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Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



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  #21  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:58 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

Lupin was such a brilliant character who was placed the perfect distance from Harry throughout the story since he appeared in PoA. He was close, far, clsoe far, etc. Lupin could have been a very nice father figure for Harry after all others had died out...But Harry grew apart from the needy feelings of being without a family. And he saw that though Lupin was admirable and strong, he was also running out on important things. When Harry told him off in DH I hope/think he received great applause. Lupin was trying to be strong and offer his help but Harry saw straight through this and Lupin was reduced to running out!

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

Lupin's ultimate weaknesses show greatly through his great shame in what he is. He desires his son and wife to push him away... He is greater than the werewolf he was forced to become. I am glad he returned to Dora and Teddy but I think it was done with a lot of regret on his part... He is too fearful. Not enough love in him! His decision in marrying her was right, and shows he can seperate his inner self from his werewolf self. Ashamed though he is of being a werewolf, he was proud enough of his love for Dora to marry her. That is awesome.

3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

The thought that Lupin even existed until PoA didn't occur to me until now, and now I feel rather stupid. Ha! Lupin didn't contact Harry because who knows if Harry would have had any reason to believe a single thing Lupin told him...! Or maybe Lupin was doing something that made him irrelevant and way far apart from the plot! Who knows! Tough question!

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

Lupin was probably a spy, like all of the Order. Doing things here and there for information etc etc. I am stumped! I don't think the werewolves were used already because then Fenrir Greyback would have already (most likely) been a huge threat to the good side. No doubt Voldemort would have already used him. Oooh tricky tricky.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

Lupin's weakness comes out here (again!) He wants to fight to ultimately save his family, but he could have easily saved them by not fighting. For Teddy's sake he should have stayed out of the fight... but Lupin had already expressed that he wished his Wife+Son to let him go...Fighting at Hogwarts was his way of feeling like he wasn't a burden to them. I think Lupin was fighting an internal battle and was losing. Stay with family? Stay ashamed of what I am? etc etc etc. He was constantly back and forth! His death makes me feel like he could be at peace with himself finally...no more decisions left to make. And Tonks died with him and for him...more peaceful yet! But poor Teddy....

Oh I hope I haven't missed spelling errors!


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  #22  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:58 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by sweets7 View Post
Couldn't have been, she must have been pregnant by then, for the maths to work, but she probably didn't know it. Harry's birthday is five days later and Remus is looking miserable, so they must just have found out.
Depends on when you think Teddy was born, general consensus I've found is April which would put conception in July, so she must have been less than a month pregnant at that point (plus they had only just got married, what the week before or something, I'm not sure Jo would write in a pre-nuptial pregnancy). And also I guess depends how quickly she would know that she was pregnant. I agree that they had just found out at Harry's birthday because of Remus's expression but I sort of think that as a Metamorphamagus she would be more aware of changes in her body than another woman would. But that's just my theory.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 12:05 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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I agree that they had just found out at Harry's birthday because of Remus's expression but I sort of think that as a Metamorphamagus she would be more aware of changes in her body than another woman would. But that's just my theory.
After five days? I don't think that she could have been that quick. It matters not though. JKR was never going to write a pre - wedding pregnancy into her books, so the safe assumption is that she is supposed to have got pregnant just after they got married.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 12:53 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I was hoping that in DH we would find out why Sirius didn't want him from secret keeper for the Potters. I too, thought that he would have contacted Harry before POA which leads me to believe that there was somthing that made him either uncomfortable about doing it or forbade him from doing it.

I thought he sounded a bit desperate in the last book, like something had gone awry. I thought the scene at #12 was concerning. At first, I thought he was imperiused, but I was incorrect.


