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Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5



View Poll Results: What do you think reflected Sirius' animagus form the most?
His loyalty to his friends. 40 80.00%
His friendship with Remus. 2 4.00%
The likelihood of him being in the doghouse (har de dar). 1 2.00%
His reckless nature. 11 22.00%
Obligatory pony option. 4 8.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old September 10th, 2012, 6:48 pm
wolfbrother  Male.gif wolfbrother is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
I don't Harry ever got to know the actual man.
I don't know about this. What do we know about Sirius that Harry didn't ? Harry may have been blind or downplayed certain aspects of Sirius' character but a lot of people do that.

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Sirius and Remus' relationship was strained, i think. I believe Remus would have had issues with being set up to commit murder, and then when Remus was suspected as being the traitor by James and Sirius and not trusted, it would have been an additional blow to any friendship they may have had, IMHO.
While I don't think their friendship was as strong as the one between James and Sirius, I don't think it was strained. I think Remus would have understood that it was a rash and stupid act by Sirius. I don't think Sirius intended Snape to get killed. Its something I can imagine Sirius himself doing - try and sneak a peek of Remus transforming. Sirius was part of the reason Remus had a good time in Hogwarts and I don't think he'd let one incident change everything. Remus was always the sane and understanding one after all.


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  #22  
Old September 11th, 2012, 8:44 pm
Verena  Undisclosed.gif Verena is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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I'm sure seeing Sirius' dead body in front of them would have caused a few tears. I also think part of the reason Ron and Hermione didn't talk about Sirius was because Harry didn't want to talk about it. He'd leave as soon as the topic came up. I'm sure they spoke about him when Harry was not around.
Unfortunately this is just a guess... there isnít in the books, so itís not canon. I hope that will be written on Pottermore something about it. In that case Iíll be happy to write ďI was wrong!Ē


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Originally Posted by MerryLore View Post
I think Harry loved the image of the man he knew - Sirius was a connection to his family and knew his parents, and was Harry's chance of having a real family he could connect with, and get away from the Dursleys. I don't Harry ever got to know the actual man. And I think Sirius also saw Harry through the filter of his friendship with James, and he never knew Harry as his own person. If Sirius had lived beyond the war, things may have been different, I think, but they didn't have enough time together.

Sirius and Remus' relationship was strained, i think. I believe Remus would have had issues with being set up to commit murder, and then when Remus was suspected as being the traitor by James and Sirius and not trusted, it would have been an additional blow to any friendship they may have had, IMHO.

I think Sirius was only deeply mourned by Harry, and Harry was mourning an image. I think had Sirius lived and he and Harry really gotten to know each other, he and Harry may have been able to have a close relationship, but it's hard to say.
I think more or less the same thing. But I think that Siriusís love for Harry has been true always: the escape from Azkaban, eat rats hiding in a cave, be ready to die, are not things you do for anyone, but only for the person who we truly love. Anyway, Iíd rather talk about this in another topic. If Iím not mistaken there was one about Harryís father figures, but I donít remember where... I read some time ago when I wasnít registered to the forum.


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Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post

While I don't think their friendship was as strong as the one between James and Sirius, I don't think it was strained. I think Remus would have understood that it was a rash and stupid act by Sirius. I don't think Sirius intended Snape to get killed. Its something I can imagine Sirius himself doing - try and sneak a peek of Remus transforming. Sirius was part of the reason Remus had a good time in Hogwarts and I don't think he'd let one incident change everything. Remus was always the sane and understanding one after all.
I fear that their friendship has been damaged after Sirius suspected Remus and vice versa. A part of their friendship remained, but it was not the same as the time to Hogwarts. A proof of this could be that Sirius bequeaths everything to Harry, but he leaves nothing to Remus who is so poor that he canít afford a house.



Last edited by Verena; November 16th, 2012 at 8:57 pm. Reason: writing error
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  #23  
Old September 11th, 2012, 8:48 pm
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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I fear that their friendship has been damaged after Sirius suspected Remus and vice versa. A part of their friendship remained, but it was not the same as the time to Hogwarts. A proof of this could be that Sirius bequeaths everything to Harry, But he leaves nothing to Remus who is so poor that he canít afford a house.
Maybe he talked to Remus about the will and his possessions and Remus agreed that it should all go to Harry. Or Remus might be sensitive about being poor, like Ron is, and he wouldn't have liked being left stuff.
Sirius could have just forgotten about Remus or not really thought about him.


