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  #61  
Old August 30th, 2010, 5:37 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Guess what I've just bought?
I am dying of envy. DYING. I could order it via Amazon.uk but I'll be in London in two weeks. Still.


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  #62  
Old August 30th, 2010, 6:17 pm
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Re: Sherlock

It's OK - I won't discuss its contents until you've seen it.


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  #63  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 9:27 am
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Re: Sherlock

The Guardian continues to shamelessly publicise this series (WARNING! Pilot spoilers):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-rad...nd-of-comments



Last edited by Melaszka; September 2nd, 2010 at 9:42 am.
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  #64  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 4:52 pm
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Re: Sherlock

Not a clue...

Seriously, I'm still debating whether to buy it or just wait for it to be repeated


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  #65  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 7:34 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Originally Posted by Schlubalybub View Post
Not a clue...

Seriously, I'm still debating whether to buy it or just wait for it to be repeated
It depends on how obsessed you are! The DVD has lots of extras, like commentaries and "The Making of...", as well as the unaired pilot, but I'm sure the series itself will be repeated ad nauseam, if you can live without the trivia (e.g. Benedict Cumberbatch revealing that he still has some clothes with nametapes in them.)


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  #66  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 9:16 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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It depends on how obsessed you are! The DVD has lots of extras, like commentaries and "The Making of...", as well as the unaired pilot, but I'm sure the series itself will be repeated ad nauseam, if you can live without the trivia (e.g. Benedict Cumberbatch revealing that he still has some clothes with nametapes in them.)
I loved that little detail though. Kind of adorable.

And getting my hands on the DVD is a top priority right now.


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  #67  
Old September 3rd, 2010, 11:59 am
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Re: Sherlock

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I loved that little detail though. Kind of adorable.
I know!

I have to say, though, fabulous an actor as he is and beautiful to look at, after listening to one-and-a-half hours of his commentary on The Great Game, I have a suspicion that, in RL, I might find him an incy-wincy bit annoying (although apparently we have lots in common - a love of contemporary folk music, vintage clothes, post-modernist literature and Nancy Mitford and a propensity for having nametapes in our clothes - so perhaps not).

I've been brooding on press reports that Sherlock is going to acquire a love interest in series 2 and I have a terrible suspicion that they're going to pull a The Spy Who Loved Me on us - he will fall in love, only to have happiness snatched out of his fingers by Moriarty about a day later (= I will burn your heart). Either that or he will fall in love only to have his heart cruelly broken. I don't think it's going to be a happy ending. (Just remember that these predictions are brought to you by the person who confidently asserted that McGonagall was a DE and that the big, blond DE at the end of HBP was going to have huge plot significance).



Last edited by Melaszka; September 3rd, 2010 at 7:13 pm.
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  #68  
Old September 4th, 2010, 7:00 am
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Re: Sherlock

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I know!

I have to say, though, fabulous an actor as he is and beautiful to look at, after listening to one-and-a-half hours of his commentary on The Great Game, I have a suspicion that, in RL, I might find him an incy-wincy bit annoying (although apparently we have lots in common - a love of contemporary folk music, vintage clothes, post-modernist literature and Nancy Mitford and a propensity for having nametapes in our clothes - so perhaps not).

I've been brooding on press reports that Sherlock is going to acquire a love interest in series 2 and I have a terrible suspicion that they're going to pull a The Spy Who Loved Me on us - he will fall in love, only to have happiness snatched out of his fingers by Moriarty about a day later (= I will burn your heart). Either that or he will fall in love only to have his heart cruelly broken. I don't think it's going to be a happy ending. (Just remember that these predictions are brought to you by the person who confidently asserted that McGonagall was a DE and that the big, blond DE at the end of HBP was going to have huge plot significance).
Personally, I hope that Gatiss and Moffat will stick closer to canon and give him a pretend love interest, if a love interest at all. Because I still think that the idea sucks and doesn't fit this Sherlock's psychological profile. Especially after he said that women are not his area. Ugh, why does every hero have to have a love interest? Does not compute.

And his heart, in this scene Moriarty really meant John and I hope John remains Sherlock's only 'weakness'. I mean, Sherlock doesn't connect with other people. He likes John despite himself because John doesn't judge him and goes along with most of his insane plans. If they introduce a proper love interest, they'd have to take the same route or it'll be stretching my disbelief hard.

And out of interest, what did you find annoying about the Cumberbatch? Enquiring minds want to know.


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  #69  
Old September 4th, 2010, 12:23 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Personally, I hope that Gatiss and Moffat will stick closer to canon and give him a pretend love interest, if a love interest at all. Because I still think that the idea sucks and doesn't fit this Sherlock's psychological profile. Especially after he said that women are not his area. Ugh, why does every hero have to have a love interest? Does not compute.