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  #25  
Old July 25th, 2007, 6:24 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Interesting development in the Lupin death, from JKR's Today show interview:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR/Meredith Vieira interview
RE: HOW FAR BOOK SEVEN WAS FROM HER ORIGINAL VISION:
ROWLING: It's really close, particularly the last third of the book is as I always wanted it. It really is. The only exception would be the one character appears in that last third. And I thought that character was gonna die in Book Five when I started writing.
VIEIRA: Who was that?
ROWLING: Mr. Weasley. He was the person who got a reprieve. I-- when I sketched out the books, Mr. Weasley was due to die in Book Five.
VIEIRA: So what happened there? Why did he get the reprieve?
ROWLING: Well, I swapped him for someone else, and I don't want to say who for the people who haven't-- read. But I-- I made a decision as I went into writing Phoenix that I was gonna reprieve Mr. Weasley and I was gonna kill someone else. And if you finish the book, I expect you probably know and someone else who is a father.
It's pretty obvious that "someone else" is Remus. Tells us quite a lot about what she was intending to do with his death; the fact that he was a father was essential to her meaning. It makes sense that she might have swapped Mr. Weasley for him in order to add that little extra impact to the scene of Harry walking into the forest, but most important is the fact that he left a child behind. Clearly, JKR meant to have him die "trying to make a better world" for the next generation.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 11:16 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Lupin was my favourite character (after Snape) after I read PoA especially after I saw the film. I always felt sorry for him but not in a bad way. So I am disappointed with how he was portrayed in DH and even in HBP. He comes across as having suspect motives and for a while I thought he was under the Imperius curse, he was not the Lupin we know and love. He is miserable when Tonks is happy and you can't help think, get over it, make the most of the time you have together. Harry's fight with Lupin shocked me, it felt a little staged and they never really talk properly again. Lupin is brave and good but he is not the boy we see in the pensieve in OoTP anymore


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  #27  
Old July 25th, 2007, 6:43 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

I think Lupin is really one of the great, complex characters of all fantasy literature. I believe his strenghts and weaknesses are all naturally connected to his being a werewolf. His strengths are that he can always see the good in other people even though he can't necessarily see it in himself. Also, he happens to be a very powerful wizard. But I'll save the rest of that for an uncoming question in a few moments. I think Lupin, although best friends with both Sirius and James was always a bit of the outsider. In nearly all group of friends, people normally connect to one better than the other. I don't think it's intentional at all, and it's obvious that any of the three of them would put their lives on the line for one another. I imagine Lupin sort of sequestered himself off. Pettigrew I'm sure he feels very betrayed by. I bet he wondered why they chose Peter over himself when they switched from Sirius. I imagine there were quite some harsh feelings about that. As far as Lily goes, I can see him being on friendly terms with her before James and her got together. He was a Prefect and judging from how good a student she herself was, I assume they had that in common. I could definitely see Lily viewing Lupin as the matrue one out of the group.

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

If he was happy in his marriage and fatherhood, which he eventually proved to be, I'd say yes, even though it seemed rush. However, in times of war, people marry in droves and have children in droves. So I suppose that wasn't at all too surprising. I for one do not think he left Dora for a long period of time. We would have heard about a mousy haired Tonks at some point. Besides, in war, especially in one which both partners are engaged in, they can't ALWAYS be together. While it bothered me that Lupin entertained the idea of leaving his wife and child, I could see why. I doubt that he had much experience at all with women and then he so quickly finds himself married and a to be father, which I'm sure made his mind implode for a little while. The fact that people truly truly were going to depend on him and need him probably frightened him. Being a werewolf, no one really needs you or depends on you.

3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

I don't recall Lupin ever sending a letter to anyone, aside from Moody in GOF at the beginning of the Term. It makes me wonder if he even afforded an owl. I see to remember owls being quite expensive. I think that he probabaly didn't want to add to Harry's stress by emerging as the guy who was just like "Hi, your dad and I were good friends in school..." He didn't want to add to anything that Harry had to deal with already.

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

Lupin, as I mentioned in the 1st answer, was a very powerful wizard. Lupin can do magic without a wand or any instrument (the train to Hogwarts in PoA, he makes a ball of fire in his hands), and the only other person I can think of off hand to be able to do that is Dumbledore. So on top of being a very impressive wizard, he played a double agent to the werewolves.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

Whether it was right or wrong, it was something that was perfectly in character to do. All his friends died for the same cause. Lupin was a brave person and wouldn't sit idly by like many have said. The fact that he knew Dora was out of harms way with his son probably made him feel better about it. I doubt he was happy when he saw her battling.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 7:26 pm
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Remus John Lupin - Character

I think that Remus fell out of character on page 214 when he went to the house to try to join the quest with the golden trio.

He was totally not the responsible man we'd seen up to that point! Of course on page 414 he was back in character once more, responsible again and thanking Harry for the kick in the pants (on the radio show - and he did it subtly but I think we all understood what he meant by 'nearly always right, lol).

