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Nagini: Character Analysis



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  #81  
Old September 20th, 2007, 4:43 pm
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Re: Nagini - imperiused or possessed?

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Originally Posted by Artemis_Fowl_2 View Post
I'm not sure if that is the case because Harry was also a Horcrux and Voldemort had no control over him. My guess is that even if Voldemort knew Harry was a Horcrux that he still would not be able to control him.
Maybe it was a mixture of Nagini being a horcrux, Voldemort knowing this and using it to his advantage, his ability to speak Parseltongue and his fondness of the snake.
I think a lot of it could have been the fact he treated Nagini better than he ever treated any human, she was willing to do his bidding. But, I think being a horcrux has to play into it some where because Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort had an unusual amount of control over Nagini, even for someone who spoke Parseltongue. I always assumed he said that because he thought Nagini was a horcrux.


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  #82  
Old September 20th, 2007, 4:43 pm
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Re: Nagini - imperiused or possessed?

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Originally Posted by General_Ridley View Post
As for an example directly related to Voldemort, the rabbit he killed... I have a feeling he did a sort of Imperius Curse on the rabbit to get it to hang itself. Remember Mrs. Cole's words (paraphrased) "It can't have just got up there and hung itself"
I doubt it. Is a rabbit even physically capable of climbing up the walls of a room to a rafter high above? Imperius would not change its physical limitations. I think Tom just killed it and used magic to levitate it up there.

I agree that Nagini was probably controlled through the soul bit, and simply being trained and having a closeness out of Voldmeort's ability to speak her language.


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  #83  
Old September 20th, 2007, 9:25 pm
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Re: Nagini - imperiused or possessed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis_Fowl_2 View Post
I'm not sure if that is the case because Harry was also a Horcrux and Voldemort had no control over him. My guess is that even if Voldemort knew Harry was a Horcrux that he still would not be able to control him.
Voldemort couldn't (completely) control Harry because Harry was aware of the fact that Voldemort could enter his mind. He was possessed with a piece of soul, but also came to the point that he realized (after Ootp) that it wasn't a good thing to let Voldemort in his mind. So he could ward off the dominance of the piece of soul.

Nagini probably didn't know that she was possessed, maybe due to the limits of her brain. Besides she trusted Voldemort and was loyal to him, so she let him control her without fighting him off.


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  #84  
Old September 23rd, 2007, 6:32 am
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Re: Nagini - imperiused or possessed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis_Fowl_2 View Post
This makes a lot of sense. Nagini was just a loyal pet (for as loyal as a snake can get), who was probably controlled by Voldemort with the Imperius curse.
This wasn't what I meant at all, sorry if I gave that impression. I thought it made sense in conjunction with the rabbit, though zg brings up a good point that a rabbit could hardly climb a rafter. I do think he perhaps got it up there and convinced it to hand itself, though. I don't know, I'm confused now.

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Originally Posted by snapegirl77 View Post
Maybe it was a mixture of Nagini being a horcrux, Voldemort knowing this and using it to his advantage, his ability to speak Parseltongue and his fondness of the snake.
I think a lot of it could have been the fact he treated Nagini better than he ever treated any human, she was willing to do his bidding. But, I think being a horcrux has to play into it some where because Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort had an unusual amount of control over Nagini, even for someone who spoke Parseltongue. I always assumed he said that because he thought Nagini was a horcrux.
I agree with that. It certainly seemed to be Dumbledore's opinion. Anyone else have another interpretation?

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
Voldemort couldn't (completely) control Harry because Harry was aware of the fact that Voldemort could enter his mind. He was possessed with a piece of soul, but also came to the point that he realized (after Ootp) that it wasn't a good thing to let Voldemort in his mind. So he could ward off the dominance of the piece of soul.

