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The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2



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  #21  
Old February 23rd, 2010, 5:20 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

I think both, but more the second choice. Probably one of the main reasons Sirius ran away in the first place was because he was so sick of hearing how superior pure-bloods are from his family. He knew at a young age how wrong it was to base someone on their blood status. I like that about Sirius. Despite growing up in a Slytherin house full of people who believed that Volemort was great and being pure-blood made you "practically royal", he was able to turn away from those beliefs. I'm glad he didn't become a Slytherin...I like him too much


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Old February 24th, 2010, 2:50 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadLikeAHole View Post
One thing I've always wondered about Sirius - did he fight against blood supremacy because of his hatred for his family, or did he abandon his family because he hated blood supremacy? That's a discussion in itself.
I lean towards the first choice, because I think it was his hatred of his family that may have started his hatred of everything they liked and since they liked blood supremacy, he may have started opposing it, initially at least IMO.


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  #23  
Old February 24th, 2010, 4:23 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
I lean towards the first choice, because I think it was his hatred of his family that may have started his hatred of everything they liked and since they liked blood supremacy, he may have started opposing it, initially at least IMO.
I think the exposure to his family proved to Sirius how wrong they were about the blood purity creating better wizards. He saw first hand what blood supremacists were promoting and it didn't take a genius to prove to him they were barking. I think that Sirius' own intelligence was enough to make him want to leave his family and all they believed in as far behind him as he could.


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  #24  
Old February 24th, 2010, 5:04 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

1. Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?
I think it was an important part of being a Marauder, and it was important in the war-time climate they were in.

2. How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior?
IMO, Peter felt left out and a bit inferior. I believe these feelings may have factored into his later actions. As for Remus, I think he was happy with the friendship he got. I don't believe he felt left out or inferior, and I don't think he was in actuality either.

3. Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all?
I think it was process of elimination, coupled with his mysterious disappearances during the war (which were part of his mission with the werewolves). I've always thought Peter was good at misdirecting suspicion away from himself in subtle ways.

4. James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?
Both I think. It was a way of helping a friend in a meaningful way, and also for doing things that weren't possible in human form, such as romping around the grounds without being caught.

5. What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily?
They probably rolled their eyes whenever James did something to show his obsession. I think they were probably bemused with the situation, and probably teased him about it.

6. How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?
Once Lily and James got married, she may have been an honorary Marauder. But before that, she had her own friends that were separate from the Marauders, it seems. I think Lily mainly influenced James' behavior and indirectly encouraged/incited him to continue the rivalry with his main enemy. Later on, I think she also helped James' head to shrink.

7. James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?
I think Remus understood, especially given his condition. I think Peter would probably have been ok with it as well.

8. Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance?
It's hard to say whether Peter felt that he was in too deep and therefore had to keep going forward, or whether he truly believed in his decision and stuck by it willingly. It doesn't seem like the other Marauders are willing to forgive Peter. Maybe if they'd all lived (except James) at the end of the Voldemort wars and a number of years went by they'd be able to forgive him.

9. Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow?
I'm not sure about Peter, but I think James, Sirius and Remus all made the decision on their own. I think each one of them was strong and brave enough to want to fight against Voldemort. Peter I'm not sure about. He may have been a bit pressured, because his personality was more suited to following where the stronger people went. Also, he only seemed courageous when he was in the shadow of stronger people rather than by himself.

10. How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?
I think the Marauders were more about adventure and the Weasley twins were more about humor.

11. Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly?
My take on them is neither good nor bad. As children, I see them as having behaved badly in some cases and having strong ties of friendship to one another. Since we only see a few snapshots of their lives, snapshots that were meant to show them in a poor light (mainly to show us what James was like as a boy), the tendency may be to think of them as acting this way all the time. Personally, I believe they had their good and bad moments. As adults, we never really get much information on what they were like when they all hung out together before the war, but I'm optimistic and like to think they were a close-knit group (except I do think Peter may still have felt a little distanced from the rest of the Marauders).

12. Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits?
Remus. I like his kindness and his bravery in fighting against Voldemort. I also feel he was a great teacher and mentor to Harry and also Neville. As a child, I think Remus was probably the kindest one of the Marauders, but he also must have had a mischievous streak (but I don't believe his brand of mischief ever involved cruelty or spitefulness). I accept his flaws as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadLikeAHole View Post
One thing I've always wondered about Sirius - did he fight against blood supremacy because of his hatred for his family, or did he abandon his family because he hated blood supremacy? That's a discussion in itself.
I believe it was the second choice, because Sirius would have gotten an in-depth look at the ideology his family was subscribing to, and I don't think he liked it at all. If his family hadn't been so involved with the pureblood mania and the other ideals Voldemort advocated, I don't think he'd have rebelled quite so much.