It seems to me that JKR did this merely to make an interesting little side plot - even though it meant drawing Remus quite a bit out of character. It did make the book more angsty for me...I suffered miserably for 200 pages waiting to hear from Remus again. (and cheering every time Harry felt miserable!)

Oh and I was delighted when he sent that curse at Harry - I wanted to send one myself! But contrast this to when Harry called Snape a coward. The small knocking curse Lupin made was nothing in comparison to the whips Snape pulled out and used. I think it was written this way to show us that despite his anger, he loved Harry and cared about him a lot, which we all knew, and it was as if he were striking a friend for saying something that tore him apart (I could totally see the Marauders using this on one another in anger, lol).

Rem was my favorite character in the whole HP series - liked him even better than Harry and my only regret is that we didn't see a whole lot more of him. But I was glad he ended up happy in the afterworld. Those of you who post here alot already know this because I must have made a 1000 posts begging JKR to do this before DH came out, lol. Sorry, but I just am so happy she did it. Thanks JKR if u see this!



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  #29  
Old July 25th, 2007, 8:42 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin - Character

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
But contrast this to when Harry called Snape a coward. The small knocking curse Lupin made was nothing in comparison to the whips Snape pulled out and used. I think it was written this way to show us that despite his anger, he loved Harry and cared about him a lot, which we all knew, and it was as if he were striking a friend for saying something that tore him apart (I could totally see the Marauders using this on one another in anger, lol).
The parallel with Snape there was probably the most shocking thing about that scene for me, that Harry would choose the word "coward" to describe him when it was the same word that most set off Snape. Apart from the literal response of curses in both cases, though, I think the big difference is that Remus obviously took something away from that experience and learned from it.

The more I think about that scene, the more interesting it is. First, we have Harry calling Lupin by his first name. Up to that point, their relationship was still quite obviously dictated by the line between student and teacher, but here we have Harry making a definite decision that they are now on some kind of equal footing. Then, Harry makes another leap by initiating an argument, something which definitely indicates that he feels like he has that right and responsibility to call him out if he feels he's doing something wrong. Likewise, Remus makes that same leap by cursing Harry, which we know he never would have even considered had he not felt that Harry was somehow his peer rather than his pupil or charge. Finally, although I think we can all agree that there are bits of what Harry says that are pretty out of order (like urqu says above, his accusation that Remus is trying to be more like Sirius really doesn't fit the situation at all), he definitely gives him the wake-up call he needs; Remus's moment on the wireless broadcast shows us that. It's almost like we've seen a reversal of roles where the student becomes the teacher. But above all, this whole shocking incident which has frustrated so many of us in some way has actually asserted what so many of us have been hoping for ever since the end of PoA: that one day, Harry and Remus might break down that barrier and see each other simply as friends.

Of course, my first instinct with this scene was to agree with you, wickedwickedboy, that JKR just side-stepped character boundaries to create something plotwise, and maybe a lot of my rationalization of it is merely my wanting to make sense of something that before we never would have expected to see from Remus. However, I definitely think that, at least on some level, she wanted to show us a progression in their relationship, if for no other reason than the fact that Harry does address him as "Remus" rather than "Lupin". It's also notable to that the same thing happens at the end, when we see "Remus and Tonks" dead, rather than "Lupin and Tonks".


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Old July 25th, 2007, 9:21 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin - Character

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Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
Of course, my first instinct with this scene was to agree with you, wickedwickedboy, that JKR just side-stepped character boundaries to create something plotwise, and maybe a lot of my rationalization of it is merely my wanting to make sense of something that before we never would have expected to see from Remus. However, I definitely think that, at least on some level, she wanted to show us a progression in their relationship, if for no other reason than the fact that Harry does address him as "Remus" rather than "Lupin". It's also notable to that the same thing happens at the end, when we see "Remus and Tonks" dead, rather than "Lupin and Tonks".
DH was the first book where Harry, and by extension us, saw the characters as they really were. He, and therefore, we, were looking at them through adult eyes, for the first time. Remus having a minor nervous breakdown was, obviously for us, an unprecedented response, but that is part of his character (Harry just didn't know it). Sirius says in OOTP that he has been known to rant about matters.