Nagini probably didn't know that she was possessed, maybe due to the limits of her brain. Besides she trusted Voldemort and was loyal to him, so she let him control her without fighting him off.
I disagree that she didn't know she was being possessed because I always thought that rats told Peter they stayed away from the area of the forest where Voldemort was located was because there was a shadow that possessed them and gave them shorter lives. I could be wrong as I don't have my books with me, but I'm pretty sure it was something along those lines.
I think it is more likely that she simply didn't fight him off because frankly he treated her better than he treated anyone else.


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  #85  
Old September 23rd, 2007, 11:47 am
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Re: Nagini - imperiused or possessed?

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Originally Posted by mexicant View Post
I disagree that she didn't know she was being possessed because I always thought that rats told Peter they stayed away from the area of the forest where Voldemort was located was because there was a shadow that possessed them and gave them shorter lives. I could be wrong as I don't have my books with me, but I'm pretty sure it was something along those lines.
Yes but that particular bit tells us the rats knew, not that Nagini knew she was possessed. The rats might have sensed something uncommonly evil harboring in snakes, but that doesn't mean the snakes (and Nagini) knew what was happening to them, when Voldemort entered their brains.

Quote:
I think it is more likely that she simply didn't fight him off because frankly he treated her better than he treated anyone else.
I agree that Nagini probably didn't mind being possessed, she was loyal to him after all because he was good to her.


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  #86  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 3:15 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

I also took it that Nagini was so fond of Voldy that she didn't mind being used at all. All horcrux had a special meaning for Voldemort, I don't think that he would have made one of Nagini, when she wasn't already a loyal servant and just another ordinary snake. Being a Horcrux probably made it easier to possess her.


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  #87  
Old October 2nd, 2007, 3:28 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth?
No, I don't think so. I think having a bit of Voldemort's soul made her more human. I don't think an ordinary parselmouth would have been able to do that.

2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?
Yeah, I think so.

3. We've seen Nagini have a conscious thought process when she tells herself to hold Harry in Godric's Hollow. Is this the result of being a horcrux?
I just figured it was actually Voldemort telling Nagini to hold Harry there, but I suppose being a part of him, the two things are quite similar. If that makes any sense at all!


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  #88  
Old November 28th, 2007, 4:03 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

The whole Godric's Hollow scene with Nagini was kind of scary and amazing. I do wonder whether she would have been able to possess Bathilda's body without the aid of being a horcrux. And I wonder what kind of magic was involved - after all, it doesn't appear that Voldemort was actively possessing Nagini at the time.

Another "Nagini-note" that I had was I wonder whether she was happy to be cooped up in the cage. I get the impression that she might not have been - and I think that Voldemort knew it, too.

...I wonder if Nagini would be happy that she died in battle?


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  #89  
Old November 30th, 2007, 7:39 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by chparadise View Post
The whole Godric's Hollow scene with Nagini was kind of scary and amazing. I do wonder whether she would have been able to possess Bathilda's body without the aid of being a horcrux. And I wonder what kind of magic was involved - after all, it doesn't appear that Voldemort was actively possessing Nagini at the time.

Another "Nagini-note" that I had was I wonder whether she was happy to be cooped up in the cage. I get the impression that she might not have been - and I think that Voldemort knew it, too.

...I wonder if Nagini would be happy that she died in battle?
I think you're right in assuming she was unhappy in that cage - didn't Voldemort pretty much apologize to her for it? I can't recall another apology made by him in the entire series.


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  #90  
Old December 1st, 2007, 12:57 am
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? No, no way, no how, not a chance. She made him more raptilian. Did I tell you I HATE Snakes?We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth? No.

2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly? No, I think she was under a spell(sorry for the pun), brainwashed, under his control. If she wasn't put under a spell, she'd flee the moment she had the chance.

3. We've seen Nagini have a conscious thought process when she tells herself to hold Harry in Godric's Hollow. Is this the result of being a horcrux? Yes, she was processing Voldemort's input, his spell.
4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Due to Voldemort's influence, control, yes. Ultimately innocent? Not really. What standards can we hold her to? none.


