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  #81  
Old April 25th, 2008, 10:28 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Several of the reports have corrected this: it will be The Hobbit in two parts. This makes sense: I cannot see Christopher Tolkien selling the rights for a "fanfiction" movie.

Actually, the corrections were inaccurate. TORN has an authentic interview with Guillermo del Toro, which is later than those reports and surely supercedes them, not least because of his authority. He says that the Hobbit is one story for one movie, and the other film will fill the gap.... See the link I edited into my post above while you were posting yourself. It's worth reading.


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Old April 25th, 2008, 11:00 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

OK, easy question - if (fingers crossed) we have our original and best Gandalf in place, and the possibility of Andy Serkis re-creating Gollum - which should be easier now with the advancement in "capture" techniques - who else? Who will play Bilbo? How will they "do" the dwarves (hopefully not with such excruciating make-up as poor John Rhys-Davies had to suffer as Gimli).

The fact that we seem to have Jackson / New Zealand / Weta Digital / Fran and all the gang set up and ready makes me just want to smile - and breathe a sigh of relief. We trust them to bring us the story. We trust them to put as much effort into The Hobbit as they did with the trilogy.

It's going to be great! - But ... the actors - who will they cast?

Ideas?


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  #83  
Old April 25th, 2008, 11:56 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

This has been discussed on LotR forums for AGES. I am not going to bore you with all the theories.

Bilbo will be a new actor. Ian Holm can't come back. Opinions of fans are divided whether they should go for someone who looks Bilbo's age (50), or someone who looks young (to match up with the LotR Hobbit looks.

There have been various suggestions - Coli Firth for the 'old' look and James McAvoy for the 'young' look seem to be faviurites. But that's pure fan ideas with no relations to information from the film people.

I am with you in hoping that they won't do dwarves with heavy prothetic make-up again. I still don't see why Rhys Davies with that wig and beard and pretty much his own face couldn't have made just as splendid a Gimpli - and perhaps a better one, because he could have controlled his facial expressions better!

One would assume that some smaller roles could be reprised - Elrond comes to mind, perhaps Galadriel in the 'bridge' movie. Saruman would also be good, but whether Christopher Lee at his age, and after what happened to him in TTT/RotK will come back is a question....


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  #84  
Old April 26th, 2008, 12:28 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

I'm thinking that the Bridge film will be the rise of Sauron, the making of the Council and that kind of thing - fairly story-ish really, if done right.


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Old April 26th, 2008, 2:01 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

I found this online : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7366375.stm . I think Del Toro will be AMAZING! I'm excited that Gandalf will be the same, too. It'd just feel too weird if he wasn't.


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Old April 26th, 2008, 4:02 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Saruman would also be good, but whether Christopher Lee at his age, and after what happened to him in TTT/RotK will come back is a question....
Christopher Lee is interested in returning, and is in good health. I posted this earlier this year:

Quote:
Lee not only has impressive knowledge of golf and film, he also in something of an expert on the work of J.R.R. Tolkien.

“I remember first reading `The Lord of the Rings’ back in the 1950s,” Lee said. “I thought they would make great movies, but technically it couldn’t be done back then. I envisioned myself playing Gandolf (eventually played by Ian McKellen) but I did end up getting the part of Saruman.”

Noting that it was recently announced that Peter Jackson had agreed to film a couple of prequels about “The Hobbit,” Lee said he hoped that “Mr. Jackson” might found a place for him in those movies.

“I don’t know if that will happen but I would certainly be interested in doing it,” Lee said.

It would be surprising if Jackson couldn’t find a part for Christopher Lee, a man who has been a movie icon for more than 50 years and is still going strong.
And:
Quote:
Lee, who will turn 85 in May, shows no signs of slowing down. He appeared in “The Golden Compass” (2007) and has already completed work on “The Heavy” and “Boogie Woogie,” two films scheduled to be released this year.

“I still enjoy it and am in pretty good health,” Lee said. “I have a back problem but I’ve had that for years. As long as I’m able to get on the golf course, I’m happy.”
Read the full article here: Christopher Lee remains busy after 60 years of acting

Cate Blanchett is also on record as having expressed interest in returning. I don't have a link at this time, however.


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  #87  
Old April 26th, 2008, 8:35 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Aiwendil, thanks for these! I am really pleased to hear that Christopher lee would still be interested.