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  #25  
Old February 24th, 2010, 6:00 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadLikeAHole View Post
One thing I've always wondered about Sirius - did he fight against blood supremacy because of his hatred for his family, or did he abandon his family because he hated blood supremacy? That's a discussion in itself.
I got the feeling that it was both, but more so the first reason. I feel this way because he talks about his family so much and he seems like the kind of person who would rebel against his family even if they were the Weasleys. I think if there were blood supremacists in his family but they did not try to push their beliefs on everyone, he would not have had as many problems, but their wanting to control his beliefs is what really did it for him. It's the control aspect.


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  #26  
Old February 24th, 2010, 6:45 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Quote:
One thing I've always wondered about Sirius - did he fight against blood supremacy because of his hatred for his family, or did he abandon his family because he hated blood supremacy? That's a discussion in itself.
I would say that both had an influence over him, but the first is probably what came first in his character development. He loathed his family to such a degree that anything they promoted would automatically repulse him, and as he grow into his own mind and opinions, he would realize how much he disagreed with blood-supremacy in its own right. If he hadn't entirely disavowed it by age thirteen, the discovery of Remus's condition probably would have acted as a tangible fork in the road for him: stay friends with this guy and deny everything your family believes in, or dump him to hold by your family's traditions. Somehow, I doubt he ever seriously considered the latter, but it may have been that that situation solidified his beliefs in a definitive way. He was, after all, still very young.


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  #27  
Old February 24th, 2010, 10:17 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?
I don't think that this was unfair--Sirius unrealistically expected that everyone was a loyal as him.

How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior?
Probably a bit of both. James and Sirius were extremely talented, good-looking, and popular. It would be hard to to feel jealous around them, especially as a werewolf (not that this mattered to anyone except Lupin) or a not-so-talented tag-along.

Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all?
Peter probably tried to make Lupin look guilty. (Sort of like what Iago did to Cassio in Shakespeare's Othello, although I doubt that Peter did it that elaborately.)

James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?
For James and Sirius, I believe that this was both nobel and adventurous. However, Peter only did it to be included in the group IMO.

What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily?
He REALLY liked her, so they were probably surprised about that. However, she was a nice girl so they liked her. I don't think that they understood how much he really liked her.

How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?
Not so much. The Marauders joined the Order, didn't they? James obviously spent much less time with them.

James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?
Understanding, I'd hope. Sirius and James were always best friends, so they were used to being a little left out. Also, there was a war going on.

Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance?
I think that he regretted it after he told Voldemort, because it was then that he realized Voldemort would never treat him as anything better than dirt. He realized that love was more important than power. However, he was a coward, so he didn't change his ways. This is an instance that is by no means easy to forgive. I don't think that his friends would have been able to forgive him, especially with all of his lying in the Shrieking Shack in PoA.

Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow?
I think that they would have all joined willingly, except maybe Peter. Peter was more interested in "the biggest bully on the playground" rather than the battle between good and evil.

How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?
They both love a joke. However, according to Harry, James and Sirius went a lot farther than the twins.

Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly?
I've always been quite biased, so I shouldn't answer this question.

Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits?
This is a really good question! But very hard to answer.
First off, I'd like to say that I didn't like Peter. He only liked the Marauders for their position of power, not for who they are as people.
I think that Lupin was a great teacher, and he said a lot of smart things.
I like Sirius' passion and loyalty--in that sense, he is much like a dog. Loyal and always willing: a great companion.
I can't pinpoint exactly why, but I've always loved James the most. I don't know if perhaps its the way that he loves Lily, or what. But I would love to read more about him!


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  #28  
Old February 25th, 2010, 9:29 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

[*]Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?

Sirius said he would die. Words are easy to be spoken. The real life can be different.

[*]Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all?

Remus was a werewolf. There is a lot of prejudice against the werewolves in WW. I think it was enough to make him a suspect.

[*]James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?

Both.

[*]What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily?
What obsession?

[*]How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?

I hope not. I hope she was here to show James what the common sense was.

[*]James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?

I think not. I think they know that J & S had a very special relationship.

[*]How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?

