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The Trio - Group Character Analysis



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  #61  
Old March 16th, 2011, 4:53 pm
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
I agree. I don't think any reasoning on Harry's part could have convinced them it was the only way. Even Hermione would have put logic aside and done anything she could to stop him.

I have always thought if they couldn't persuade Harry not to go they would have wanted to go with him. He wouldn't allow that of course and I think he would have demanded that they stay alive to finish off Voldemort (and live a happy life together) which they would have accepted.

But I've always felt that if it ever came to "going out" (impending certain death) they'd want to do it together.
I tend to agree with that. I also hate the idea of Harry dying and Ginny living as that would be hell for Ginny and in a similar train of thought i always really disliked the idea of either Ron or Hermione dying and not the other. Of course i don't want either to die but i think it would be hell on earth for the one that survived.

It sort of works like this (i think at least)

- Harry could have continued on if Ron and Hermione died but Ginny did not. He would have been extremely depressed of course but Ginny would have gotten him through it.

- Ron and Hermione could have continued on if Harry died. Again they would both be extremely depressed but they would have each other and as we know they are both in love. I think if Hermione died and Ron lived Ron would never have recovered from that but if Harry died and Hermione lived i think Ron would have eventually recovered and would eventually be happy.

I hope that make sense.


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  #62  
Old March 31st, 2011, 1:04 am
Shaun_MT  Male.gif Shaun_MT is offline
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by GingerCat1 View Post
I tend to agree with that. I also hate the idea of Harry dying and Ginny living as that would be hell for Ginny and in a similar train of thought i always really disliked the idea of either Ron or Hermione dying and not the other. Of course i don't want either to die but i think it would be hell on earth for the one that survived.

It sort of works like this (i think at least)

- Harry could have continued on if Ron and Hermione died but Ginny did not. He would have been extremely depressed of course but Ginny would have gotten him through it.

- Ron and Hermione could have continued on if Harry died. Again they would both be extremely depressed but they would have each other and as we know they are both in love. I think if Hermione died and Ron lived Ron would never have recovered from that but if Harry died and Hermione lived i think Ron would have eventually recovered and would eventually be happy.

I hope that make sense.
It makes complete sense =)

Although not being a huge Harry/Ginny fan, I believe he would have taken either Ron's or Hermione's deaths worse. The trio are so intwined, if one was to die it would be like the amputation of a limb.

I've always felt that even though Ginny becomes Harry's wife she will always be an outsider somewhat to the trio. I have these visions of the Weasley's visiting the Potter's for a family gathering and as the evening winds down the adults reminisce about school. But while Harry, Ron and Hermione loudly joke together, Ginny sorta sits quietly smiling as she listens rather than takes part.

It's this connection that makes me think that they would rather die with Harry rather than let him go to his death alone.


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  #63  
Old March 31st, 2011, 3:00 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Shaun_MT View Post
Although not being a huge Harry/Ginny fan, I believe he would have taken either Ron's or Hermione's deaths worse. The trio are so intwined, if one was to die it would be like the amputation of a limb.

I've always felt that even though Ginny becomes Harry's wife she will always be an outsider somewhat to the trio. I have these visions of the Weasley's visiting the Potter's for a family gathering and as the evening winds down the adults reminisce about school. But while Harry, Ron and Hermione loudly joke together, Ginny sorta sits quietly smiling as she listens rather than takes part.

.
I agree with this, Ginny and Harry match good for each other, however, even if the feelings are different, I think that if we put in a scale Harry's feelings for Ginny and Harry's feelings for Ron and Hermione, the later would weight more. Maybe with the time passing, and the daily living together, Ginny would have occupied this first place, but at the time of DH, Harry, Ron and Hermione had gone through so many things together, that one of them dying would leave the others mangled. As I said, time could change things, but the trio are the only ones that know fully Voldemort's secret and that will always be a very strong bond among them. JMO.


