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  #41  
Old July 8th, 2012, 12:35 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Originally Posted by SnapesBane View Post
I saw memento a long time ago but I do not remember anything other than liking it.
Hmm, you'll have to watch it again then. It pretty much demands multiple viewings, though as unique and brilliant as it is I would think that it would be pretty damn memorable. And since this is an Oscar thread...did you know Memento was nominated for Best Original Screenplay?


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  #42  
Old July 12th, 2012, 8:24 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

As if we are not hyped enough already... And the Oscar goes to ... Batman? Could happen with epic grandeur of ‘Dark Knight Rises’


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  #43  
Old July 12th, 2012, 8:59 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

The Dark Knight Rises receiving a Best Picture nomination? I will believe it when I see it....But probably not even then, actually.


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  #44  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:17 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

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The Dark Knight Rises receiving a Best Picture nomination? I will believe it when I see it....But probably not even then, actually.
Actually this critic (who's seen the film already clearly) is talking wins, not just nominations. Ones gotta think the nomination is almost a certainty. I mean there's gotta be a "make up call" for the past snubs, right? Like article says, should be additional ammo in their favor.


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  #45  
Old July 12th, 2012, 10:43 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

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The Dark Knight Rises receiving a Best Picture nomination? I will believe it when I see it....But probably not even then, actually.
Well, I am of the opinion that any comic book film that wins BP simply makes the institution 100% invalid. I'll reserve complete judgement until i see it, but I predict that the film will not speak to me on any meaningful level and will likely just be popcorn entertainment like TDK.

When it comes to Best Picture, I want a film that resonates long after I watch it. I want something that will last the test of time. Over the years, very little have done that, and Batman films certainly haven't.



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  #46  
Old July 12th, 2012, 2:58 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

Err, no film of Nolan's is "just popcorn entertainment" and to think that is completely missing why he garners such praise from critics and the general public alike. The Academy has yet to recognize him as a director sure, but the Directors Guild has nominated him three times!

The irony here is the AMPAS's stubbornness in typically awarding the same damn bait films and ignoring nearly all the high quality entertainment and genre films that exist is what is actually making the institution "invalid". Some need to wake up to the 21st century.


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  #47  
Old July 13th, 2012, 12:44 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Err, no film of Nolan's is "just popcorn entertainment" and to think that is completely missing why he garners such praise from critics and the general public alike. The Academy has yet to recognize him as a director sure, but the Directors Guild has nominated him three times!
Well, what themes in his films resonate with you? What do they say about the human condition that can't be said in the same manner by grade school kids? DO those themes and messages last with you for days? Films that do this are BP worthy to me. None of his movies have done this to me. I dare say that every comic book movie I've seen hasn't either. In my experience, only dramas have done this and the occasional science fiction/fantasy movie.


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  #48  
Old July 13th, 2012, 3:00 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Well, what themes in his films resonate with you? What do they say about the human condition that can't be said in the same manner by grade school kids? DO those themes and messages last with you for days? Films that do this are BP worthy to me. None of his movies have done this to me. I dare say that every comic book movie I've seen hasn't either. In my experience, only dramas have done this and the occasional science fiction/fantasy movie.
While i took a class in college called film and the humanities and we discussed the "human condition", it was a lot of b.s. and i have to say that I really don't give a flip about themes and that sort of pretentious and superficial literary analysis type nonsense. Anyways my points still stand. Nolan's films are enjoyable quality filmmaking on many levels and do have great depth if you care to look...


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  #49  
Old July 13th, 2012, 4:39 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

Dissecting themes in a work is not superficial analysis, in my opinion. It's not surface-level enjoyment. Liking something because it looks good, has good action, great dialogue, etc, is superficial: there's no meaningful analysis, I think. Art works best when analysis can be performed on a deeper level to dig into the psyche of characters and their motives. This is what makes a good movie and if it's good enough, hopefully it will be nominated for prestigious awards. I found none of that with Nolan's films. Everything is surface-level. Sure, they're fun, but when I analyze them, I find nothing worth talking about with positivity.

