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Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



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  #81  
Old August 4th, 2007, 7:32 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
One thing I would hope for under a new regime would be that the Ministry would mandate that the wolfsbane potion be freely available for all werewolves. I imagine that, in the long run, that gesture would reduce the number of werewolf attacks and even, as generations go by, lead to the possibility of erradicating lycanthropy altogether.
That would be great wouldn't it?Think of the difference it would make.


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  #82  
Old August 4th, 2007, 7:50 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Honestly, though, complete "tackling" of prejudice is an unrealistic outlook. Undoubtedly there would still be people out there wary of werewolves. Even if laws might have changed protecting their rights, it's extremely difficult to change people's minds, even in nineteen years' time.

And supposing, miraculously, that this did happen, it doesn't likewise follow that the werewolves of the world would themselves be transformed. Of course, it's a huge morale booster to be able to get a job and have people out there supporting them, but they'd still have to live with that knowledge that once a month they become uncontrollable and dangerous. Even in a world where prejudice has decreased, werewolves would still have to contend with that fact.
You know, thinking about it, though, it's such a terrible prejudice, worse than most others. It's not even hating people for being born a certain way..it's hating people for having been victims, for having been attacked. I'm greatly surprised that people didn't band together and start treating them better.


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  #83  
Old August 4th, 2007, 9:49 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
One thing I would hope for under a new regime would be that the Ministry would mandate that the wolfsbane potion be freely available for all werewolves. I imagine that, in the long run, that gesture would reduce the number of werewolf attacks and even, as generations go by, lead to the possibility of erradicating lycanthropy altogether.
I doubt they'd appriciate that gesture, as lupin said most people that are bittin embrace that wolfhood. When people come to give them a temprary cure to their horrible disease... Well, you've seen how Greyback can be.


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Old August 4th, 2007, 10:19 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I believe That Remus Lupin represented a minority in the wizarding world and showed that even here prejudice in harry's world. His biggest downfall was his want to be liked by everyone his death was a tragic event he was a friend to many. I would like to point out something i noticed it was that the maraudrers lived longest in order from which the map first listed them masters mooney wormtail padfoot and prongs. James died first 16 years before then Sirius in Order of the phoenix then wormtails silver hand killed him then finally the last of the maruaders died at the hands of dolohov orphaning once again a child of the marauders. But Teddy shows us that the world has changed his situation is much like Harry's orphaned by voldemort but he gorws up a happy child without the problems harry faced


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  #85  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:38 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
Honestly, though, complete "tackling" of prejudice is an unrealistic outlook. Undoubtedly there would still be people out there wary of werewolves. Even if laws might have changed protecting their rights, it's extremely difficult to change people's minds, even in nineteen years' time.
Well no of course not; their 'tackling' would be akin to the abolishing of the laws against homosexuality, in the late 1960's, in the uk: it would just be the first step on the ladder. It had to be better then the complete prejudice that was in place during the time period of the books.


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  #86  
Old August 4th, 2007, 10:58 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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orphaning once again a child of the marauders. But Teddy shows us that the world has changed his situation is much like Harry's orphaned by voldemort but he gorws up a happy child without the problems harry faced
I thought that was a really nice parallel. Andromeda and Teddy would have been everything to each other, since all their other family members had been murdered, and Teddy had the sort of close relationship with Harry that Harry ought to have had with Sirius. So the situation was the same yet totally different and in a way the Marauders came full circle, with Harry and Teddy mirroring Sirius and young Harry.

Did anyone else want to punch Lupin in chapter 11? Such great timing for a mid-life crisis! I know that if you have a chronic illness, having a child can bring up issues you'd rather not think about, but I would never have believed Lupin would go as far as to walk out on his wife and unborn child! I'm so glad he listened to Harry and got his act together. I think Lupin was so used to being rejected because of his "furry little problem" and so accustomed to withdrawing in order to protect other people, that he just couldn't accept that Tonks and the baby were better off with him than without him. I don't think he was intentionally being selfish, but he didn't realise how much it was all just about him.