The Weasley twins were not bullies. They were sometimes reckless and thoughtless, but rarely cruel (except the Montague incident). I don't think we can compare them to the Marauders.

[*]Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly?

DH changed my opinion about Remus, but not about the Marauders as the group.


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  #29  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 3:39 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

I'm afraid I don't have an answer for the poll. IF I believed Sirius was truly a 'dog', perhaps I would choose that. However, I believe Sirius' animagus form was actually the Grim - says it straight out in his nickname - and I think that fits his reckless attitude towards searching out adrenaline-pumping adventure. I certainly would not want to be that.

As for Peter's rat form, there are nice things to be said for it. Rats can be very sweet, lovable creatures. Unfortunately, we seem to be working on stereotypes for this and so becoming a rat implies betrayal is in your nature. I do not see myself in that way at all.

And lastly even tho' a stag seems to be all about the antlers and rutting (as in fighting for position to achieve the female's favor) - at least that appears to be a large part of 5th year James' inner nature - stags were also symbols of sacrifice from the middle ages. I suppose because they were so hunted. A stag seems to be preferable therefore, but I'm not positive I would WANT to be one.

I would most likely be a dog myself - just not one like Sirius.



Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder? I think this can be considered an integral part of being a Marauder AND be unfair at the same time.

I think Sirius truly believed that he would die for his friends. He even made plans to do so with the SK switch, by his intention to draw attention to himself and let Peter hide. He even ensured that he could not reveal the secret under torture since he was not the SK. However, I do NOT believe he ever truly gave Peter the feeling that he would die for him. It was all still about protecting James. Considering the way we see him belittle Peter in 5th year, I'm pretty sure Peter did not believe Sirius valued hi as highly as he did the others.

But Peter betrayed them long before the SK switch. So, it is more than just a fear of death. He had ample opportunities to come clean and admit that he had been marked. Albus might have even been able to use him as another spy. But that would mean risking his life as a spy on Voldy. And perhaps Peter really didn't feel as close to James as Sirius did.

How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior? I certainly feel it affected Peter. It cannot be good for one's self-esteem to hang around people who either belittle you or for whom you feel you must become something of a toady fan section. There is always the possibility that with the support of his friends he COULD have become a much more self-confident and courageous person.

It's harder to say how it affected Remus. His main problem stems from fearing rejection for his lyncanthropy. It becomes hard to separate whether this held him back from speaking his bit and being a good prefect or whether IF he felt included in the closeness between James and Sirius WOULD he have felt secure enough in their friendship to disagree with them. Hard to say. But his fear of rejection follows him all the way through the books. He tends to do what is 'easy' when it comes to keeping other's good opinion - rather than what's 'right' and standing up to his friends (like Neville). Whether a tighter friendship as a kid could have changed that is unclear.

Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all? I don't believe Peter had to work all that hard to discredit Remus. I think all he had to do was act more and more pathetic. I do NOT believe Remus' lyncanthropy had anything to do with the mistrust of Remus. I truly believe it did not matter to Sirius or James. And we do not see any evidence that Remus was associating with other werewolves in VW1. We in fact see the opposite, since he so dislikes the work and seems bitter about being 'made' for the job in bk6.

I personally think the reason Remus was suspected was merely because neither Sirius nor James could possibly believe Peter could fool them.

James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?It was noble to wish to help him. It was NOT noble to release him from the Shack. For Sirius, at least, we can see in SWM that it was adventurous, since he wishes for the full moon. I would assume it was also a fun adventure for James as well, we just do not have canon to show one way or the other. However, Sirius' words to Harry, that the 'risk' is what would have made it fun for James, imply that Sirius believed Jaes saw it as fun as well.

I have my doubts about just how 'fun' it was for Peter. He's much smaller. An easy mouthful for a werewolf - for that matter, we have Padfoot living off eating rats in bk4, so an easy mouthful for him as well (tho' I'm not sure Peter would have worried about that at the time).

But he could easily get trampled by any or all three of his friends. He cannot possibly keep up with them. So he either must ride on Prongs or Padfoot or get left behind.

What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily? I'm not sure. I tend to think they might have been a bit bewildered by it. Why keep after a girl who doesn't seem to like you? However, it seems that James felt that 'banter' was a form of flirting, so he probably saw her complaints as a move in the right direction. He certainly made sure that Lily would come in on SWM.