When someone makes a film, they attempt to inject some sort of deeper emotion into it. Of course Michael Bay may be an exception, but given the likes of Fincher, Tarkovsky, Tarantino, and PT Anderson, they put things in there for you to ponder. That is not superficial, in my opinion.

What depth do you think there is to Nolan's work that warrants Oscar consideration? Note that I am sure Nolan put his heart and soul into his creation,s but they never work thematically for me.



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  #50  
Old July 13th, 2012, 6:17 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Originally Posted by SnapesBane View Post
Liking something because it looks good, has good action, great dialogue, etc, is superficial: there's no meaningful analysis, I think.
That can be analyzed as well, for instance shot compositions and how believable the dialogue is.

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Art works best when analysis can be performed on a deeper level to dig into the psyche of characters and their motives.
Inception did that brilliantly. Memento as well, if I remember correctly (ah the irony...)

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Originally Posted by SnapesBane View Post
Note that I am sure Nolan put his heart and soul into his creation,s but they never work thematically for me.
There are themes in his work, but if I get you right you think they are treated on a surface level?

I have four follow-up questions for you to see whether we are on the same page in terms of film analysis:

1) Did Deathly Hallows: Part 2 work thematically for you?
2) What blockbusters work thematically for you?
3) Perhaps developing themes is easier in smaller indie-productions than in bigger films where you carefully have to balance it with action, CGI and the producers' wish to please the masses?
4) Don't you agree that a blockbuster that's both entertaining and deals with some themes can be excellent despite not going into the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean in exploring them?


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  #51  
Old July 13th, 2012, 10:35 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
I have four follow-up questions for you to see whether we are on the same page in terms of film analysis:

1) Did Deathly Hallows: Part 2 work thematically for you?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
2) What blockbusters work thematically for you?
None.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
3) Perhaps developing themes is easier in smaller indie-productions than in bigger films where you carefully have to balance it with action, CGI and the producers' wish to please the masses?
Maybe. The problem is that many of these these indie films don't get wide release, so the masses don't even get a chance to venture outside their comfort zones to explore them.

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Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
4) Don't you agree that a blockbuster that's both entertaining and deals with some themes can be excellent despite not going into the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean in exploring them?
Sure, but I've seen none.



Last edited by SnapesBane; July 13th, 2012 at 11:29 pm.
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  #52  
Old July 14th, 2012, 12:20 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

Thank you for answering my questions which confirmed my assumptions and even exceeded them to some degree. Originally I was going to ask if you had actually seen any blockbusters which worked for you thematically, but I changed it because I honestly thought it could be perceived as a rude question. That goes to show how much I disagree on the matter, but I see no point in continuing this discussion. I got what I wanted.


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  #53  
Old July 14th, 2012, 12:30 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

There are themes in Nolan's work. But they do not resonate with me. I brought up Tarkovsky for a reason: Solaris is very similar to Inception thematically. The difference is that it isn't bogged down by repetitive action to appeal to wider audiences. The story is also more human because it focuses more on the relationships than world building. It works on every level. It doesn't feel tedious. This is the stuff I look for when it comes to awards like the Oscars. Nolan satisfies very little in this department for me.

Over the years I have become more interested in themes and characterization than dialogue and cinematography. If the themes and characterization work well, everything else is just icing on the cake.



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  #54  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:16 am
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Originally Posted by lcbaseball22 View Post
Err, no film of Nolan's is "just popcorn entertainment" and to think that is completely missing why he garners such praise from critics and the general public alike. The Academy has yet to recognize him as a director sure, but the Directors Guild has nominated him three times!
The Bat films are popcorn entertainment quite simply because they are simplistic.


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  #55  
Old July 14th, 2012, 9:00 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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The Bat films are popcorn entertainment quite simply because they are simplistic.
They're not simplistic - whether you like them or not, they have thematic and narrative ambition that was, and maybe still is, on a level unusual for superhero movies. I'm not saying that they're only ambitious relative to other superhero movies, though; they reach and succeed in their own right. As do all of Nolan's films, for me - okay, if the result doesn't work for you, the result doesn't work for you, but I haven't seen a Nolan film that I only enjoyed as a popcorn movie, where the thematic and emotional content didn't resonate with me. The keyword in, "no film of Nolan's is 'just popcorn entertainment'" to me is "just" - they are superhero movies, so entertainment comes first, but I only use "popcorn movie" in reference to a film that doesn't have a deeper core, that you forget about a couple hours after you see it. I think I have more appreciation for theme/message than lc, but I'm pretty much with him on Nolan's Batman movies and his work in general.