And his heart, in this scene Moriarty really meant John and I hope John remains Sherlock's only 'weakness'. I mean, Sherlock doesn't connect with other people. He likes John despite himself because John doesn't judge him and goes along with most of his insane plans. If they introduce a proper love interest, they'd have to take the same route or it'll be stretching my disbelief hard.
No, I don't want him to have a love interest, either (I'm speculating about what I have a horrible suspicion they might do, not on what I want to happen). I haven't read that many of the original stories, but I got the impression that he sort of falls for Irene Adler, but in a very asexual, women-aren't-my-thing-but-she-is-intellectually-awesome-and-if-I-were-to-fall-for-a-woman-which-I-won't-it-would-be-her sort of way. He'd be fascinated with her in the same sort of way he is with Moriarty - not in a sexual way but in an "I can't be the only one who gets bored"/"At last! Someone who's not so infinitely stupider than me that I can't relate to them" way.

Having said that, Gatiss and Moffat are obviously total ACD fanboys, so I'm sure you're right and we can trust them to not do anything gratingly uncanonical.

I also think that giving Sherlock love interest at this point would completely sabotage the importance of the John/Sherlock relationship. It's supposed to be a massive thing that this guy who normally doesn't care about anyone has found a friend he really cares about. That will be totally spoiled if he starts falling for people left, right and centre.

I've also been thinking about Sarah recently. Like you, I really like her character and I don't think it's inappropriate for John to have a love interest, I just think she's been introduced too early in John/Sherlock's relationship. But I am quite irritated that, having introduced her, they've so far not really done anything with her as a character. She's in danger of turning into a mere device that they can use to get John out of the flat at moments when the plot demands that he isn't there.

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And out of interest, what did you find annoying about the Cumberbatch? Enquiring minds want to know.
Oh, I don't know. In the commentary to the Great Game, all three of them (Gatiss, Freeman and Cumberbatch), but especially BC, were just being a bit blokey and facetious and trying a little too hard to be funny, IMO. They were hilarious for about 20 minutes, but I started to find it a bit wearing towards the end. May have been the mood I watched it in.(Also, it must have been hard for him - he says at several points that he's never done a DVD commentary before and doesn't quite know what he's supposed to be saying).

ETA: Also, I get the impression that in RL, he's a bit suave, well groomed and pleased with himself. But, having said that, I have to hold a bit of love in my heart for anyone who cheerfully describes himself (as BC apparently did in an interview a few years ago) as "a posh bloke with a silly name."



Last edited by Melaszka; September 4th, 2010 at 11:28 pm.
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  #70  
Old September 5th, 2010, 11:31 am
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Re: Sherlock

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I haven't read that many of the original stories, but I got the impression that he sort of falls for Irene Adler, but in a very asexual, women-aren't-my-thing-but-she-is-intellectually-awesome-and-if-I-were-to-fall-for-a-woman-which-I-won't-it-would-be-her sort of way.
I haven't read any of the stories but from what I know from people who read everything there is to know about Sherlock Holmes, there isn't anything romantic going on between him and Irene. At all. She's been turned into the traditional love interest by film makers.

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I also think that giving Sherlock love interest at this point would completely sabotage the importance of the John/Sherlock relationship. It's supposed to be a massive thing that this guy who normally doesn't care about anyone has found a friend he really cares about. That will be totally spoiled if he starts falling for people left, right and centre.
Yes, exactly. Mary was introduced when the Sherlock-John dynamics hadn't been established yet. And now she's been sidelined. It's really bizarre. They shouldn't have moved through the canon time line so quickly.


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Oh, I don't know. In the commentary to the Great Game, all three of them (Gatiss, Freeman and Cumberbatch), but especially BC, were just being a bit blokey and facetious and trying a little too hard to be funny, IMO. They were hilarious for about 20 minutes, but I started to find it a bit wearing towards the end. May have been the mood I watched it in.(Also, it must have been hard for him - he says at several points that he's never done a DVD commentary before and doesn't quite know what he's supposed to be saying).

ETA: Also, I get the impression that in RL, he's a bit suave, well groomed and pleased with himself. But, having said that, I have to hold a bit of love in my heart for anyone who cheerfully describes himself (as BC apparently did in an interview a few years ago) as "a posh bloke with a silly name."
Fair enough. I think he suffers from the typical actor-arrogance. But he's adorably embarrassed whenever he's gushed over in public, which makes me think that he can't be too full of himself.