How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak? I do not believe Lily became a 5th Marauder - at least not before they were married if at all. Are we even sure she was ever let in on the fact that Remus was a werewolf? It would seem silly if she never guessed, but I cannot recall any hints that she actually DID know... I would say that they worked to keep secrets from her at least through the end of school and probably until after the wedding. I highly doubt she would have been happy to find out that James was still hexing an ex-friend of her while she was led to believe he had stopped all that.

James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision? I can't really say for Peter, however, he had become a spy for Voldy VERY soon after Harry's birth. I cannot believe he would have wanted Harry as a godchild, when he had already promised to betray him. Altho' it might have made things even easier?

And I think Remus at the time would believe himself to be too much of a risk to be godfather. Wolfsbane Potion had not yet been invented. What would he have done with a baby on full moons?

Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance? I think they MIGHT have been able to forgive him IF he had come straight back from being marked and confessed to Albus (NOT the Marauders)

Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow? I think Peter felt some pressure to join up. I'm not sure whether he would have done so if the others did not.. Remus I believe would have joined either way. He felt some indebtedness to Albus for allowing him an education. I think the only reason Remus was not a 'full-time' fighter was his need to work for a living.

How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?While I think the Twins were less intentionally cruel, I think they also endangered others at times and did not always think things through. I have problems with both groups.

Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly? I don't see either Sirius or Peter coming off any better or worse after DH. However, both Remus and James came off worse - but 'in-character'

Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits? I prefer Remus - I think he had the potential to finally grow up and that with a few years as a father hopefully he would have. I feel certain that the Marauders did NOT value these traits since Remus felt he could not speak up about them. The trait that I most dislike in him is his need to appear 'lovable' even to the point of endangering others.


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  #30  
Old March 3rd, 2010, 12:16 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

[*]Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?

It was an integral part of being Sirius. He would have died for his friends. This was proved when he (as he thought), painted a large bulls-eye on his chest. As to whether it was fair to expect it of the other Marauders is more difficult. I think James and Remus would not have hesitated to stand in front of any of the group. Peter, I think knew in his heart he could not, would not do it. This knowledge probably ate at him. He could not measure up to the others in bravery and self-sacrifice and he probably came to the conclusion it would be foolish on his part to try.

[*]How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior?

Peter probably always felt inferior. Remus, I think was too level-headed to feel such a foolish emotion.

[*]Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all?

I think Remus was absent a lot at that time. Probably on Order business that DD kept quiet about. I think it would have been all too easy for Peter too drop some hints and queries about his absence and lay the ground work of suspicion in Sirius' mind.

[*]James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?

This was in my mind both noble and adventurous. They did it to help a friend first and foremost, but it was also, fun.

[*]What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily?

He probably got ribbed something terrible over it. That's something young boys do when one of their own falls for a girl big-time.

[*]How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?

I don't think Lily would have had that much influence when they were at school. She became James' girlfriend in their 7th year. At that time, bearing in mind that she and James were Head Boy and Girl and that they were in the throes of getting ready to leave school and join the Order, there probably was not that much time to worry about adventures and such. They were becoming adults and probably moving away from childish things. Also there was a war to fight and they were planning on fighting in it.


[*]James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?

Of course Remus would have understood, Peter may have taken a hurt to cherish.

[*]Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance?

I think that if Peter had gone to his friends and told them what he had done, they would at first have been very angry with him, but at the same time they would have done their best to get him out of harm's way. Afterwords I think they would have probably forgiven him. But this is something that Peter would never have done. He probably told himself over and over that he had no choice, he had to do what he did and his friends would have ended up dead anyway.
[*]Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow?

I think Peter may have followed in the wake in the first flush of school leaving etc, but that flush would have died out in the reality of the war. I think the other three and Lily were fully committed to fighting LV and DE with every breath in their bodies.

[*]How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?

I don't think anybody had as much sheer joy in living as the Twins. I think the Marauders loved having their adventures and such but the Twins are in a class by themselves.

[*]Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favorably or came out badly?

I really love the Marauders. They prove that even when things are bad, like they were for Remus, life is worth enjoying. If any people in the books embody the old saying 'when life hands you lemons, make lemonade.' it's them.

[*]Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits?

I really like them all as schoolboys, they had bad moments but by and large I think they were good kids, most of the time. Even Peter I can feel empathy for. ?He was sch a miserable specimen of a human being, but when he was a schoolboy his life was open to other possibilities. It is such a pity he blew it as an adult.