It does feel like we're veering into a separate discussion, though, so let's not dwell too much on Nolan.


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  #56  
Old July 14th, 2012, 10:15 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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It does feel like we're veering into a separate discussion, though, so let's not dwell too much on Nolan.
I just looked to see if we have a Nolan thread and was surprised to find that we apparently do not. I thought I had created one, but I guess not. Perhaps I should create one now? Anyways, I just have one last thing to say; mark my words, Nolan will be mentioned with the likes of Hitchcock and Kubrick when all is said and done. That being said, I thought this humble comment of Nolan's in an interview was very neat-
Quote:
Still, wouldn’t it mean more to win that directing Oscar himself?

“That would be terrific, but at the end of the day, they owe Stanley Kubrick and Alfred Hitchcock a lot more than me, you know what I mean?” Nolan said, citing two Hollywood greats who never won the directing prize. “It’s kind of like, get in line.”

read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...GdW_story.html
And that may be the ultimate example of the Academy's irrelevance.


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  #57  
Old July 14th, 2012, 10:38 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Anyways, I just have one last thing to say; mark my words, Nolan will be mentioned with the likes of Hitchcock and Kubrick when all is said and done.
Hey mat be, but that doesn't mean he's a good filmmaker. He's mediocre at best. the problems lie with the script. Visually he's amazing, but his stories are about as basic as you can get. These are of course my opinions.

How much of Kubrick have you seen? We need more films like 2001 so the science fiction genre can get more Academy recognition.



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  #58  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:09 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Hey mat be, but that doesn't mean he's a good filmmaker. He's mediocre at best. the problems lie with the script. Visually he's amazing, but his stories are about as basic as you can get.
Heh, that is so not true and it's funny that the script is the one aspect of Nolan's films that the Academy seems to appreciate, having nominated him 3 times, beginning with his first feature length film, Memento. Subsequently for The Dark Knight and Inception.

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How much of Kubrick have you seen? We need more films like 2001 so the science fiction genre can get more Academy recognition.
Well, I could not disagree more about 2001 which is extensively style over substance, however I have seen all of Kubrick's 11 feature length films except for Paths of Glory, Clockwork Orange, and Spartacus. The only ones I've really enjoyed are 'The Killing' and 'Eyes Wide Shut', so he's not a favorite director of mine by any means, but unlike your disdain for Nolan, I do not deny that Kubrick had talent and deserves his spot among the greatest filmmakers of all time. The greatest though was Hitchcock, who was clearly much more prolific and is a favorite!


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  #59  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:27 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

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Heh, that is so not true and it's funny that the script is the one aspect of Nolan's films that the Academy seems to appreciate, having nominated him 3 times, beginning with his first feature length film, Memento. Subsequently for The Dark Knight and Inception.
Nominations do not denote quality. If this were so, Every BP nominee would be good,. I am sure we can agree that there are a lot that aren't.

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Well, I couldn't disagree more about 2001, but I've seen all of Kubrick's feature films except for Paths of Glory, Clockwork Orange, and Spartacus. He's not a favorite director of mine by any means but unlike your disdain for Nolan, I don't deny that Kubrick had talent and deserves his spot among the greatest filmmakers of all time. Hitchcock obviously was more prolific though and is a favorite of mine!
What disdain for Nolan? I said I like his work and find them amazing visually. I just don't see them as anything to write home about in regards to prestigious awards like the Oscars. Why are you so defensive that you have to make up things I have not said? It's rude and I don;t like it.

I think it would be better if we created a Nolan thread and discussed him there than bogging up this thread with accusations of snubbing and more snubbing from the academy.


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  #60  
Old July 14th, 2012, 11:39 pm
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Re: Oscars 2013

I hold no contempt for Nolan. I hold no disdain.


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