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James Potter: Character Analysis v.4



View Poll Results: Can James in any way be blamed for what happened in 1981?
Yes, he should have chosen Dumbledore as Secret Keeper. 40 12.31%
Partly. He and Lily should not have agreed to switch to Peter. 26 8.00%
No, he could not have anticipated such a betrayal. Hindsight is twenty-twenty. 110 33.85%
No, he trusted his friends, something that paid off for Harry in DH, despite Remus' warning. 89 27.38%
The only one to blame is Voldemort. 43 13.23%
Oh dear, I never like Moriath's options. 8 2.46%
Something else entirely that hopefully doesn't include Snape. 9 2.77%
Voters: 325. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old January 10th, 2010, 9:35 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by RavenStar83 View Post
I have a question. Does the last poll option "Something else entirely that hopefully doesn't include Snape." mean you think the blame lies somewhere/on someone else that's not Snape, or you just don't want to involve Snape in this discussion period due to past craziness in these boards?
Sorry, was stuck at the airport for longer than is healthy. Ahem. The latter. This thread should be about James and I kind of, sort of tried to anticipate anything that might make this about Snape.


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  #62  
Old January 10th, 2010, 9:50 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

The problem with the switch to Peter as the SK was James and Sirius overestimating Peter's regard for them. Why they assumed the little sychophant had the same loyalty to them that they had for each other is really a puzzle to me. It really didn't take very long for Peter to decide that the safest place for him was with Voldemort; he was spying for a year before the final betrayal.


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  #63  
Old January 10th, 2010, 9:54 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

Again, he was one their closest friends. If you can't trust those closest to you, who can you trust?

And Peter had proven loyal to them before - he never told anyone that Remus was a werewolf, did he? He likely kept tons of smaller secrets for them over the years as a friend in the Marauders and as a member of the OOTP.


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  #64  
Old January 10th, 2010, 10:27 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

And it's not like Peter was open about joining up with Voldemort. No one in the Order seemed to suspect that he didn't mean it when he claimed to be on their side. He seemed to have been very good at the double agent thing.


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Old January 10th, 2010, 10:36 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

Just because readers might see Peter as a sycophant based on his ONE appearance in canon when young and his subsequent appearances as a DEATH EATER - doesn't mean that is how his friends would see him. I think that is what JKR took into account when she wrote. I have to imagine that there isn't a reader alive who'd consider having Peter as a friend - or others that we only saw in their worst light. James knew Peter under far different circumstances for a long period of time and would have a more rounded view of his character - as an Order member, friend, etc., than we could get from the canon we were given.


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  #66  
Old January 10th, 2010, 11:12 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Just because readers might see Peter as a sycophant based on his ONE appearance in canon when young and his subsequent appearances as a DEATH EATER - doesn't mean that is how his friends would see him. I think that is what JKR took into account when she wrote. I have to imagine that there isn't a reader alive who'd consider having Peter as a friend - or others that we only saw in their worst light. James knew Peter under far different circumstances for a long period of time and would have a more rounded view of his character - as an Order member, friend, etc., than we could get from the canon we were given.
I've answered in the Peter thread.


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Old January 10th, 2010, 11:16 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
Again, he was one their closest friends. If you can't trust those closest to you, who can you trust?

And Peter had proven loyal to them before - he never told anyone that Remus was a werewolf, did he? He likely kept tons of smaller secrets for them over the years as a friend in the Marauders and as a member of the OOTP.
Of course he didn't squeal on them to the school authorities; he was right there running with the werewolf -- even enabling the werewolf to get out of the Shrieking Shack. IOW there was no advantage for him to tattle about that and their animagus forms. In fact there was actually a risk to him if he did so.

He wasn't a loyal member of the Order for a great length of time at any rate. Admittedly there's no canon, but I believe he approached Voldemort rather than the reverse.


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  #68  
Old January 10th, 2010, 11:45 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I think we have an overly negative view of Peter. That's not to say he doesn't deserve it. I mean, he sold out his best friend. That's not something you can do without some serious issues there. However, we see people and events through the eyes of Harry. While not a first person perspective, we still know Harry's thoughts, feelings, fears, etc. So it only comes as natural that Harry would see Peter as a thoughtless, cowardly sycophant without seeing anything else. The man is responsible for the death of his parents and the 12-year prison sentence of the man closest to the real thing. However, I think there is more to Peter than just the craven sycophant. There had to be. There would be no reason for James and Sirius to so much as give Peter the time if there wasn't. They were the coolest kids in Hogwarts, which essentially gave them carte blanche when it came to social dealings. They could be arrogant. They could be cruel. The populace would still love them. Why, then, would they choose to hang around Peter, who wasn't very talented? There must have been something.