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  #87  
Old August 4th, 2007, 11:12 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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I thought that was a really nice parallel. Andromeda and Teddy would have been everything to each other, since all their other family members had been murdered, and Teddy had the sort of close relationship with Harry that Harry ought to have had with Sirius. So the situation was the same yet totally different and in a way the Marauders came full circle, with Harry and Teddy mirroring Sirius and young Harry.

Did anyone else want to punch Lupin in chapter 11? Such great timing for a mid-life crisis! I know that if you have a chronic illness, having a child can bring up issues you'd rather not think about, but I would never have believed Lupin would go as far as to walk out on his wife and unborn child! I'm so glad he listened to Harry and got his act together. I think Lupin was so used to being rejected because of his "furry little problem" and so accustomed to withdrawing in order to protect other people, that he just couldn't accept that Tonks and the baby were better off with him than without him. I don't think he was intentionally being selfish, but he didn't realise how much it was all just about him.
I didn't want to punch him. I totally could relate. He thought he had created a baby werewolf who was going to have to live as an outcast and shunned, jobless, friendless and angry his whole life at the man who had done this to him (Remus). Remus was also mortified that his fears with relation to Tonks had been realized. She was now also being shunned by society merely for marrying him.

Remus was correct in a sense. Tonks died at Bella's hand because Voldemort made her the target, playing on society's ugly notion that "different is disgusting and wrong". Remus himself was targeted as a werewolf.

Remus would have eventually gone back to his family with or without Harry's input - if he had remained in character based on what we learned before (as you said, you couldn't believe he'd do that based on what we'd seen from him in the past and he'd of likely come around to being who he always had been eventually). But Harry I think got him back into shape much quicker - a nice hard shove in the right direction and made him realize that he'd already made his bed and must lie in it.

Remus got it together in the end on a personal level, but his fears were realized anyway - family targeted for who he was (werewolf) rather than merely for fighting against evil (which of course was another reason).

But the whole scenario had to happen to show the evolution of Harry and Remus' relationship; to show us that the family actually was still targeted (he'd been trailed for 3 days before arriving) and to resolve the issue of Remus and family in light of his 'furry little problem' because we would have wondered about whether or not he'd resolved it on a personal level if JKR had not addressed it (in HBP we recall him having a huge problem with it all - could we accept him just to have forgotten all that?).

Anyway all is well that ends well. Teddy is happy; Remus and Tonks are happy and no longer shunned/outcast in the next world - DD's description: the next great adventure!


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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:20 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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I didn't want to punch him. I totally could relate. He thought he had created a baby werewolf who was going to have to live as an outcast and shunned, jobless, friendless and angry his whole life at the man who had done this to him (Remus).
Well, if the baby had turned out to be a werewolf, surely it would be a big help to have a supportive dad around to show him not all werewolves are monsters! Lupin didn't think that part through properly.
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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Remus was correct in a sense. Tonks died at Bella's hand because Voldemort made her the target, playing on society's ugly notion that "different is disgusting and wrong". Remus himself was targeted as a werewolf.
You know, sad as it is, I'm glad Remus died too, because if he'd survived knowing Tonks had been murdered because of him, it would have killed him anyway!
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Remus would have eventually gone back to his family with or without Harry's input - if he had remained in character based on what we learned before (as you said, you couldn't believe he'd do that based on what we'd seen from him in the past and he'd of likely come around to being who he always had been eventually). But Harry I think got him back into shape much quicker - a nice hard shove in the right direction and made him realize that he'd already made his bed and must lie in it.
I think you are right. That's why I called it a mid-life crisis. Lupin is a good bloke - he'd have gone back (with his tail between his legs) in the end.


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  #89  
Old August 4th, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Did anyone else want to punch Lupin in chapter 11? Such great timing for a mid-life crisis! I know that if you have a chronic illness, having a child can bring up issues you'd rather not think about, but I would never have believed Lupin would go as far as to walk out on his wife and unborn child! I'm so glad he listened to Harry and got his act together. I think Lupin was so used to being rejected because of his "furry little problem" and so accustomed to withdrawing in order to protect other people, that he just couldn't accept that Tonks and the baby were better off with him than without him. I don't think he was intentionally being selfish, but he didn't realise how much it was all just about him.
I don't think he had 'left' her in a literal sense, I think he was just looking for a way out, a way to protect her and the baby, from himself and what he was. I mean he must have gone back pretty much straight away because Ron hadn't seen him (when he did a runner) but knew through Bill and Fleur that all was well.