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  #71  
Old September 5th, 2010, 11:49 am
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Re: Sherlock

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I haven't read any of the stories but from what I know from people who read everything there is to know about Sherlock Holmes, there isn't anything romantic going on between him and Irene. At all. She's been turned into the traditional love interest by film makers.
I have read a story she appears in (A Scandal in Bohemia? It was a long time ago, so I don't entirely remember) and, no, nothing happens between them, but Holmes does refer to her as The Woman, in a distinctly fanboyish kind of way, so I think it's interpreting canon, rather than distorting it, to have him a little romantically infatuated with her. An actual relationship, however, would be
non-canonical.

ETA: Just watched the commentary to A Study in Pink (which is brilliant, btw - worth getting the DVD just for that) for the first time and I'm now pretty confident that Moffat and Gatiss aren't going to pull a non-canonical Sherlock love story on us. In their commentary on the restaurant scene, they do seem to be leaning towards an asexual Holmes and they actually discuss in some detail the way several film versions inflate the Adler comments into a full-blown love interest and how they think it's not in the text (Gatiss didn't seem to think Holmes was interested in her at all in that way, whereas Moffat seemed to be leaning more towards ACD ambiguously suggesting their might be an attraction but no more).



Last edited by Melaszka; September 5th, 2010 at 3:35 pm.
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  #72  
Old September 7th, 2010, 8:33 am
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Re: Sherlock

On LJ there was a very interesting discussion about the John/Sherlock dynamics in the books and stories and how their displays of affection may seem slashy today but not necessarily back in the days. I don't quite agree. ACD wrote some of the stories right after the Wilde Trials, when the public was incredibly sensitive towards improper male affection. I think it's a valid interpretation of the text to see Sherlock's homosocial preferences. Considering how coded Wilde's and Forster's works were, ACD seems to be downright forward about Sherlock's affection for John Watson. Watson, of course, married while Holmes never did.

Anyway, my point is that Sherlock's appreciation of Irene Adler is canon but it's not prevalent. I think The Woman part has been emphasised so much because it's apparently the only time Sherlock Holmes ever showed an interest in women. And I'm a bit put out by Moffat's continuous back-pedalling about Sherlock's already established asexuality. I don't know, but to me the scene in the restaurant hinted pretty clearly at Sherlock's preference for men, if he had any interest in relationships. And as I understand it, this view would be in accordance with the canon.


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  #73  
Old September 7th, 2010, 3:10 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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On LJ there was a very interesting discussion about the John/Sherlock dynamics in the books and stories and how their displays of affection may seem slashy today but not necessarily back in the days. I don't quite agree. ACD wrote some of the stories right after the Wilde Trials, when the public was incredibly sensitive towards improper male affection. I think it's a valid interpretation of the text to see Sherlock's homosocial preferences. Considering how coded Wilde's and Forster's works were, ACD seems to be downright forward about Sherlock's affection for John Watson. Watson, of course, married while Holmes never did.
I probably haven't read enough of the original stories to have a worthwhile opinion on this. Thinking of other late Victorian/Edwardian literature, though, I don't think it's that straightforward. Yes, Wilde and Forster had to be coded when they were writing about actual homosexuality, but precisely because homosexuality was taboo and unthinkable to a lot of the "respectable" bourgeoisie, I think people did accept intense male friendships at face value much more than they do today. That's not to say that I don't think reading Watson/Holmes/both as being gay/bisexual is a valid interpretation - it definitely is. But I think a heterosexual Watson and a heterosexual or asexual Holmes is also a valid interpretation. From the stories I've read. Which aren't many. So I should probably just shut up.

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Anyway, my point is that Sherlock's appreciation of Irene Adler is canon but it's not prevalent. I think The Woman part has been emphasised so much because it's apparently the only time Sherlock Holmes ever showed an interest in women.
Yes, that's a very good point. The one point he says something nice about a woman, everyone's all over it, ignoring the zillions of times he's said nice things about men. It's the heterosexually centred way many people (including, I am ashamed to say, me on occasions, although I'm trying not to) read things, assuming that everybody is heterosexual unless it's explicitly stated otherwise.

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And I'm a bit put out by Moffat's continuous back-pedalling about Sherlock's already established asexuality. I don't know, but to me the scene in the restaurant hinted pretty clearly at Sherlock's preference for men, if he had any interest in relationships. And as I understand it, this view would be in accordance with the canon.
Is he back-pedalling, though? I'm going to have to watch the Study In Pink commentary again to check exactly what he said. I know both he and Gatiss seemed quite intent on Sherlock being asexual in their discussion of the restaurant scene (although, it has to be said, they did seem to be pouring water on the gay idea, too - one of them, I think Gatiss but I couldn't swear it wasn't Moffat, criticised people for assuming Holmes is gay because he never shows any interest in women in canon, pointing out that "he never shows any interest in men, either").