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Old March 3rd, 2010, 4:04 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

1. Sirius would have died for his friends and expected the same from Peter. Was this unfair or was this an integral part of being a Marauder?

It was naive. Especially considering teenage-Peter's behaviour and Sirius's own words in PoA (that he'd always been sneaky and seeking protection).

2. How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior?

I don't think they did - some people juts "click" better with each other than with others; that doesn't make them less close to Peter and Remus.

3. Why was Remus the main suspect in 1981? Did Peter have a walk-over to discredit Remus if he did so at all?

The almighty Plot Reason. It's flimsy, since so much emphasis is placed in the books on their loyalty and how it was seen as dishonorable not to trust your friends completely, but the plot needed a reason for Remus not to be in on the switch, and this one was given. I can't really find any other fitting and convincing explanation.

4. James, Sirius and Peter became Animagi for Remus. Was this noble or adventurous?

It was both, in my opinion. It was a sign of love, too.

5. What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily?

We don't know. My guess is they probably liked to make loving fun of it, going by Sirius's comment at the end of Snape's Wort Memory.

6. How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?

Going by canon, she didn't in the slightest. She was obviously very close to them (her letter), but I don't think she influenced their dynamics.

7. James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?

We have no way of knowing, but I'd say understanding. Well, Peter might not have cared at all, seeing that he had no value for their lives, let alone their friendship.

8. Peter betrayed his friends. Was he ever happy with this decision and do you think that his friends would be able to forgive him if they had the chance?

James and Lily were killed as a direct consequence of his actions. I'm pretty confident this would count as unforgivable for anyone but an actual saint. As for being happy, he certainly never show remorse - and this is one of the most shocking (to the point of pushing believability) things in the books. I mean, what kind of a monster never expresses even the tiniest bit of regret for having betrayed people who trusted him and loved him, for having had them murdered?? If he was really this cruel and so dead inside, how come they never noticed that, if they were so close? This issue, that they never suspected Peter at all, that they never saw anything unsettling about him, about his behaviour, still baffles me. It would have been so much more convincing if Peter had shown a sign of remorse, of realisation of the scope of horror he had caused - and to his closest friends, too! Then he would have been more human and therefore being deluded about him for years wouldn't have seemed so inexplicable. I mean, they were supposed to know him as well as anyone.

9. Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow?

That's a very interesting question, and I would love to read more about that time, hopefully in some future book. But for Remus, I'm inclined to think he would have joined out of his own free will - he was a member of an oppressed group, and a very righteous person, plus he was brave. The right combination to try and make waves.

10. How do the Marauders compare to Fred and George? Do you think that they, and especially James and Sirius, were worse or just as (un)funny as the Weasley twins?

In my view, while Fred and George's central characteristic and reason for existence in the novels is their pranking and the humour they add, that was a secondary thing with the Marauders. They might have been the Weasley twins of their generation, but the in the books, they serve different purposes.

As for unfunny, judging by Sirius and James's behaviour and language in Snape's Worst Memory, yeah, they must have been just as unfunny (I don't find the twins very funny, to be honest).

11. Did Deathly Hallows change your mind about the Marauders? Do you think that they were portrayed favourably or came out badly?

It gave me a vital (in my opinion) missing link in James's development - when Remus says "He would have considered it the height of dishonesty to not trust his friends", that is the evidence I'd been wanting that James did indeed evolve. It's not much, but it's definitely better than nothing, because pre-DH, he was just a teenage jerk to me.

I was surprised by Remus's story arch in DH. I thought it came out of nowhere and wasn't really consistent with his character.

12. Which Marauder do you like best and what are the traits that endear him to you? Did the other Marauders appreciate these traits?

Sirius - he's an interesting, complicated character, well fleshed-out and sufficiently unpredictable.


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Old March 4th, 2010, 12:49 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

After reading Yoana's post, I'm going to add to my answer to the last question. I still LIKE Remus best out of the 4, but I also find Sirius to be the most interesting for analysis purposes.


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Old March 4th, 2010, 2:20 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

^Same goes for me. Sirius is my favorite and I also enjoy him for analyzing purposes because his life was so interesting. I love Remus too, though.


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Old March 11th, 2010, 8:08 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

How did James' and Sirius' particularly close friendship influence Remus and Peter? Did they feel left out or inferior?

For Peter it really did affect him, and I think it was the main reason why he chose to become a Death Eater-To join a group where he would be valued and maybe honored, which he didn't seem to get being a marauder. About feeling inferior, he was always made to feel that at school, as can be seen in the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory". Although this was done with no hard feelings in mind but Peter didn't see through it and took it deeply.