Harry was Remus student, not his equal. For the first time in DH, we saw the real man: temperamental, cynical, protective of Tonks , plagued by insecurity and self - loathing and ultimately a man in the end, who revelled in having a normal family life, with a wife and son. It is just such a shame that Teddy would never know his parents, and that they would never know him. At least they had a few months to enjoy with him.


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  #31  
Old July 25th, 2007, 9:28 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin - Character

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Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
The parallel with Snape there was probably the most shocking thing about that scene for me, that Harry would choose the word "coward" to describe him when it was the same word that most set off Snape. Apart from the literal response of curses in both cases, though, I think the big difference is that Remus obviously took something away from that experience and learned from it.

The more I think about that scene, the more interesting it is. First, we have Harry calling Lupin by his first name. Up to that point, their relationship was still quite obviously dictated by the line between student and teacher, but here we have Harry making a definite decision that they are now on some kind of equal footing. Then, Harry makes another leap by initiating an argument, something which definitely indicates that he feels like he has that right and responsibility to call him out if he feels he's doing something wrong. Likewise, Remus makes that same leap by cursing Harry, which we know he never would have even considered had he not felt that Harry was somehow his peer rather than his pupil or charge. Finally, although I think we can all agree that there are bits of what Harry says that are pretty out of order (like urqu says above, his accusation that Remus is trying to be more like Sirius really doesn't fit the situation at all), he definitely gives him the wake-up call he needs; Remus's moment on the wireless broadcast shows us that. It's almost like we've seen a reversal of roles where the student becomes the teacher. But above all, this whole shocking incident which has frustrated so many of us in some way has actually asserted what so many of us have been hoping for ever since the end of PoA: that one day, Harry and Remus might break down that barrier and see each other simply as friends.

Of course, my first instinct with this scene was to agree with you, wickedwickedboy, that JKR just side-stepped character boundaries to create something plotwise, and maybe a lot of my rationalization of it is merely my wanting to make sense of something that before we never would have expected to see from Remus. However, I definitely think that, at least on some level, she wanted to show us a progression in their relationship, if for no other reason than the fact that Harry does address him as "Remus" rather than "Lupin". It's also notable to that the same thing happens at the end, when we see "Remus and Tonks" dead, rather than "Lupin and Tonks".

Wow. Thanks for writing that. I totally appreciate you laying out more clearly for my mind. I absolutely got all of that from the reading, but I really couldn't pinpoint why. But you are right. The first name thing was probably what unconciously made me feel like Harry had accepted Remus into his circle of life (a term getting popular around here to mean those that you care about more than the general mob). I think you are 100% correct. I did come away feeling that Harry spoke from the heart that day, not just because he wanted Remus to be there for his wife and kid as James had been, but also because of the respect and care he had for Remus and (even if unconciously) did not want to see someone in his circle of life make what he thought would be a drastic error. I did make the connection, but much later...at the reunion scene he also calls him Remus. (it would have saved me 200 pages of reading in misery and anger at JKR if I had made the connection sooner as you did!! )

But I still think she made the scene to add interest to the sideplot. She could have shown us all of the above without pulling Remus out of character. Because she made it all better in the end, I don't mind so much and it wasn't totally unplausible or anything.

Harry was certainly out of order (deserved the little jinx for that) but I agree, Remus needed the kick in the pants for forgetting who he was for a spell, lol. And yes, I also saw Remus' reaction as that of one friend to another as I mentioned above. And more than a casual friend (who he would not have cursed) and not a person he had no regard for (who he would have likely sent some thing much worse at, lol). It was a reaction reserved for beloved circle of life friends and I think even Harry understood that. Too, we must give Harry a little credit, he admitted to having gone overboard and that he should not have called Remus a coward, even if he was acting cowardly for the moment. That showed Harry understood Remus was not actually a coward...something we all knew (and Harry too) from many past examples.

BTW, I don't think Remus believed Harry thought him a coward; he is mature and would understand Harry meant that he was acting cowardly. On the other hand Snape did believe Harry thought he was a coward - and reflection wouldn't have changed that belief at that point in their relationship.

In the end, Remus got the end I had prayed for. I so wanted him to join the Marauders. I have been pleading in posts for that for some time. The interview quoted above was interesting. I thought she had the Marauder in heaven reunion planned from the start. But I am so happy she switched Mr. W for Remus in the end. He is happy, with Tonks and his friends and left a legacy (who will be loved)- - I couldn't ask for more.