I figure he just thought: hey I am no use to my wife and child, but if I do this, I can help create a better world for them. Perfectly understandable and in line with the way Lupin was. I mean in POA, he is outed as a werewolf, he leaves. At the end of OOTP, Tonks must have started talking about marriage, what does he do, he goes and runs with the wolves and in DH he is faced with impending fatherhood, what does he do, looks for a way out, which in his mind would have been protecting Tonks and his child.

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I didn't want to punch him. I totally could relate. He thought he had created a baby werewolf who was going to have to live as an outcast and shunned, jobless, friendless and angry his whole life at the man who had done this to him (Remus). Remus was also mortified that his fears with relation to Tonks had been realized. She was now also being shunned by society merely for marrying him.

Remus was correct in a sense. Tonks died at Bella's hand because Voldemort made her the target, playing on society's ugly notion that "different is disgusting and wrong". Remus himself was targeted as a werewolf.
I don't think the baby could ever have been a werewolf: didn't it say in fantastic beasts that you had to be bitten, in JKR's world, to become one. I figure lupin was just freaking out when he said that. He was also convinced that his in - laws hated him, but later in the book we are shown that Andromeda, Tonks and Lupin are on very good terms.

You are right though all those fears and prejudices caused the scene in Grimmauld Place: Lupin finally snapped.

I figure Tonks would have been a target for Bella anyway. Bella would have loved to kill her 'traitor' of a sisters only child. It would have been justice for her.


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  #90  
Old August 5th, 2007, 1:52 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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I figure he just thought: hey I am no use to my wife and child, but if I do this, I can help create a better world for them. Perfectly understandable and in line with the way Lupin was. I mean in POA, he is outed as a werewolf, he leaves. At the end of OOTP, Tonks must have started talking about marriage, what does he do, he goes and runs with the wolves and in DH he is faced with impending fatherhood, what does he do, looks for a way out, which in his mind would have been protecting Tonks and his child.
Remember Dumbledore asked Lupin to act as a spy among the werewolves, so we can't say that he "ran away" from Tonks to be with the werewolves, he was ordered to do so. In fact, Lupin looked unhappy about having to spy among them because he wasn't making much headway in his conversation with Harry. While he did resist situations that he felt would be dangerous, most of those situations were one in which he would have been happy (marriage, a job, love, friends) - so he didn't want to resist them. He felt he had to for the safety of those around him. Very few people were allowed to get close to him for this reason: Tonks, Harry, the Marauders, Lily, Dumbledore, Kingsley, Bill, Molly, Hermione, Minerva, Arthur, Ron...and maybe a couple of more that I can't think of. And with all of them you can see it took a good amount of time for him to let them into his life.

Like a good hearted man with an infectous disease in our society...he doesn't want to hurt anyone with it, so often we find that type of person keeping to themselves. It is really a shame and I think that was JKR's point. We should reach out because the infected persons are going to have a very hard time reaching out to us. She made Harry (and others) reach out to Lupin in this way and showed that the results can bring happiness to both parties in ways they never expected. We can do that too!



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  #91  
Old August 5th, 2007, 2:20 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Remember Dumbledore asked Lupin to act as a spy among the werewolves, so we can't say that he "ran away" from Tonks to be with the werewolves, he was ordered to do so.
We have that from Lupin, not Dumbledore, and all he says is that Dumbledore needed a spy and he was a 'ready made' one. I figure Lupin knew that Dumbledore would have liked a spy and volunteered because he feared hurting Tonks, was grieving for Sirius etc. If Harry had said yes to him, he probably would have told Tonks that him going on their mission was needed too, and technically that wouldn't have been a lie. Lupin was pretty damaged by ingrained prejudice. I think this type of thing was a knee jerk reaction though, and he needed people around him to call him on it (Harry in DH, Tonks and Molly in HBP)