And really, who, apart from Cate Blanchett, could do Galadriel? It's great to hear that she has expressed an interest, too...

Of course, their work in NZ would be a few days, rather than weeks, one would assume, so they could fit it round Blanchett's busy schedule - and, now that she has had another child, her family life, too!


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Old April 26th, 2008, 6:08 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Well, I've seen the James McAvoy suggestion for Bilbo, and I like it.

And he was Mr Tumnus too. Cool!

I've not seen the Colin Firth suggestion before, though, Klio. That's GREAT.


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Old April 26th, 2008, 7:26 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Pearl, apparently the Colin Firth idea has been around for years (among fans anyway) - but it took me completely by surprise when I saw this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Eowyn Kenobi, at [url
www.council-of-elrond.com][/url]

and here's a side by side comparison. a young Ian Holm is the one to the left, stock photo of Colin Firth on the right.

I would never have thought of this.

But I have to say, I can't see Colin Firth agreeing to this.


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Old April 26th, 2008, 7:56 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by ginger1 View Post
We trust them to bring us the story.
my inner purist (Run to the hills! ) cannot let this pass, without a

Well, yay for a single Hobbit film. The "LOTR prequel" film - eh. I guess the studios can never have too much (pale enchanted) gold.



On the bright side, more people will pick up the books, as always. Next: Túrin?

Re: Cast suggestions:

Brian Blessed as Beorn! (Too old for Thorin?)



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Old April 26th, 2008, 9:24 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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On the bright side, more people will pick up the books, as always. Next: Túrin?
Awesome, but depressing.

If the rights ever became free (haha), there are three big stories from The Silmarillion that could make good films: 1) Beren and Luthien; 2) Turin; and 3) personally I'd rather fancy a big Downfall of Numenor movie.

Brian Blessed as Beorn? - perfect.

I vote Richard Armitage - - for Bard.

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Old April 26th, 2008, 9:38 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by GodricHollow View Post
I'm thinking that the Bridge film will be the rise of Sauron, the making of the Council and that kind of thing - fairly story-ish really, if done right.
I guess that I do not see what the story would be. Sure, there could be plenty of plot: but look at Attack of the Clones; all plot and no story makes for a pointless movie.


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Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
Well, I've seen the James McAvoy suggestion for Bilbo, and I like it.
I agree. However, I remember just how wildly wrong we were when we were guessing about who would play what for Rings! I think that Jackson & Co. will pursue the same strategy of going for relative unknowns. Still, McAvoy fits that: he's had small parts that he has played well, but he's not a big "name."

I hope that they add Mumakil to the Battle of the Five Armies so that we can see how Leggy learned to kill them. Did anybody else feel that the the Rings movies failed to adequately explain that? (Ducks and runs.....)

I agree with you about Firth: this is not the sort of thing that he'd do. Also, isn't he on the tall side? The forced perspective stuff will demand a fairly short actor. All of the hobbits in Rings were pretty short dudes.


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Originally Posted by anduril View Post
my inner purist (Run to the hills! ) cannot let this pass, without a

Well, yay for a single Hobbit film. The "LOTR prequel" film - eh. I guess the studios can never have too much (pale enchanted) gold.
Heh, there are are purists and there are purists. A lot of purists would want a two-part Hobbit for the same reason that they wanted a six-part Rings or a two-part Hallows!

However, there is not enough story in the Hobbit for two-parts.

What I cannot figure out is how they have rights to do a second film. I guess that if they stick only to material in Rings, then they are OK. If they try to use anything from Unfinished Tales or the Silm., then the Tolkien Estate can (and certainly will) sue their rear-ends off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anduril View Post
On the bright side, more people will pick up the books, as always. Next: Túrin?
Rings sold more copies from 2002-2004 than did any of the Harry Potter books. (They usually give the Potter sales in a lump for the whole series, but that is 5 titles to 1 at that point.) So, this is quite a real possibility. However, The Hobbit had outsold Rings by a wide margin prior to the films. It's the classic "sequel" pattern: people who bought and did not like the Hobbit never bought Rings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anduril View Post
Brian Blessed as Beorn! (Too old for Thorin?)
Ah, when to Arwenize, Faramirate or Bombadilerate? Bombs away here! I just cannot see keeping Beorn in the film. I would have the Eagles take the troop to the borders of Mirkwood: that sets up the Eagles for "THE EAGLES ARE COMING!" (a great moment, at least the first time.) It also sets up the Elfs for the Five Armies. The Orcs and Wargs already are set up. I just do not see what the Werebear adds to the story or plot.