Remus has always been hard to crack, and like hwyla said, it can be attributed to his lycanthropy. But I would like to think otherwise. Agreed he had the fear of rejection, but then the closeness of James and Sirius did nothing but add onto that fear. He could always see them going about so well, that he felt that they didn't need him except when it was full moon. But then Remus was always the more mature kind, he could see the effort they had put in to keep him company when he needed them. Moreover I think Remus didn't really mind it much because somewhere he knew that he couldn't be like James and Sirius.
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Originally Posted by hwyla View Post
However, I do NOT believe he ever truly gave Peter the feeling that he would die for him. It was all still about protecting James. Considering the way we see him belittle Peter in 5th year, I'm pretty sure Peter did not believe Sirius valued him as highly as he did the others.
It wasn't only Sirius who treated Peter that way, James did the same, only Remus thought that they should treat Peter better. The reason for this can be that Remus had a less inflated head and he could imagine himself in Peter's shoes to feel bad for him.

I agree with you that Peter didn't believe that any of the marauders would stand out for him, and that I think is the mean reason why he joined the ranks of Death Eaters ( to be valued) but then I don't think it was entirely the fault of James, Sirius and Remus. Peter also never saw through their actions. When Sirius chose him over Remus, it was a clear indication that they trusted him.

Not only this, according to the plan when Dark Lord was to come after Sirius he would not disclose anything, he would rather die than talk about the switch. In this way he was also protecting Peter with his life and not only the Potters. But Peter never could see all this only because of how he had been treated earlier.

What did the other Marauders think about James' obsession with Lily? Here is what I think each one of them thought....
  • Sirius-He was loosing his fun-mate so I think he thought James was just being a fool for obsessing over a girl. For Sirius there were other things more interesting and worth pursuing (like giving hell to Snape) Apart from that I don't think he cared much.
  • Remus- I think he was quite happy that finally James was pursuing something worth the trouble for.
  • Peter- I think he was just in awe and maybe slightly jealous. In Awe because Lilly was beautiful and jealous because Lilly was beautiful. Well not only that he wanted to be like James (and Sirius) and whatever James did he would loved to have done.


How did Lily influence the dynamics within the Marauders? Did she become the fifth Marauder, so to speak?

I don't think so. The reason being, Lilly disapproved of what they did, so the thought of her joining in their actions is out of question. Moreover we have cannon telling us that when James had started dating Lilly in seventh year the marauders (James and Sirius mainly so to speak) continued to torment Snape and I don't see Lilly joining them with it.

James chose Sirius as godfather. Were Remus and Peter understanding or hurt by this decision?

I don't think either would have gotten hurt by it, because they both expected it for separate reasons. Remus because he knew how close Sirius and James were, plus I think maybe his rejection factor might have kicked in. Peter on the other hand because he had never been given a reason to believe that he would be chosen for something this important. However if anyone would have gotten hurt from the decision then I think it would have to be Remus.

Was joining the Order a joint decision or was peer pressure involved? For instance, did James and Sirius lead the way and Remus and Peter follow?


Free will for James, Sirius and Remus (for different reasons though) and peer pressure for Peter.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 1:21 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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I'm afraid I don't have an answer for the poll. IF I believed Sirius was truly a 'dog', perhaps I would choose that. However, I believe Sirius' animagus form was actually the Grim - says it straight out in his nickname - and I think that fits his reckless attitude towards searching out adrenaline-pumping adventure. I certainly would not want to be that.
How does "Padfoot" imply Sirius' Animagus form is the Grim?

Quote:
I think Sirius truly believed that he would die for his friends. He even made plans to do so with the SK switch, by his intention to draw attention to himself and let Peter hide. He even ensured that he could not reveal the secret under torture since he was not the SK. However, I do NOT believe he ever truly gave Peter the feeling that he would die for him. It was all still about protecting James. Considering the way we see him belittle Peter in 5th year, I'm pretty sure Peter did not believe Sirius valued hi as highly as he did the others.
He would have - if the plan had gone as expected, he would have been the decoy, a target for Voldemort.
Later, his escape from Azkaban is to protect Harry - he stays around after the Dementor Kiss is authorised -showing he is willing to risk life and soul for Harry. As he does again in GoF when he returns from hiding and in OotP when he goes to the Ministry. Sirius meant it when he said he would die for his loved ones, and proved it. I don't think it was just talk.