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  #64  
Old March 31st, 2011, 3:04 am
Bzhilanskaia  Female.gif Bzhilanskaia is offline
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

In response to the posts above, I've always thought that their friendship was so strong, that the trio had such an inseparable bond, that any member of the trio dying would be just as devastating whether he or she was a "significant"(I'd prefer "romantic" for this point and case) other or not.
I pretty much agree with Shaun_MT, with all the bits about Ginny. I have never found myself that fond of her and her involvement with the trio, though maybe four years ago or more I was.


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  #65  
Old March 31st, 2011, 7:36 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

Quote:
In response to the posts above, I've always thought that their friendship was so strong, that the trio had such an inseparable bond, that any member of the trio dying would be just as devastating whether he or she was a "significant"(I'd prefer "romantic" for this point and case) other or not.
I quite agree with this. They had been friends with each other, ever since they entered the magical world. And losing one of the trio would've meant losing a part of what their life had been like before the war (especially for Harry and Hermione because they were never able to associate well with normal people before they went to Hogwarts).


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  #66  
Old March 31st, 2011, 9:41 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
I quite agree with this. They had been friends with each other, ever since they entered the magical world. And losing one of the trio would've meant losing a part of what their life had been like before the war (especially for Harry and Hermione because they were never able to associate well with normal people before they went to Hogwarts).
They were more than friends, they were buddies in action together in a war. Ask any soldier who was the most important person to him in a war zone and he'll say it was his buddy that got his back. The Trio went through hard action together, that's a bond that never breaks.


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  #67  
Old March 31st, 2011, 5:08 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Bzhilanskaia View Post
In response to the posts above, I've always thought that their friendship was so strong, that the trio had such an inseparable bond, that any member of the trio dying would be just as devastating whether he or she was a "significant"(I'd prefer "romantic" for this point and case) other or not.
I pretty much agree with Shaun_MT, with all the bits about Ginny. I have never found myself that fond of her and her involvement with the trio, though maybe four years ago or more I was.
I so agree with this!!! They are close, the three of them and I would say that this bond is so precious, it would be hell for the other two, if one of them had died. As indeed we see even in DH, when Voldemort flaunts Harry's dead body in front of the entire school and we see instant reactions of agony and anguish from Ron and Hermione, as well as Ginny (Harry's significant other). (And as that is one of the parts which is probably going to be cut in the movie, it is making me mad)

Ron: Just look at what Ron's leaving did to Harry in DH. Then there was also the time in HBP when Ron was poisoned and how Harry could never think what would have happened if he had not thought of the bezoar. Now imagine what would have happened to Harry if Ron had actually died in the war!!

Hermione: The Malfoy Manor chapter in DH is a good example of Harry's reaction if she had died. After trying to formulate plans to get out of the cellar, Harry also goes mad and starts running here and there, feeling and pounding on the walls and in a fit of insanity, removes things from the mokeskin pouch.


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Old April 6th, 2011, 6:44 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

1. What role does each member play in the trio? How did the role of each member of the trio change over the course of the series?[/quote]Harry provided the direction and resolve for the trio. Hermione researched and organized as the brains. Ron supported and facilitated as the point man.

Quote:
2. What strengths did each member bring to the group?
Quote:
3. What weakness of each member hindered the group?
Their strengths and weaknesses were quite closely related. For example, Harry was highly determined and single-minded in his task, but his single-mindedness could make him arrogant and take rash decisions. Hermione's organizational skills were highly useful for the group, but they became a weakness when she became bossy or overbearing on Ron or Harry. She was exceptionally knowledgeable and clever, but this also left her somewhat narrow-minded. Ron was loyal, brave, and supportive, but these would waver if he felt that his efforts were not reciprocated or respected.

Quote:
4. Was their a dominant leader or did they take turns leading at different times?
While they may have perceived each other as equals, Harry generally assumed a leadership role.

Quote:
5. How did the relationship between Ron/Hermione affect the trio?
The beginnings of their relationship and romantic closeness marked a shift in which Ron stopped universally agreeing with Harry against Hermione, but would moderate between their (often strongly-held) viewpoints. The Trio starts out as Harry/Ron + Hermione, but it begins to become Harry + Ron/Hermione. They were still certainly a trio, but Harry notes how Ron and Hermione increasingly collude with each other, and he feels more isolated than he once was.