That being said, I could see Blessed as a good Thorin. Thorin was dour, yes, but he was bombastic, and Blessed does bombastic for breakfast. Also, he is a big and broad man, so he would be proportioned properly next to a smaller slighter man playing Bilbo.

It's a shame that no money in the world could get Rhys Davies to play one of the dwarfs again! Of course, the Dwarfs will present a bit of a problem: there are just too many of them, and making them distinct to the audience will be tough. The book (sort of) develops a friendship between Balin & Bilbo beyond that of the others, but I cannot see that really helping the film. I think that it will be much more important to develop a tetchy relationship between Thorin & Bilbo, because that adds so much gravity to Thorin's death: the death-with-issues can be a lot more poignant than death-of-a-friend.

So, what should stay? What should be cut? I vote "out" for Béorn. I'd keep the Trolls. I do not think that I would bother with Rivendell: Gandalf should have known the things that Elrond tells them. Gandalf was not "Gandalf" when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit any more than Trotter was Aragorn; however, Rings!Gandalf has become such an iconic character that they cannot back away from that at this point.


I have no cast suggestions. Jackson & Co. did great last time. I would counsel against cameos from the old cast: that really bogged down the Star Wars prequels. Unlike Harry Potter, I think that the films clicked enough with audiences so that they would recognize (say) Elrond, etc.: but unless they have a real part to play, then it will come across the same way that C3P0 & R2D2 did in PM, AotC & RotS.


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  #93  
Old April 26th, 2008, 9:45 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Hmm...

I must be getting my times mixed up, I was thinking that the rise of Sauron was basically everything up to and including the Siege of the Tower. Kind of got that a bit wrong.

You may have a point.


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Old April 26th, 2008, 9:54 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Just heard the news- am so ecstatic!!! As much as I'm a fan of Jackson's work on Rings, I think del Toro's a better pick for Hobbit. And after all the worry about lawsuits, thank god it's actually going to happen. I'll have to read up on the news before posting more, but Sir Ian is back I hope.

This more than makes up for my disappointment about the Deathly Hallows movie(s).


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Old April 26th, 2008, 10:46 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

In the "second hobbit movie" do you think they would include some of Aragorn's back story? For example where he was disguised (as Thorongil - the Eagle of the star) - and was advisor to Ecthelion. There are only a few paragraphs in the appendix concerning Aragorn (apart from the Aragorn / Arwen story) but I feel sure it would make good cinema. Not least his relationship with Gandalf over those long years.

Heroic deeds by someone in disguise ... Yes? No?



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  #96  
Old April 26th, 2008, 11:51 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

Yes, Aragorn's story would make a good movie - but one that would mainly have to be completely invented. At least the little bits we know of the story are in the appendices of LotR, and therefore accessible.

I am still wondering whether (as part of an out-of-court settlement with the Tolkien estate) they somehow managed to clear some rights for a few bits of UT..... I can't see how on earth they'd otherwise manage to make this bridge movie and remain within the bounds of their legal rights...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
I hope that they add Mumakil to the Battle of the Five Armies so that we can see how Leggy learned to kill them. Did anybody else feel that the the Rings movies failed to adequately explain that? (Ducks and runs.....)
hehe. I am in two minds about a Legolas cameo. But the mind that's against it mostly wins.



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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
I agree with you about Firth: this is not the sort of thing that he'd do. Also, isn't he on the tall side? The forced perspective stuff will demand a fairly short actor. All of the hobbits in Rings were pretty short dudes.
True. No, it would be weird if he really did take that role (or even be asked). Although he has been in really awful films lately - 'The last Legion', anyone?
The size issue is obviously a prohibitive factor in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Ah, when to Arwenize, Faramirate or Bombadilerate? Bombs away here! I just cannot see keeping Beorn in the film. I would have the Eagles take the troop to the borders of Mirkwood: that sets up the Eagles for "THE EAGLES ARE COMING!" (a great moment, at least the first time.) It also sets up the Elfs for the Five Armies. The Orcs and Wargs already are set up. I just do not see what the Werebear adds to the story or plot.
Nice new verbs there - I love it. I am with you. Beorn will probably go the way of old Tom.


