Sherlock

Saw the premiere last night. Very entertaining, but a depressive who turns to serial murder as a way of coping with his own mortality will never be as interesting as the raving man out for vengeance. There were homages to everything from Stamford to their lodgings to Watson's migrating war wound throughout the series of short stories. I liked the Mycroft reveal and Lestrade's opinion since it appears to be even more apt than Mycroft's. I even truly enjoyed Holmes learning about Watson's best qualities. I'm really not sure about Moriarty alerting and training a bunch of murderers to throw at Holmes, though.


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  #85  
Old October 25th, 2010, 10:04 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by jordmundt6 View Post
Saw the premiere last night. Very entertaining, but a depressive who turns to serial murder as a way of coping with his own mortality will never be as interesting as the raving man out for vengeance. There were homages to everything from Stamford to their lodgings to Watson's migrating war wound throughout the series of short stories. I liked the Mycroft reveal and Lestrade's opinion since it appears to be even more apt than Mycroft's. I even truly enjoyed Holmes learning about Watson's best qualities. I'm really not sure about Moriarty alerting and training a bunch of murderers to throw at Holmes, though.
Yep.

Me too , very nice and random there. I thought it was a bad guy at first -- like Moriarty .

Same here.

Me neither -- but it's a definitely interesting twist there to that part of the story.


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  #86  
Old October 25th, 2010, 10:50 pm
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Re: Sherlock

I didn't watch the show when I was in Europe but caught the US premiere last night and enjoyed it. I liked the understated Brit humour. I thought Holmes and Watson meshed very well, chemistry's right.

I burst out laughing when Sherlock said his name and address, and then winked. You wouldn't have caught either Basil Rathbone or Jeremy Brett winking like that.


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  #87  
Old October 26th, 2010, 2:39 am
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Re: Sherlock

But, Everett might have winked like that--although his carriage is quite different from this iteration of Holmes.


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  #88  
Old October 26th, 2010, 3:40 am
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Re: Sherlock

I quite liked it and was thoroughly entertained. I chuckled aloud at quite a few parts. I thought it lacked a few aha moments, I wasn't fond of the extended speedy deductions (I would have preferred short and speedy deductions), and it was a little on the long side, but overall, I am happy to see some smart TV for a change. Can't wait to see next week's.


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  #89  
Old October 26th, 2010, 6:15 am
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Re: Sherlock

Apparently it was pretty heavily edited to fit the timeslot and make room for commercials. The murderer actually had a motive and I heard this scene was cut. But since I haven't seen it, I can only speculate and pass on rumours.


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  #90  
Old October 26th, 2010, 10:36 am
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Re: Sherlock

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I thought it lacked a few aha moments,
Some people in the UK made the point that it doesn't work fantastically as a detective series/thriller series. And they're right - that isn't its strongest point. (In fact, it has been much pointed out that the supposedly brilliant detective never works out the killer - the killer voluntarily turns up at his flat and helpfully identifies himself!)

But I don't think the writers were trying to write a brilliant detective series and failed. They made an earlier version of A Study In The Pink, which was never broadcast, but is available as an extra on the DVD, and in that Sherlock solves the case much quicker, which is, of course, far more credible and in keeping with his character and doesn't leave the problem which we have with the final cut, that most of the audience solve the case much quicker than the detective genius does!

But I can totally see why they changed it, because if Sherlock immediately deduces who the killer is, you don't get time for enough of a bond to develop between John and Sherlock for the denouement to be

(a) credible
(b) sufficiently poignant

Because, for me, the big strength of this series is the characters and their relationships and I think the writers (well, two of them, anyway ) have wilfully sacrificed a lot of the elements of a conventional detective drama to prioritise that.

I'm a total whodunnit junkie and I have to admit that most of the detective series that are ten a penny on UK TV (e.g. Lewis, Poirot, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lynley, Silent Witness) have much more watertight, intricate plots and far more satisfying "Aha!" moments, but none of them have made me care anywhere near as much about the characters or made me laugh and cry the way Sherlock has.

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I wasn't fond of the extended speedy deductions (I would have preferred short and speedy deductions)
I don't know - I liked that. I think Benedict Cumberbatch really gives an extraordinary sense of a mind that moves at breakneck speed and how difficult it must be to live in his head. Sherlock's genius is here played almost as a disability.

And as one of the writers has pointed out, BC is one of the few people who can pull off those extended deductions (which are quite true to the books) "without just looking like a smug git"!



Last edited by Melaszka; October 26th, 2010 at 10:41 am. Reason: Greengrocer's apostrophe
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  #91  
Old October 26th, 2010, 4:05 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Apparently it was pretty heavily edited to fit the timeslot and make room for commercials. The murderer actually had a motive and I heard this scene was cut. But since I haven't seen it, I can only speculate and pass on rumours.
It was shown on our Public Broadcasting System, so there were no commercials, but it was also just short of 90 minutes, so perhaps it was edited? If so, I can't imagine how long the original was.