Quote:
But Peter betrayed them long before the SK switch. So, it is more than just a fear of death. He had ample opportunities to come clean and admit that he had been marked. Albus might have even been able to use him as another spy. But that would mean risking his life as a spy on Voldy. And perhaps Peter really didn't feel as close to James as Sirius did.
He could have, yes. And even if he hadn't felt able to spy, I'm sure they could have smuggled him out of the country. Or, he could have just left himself. I'm sure he would have seen at some point how Voldemort treated DEs who let him down, and would surely have seen that being a DE didn't guarantee his safety. As for not being close to someone, there's not being close to someone and there's telling a murderous madman where to find them. Sirius would not have done what Peter did - selling out a friend to save himself - that includes for Peter, if he had known that Peter was a target. Plus, it was probably expected of an Order member not to give away such information, under any circumstances.


Quote:
It's harder to say how it affected Remus. His main problem stems from fearing rejection for his lyncanthropy. It becomes hard to separate whether this held him back from speaking his bit and being a good prefect or whether IF he felt included in the closeness between James and Sirius WOULD he have felt secure enough in their friendship to disagree with them. Hard to say. But his fear of rejection follows him all the way through the books. He tends to do what is 'easy' when it comes to keeping other's good opinion - rather than what's 'right' and standing up to his friends (like Neville). Whether a tighter friendship as a kid could have changed that is unclear.
That does seem to be Lupin's biggest problem. It's a flaw, but I think it understandably stems from a childhood in which he expected to have no friends because of his condition and later, fears of his secret being discovered by his friends, or that it was "too good to last". I think he may have spent a lot of time worrying about the what ifs, and so was very reluctant to oppose or criticise.

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I would say that both had an influence over him, but the first is probably what came first in his character development. He loathed his family to such a degree that anything they promoted would automatically repulse him, and as he grow into his own mind and opinions, he would realize how much he disagreed with blood-supremacy in its own right. If he hadn't entirely disavowed it by age thirteen, the discovery of Remus's condition probably would have acted as a tangible fork in the road for him: stay friends with this guy and deny everything your family believes in, or dump him to hold by your family's traditions. Somehow, I doubt he ever seriously considered the latter, but it may have been that that situation solidified his beliefs in a definitive way. He was, after all, still very.
I tend to think that Sirius disliked his family because of their beliefs (possibly to do with Andromeda being disowned) rather than just choosing to rebel against prejudice because he hated his family and wanted to be awkward. If it had just been rebellion and he hadn't truly disliked prejudice, what was to stop things like "mudblood" or derogatory remarks from slipping out at some point? I think it would have been the end of his friendship with James if that had happened. And young kids don't watch what they say all the time.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 1:54 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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How does "Padfoot" imply Sirius' Animagus form is the Grim?

JKR, has taken the name Padfoot directly from English folklore. There are legends and folklore which feature black spectral dogs which portent death and in Yorkshire these dogs are known as Padfoot.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 2:11 am
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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JKR, has taken the name Padfoot directly from English folklore. There are legends and folklore which feature black spectral dogs which portent death and in Yorkshire these dogs are known as Padfoot.
Oh. Hadn't heard that! Thanks.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 12:02 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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He could have, yes. And even if he hadn't felt able to spy, I'm sure they could have smuggled him out of the country. Or, he could have just left himself. I'm sure he would have seen at some point how Voldemort treated DEs who let him down, and would surely have seen that being a DE didn't guarantee his safety.
While yes it would have been clear to Peter that ‘being a DE didn't guarantee his safety’ I think it would have been just as clear (probably clearer imo) that walking away from being a DE guaranteed his demise. People didn’t leave the DE look at what happened to Karkarov. As far as I can see the only way to leave the DE was feet first, so to speak and I can see Peter being very aware of this.