But ARGH!!! SIN!!!! You wrote elfs!!!!!!! It's most definitely elves .... and now run before the purists get you!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
It's a shame that no money in the world could get Rhys Davies to play one of the dwarfs again! Of course, the Dwarfs will present a bit of a problem: there are just too many of them, and making them distinct to the audience will be tough.
dwarves, surely?

Anyway - I really hope that they backtrack on the silly prosthetic make-up. I'd rather have dwarves look more human but be able to move their faces. And I am not sad to see the back of Rhys-Davies. I wasn't very fond of his interpretation of Gimli (or rather, what PJ and Rhys-Davies cooked up together)..... other actors resisted PJ's sense of slapstick and silly humour - Rhys-Davies went along with it all too willingly. ARGH.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
So, what should stay? What should be cut? I vote "out" for Béorn. I'd keep the Trolls. I do not think that I would bother with Rivendell: Gandalf should have known the things that Elrond tells them. Gandalf was not "Gandalf" when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit any more than Trotter was Aragorn; however, Rings!Gandalf has become such an iconic character that they cannot back away from that at this point.
True. But still, Rivendell would be nice to have anyway. They can use it for some exposition, I suppose. if it isn't in the first film we'll definitely need it in the second, for various things like White Council business, and probably some Arwen & Aragorn backstory. So, having it in the first one, too, would help with making the connections (if it is done right).

The trolls have to be in! We have already seen them in the FotR SEE, and it would be neat to have the scene blend into that set. One of the few definite visual links between the story of the Hobbit and LotR (apart from generic landscapes, but that's different, of course).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
I have no cast suggestions. Jackson & Co. did great last time. I would counsel against cameos from the old cast: that really bogged down the Star Wars prequels.
True, their casting was great! And it would be better to have lots of unknowns, at least in the main roles.... Concerning cameos: I don't think they should shoehorn anyone in, but some are obvious - Elrond, Galadriel and Saruman for the White council, which will definitely feature somehow.

As already mentioned, I am not sure about Legolas, but I guess his return will be inevitable if they can get Bloom again (likelihood is that they can, seeing that things have been quiet about him for some time). At least there is a reasonable excuse for him to be there....


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  #97  
Old April 26th, 2008, 11:56 pm
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

The only reasons behind Leggy's single handed takedown of the Mumak in RotK was due to him not really having a lot to do in RotK and also because the fans loved his slide-down-the-stairs-on-a-shield moment in TTT.

I quite like it, if only for Gimli's "That still only counts as one!" line.


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Old April 27th, 2008, 1:36 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
I guess that I do not see what the story would be. Sure, there could be plenty of plot: but look at Attack of the Clones; all plot and no story makes for a pointless movie.
Attack of the Clones was a classic example of Lucas having a great idea for a story but being unable to execute his vision properly. Which has happened before in some of his movies.

As for the second Hobbit film, i guess they can raid Tolkien's notes about middle earth to piece together a story that bridges the gap between The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. They could have Aragorn's backstory revealed with the backdrop of Gandalf and co preparing for the war to come which would then, lead into the Lord of the Rings.


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Old April 27th, 2008, 5:53 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Yes, Aragorn's story would make a good movie - but one that would mainly have to be completely invented. At least the little bits we know of the story are in the appendices of LotR, and therefore accessible.
The problem is that someone was trying to do this movie a few years ago. Much of it was made, and some short trailers were released. However, in the end, they were unable to secure the rights. They tried changing all of the names or something, but the project sort of disappeared. (I am blanking on what it was called in the end.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
I am still wondering whether (as part of an out-of-court settlement with the Tolkien estate) they somehow managed to clear some rights for a few bits of UT..... I can't see how on earth they'd otherwise manage to make this bridge movie and remain within the bounds of their legal rights...
Christopher Tolkien has expressed great reluctance to sell any of the rights to works published after his father died. He's quite the purist at heart, and he even has expressed concerns about whether he should have published HoMe!