Anyway, back to James. I don't think it was a mistake to trust Peter. It makes sense. What would Voldemort want with Peter? If he wasn't the spy, there would be no reason to try and find him. Peter was never very good at anything, really. It'd be a waste of effort to try and take Peter out, when more time could be spent getting Lily and James, or Sirius, or the Prewetts or the McKinnons or some of the other wizards Moody told Harry about. It was a sound plan in principle, it just so happened Peter was a spy. Think about it. In chess, which pieces do you really want to take (besides the king?) You want the queen, the rook, the bishop, the knight. It'd be like targeting a pawn and letting the most powerful pieces run free. Although, as it turns out, if you neglect the pawns, they can really hurt you.


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  #69  
Old January 11th, 2010, 2:34 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I see that the James thread is having trouble keeping on the topic of James,

I know it is hard to move the discussion to the Peter thread, but you'll notice that some of the people who are very familiar with the rules have been trying to do that.

There is a Marauders Group Character Analysis tread, too.


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  #70  
Old January 11th, 2010, 8:58 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
How is it naive to expect one of your closest friends who is in the same top-secret crime-fighting organization as you to be willing to risk their life to help you?
Because you consider him a weak, talentless thing?

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How is it naive to expect that same friend will do this by doing his duty as secret-keeper?
Same answer as above. How will a weak wizard be able to keep a secret if he was caught?

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The people in the OOTP are little different than Aurors in what they have to do. It wouldn't be any more unreasonable for James to expect Peter to do his job than it would for Harry to expect the same of his Aurors.
It would not be unreasonable for James to expect that from Sirius or Remus. But to expect that from a a wizard about whom James and Sirius have no opinion whatsoever is not reasonable at all IMO.


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  #71  
Old January 11th, 2010, 10:02 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods
Because you consider him a weak, talentless thing?
I'm not sure you can take Sirius' word here. I don't think they considered him a weak and talentless thing when he was made SK.


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  #72  
Old January 11th, 2010, 10:26 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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I'm not sure you can take Sirius' word here. I don't think they considered him a weak and talentless thing when he was made SK.
They did IMO. That's what Sirius says in POA. They never thought such a weak and talentless thing like Peter could be a DE. They thought he would never have the courage for that IMO.

I think James did not think this carefully and more importantly he did not consult anyone else. Dumbledore or Moody might have helped him; but I think he made a mistake when he accepted Sirius' suggestion and acted according to that.


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  #73  
Old January 11th, 2010, 11:01 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I think the "weak and talentless" bit from Sirius was exaggeration. All Sirius' thoughts on Peter are based on hindsight and after years of brooding in Azkaban. I took it to mean that they never thought it was in Peter's nature to become a DE.
I don't see how Dumbledore or Moody would have made a difference. Peter fooled everyone. Lily also did not appear to have any issues with Sirius' plan.
I don't think you can fault Sirius and James for trusting their friend.


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  #74  
Old January 11th, 2010, 8:20 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I thought I'd dig myself into this thread as well, since James is such a contradictory character to me. Apologies in advance if my replies are a little thin, but James isn't my particular field of study, as many of you might know.

What are James' greatest strengths? What his greatest weaknesses?

I think his greatest strength is his faithfulness. Once wun, he'd be a friend forever, through thick and thin. His weakness lies, if you ask me, in his inability to see people for what they are, or how other people see them. He has very set opinions, if you ask me.

Do you think James had ulterior motives for saving Snape in the Shack incident or was he doing the right thing on instinct?

I'm fairly sure he did it on instinct, but not for the right reasons, if that makes sense.

Which qualities do you think made Dumbledore choose James as Head Boy?

To be quite frank, it could be because he'd get a chance to stay out of trouble. He's also know as being quite intelligent, but we also know he was a troublemaker, so it can't be because of his personality as such.

What do you think about James throwing himself in Voldemort's way and dying wandless? Foolish or very brave or both?