Quote:
6. What do you think was the trio's strongest/weakest moment?
Their strongest moment was probably Chamber of Secrets and Prisoner of Azkaban, when their group roles became firmly established and before Voldemort's return (i.e. Harry's moodiness and isolation increases) and the Ron/Hermione relationship complicates the trio's group dynamics. It then strengthens firmly again following the destruction of the Locket horcrux. Their weakest moments were those when the trio lost Ron: the Goblet of Fire and Deathly Hallows fallouts.

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7. Do you think the members of the group worked better together or alone? Why?
Overall, they worked best together. But Hermione often worked alone when it came down to researching missing pieces and available clues.

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8. Do you think that Harry could have defeated Voldemort without the help of Hermione and Ron?
Definitely not, and it's clear that Dumbledore knew it. Dumbledore kept his cards close to his chest, and often believed that the only the least amount of people to make a given plan work need to know. Dumbledore only permitted Harry to let in Ron and Hermione on the Horcruxes. That testifies to how essential they were for defeating Voldemort.

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9. Do you have any new thoughts about the trio after DH?
It became a quartet?


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  #69  
Old July 11th, 2011, 7:03 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

I do not think Harry could've defeated Voldy without Hermione, i don't think he had the brains, for one thing. Harry didn't know how to destroy horcruxes, Hermione had to tell him that.
I guess Ron was helpful too...


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  #70  
Old July 11th, 2011, 7:23 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Do you think that Harry could have defeated Voldemort without the help of Hermione and Ron?
Absolutely not. The magnitude and complexity of the task at hand would have been too much for one person to handle. Dumbledore even saw the necessity of Harry sharing the Horcrux information with Ron and Hermione. Harry, of course, had to be the one to make the ultimate sacrifice and defeat Voldemort, but he would have been lost without the support and aid of his friends. Ron and Hermione both made contributions (Hermione's magical bag of goodies, Ron and Hermione helping Harry get into the ministry and Gringotts, etc.) to the cause and were a source of comfort and strength to Harry during a time when he needed it most.


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  #71  
Old July 27th, 2011, 1:32 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

1. What role does each member play in the trio? How did the role of each member of the trio change over the course of the series?
Hermione, obviously, tends to be the brains of the situation, she's the one who finds the best way to implement the ideas that come about. Harry is very forward with what he wants to do, so he usually runs the show by pushing things to happen quicker. Many would say that Ron doesn't have a definite role. But I would say that he, for one, provides comic relief when a situation gets really tense. I wouldn't call him an eternal sidekick. But he is a true friend to Harry, he's always backing him up. He is also the only one of the trio who grew up in the Wizarding World- so he provides explanation for Harry and Hermione when necessary; a very important role.

2. What strengths did each member bring to the group?
Well, all three of them bring loyalty, intelligence, and bravery to the group; they each show this at different times. Hermione is the problem solver. As shown in SS, she can logically sort things out and make sense of situations. Harry is the do-er. He gets down to business and makes things happen. Ron is the down-to-earth character. His sarcasm and fear brings out the reaction that a lot of us would express when in those situations. In the face of extreme danger and death, Ron's first reaction is fear; the reaction that most would have. He isn't a coward, though. He always comes through.

3. What weakness of each member hindered the group?
Harry's weakness is his temper. When he's angry he becomes very rash and does things that end in a bad way. Hermione can be too bookish sometimes. If it weren't for Harry and Ron, she may never decide on anything because she would research it for so long. Ron's weakness is his tendency to jump to conclusions.He always finds himself on the wrong side of situations because he doesn't look at the whole problem first.

4. Was their a dominant leader or did they take turns leading at different times?
I think that each member's role changes through different situations. In different situations, each member acts as the "glue" between members. Many times it's Harry keeping things together because Hermione and Ron argue a lot. But in general, I wouldn't give any one of them a role as the "leader" of the group.