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  #91  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:19 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

From the web chat:


Rosi: What does in essence divided mean?
J.K. Rowling: Dumbledore suspected that the snake’s essence was divided — that it contained part of Voldemort’s soul, and that was why it was so very adept at doing his bidding. This also explained why Harry, the last and unintended Horcrux, could see so clearly through the snake’s eyes, just as he regularly sees through Voldemort’s. Dumbledore is thinking aloud here, edging towards the truth with the help of the Pensieve.

What does it mean exactly? What is the snake's "essence" here? And if only it's divided, what about the other part?


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  #92  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:23 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

I understood it to mean that part of Voldemort's soul was inside her, which meant that her body had two souls and therefore was "in essence divided". I would say that the "essence" was her body, as a container for part of Voldemort's mutilated soul and her own full soul.


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  #93  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:27 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

I always thought that was Dumbledore finally figuring out two things: that Harry had Voldemort's soul in him, and that Nagini was the missing Horcrux. He was wondering that if Harry could see through Nagini's eyes, whether or not they were both connected. It seems they were, because they were both Voldemort.


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  #94  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:30 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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I always thought that was Dumbledore finally figuring out two things: that Harry had Voldemort's soul in him, and that Nagini was the missing Horcrux. He was wondering that if Harry could see through Nagini's eyes, whether or not they were both connected. It seems they were, because they were both Voldemort.
I'm almost certain that this was the moment when all of Dumbledore's theories had finally come together and he had realised the missing Horcrux and another confirmation to himself that Harry was definitely a Horcrux.


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  #95  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:38 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Yeah but wasn't it suspicious enough that Voldemort kept her so close to find out that she's a Horcrux?

I understand it now better thanks.

Something makes me wonder though. It looks like from what we saw in GoF that Voldemort is able to look through the snake's eyes or feels what she's feeling. If that is caused by the Horcrux within her, why wasn't he able to do the same with Harry? Harry was able to do it to him, but I'm not sure if vice versa. Could it be that the soul within Nagini did something to her that he was able to use her in that way?


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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:39 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Tenshi View Post
Something makes me wonder though. It looks like from what we saw in GoF that Voldemort is able to look through the snake's eyes or feels what she's feeling. If that is caused by the Horcrux within her, why wasn't he able to do the same with Harry? Harry was able to do it to him, but I'm not sure if vice versa. Could it be that the soul within Nagini did something to her that he was able to use her in that way?
When was Voldemort able to look through Nagini's eyes?


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  #97  
Old March 7th, 2008, 10:41 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Yeah but wasn't it suspicious enough that Voldemort kept her so close to find out that she's a Horcrux?
Well, I'm sure that Dumbledore had already entertained the notion previously, but this was just further proof, confirming his theory, I believe.


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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:44 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

Wasn't Voldemort able to tell that Frank was outside with help of Nagini? Long time that I read the book the last time. I'm probably mixing things up.


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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:46 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

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Wasn't Voldemort able to tell that Frank was outside with help of Nagini? Long time that I read the book the last time. I'm probably mixing things up.
I think that was because of Voldemort being able to communicate through Parseltongue. Frank says that he hears a series of hisses coming from Voldemort and then he announces that Nagini has told him that a Muggle is standing outside the door listening to everything they are saying.


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Old March 7th, 2008, 11:01 pm
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Re: Nagini: Character Analysis

1. Did the bit of Voldemort's soul in Nagini make her more human? We've seen that she was able to impersonate a human being - could an ordinary snake have done that even to a parselmouth?
I don't think so. Voldermort was hardly a human anyway.

2. Nagini was Voldemort's pet prior to becoming a horcrux. Do you think she was fond of him? Did she do his bidding willingly?
I think she didn't minded doing his bidding. She got food in return and a bit of her was him so i think she was kind of controlled in a way.

4. Is Nagini ultimately evil? Ultimately innocent? What standards can we hold her to?
Evil.


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