Foolish. Casting an AK curse takes a mere second; it wasn't as if it bought anyone more time. I'm also mystified as to why on Earth he was wandless to begin with, knowing how his entire family was under a death threat (the same, btw, goes for Lily).

James is Harry’s father but he died before Harry had the chance to get to know him. Is he a good role model? Would he have become a good father? How has he influenced Harry’s present life?

I think the James that Harry knows before OotP is a very good father; the image Harry has of him is the image of a devoted and brave father and husband, and regardless of the truth of that image, it seems to be helpful to Harry. It is, however, canon that Harry changes hiw views of his father after SWM. The major difference between the two, if you ask me, is that James seems to have broken a lot of school rules simply because he could, while Harry honestly does it because he thinks it's for the greater good.

Why did James choose Sirius over Dumbledore as Secret Keeper? Didn’t he trust Dumbledore with his life?

I believe he did, but I also think he wanted to trust one of his best friends even more. Plus, I think there might have been an aspect of showing to the world that someone from the (in)famouse house of Black could indeed be trusted with such matters - at least it makes sense to me, given what I know of them both.

James made Sirius Harry’s godfather. Was this a good decision?

Both yes and no. Sirius is, just like James, eternally devoted to his friends and the ones he loves. He is, however, very like Harry in the sense that he throws himself headfirst into danger and then has to be helped, and for a boy who's of the "I won't do as you say, I'll do as you do" nature like Harry is, he's probably not the best influence. Of course, James couldn't be expected to assume this from the brief time he knew Harry.

We got bits and pieces of James’ life. Has he matured over the years and become a better person?

It's hard to say, given that what we know of him as an adult (barely) is mostly through memories. My bet is no, though. His opinions as an adolescent were so set in stone, and he never really lived to mature and possibly change his views of things. It's normally experience rather than age than shapes people, and even if he had had a very rich life, his experiences at the age of 21 must have been somewhat limited.

How did DH change your view on James Potter?

No more than SWM did, really. One thing that I can't eve figure out about James is that while he is always spoken of as a lovely, supportive friend, I don't think we get to see much of him being so wonderful - on the contrary. Everything we know of his good sides is more or less hearsay, while there are canon evidence pointing elsewhere. That's why I can't really figure him out, I guess.

How did Lily's friendship with Snape influence James' behaviour?

As he seemed to make a sport out of hexing people in general, I'm not sure he'd have been kind to Severus without the connection to Lily, but as it is, I think it made it worse. If you're interested in a girl and she has a male best friend, it would probably put a strain on your feelings for him.

James supported his friend Remus Lupin financially after school. How do you interpret this piece of information?

It undeniably sounds very kind, and something that a good friend would do. From what I know, James wasn't short of money.

James and Lily were full-time Order members. How long do you think they kept fighting before they went into hiding? What does this say about James' character?

Given the timeline, they can't have been "out and about" for very long. Even so, it makes most sense that they went into hiding asap after realising there was a threat to their family. I'm not the best with timelines, though, so I can't really speculate on character traits based on it.


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  #75  
Old January 11th, 2010, 11:20 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I see that SusanBones has already tried once to get you to stick to the topic at hand - James.
I also see it didn't quite work.

Make it work. This thread is for James. Not Peter. Not Sirius. Follow her links or stick to the topic.


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  #76  
Old January 13th, 2010, 7:56 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I'd have to say that James did mature. I'd say that maybe Remus and Sirius would exaggerate their best friend's best qualities posthumously. That's their choice; they want to remember James in the best light. However, Dumbledore and McGonagall are probably better character witnesses than Sirius and Remus. Also, I think the ultimate character barometer is Lily. She absolutely loathed James in their fifth year. However, they ended up married. She must have seen some change in James's character to even consider going out with him. I think that most people's accounts of James as a good person are accurate. There are merely too many people who say he was great to assume that he remained the cocky, arrogant youth he was when he was 15.


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  #77  
Old January 13th, 2010, 8:48 am
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

I would have to say that the best measurement of James' character would come from the memorial at Godric's Hollow. The memorial was put up by the people of the WW. It is the last statement on his character by the people who knew him well and were not his best friends. He was someone who was admired and missed, I think the WW lost a a great deal when James was killed. He grew out of the spoiled brat stage to become a fine man and would have IMO been a strong influence on the WW's people for the better.