I understood that the motive was that the guy was told he had three years to live and at the end of that three-year period he started gambling with death. Was there more to it?

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Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
I'm a total whodunnit junkie and I have to admit that most of the detective series that are ten a penny on UK TV (e.g. Lewis, Poirot, Midsomer Murders, Inspector Lynley, Silent Witness) have much more watertight, intricate plots and far more satisfying "Aha!" moments, but none of them have made me care anywhere near as much about the characters or made me laugh and cry the way Sherlock has.
Oh, I would totally agree with you. Even without the gratuitous aha, Sherlock made for a really great story because of the characters and the plot, never mind a good mystery. Watching this first episode, I got the impression this isn't going to be your typical detective series. I really liked the way Holmes and Watson are portrayed, and I very much look forward to more episodes.


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  #92  
Old October 26th, 2010, 7:17 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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I understood that the motive was that the guy was told he had three years to live and at the end of that three-year period he started gambling with death. Was there more to it?
Actually, yes. Moriarty offered him money for each person he killed or rather survived. The cabbie went along with this because he wanted to leave his children provided for. He did it for love, not for hate.

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  #93  
Old October 27th, 2010, 4:31 am
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Re: Sherlock

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Actually, yes. Moriarty offered him money for each person he killed or rather survived. The cabbie went along with this because he wanted to leave his children provided for. He did it for love, not for hate.
Sorry...but I don't see how killing people for money can be seen "for love" no matter who ends up with the cash

I also saw it on PBS with no commercials, and the reason you mention regarding the cabbie wasn't brought up -- just as Rastaban43 said, it was shown he did it just to gamble with death, a sort of bitter reaction to his own situation.

About this depiction of Holmes & Watson -- I'm not quite sure this will work well in the long run (admittedly based on only this one episode). For example, I thought the over-explaining of Sherlock's mind process (flashing words on the screen, etc.) took too long and was redundant as the script usually covered it with dialog anyway.

That being said, I found the development of the relationship between Holmes & Watson to be interesting and very well portrayed by both actors. The actors' performances will keep me watching, at least in the short term.


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  #94  
Old October 27th, 2010, 6:13 am
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Re: Sherlock

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Sorry...but I don't see how killing people for money can be seen "for love" no matter who ends up with the cash
It's the conclusion to which Sherlock comes. "Bitterness is a paralytic. Love is a much more vicious motivator."


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  #95  
Old October 27th, 2010, 10:05 am
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
About this depiction of Holmes & Watson -- I'm not quite sure this will work well in the long run (admittedly based on only this one episode). For example, I thought the over-explaining of Sherlock's mind process (flashing words on the screen, etc.) took too long and was redundant as the script usually covered it with dialog anyway.
They pull back on that a bit in future episodes.

Quote:
That being said, I found the development of the relationship between Holmes & Watson to be interesting and very well portrayed by both actors. The actors' performances will keep me watching, at least in the short term.
Yes, I think it's the story of their relationship which is the script's strongest point (and, from the interviews I've read, the main thing that the writers were trying to achieve). Cumberbatch and Freeman are not only individually excellent actors, but there is something magical about them together.


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  #96  
Old October 27th, 2010, 10:46 am
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
Actually, yes. Moriarty offered him money for each person he killed or rather survived. The cabbie went along with this because he wanted to leave his children provided for. He did it for love, not for hate.
Ah, that's a shame they cut that bit out. They must not have cut much but it's strange they would cut that. The way you described it is much more reason for motive.

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  #97  
Old October 27th, 2010, 3:00 pm
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Re: Sherlock

That was a REALLY important detail. But again, I dislike the idea of hired pawns of Moriarty almost as much as a rolling lineup of psychos prepped by him. And I have to ask--what commercials? It's PBS, there's like five minutes of commercials total.


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  #98  
Old October 27th, 2010, 3:11 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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And I have to ask--what commercials? It's PBS, there's like five minutes of commercials total.
My understanding is that the cuts were made to make space for Alan Cummings's introduction.

But I'm wondering if they possibly chose to cut those particular lines because they introduced some shades of grey that questioned John's assessment of the cabbie as "not a very nice man"? It still seems a bit of a crass decision, though.



Last edited by Melaszka; October 27th, 2010 at 3:14 pm.
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  #99  
Old October 28th, 2010, 11:48 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Melaszka View Post
My understanding is that the cuts were made to make space for Alan Cummings's introduction.

But I'm wondering if they possibly chose to cut those particular lines because they introduced some shades of grey that questioned John's assessment of the cabbie as "not a very nice man"? It still seems a bit of a crass decision, though.
Well that wasn't a good idea... since it leaves some things in the dark for us US fans.

about the crass decision. They need to leave out the intro -- or make it a little shorter in some way.


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  #100  
Old October 29th, 2010, 4:17 am
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Re: Sherlock

But the intro was 2 minutes or less. Looking for 2 minutes means they cut a key fact that provides meaning and connective tissue to the entire mystery?


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