My personal take on his joining the DE was not so much that he sought them out to join them but that they sought him out. At this point his choice was very limited join or die – die or join; not an appealing one to say the least. I know that we are told of someone who was in a similar position and chose death but I think we need to remember what Peter was like (which imo was in all likelihood why Peter was targeted by the DE). He was someone who looked to stronger friends to keep him safe from threats, when a threat came to him that was bigger than his friends I suspect Peter didn’t feel like he had a choice (NB I am not saying Peter was right, or agreeing with him just looking at his PoV). Given what we hear Dumbledore saying in the first chapter of the series (1st good news we’ve had in 11 years) I think the war was gong Voldermort’s way and I think /suspect that there was a feeling that he was going to win the war soon even in the Order. Peter probably felt that his friends were not able to protect him from Voldermort (a fairly reasonable suspicion imo). As we see Voldermort travelling fairly frequently once he comes back, and we know that he travelled after leaving Hogwarts I don’t see how leaving the country would be, or seem like, any protection from Voldermort once he was marked for death.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 2:56 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

No - Peter's only hope was hiding as a rat - not in leaving the country.

And I agree that Peter might have felt he had no choice about accepting Voldy's offer. It certainly is the reason he gave in PoA. I figure once he was marked, his only hope for forgiveness from the Marauders was to become a spy on Voldy. And I wouldn't think he'd get it even then if he went to them first. He would have had to gone to Albus.


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And when that day would come, that he had better have the appropriate memories that would enable him to lie to Voldy's face.
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Old March 24th, 2010, 7:01 pm
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Re: The Marauders: Group Character Analysis v.2

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While yes it would have been clear to Peter that ‘being a DE didn't guarantee his safety’ I think it would have been just as clear (probably clearer imo) that walking away from being a DE guaranteed his demise. People didn’t leave the DE look at what happened to Karkarov. As far as I can see the only way to leave the DE was feet first, so to speak and I can see Peter being very aware of this.
I'm sure he was aware of this, but, for someone who has been shown to look to others for leadership and advice, he doesn't seem to have sought the help of his friends, Dumbledore, or the Order. I think he felt "better mocked and cruciated as an ally than AK'ed as an enemy."

Quote:
My personal take on his joining the DE was not so much that he sought them out to join them but that they sought him out. At this point his choice was very limited join or die – die or join; not an appealing one to say the least. I know that we are told of someone who was in a similar position and chose death but I think we need to remember what Peter was like (which imo was in all likelihood why Peter was targeted by the DE). He was someone who looked to stronger friends to keep him safe from threats, when a threat came to him that was bigger than his friends I suspect Peter didn’t feel like he had a choice (NB I am not saying Peter was right, or agreeing with him just looking at his PoV).
I also think it was most likely the DEs who sought Peter out, rather than the other way around. I think he would have preferred to stay under the radar, to be honest, and I doubt he was too happy as a member of the group known to be opposing people like Voldemort and the DEs. (Known to Voldemort, that is, not sure about the Ministry) I can see what you mean about Peter's point of view, but I still think what he did was vile.

Quote:
Given what we hear Dumbledore saying in the first chapter of the series (1st good news we’ve had in 11 years) I think the war was gong Voldermort’s way and I think /suspect that there was a feeling that he was going to win the war soon even in the Order. Peter probably felt that his friends were not able to protect him from Voldermort (a fairly reasonable suspicion imo).
Which just goes to show that everyone was in the same boat - they didn't all turn traitor, though.


Quote:
As we see Voldermort travelling fairly frequently once he comes back, and we know that he travelled after leaving Hogwarts I don’t see how leaving the country would be, or seem like, any protection from Voldermort once he was marked for death.
When he was younger, Voldemort travelled to learn as much magic as he could. In DH, he travelled in search of the Elder Wand. I think if Peter had disappeared shortly after he was approached, Voldemort would have had more important things to attend to than an AWOL minor spy. Rumours could have been spread that he was discovered and killed by the Order, he could have been hidden.

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No - Peter's only hope was hiding as a rat - not in leaving the country.

And I agree that Peter might have felt he had no choice about accepting Voldy's offer. It certainly is the reason he gave in PoA. I figure once he was marked, his only hope for forgiveness from the Marauders was to become a spy on Voldy. And I wouldn't think he'd get it even then if he went to them first. He would have had to gone to Albus.
I still think he could have left the country, faking his death, etc. I don't think he would have had the nerve to spy on Voldemort, to put himself in that kind of danger. He probably lacked the Occlumency skill to have lied, as it's an "obscure branch of magic". Which makes me wonder how he managed to lie to Dumbledore, although I suppose DD wasn't using Legilimency on the Order to the extent Voldemort was on his DEs.

I have a major problem with him insisting he had no choice -there's always a choice, even if the alternative is awful, and it's a choice he made for over a year.

I think, if he'd gone to the Marauders when he was first approached -before he'd started spying in earnest, they would have understood - it was continuing to spy that made it despicable.


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