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  #78  
Old January 13th, 2010, 5:12 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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Originally Posted by FirstOne617 View Post
I'd have to say that James did mature.
What cannon evidence do you have for this?

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I'd say that maybe Remus and Sirius would exaggerate their best friend's best qualities posthumously. That's their choice; they want to remember James in the best light.
Very true and, as you imply, very understandable.

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However, Dumbledore and McGonagall are probably better character witnesses than Sirius and Remus.
Well yes, he did make head boy which seems to indicate an improvement, however that is not the only possible reason. Also we know, iirc, that James was still breaking curfew, probably every month, to run around with a werewolf out of bounds. To me this does not indicate either a higher level of maturity or any deflating of his head (to quote Sirius) If he was engaging in that sort of behaviour it seems to me he was still putting his own fun above others safety and still believed he could get away with it.

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Also, I think the ultimate character barometer is Lily. She absolutely loathed James in their fifth year. However, they ended up married.
Again Iím not sure that this indicates a change in him or in his behaviour around Lily. We know he hid some of what he did from her; Sirius tells us that much and I think it very unlikely that James mentioned his moonlight jaunts with the rest of the marauders Ė so again that doesnít seem to prove a real shift in his personality to me. Also I think we should bear in mind that while Lily did tell James off during SWM many reader have commented on her flirting with James, an idea that JKR herself has indicated to be a fair reflection of Lilyís behaviour Ė so I donít think it is particularly accurate to say Lily loathed James in the 5th year his behaviour certainly didnít seem to make her particularly impressed (although she did fight a smile when her friend was being hung upside down so I donít know if I could say anything mush stronger than Ďnot particularly impressedí)

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Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
I would have to say that the best measurement of James' character would come from the memorial at Godric's Hollow. The memorial was put up by the people of the WW. It is the last statement on his character by the people who knew him well and were not his best friends. He was someone who was admired and missed, I think the WW lost a a great deal when James was killed. He grew out of the spoiled brat stage to become a fine man and would have IMO been a strong influence on the WW's people for the better.
I think the monument had more to do with how the Potters died and the resulting disappearance of Voldemort. We donít know who put up the statue other than that they we members of the WW so we donít know if they knew James at all, let alone knew him well. Many people who arenít/werenít particularly Ďniceí have statues erected to them because they did something special Ė I think Voldemortís disappearance certainly counts as something special but I donít see how that tells us anything about his personality Ė jmho

I don't know I want to believe that James changed but I'm not sure I see any cannon evidence and I was willing to go along with what his mates said about him until I read JKR's prequel which looked to me like the same old behaviour - I just couldn't see any change


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  #79  
Old January 13th, 2010, 5:29 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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I think the monument had more to do with how the Potters died and the resulting disappearance of Voldemort. We donít know who put up the statue other than that they we members of the WW so we donít know if they knew James at all, let alone knew him well. Many people who arenít/werenít particularly Ďniceí have statues erected to them because they did something special Ė I think Voldemortís disappearance certainly counts as something special but I donít see how that tells us anything about his personality Ė jmho

I don't know I want to believe that James changed but I'm not sure I see any cannon evidence and I was willing to go along with what his mates said about him until I read JKR's prequel which looked to me like the same old behaviour - I just couldn't see any change
I am basing my opinion on the reaction to his death and Lily's just after it had occurred from McGonagol who was genuinely grieved at the deaths. I also don't see what was so bad about James' behaviour. We don't know that he was running the grounds after he was made Head Boy. I would have thought after the Shack incident with Sirius and Snape, Dumbledore would be keeping a sharper eye out for that kind of behaviour. I also thought that the little prequel showed him in a pretty good light. Taking out the DE's and having a good time doing it. I'm not saying that he was an angel, far from it, but I don't think he should be condemned for being a fool at 15 either.


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Old January 13th, 2010, 5:41 pm
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Re: James Potter: Character Analysis v.4

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I also thought that the little prequel showed him in a pretty good light. Taking out the DE's and having a good time doing it.
I think some fans feel unease because James and Sirius left Muggles to deal with unconscious DE's (if they were DE's and not Ministry officials or someone else?), who don't like Muggles and likely to be unhappy when they wake up. The Muggle policemen have no idea what these people are capable of.

I think the prequel does indeed show a great strong, loyal friendship between James and Sirius, certainly a zest for adventure and fun.



Last edited by Annielogic; January 13th, 2010 at 5:47 pm.
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