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  #24  
Old September 12th, 2012, 2:17 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Maybe he talked to Remus about the will and his possessions and Remus agreed that it should all go to Harry. Or Remus might be sensitive about being poor, like Ron is, and he wouldn't have liked being left stuff.
Sirius could have just forgotten about Remus or not really thought about him.
Perhaps Sirius considered being Harry's godfather obligated him to also take care of Harry financially.


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  #25  
Old September 12th, 2012, 5:09 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Maybe he talked to Remus about the will and his possessions and Remus agreed that it should all go to Harry. Or Remus might be sensitive about being poor, like Ron is, and he wouldn't have liked being left stuff.
Sirius could have just forgotten about Remus or not really thought about him.
All of the above is possible.

Or maybe it's JKR herself who didn't think about how Remus needed money more than Harry did - or she could have had Sirius leaving a certain amount of money to Remus. Harry already had the fortune his parents left him at Gringott's, and the house in Godric's Hollow.

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Originally Posted by snapes_witch View Post
Perhaps Sirius considered being Harry's godfather obligated him to also take care of Harry financially.
Oh he knew that Harry had plenty of money on his own. It was more a gesture of love and family feeling, IMO.


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  #26  
Old September 12th, 2012, 5:12 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

And also to make sure that none of his other relatives got their hands on anything. The reason Sirius got everything from his parents (despite them being estranged) was because they had no will and thus everything passed to him when they died by default. By giving it all to Harry he made sure his other relatives (Bellatrix being the biggest threat) couldn't get anything belonging to his branch of the family.


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  #27  
Old September 12th, 2012, 5:23 am
StarsAndShadows  Female.gif StarsAndShadows is offline
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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And also to make sure that none of his other relatives got their hands on anything. The reason Sirius got everything from his parents (despite them being estranged) was because they had no will and thus everything passed to him when they died by default. By giving it all to Harry he made sure his other relatives (Bellatrix being the biggest threat) couldn't get anything belonging to his branch of the family.
True, but it doesn't mean he couldn't leave a small bequeath to Remus, for friendship's sake and also because Remus needed it.



Last edited by StarsAndShadows; September 12th, 2012 at 7:28 am. Reason: Correct mistake
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  #28  
Old September 12th, 2012, 5:26 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

...Yeah, a bit of a blunder on Sirius' behalf. But all those years in Azkaban and his own underlying personality issues beforehand probably didn't leave him the most thoughtful of people. He probably just thought "Gotta give it all to someone...eh, I'll just name it to Harry!" instead of thinking out all possibilities.


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  #29  
Old September 12th, 2012, 7:32 am
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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...Yeah, a bit of a blunder on Sirius' behalf. But all those years in Azkaban and his own underlying personality issues beforehand probably didn't leave him the most thoughtful of people. He probably just thought "Gotta give it all to someone...eh, I'll just name it to Harry!" instead of thinking out all possibilities.
You're right, he wasn't quite thinking straight. Over a dozen years in Azkaban, then cooped up at Grimmauld Place with Kreacher-before-he-reformed for company, with Snape's taunts every time they met for Order business... It would unhinge anyone. That Sirius was still basically a decent man, and was able to love and care for other people says a lot about his resilience and fundamental goodness. He can be forgiven for forgetting Remus' financial situation when he was writing up his will. Or, blame it on JKR!


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  #30  
Old September 12th, 2012, 5:48 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I think it is also possible that Sirius was protecting Lupin, and all other adults he was associated with in the Order. Sirius was still wanted by the Ministry up to the day he died, and I think naming any adults in his will could have marked them for investigation. That could have been especially dangerous for someone like Lupin, who was already viewed with suspicion by many because he was a werewolf. Having someone who was considered an escaped Dark Wizard, murderer, and minion of Voldemort leave a werewolf a fortune in his will probably would have done Lupin no favors. Sirius could not have known that his name would be cleared shortly after his death, but had he been cleared before he died he might have left a very different will. I think Sirius took his circumstances into consideration when doing out his last will and testament.

Harry was underage, in no position to harbor a fugitive, and Sirius's godson, which I think made it plausible and safe to leave everything to him in the will, and assured that Grimmauld place could still be used as Order headquarters.


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  #31  
Old September 12th, 2012, 6:01 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Would've been nice and thoughtful if he'd also left Harry a note saying "Please give half the money to Remus." or something. Or maybe he hoped Harry would just do so anyways.