So, they must have found a way to make do with Rings material alone.
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Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Nice new verbs there - I love it. I am with you. Beorn will probably go the way of old Tom.
Ah, I "coined" them for that silly essay I wrote. (The link's below in the part of my signature about Hallows: you might get a kick out of it.) However, I cannot be the first inventor of these things!
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But ARGH!!! SIN!!!! You wrote elfs!!!!!!! It's most definitely elves .... and now run before the purists get you!
heh, but who's purity? There is that great letter in which Tolkien tells the editor that he disagrees! However, I remember having students tell me that they disagreed with how I graded: oddly, that did not help them much!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
Anyway - I really hope that they backtrack on the silly prosthetic make-up. I'd rather have dwarves look more human but be able to move their faces.
Well, they should not look too human: part of the reason why they looked ugly to Elves and Men was that Aüle did not have a clear idea in his head what the Children of Illuvator actually looked like: so, his model was a bit "deformed."

As for Gimli, the movies would have been a bit less popular if he had been played more "straight." Gimli gets most of the funny lines in the book, and they played that up: and those films badly needed the humor. Gimli and Legolas made the film part "buddy flick" and part of what made the Rings so enormously popular. Now, I know that many Tolkien fans would have been just as happy if the movies had not appealed to that crowd: but what makes the great tales great is that they appeal to multiple audiences. At any rate, Gimli was basically someone that the audiences would either laugh with or laugh at: and Jackson & Co. wisely chose to roll with the punch and go with the "with." (Man, I hate ending sentences in prepositions, even if Tolkien said it was OK.....)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
True. But still, Rivendell would be nice to have anyway. They can use it for some exposition, I suppose. if it isn't in the first film we'll definitely need it in the second, for various things like White Council business, and probably some Arwen & Aragorn backstory. So, having it in the first one, too, would help with making the connections (if it is done right).
Ah, but why do we need White Council business or Arwen & Aragorn backstory in The Hobbit? The book does just fine without either! Just as in Harry Potter movies, my thought is that if it does not advance the story being told, then it should not be in this film: the audiences simply have no way to think: "Oh, that seemingly irrelevant scene will be relevant in the next movie!" Instead, they will think: "Gack, what bad film making: who did this, Christopher Columbus?!?!?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klio View Post
The trolls have to be in! We have already seen them in the FotR SEE, and it would be neat to have the scene blend into that set. One of the few definite visual links between the story of the Hobbit and LotR (apart from generic landscapes, but that's different, of course).
Oh, I agree. Joe and Jane Public obviously will not remember it from the Rings films: but the Troll scene is too important for the dynamic development of Bilbo. It will have tension, drama, perhaps even a touch of humor.

One thing that I would keep in mind, however, is that Tolkien himself did say (in multiple ways, including through Gandalf) that he would have written the Hobbit very differently. Some of the more childish humor could be eliminated: and if purists needed justification, well, we should keep in mind that this was the way that Uncle Bilbo told it to the lads and lasses!

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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Attack of the Clones was a classic example of Lucas having a great idea for a story but being unable to execute his vision properly. Which has happened before in some of his movies.
Do you know what was the story supposed to be? I just could not see one at all. There was plot, plot and more plot: and although the plots were not bad in terms of the intricacies and how they came together, there simply was no larger "point." (The best review of Clones that I read stated at the outset that if you didn't remember the difference between story and plot from your high school literature classes, then see Clones: it's all plot with no story!)
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Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
As for the second Hobbit film, i guess they can raid Tolkien's notes about middle earth to piece together a story that bridges the gap between The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings. They could have Aragorn's backstory revealed with the backdrop of Gandalf and co preparing for the war to come which would then, lead into the Lord of the Rings.
The Tolkien estate holds all the rights to those, and Christopher is reluctant to sell them. So, if they use any of those, then you can almost guarantee that there will be a lawsuit!

An example of this is "Maia": that word is not in Rings or Hobbit, but Jackson & Co. initially did include it in the dialog between Saruman & Gandalf; they had to cut that, of course, as that name comes from Tolkien's other works. They could use "Valar" as those are mentioned in Rings, even if they are not exactly defined! They were called "Guardians" so having Arwen bestow their blessings was not going to go too far.


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Old April 27th, 2008, 7:09 am
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Re: The Hobbit movie news

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
I agree with you about Firth: this is not the sort of thing that he'd do. Also, isn't he on the tall side? The forced perspective stuff will demand a fairly short actor. All of the hobbits in Rings were pretty short dudes.
I thought he was too tall as well. And he's not right for the role.


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