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Old August 5th, 2007, 8:47 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

I absolutely love[d] the character of Remus Lupin. To me he just seemed to be a great man, kind, humble, even though his low self esteem threw him off sometimes.
His relationships.....
Sirius
I get the feeling they drifted apart just before Voldemorts first downfall [hence Remus being a suspect etc.] They probably became close during OoTP, and were good friends, Remus being the level headed one and Sirius being the opposite--probably similar to their relationship during their school years. I think Sirius' death would have affected him a lot.
Fenrir Greyback
The books don't state specifically when Remus found out it was Fenrir who bit him, but I suspect Fenrir might have been the one who told him. I know Remus was repulsed by Fenrir, and Fenrir probably wasn't too fond of Remus, seeing as they didn't exactly share views. I wish Remus had been the one to finish him off in the end.
Alastor Moody
I assume Remus had a lot of respect for Mad-Eye, but I doubt they were close. Knowing Moody he probably would have started out suspicious of Remus, but they were both in the Order first time around, so they'd go way back.
James Potter
James obviously liked Remus a lot, to become an Animagus for him. From the books it's evident that Remus was close to James, and had a lot of fond memories with him [and Sirius as well]. Again, I get the feeling they drifted apart right before James' death.
Lily Evans
These two would have been very compatible as friends. Remus was always a lot more level headed than James and Sirius, and Lily would have liked that, I think. They were both prefects so they must have had some pleasant chats while patrolling the corridors together. I doubt there was anything romantic there, though.
Peter Pettigrew
As James and Sirius were extremely close, I get the feeling that Remus and Peter were often paired together. Remus doesn't mention Peter a lot, and I think he was always confused as to what went wrong with his ex friend.
Severus Snape
As Remus mentions in HBP, he neither likes or dislikes Severus, but rather he trusts and respects him, especially after he made him the Wolfsbane potion for a year. It's evident that Snape never really had the same respect for Remus, but I like to think they reconciled in the magical afterlife.
Harry Potter Remus was obviously very fond of Harry, and Harry respected and liked Remus. I'm sure Harry will tell his godson what a good man Remus was

Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

He definitley made the right decision to go back, he never should have left. I was very disappointed with the way Remus was portrayed in Deathly Hallows, no justice was done for him at all. I've been considering going to work on my copy of DH with a tub of whiteout
Remus and Tonks were my favourite couple so I'm glad they got married...I think he made the right decision...I hate remembering the fact that they died though *looks for whiteout*

Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?
The same reason nobody else did, I guess.

What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?
I think he did have something to do with the werewolves, it would explain why he may have drifted apart from his fellow Marauders, and perhaps why he was a suspect.

Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?
He certainly made the right decision. He was a member of the Order, and he wouldn't abandon the fight. Of course I wished he had lived so Teddy would know his father, but he still did the right thing.


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  #93  
Old August 5th, 2007, 9:38 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Did anyone else want to punch Lupin in chapter 11? Such great timing for a mid-life crisis!
Punch Remus!never! I did get a bit annoyed with Harry though.But I know Harry said it out of concern.

About his reaction,do you think Remus actually loved Tonks?I kinda think he didn't.I know I'm very likely the only one who thinks this but I thought I'd ask.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 10:11 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Hell, I wish Harry would have listened to him. Remus was in the right if you ask me.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 12:12 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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We have that from Lupin, not Dumbledore, and all he says is that Dumbledore needed a spy and he was a 'ready made' one. I figure Lupin knew that Dumbledore would have liked a spy and volunteered because he feared hurting Tonks, was grieving for Sirius etc. If Harry had said yes to him, he probably would have told Tonks that him going on their mission was needed too, and technically that wouldn't have been a lie. Lupin was pretty damaged by ingrained prejudice. I think this type of thing was a knee jerk reaction though, and he needed people around him to call him on it (Harry in DH, Tonks and Molly in HBP)