5. How did the relationship between Ron/Hermione affect the trio?
I think that it was always there. It's the reason they fight so much. Although their relationship wasn't always at the forefront of the plot, I think that it was a factor since the beginning of the books. Once it came into light, I don't think it changed the dynamic of the group too much. Harry, of course, felt awkward, because who wouldn't?

6. What do you think was the trio's strongest/weakest moment?
I think that their strongest moment was in DH after Ron left. Sounds odd, because they were separated. But this was when they each realized how much they needed each other. When Ron came back and they were a trio again, I believe they were stronger than ever. Their weakest moment was in DH before Ron left. There was a lot of anger and resentment (partially because of the horcrux), and it separated them more than ever before.

7. Do you think the members of the group worked better together or alone? Why?
I think that they work best together. Each of them has their own personal strengths, and together they work through problems best.

8. Do you think that Harry could have defeated Voldemort without the help of Hermione and Ron?
Definitely not. The point of the books isn't power and strength of a single person. The point is the power of friendship and teamwork. Harry never could have vanquished Voldemort alone, he needed Hermione and Ron as well as he needed many others who crossed his path. His friends gave him a significant reason to go on with the fight.

9. Do you have any new thoughts about the trio after DH?
I think that they are very much the same as they were at the beginning. Their first act as a trio was defeating a mountain troll. While their enemies only grew as the series progressed, their friendship grew with it. They were friends after their first trial, and they are friends after their final trial.


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  #72  
Old August 14th, 2011, 6:46 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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6. What do you think was the trio's strongest/weakest moment?
This is a great question. Their weakest moment is, in my opinion, the fight between Ron and Harry before Ron walks out on them during their Horcrux hunt. They were all so frustrated, and Harry felt guilty that he didn't really know what he was doing, and all the negative things he was already thinking were reaffirmed by Ron. They said some terrible things to one another, and it was hard to see their spirit broken in such a way.

It's hard for me to decide what their strongest moment was. I'm going to think about it for a bit. They had so many strong moments together, it's hard to choose just one.


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  #73  
Old December 22nd, 2011, 11:08 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

1. What role does each member play in the trio? How did the role of each member of the trio change over the course of the series?

Ron - He is there as a opp to hermione as Ron is very funny wheareas Hermione is the smart one. The two boys are the trouble markers this hasnt changed in the series. Harry is very much the hero or the leader of the gang. Ron has the knowledge with the other two are missing. Ron and Hermione parts have not changed much at all.

2. What strengths did each member bring to the group?

Hermione - Brains/knowlegde/being brave
Ron- Knowlegde of the wizarding world
Harry- Being brave/Willingness

4. Was their a dominant leader or did they take turns leading at different times?

Harry was often the leader, but I think most of the time it was fairly equal. It shifted and changed when placed in different situations.

5. How did the relationship between Ron/Hermione affect the trio?

I think at times it was nearly broke up the trio so it affect them in a bad way, this caused problems. However it also streagthen the trio

6. What do you think was the trio's strongest/weakest moment?

Ron Walking away [DH[

7. Do you think the members of the group worked better together or alone? Why?

Together


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  #74  
Old July 16th, 2013, 6:25 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

Responding to some points made on the Ron thread

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Originally Posted by MinervasCat View Post
I'm still not sure I get your point. I'm sorry to be so thick. But, the character, Ron Weasley, was written as Harry Potter's sidekick. He's partly comic relief (i.e. the slug hex backfiring, the crazy dress robes, his fear of spiders, and various other incidents), partly loyal friend, partly a foil for Harry's character. As part of "The Trio" he is a very important character, but, IMO, he is written a bit "inadequate" to make the main character, Harry, look even better. Ron is a character who has a reason for being who/what he is. That's the way the author wrote him. All of the characters in the series have their strengths and shortcomings. Ron just seems to have a few more than most of them.
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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
I'm saying that JK went out of her way to having Ron generate conflict and humor when she didn't have to, she gave him all the flaws and failings that she should have spread to Harry and Hermione (who both come off as bland due to this whitewashing) and she more or less wasted his character by not having him do much more than serve as Harry's foil. Even Neville got more to do in the end than that.