I also read the restaurant scene as hinting at (or, indeed, shouting) Sherlock's preference for men when I first saw it, but the version of it in the pilot seemed to me much more muted, much more asexual, and watching a Study in Pink again, I think I got the idea that Sherlock was gay more from the way the Cumberbatch played the lines than from the actual script itself. So I wouldn't necessarily say that Moffat had deliberately set Sherlock up as interested in men and was now back-pedalling.

I watched The Blind Banker again yesterday, when my broadband connection was down and I was very bored. On closer analysis, the preposterousness of some of the plot details became even more obvious and I'm itching to say something about it, but I might save it for LJ.


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  #74  
Old September 19th, 2010, 11:38 am
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Re: Sherlock

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Is he back-pedalling, though? I'm going to have to watch the Study In Pink commentary again to check exactly what he said. I know both he and Gatiss seemed quite intent on Sherlock being asexual in their discussion of the restaurant scene (although, it has to be said, they did seem to be pouring water on the gay idea, too - one of them, I think Gatiss but I couldn't swear it wasn't Moffat, criticised people for assuming Holmes is gay because he never shows any interest in women in canon, pointing out that "he never shows any interest in men, either").
Just came back from my trip. I got my very own copy of the DVD now but I haven't had time to watch the commentary yet. So I cannot really comment on 'he never shows any interest in men either' apart from pointing out that he does. Watson is the only person who can elicit an emotional response from Sherlock. Oh wait, Sebastian and Moriarty could do, too. I'm really not sure where they are going with this argument.


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  #75  
Old September 19th, 2010, 2:36 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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Just came back from my trip. I got my very own copy of the DVD now but I haven't had time to watch the commentary yet. So I cannot really comment on 'he never shows any interest in men either' apart from pointing out that he does. Watson is the only person who can elicit an emotional response from Sherlock. Oh wait, Sebastian and Moriarty could do, too. I'm really not sure where they are going with this argument.
I've just watched that bit again and I was wrong - it's Moffat who says he never shows any interest in men, not Gatiss. He was talking about canon, not their series, so Sebastian isn't necessarily a contradiction to that. And I'm still not sure how much of the Sebastian thing was Cumberbatch and how much was the writer.

As I'm sure you know, the Doyle estate can be very quick to pull the plug on adaptations that get too slashy, so there may also be an element of self-preservation in these comments.

On the other hand, Moffat does sound pretty sincere and I think he's saying what he really believes (although, reading between the lines, I think there may be some Gatiss/Moffat disagreement on this). I don't know - I love slashy subtext as much as the next person, but I can also see that emotional attachment is not always the same as sexual attachment and Holmes being fonder/more admiring of Watson/Moriarty than he would be of any woman would not necessarily make him gay (especially in an Edwardian context, when I imagine that unmarried upper-/middle-class men rarely had the opportunity to spend enough time with women - of their class, anyway - to build up the kind of intellectual and emotional attachment with them that they would today). But you're the expert on this era and topic, not me.

Complete non-sequitur: I rewatched The Great Game this week and
Spoiler: show
I'm puzzled by Moriarty warning Sherlock to "stop prying" or he will "burn your heart". How has Sherlock been "prying"? Apart from his interest in the Carl Powers murder, which was 20+ years ago, never came to anything, and even Sherlock had forgotten about it until Moriarty reminded him, I can't see that Sherlock has been prying into Moriarty's interests. Most of the time (e.g. when the cab driver deliberately comes to Baker Street and finds him and the whole Great Game), Moriarty has had to make a deliberate effort to get Sherlock interested in him and has said himself "we were made for each other" and that he's a "fan". Am I missing something incredibly obvious here?



Last edited by Melaszka; September 19th, 2010 at 2:48 pm.
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  #76  
Old October 18th, 2010, 5:16 pm
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Re: Sherlock

I am SO happy!! I just found out that PBS stations will be airing 3 episodes of this show starting on the 24th of this month .

I'll definitely make sure to take the time to watch it.


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  #77  
Old October 18th, 2010, 6:08 pm
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Re: Sherlock

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(e.g. Benedict Cumberbatch revealing that he still has some clothes with nametapes in them.)
So do I! A hat and a scarf. I'm, um, a bit older than Mr Cumberbatch.


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  #78  
Old October 19th, 2010, 4:50 pm
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Re: Sherlock

Caught the first ep on Sunday and was impressed but not entirely convinced. Holmes is just a bit too unlikable. This was borne out when the network showed the second on Monday and I lasted about five minutes before I found him too unbearable.


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  #79  
Old October 19th, 2010, 8:09 pm
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Re: Sherlock

Keep watching, Wab. It's pretty much about Sherlock's growth. He's a great man, but, as Lestrade says, he's not yet a good man.


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Old October 20th, 2010, 11:55 am
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Re: Sherlock

Ooh, I'm excited. Sherlock is going to be starting on PBS Sunday for the American crowd. I'll finally get to watch it!


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