Well we all interpret things how we like. However, based on Remus' character, it would not be normal for him to lie to Harry to make himself look good. He constantly put himself down, why would he lie? I do agree he resisted things and damaged in the sense that he refused to accept that anyone could really want to be close to him on the face. But he never ran from duty. DD asked him and many others to do things...we can't assume they were all resisting things in their lives when they complied...it was war time. So I believe he was being truthful. He didn't seek out that job, but I do agree it likely was acceptable on the level that it took him away from Tonks who he didn't want to deal with (causing her to become an outcast). But he also would never turn down work DD asked of him on behalf of the Order. He honored DD above all things and cared for the man as we saw in his reaction to his death. He was not particularly happy about the assignment, that was apparent in his discussion with Harry, but to say he took it on merely to escape Tonks makes it sound like they were not actually in war time, he wasn't really needed for the job and he wasn't as interested in fighting for the good cause as he was about 'relationships' and that does not ring true of his character.

Further, Remus worked for the first Order, fighting away and at that time he had no romantic attachments that we know of. So his willingness to fight for the cause was very apparent. Not to mention he left home to fight for the cause at the end, after he'd accepted and even embraced (desired and wanted) to be with Tonks and Ted and try to do the family thing. He showed a pic of Ted when he arrived at the battle...


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Old August 5th, 2007, 12:26 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Well we all interpret things how we like. However, based on Remus' character, it would not be normal for him to lie to Harry to make himself look good. He constantly put himself down, why would he lie.
He didn't lie, he said Dumbledore needed a spy, but the job probably served that duel purpose of protecting Tonks as well

Of course he was willing to fight; he was in the wrong group if he didn't.


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Old August 5th, 2007, 11:12 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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He didn't lie, he said Dumbledore needed a spy, but the job probably served that duel purpose of protecting Tonks as well

Of course he was willing to fight; he was in the wrong group if he didn't.
LOL...well we just agreed with each other I misunderstood you, sorry bout that.


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  #98  
Old August 5th, 2007, 11:20 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

A question, half-brought up elsewhere but put here on the thread.

What does everyone think Lupin's opinion of Sirius was? We see that Sirius was willing to risk Lupin's sanity by driving a student into where Lupin existed as a werewolf. Had it succeeded, Lupin would probably have felt guilty for the rest of his life. Yet we never see Lupin angry at Sirius for it. Do you think that Lupin actually forgave Sirius, or do you think he just chalked it up to another 'reckless' thing that Sirius did?


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Old August 6th, 2007, 2:14 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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A question, half-brought up elsewhere but put here on the thread.

What does everyone think Lupin's opinion of Sirius was? We see that Sirius was willing to risk Lupin's sanity by driving a student into where Lupin existed as a werewolf. Had it succeeded, Lupin would probably have felt guilty for the rest of his life. Yet we never see Lupin angry at Sirius for it. Do you think that Lupin actually forgave Sirius, or do you think he just chalked it up to another 'reckless' thing that Sirius did?
They laughed with the carelessness of youth after all of their midnight strolls where Lupin had close calls (in hurting or killing people). Since it was Snape, who they disliked, in the shreiking shack incident, they likely laughed over that event too. Lupin may have made an angry comment to Sirius about the possible reprecussions on himself, but I would say it was laughed about in the end.

When Lupin retells the story he says: 'Sirius thought it would be - er - amusing - to....." and Sirius says Snape deserved it. Lupin didn't scold or reply so I don't think it was that big a deal to him in terms of Sirius. And clearly whatever he felt at the time, he no longer felt when they met again as adults. They were tight buddies again almost immediatly (brotherly hug and also later when Snape tied Remus up and threatened to drag him out, Sirius got steaming mad and started forward - but Snape held up his wand)


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Old August 6th, 2007, 5:41 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
When Lupin retells the story he says: 'Sirius thought it would be - er - amusing - to....." and Sirius says Snape deserved it. Lupin didn't scold or reply so I don't think it was that big a deal to him in terms of Sirius. And clearly whatever he felt at the time, he no longer felt when they met again as adults. They were tight buddies again almost immediatly (brotherly hug and also later when Snape tied Remus up and threatened to drag him out, Sirius got steaming mad and started forward - but Snape held up his wand)
I think that after all they'd both been through since their last meeting, that old school disagreements and problems just didn't matter anymore.


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