I get that Harry's the one with his name on the title, but taking interesting characters and doing nothing with them but using them to make Harry look better can come off as unsatisfying. And it makes Harry not look so good either, that instead of having him be a fully-fleshed out character on his own he needs to have foils to make him look better by what THEY do instead of what HE does.
First of all, I would like to say that I don't think Ron gets all of, or even a majority of, the trio's flaws. Hermione is quite flawed, and Ron and Harry constantly remind us of this whenever they point out how bossy she is. She also is very closed-minded at times, even to the point of being aggravating. Not only that, but her social skills are nothing to write home about (remember Binky the rabbit?) Harry might have the fewest flaws, IMO, but he still suffers from the odd fit of irrational anger and impulsiveness, not to mention that throughout the series, he assumes that he can and should play detective every time something odd happens. I would not call either of them whitewashed.

That said, I think Ron is often used to generate comic relief, either at his expense or (and I think this is the most common and least remembered) through his many humorous lines of dialogue. I think this is supposed to make us underestimate him at first, but keep in mind that in book after book, he does surprise us. I think where the problem may lie is that he has to keep surprising us book after book, whether it's on the giant chessboard, outside the dragon enclosure, or on the quidditch field. There are a lot of instances where Ron is set up as a sidekick/klutz/etc. so he can bounce back better than ever. In context, I think it all works out, but outside of context that still means there are a lot of instances where Ron is underestimated.

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
I still think that by the end of the series Harry is more an archetype than a real character.
While I think Harry does have characteristics that are all his own, I would agree with this somewhat. Harry's not a total blank slate, but he does seem to rise to the occasion magically and psychologically in ways that I would consider unusual. However, I think this is deliberate, and not necessarily a mistake on JKR's part.


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  #75  
Old July 16th, 2013, 8:23 am
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

Harry definitely does not have the fewest flaws. Harry is in fact a very flawed individual and tends to be a bit of a user of his friends.


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  #76  
Old July 16th, 2013, 5:27 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

Thing is, the books don't portray this as a flaw. It's a "Heroic Virtue" or something. Ron's flaws are considered flaws, yet Harry's are seen as more "noble" in nature.

Someone pointed out in the Harry Character Analysis thread that this is common, and most children's books protagonists pretty much are Marty Stus with most conflict coming from other characters.

And I think this is true of Harry.

Also, the books are from Harry's POV and most folks his age aren't going to recognize their own flaws as flaws.



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  #77  
Old July 16th, 2013, 7:04 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

IMO, all of the characters in the series are flawed. That's what makes them human. Some are more flawed than others, and Harry, having come through the childhood he did seems, at times, the least scarred. But, as Ignisia pointed out, he does have his cap-lock moments. And, when he does blow up he usually ends up doing a heck of a job of it. Dumbledore's office is one example, breaking up furniture...and his rant at the beginning of OotP. That was about two pages of cap-lock ranting. So, there are none of the characters who escape untarnished. And I definitely don't see Harry as a Mary Stu. He has a "save the world" complex, and tends to avoid asking for adult help when he should. While the books are aimed at young people, which may explain the handle-it-without-adults attitude, the success of the series shows that young people are not the only ones who enjoy reading that type of plot.


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  #78  
Old July 16th, 2013, 7:44 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

But the problem is, there's always something in the story to justify Harry blowing up, whether we agree with it or not. He rarely, if ever, does anything that the story outright says is wrong.


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Old July 16th, 2013, 10:09 pm
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by ShadowSonic View Post
But the problem is, there's always something in the story to justify Harry blowing up, whether we agree with it or not. He rarely, if ever, does anything that the story outright says is wrong.
What's your point? I could say the same for Ron and Hermione. We can all find reasons for why they do what they do. So?


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  #80  
Old July 17th, 2013, 5:14 am
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Re: The Trio - Group Character Analysis

I'm not saying we can all justify up reasons for why they do what they do, I'm saying that in Harry's case the series ITSELF goes out of its way to justify Harry's actions instead of just accepting that they're bad things.


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