Funny how Harry just keeps inheriting all this great stuff (huge family fortune, Grimmauld Place, the Invisibility Cloak, Sirius' fortune). Sirius was lucky he wasn't disinherited before his parents died and everything didn't go to Narcissa (since Bellatrix was in jail and Andromeda disinherited).


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  #32  
Old September 12th, 2012, 9:03 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Would've been nice and thoughtful if he'd also left Harry a note saying "Please give half the money to Remus." or something. Or maybe he hoped Harry would just do so anyways.

Funny how Harry just keeps inheriting all this great stuff (huge family fortune, Grimmauld Place, the Invisibility Cloak, Sirius' fortune). Sirius was lucky he wasn't disinherited before his parents died and everything didn't go to Narcissa (since Bellatrix was in jail and Andromeda disinherited).
I don't know, it seems a hard way to get stuff. Just have all your parents and Godfather murdered by terrorists and you will inherit their estates.. I'm sure both Sirius and Harry would rather Sirius, James and Lily lived and not been murdered by Bella and her boss. And as Sirius was murdered we don't know if he planned to help Remus or not. We don't know if he offered Remus financial aid or not. We don't know because Sirius' life was cut short by his maniacal cousin.


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  #33  
Old September 13th, 2012, 4:43 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Why didn't anyone try to clear Sirius' name between PoA and OOTP? I mean, Dumbledore believed he was innocent, and they had the testimonies of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Remus and Snape (if DD forced him) to back it all up.

It's not like they had any MORE evidence to clear Sirius in OOTP when he was cleared, than they did back in PoA and GoF.


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  #34  
Old September 13th, 2012, 7:01 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

They would have had testimonies from the Death Eaters at the end of OoTP.


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  #35  
Old September 13th, 2012, 7:11 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Is that the explicit reason given for how his innocence was proven? They got the DEs to all say "Yeah, Peter Pettigrew is one of us and he framed Sirius"?


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  #36  
Old September 13th, 2012, 8:04 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

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Is that the explicit reason given for how his innocence was proven? They got the DEs to all say "Yeah, Peter Pettigrew is one of us and he framed Sirius"?
Actually I don't recall any particular reason for Sirius being cleared except 'he's dead now and it doesn't matter whether he was a DE or not.'


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  #37  
Old September 13th, 2012, 8:10 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

At the end of PoA, they had no evidence to use to clear Sirius.

It had been stated that the kids had been confunded, and none of the adults had witnessed Peter Pettigrew except Sirius and Lupin-- and Lupin was a werewolf and close friend of Sirius's.

I think the best that Dumbledore could have gotten at that point was an actual trial for Sirius, since he had never had one, but without the evidence to clearly prove Sirius's innocence it probably would have been a fruitless drain on goodwill and resources.

I think it was shown throughout GoF that Fudge was resisting the idea that Voldemort could arise again, that certain people he assumed guilty were actually innocent (like Sirius), and that certain people he believed trustworthy were actually Death Eaters (like Lucius Malfoy). Over the course of that year Fudge decided that Dumbledore was simply bidding for power and Harry was a crackpot.

Wolfbrother makes a good point: At the end of OotP, the Ministry has a bunch of Death Eaters in costody. Whether or not any of them sing, their existence confirms the tale that Dumbledore and Harry have been telling all along, plus Voldemort has been spotted by Aurors and the Minister himself.

At that point Dumbledore and the Order are back in good graces-- and can confirm that Sirius is not a Death Eater and was helping them fight Death Eaters. Aurors Kingsley Shacklebolt and Tonks can lend witness to that-- credible witnesses.

Since Sirius never actually had a trial, he doesn't even need a pardon. The Ministry can just declare his innocence and let the matter drop.


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  #38  
Old September 13th, 2012, 11:00 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Dumbledore was the head of the Wizengot in PoA and GoF, I'd think that would've counted for some kind of challenge to Sirius' case. And Fudge didn't really turn on everyone until the end of GoF, so he wouldn't have been a problem then either.


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  #39  
Old September 13th, 2012, 11:38 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Dumbledore had no proof though. He was the one who told that Sirius was secret keeper in the first place.

Come to think of it, proving Sirius' innocence would have likely meant revealing that he was an illegal Animagus.


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  #40  
Old September 13th, 2012, 11:40 pm
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Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Perhaps his actions during the war, as well as spending 13 years in jail for a crime he didn't commit, would be enough to get him pardoned for that as well. Or just grant him a license.


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