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  #32  
Old July 25th, 2007, 9:36 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Lupin was one of those great characters IMO. Completely flawed and inperfect and he knew it. He never saw himself as deserving friends or love because of his furry problem. He was loyal to a fault which was his greatest strength and he did not believe in himself which was his greatest weakness.


2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?


Yes he made the right decision both in marrying her and going back to them. He had been so trained to think that everyone saw werewolves as bad that he did not want to burden them with living with his stigma but he didn't realize or understand that love is blind and if you love someone you stand beside them regardless of any problems they may have.

3. Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

Well before Harry entered Hogwarts I think anyone associated with the Potters agreed it was best for Harry not to know who he was or what had happened thinking it would give him a normal childhood. Once he went to Hogwarts I think Lupin was simply afraid Harry would be one of those people who wanted nothing to do with a werewolf.

4. What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

Yea know I am not sure. I don't get the feeling that DD used him the same way back then.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

Yes sadly he made the right choice. He had to do what he could to try and make sure Teddy could grow up in a world that was free of the kind of evil that LV promoted.


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  #33  
Old July 25th, 2007, 11:56 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

Remus I think is a brilliant character, one of the best and most well thought out characters in the book. I love the fact that he isn't perfect or seen as perfect (ie Dumbledore) he had self doubts, he had problems with his perceptions of himself and yet he was loved and respected by many anyway. His loyalty, bravery, kindness and empathy have always been present and progressed along with the character as he goes from mentor, to friend, to husband, to father.


2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?
Yes on both accounts, I can see why he'd struggle afterwards and think that his condition would distance them from the rest of society. Again I think what Lupin is trying to do is please everyone. He's having trouble accepting that not everyone will like him, or his family for who they are. Thats a sad fact of life and Remus has always sought the acceptance and friendship of others. I think ultimatley he comes to understand that as long as those hes close to love him and his family then that is all that matters.

3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

It was probably deemed wiser to give Harry some space from the "ghosts" of his past in terms of his parents, or parents friends especially at such a young age he was too young to be exposed to the utter barbaric truth about their deaths. How would Lupin relate this? Via Owl? He couldn't walk up to Harry and talk to him in the flesh due to many circumstances and seeing as Remus is quite empethatic and cares about others he would probably be aware that certain things need to be said face to face. With support offered, rather than via Owl etc.

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

I'm not sure, I don't think Dumbledore used him in any special role. Other than a member of the Order operating like all the others.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

Yes he made the right decision, he chose to fight to make a better world for his son. One that Teddy could live in happily and as such I think the love he had for his son and his wife would drive him more to fight than to stay out of the conflict. I can imagine that if Tonks and Remus had took a back seat and it turned out that the "good" has lost then they would be living in a horrible world. Constantly wondering if they could have changed the outcome. Lupin was the kind of man who would do all that he could to shepherd in a better tomorrow.


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Old July 26th, 2007, 5:08 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I think JKR once stated that Lupin was one of her favorite characters. In PoA, he seemed like one of the only truly good and unflawed adults in the books. Sure, he was a werewolf, but that was only a physical problem. It was more important his mind was unprejudiced; he never showed favoritism and was a good role model for all, not caring what others thought of his shabby appearance.

I really think his stage presence went downhill after PoA, though he is still one of my favorites. All of his other appearances seemed rushed, as though JKR was just including him to remind us that he was still there. He was always described as looking older and grayer than the last time Harry saw him. Indeed, he was described in this fashion so many times that he must have looked like he was about 80 by the time we got to DH.

I think his flaws make him more likeable (I mean, no one can be THAT calm, cool, and collected), but I was rather shocked by his behavior toward Harry at the beginning of DH. However, he did later redeem himself. I guess my main problem is not with him, but with the way his character was written after PoA. He seemed to be shunted off to the side, and many of his actions did not seem to fit with the impression I was left with at the end of PoA. I'll always remember him as the DADA teacher, because that was when he was most attractive as a character.


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Old July 26th, 2007, 6:47 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I agree that JKR didn't do a very good job at writing Remus' character. I think that like Madron mentioned above, some people lost respect for him in DH, completely misunderstanding what she was trying to say. She rushed his out of character persona in DH on everyone and those who hadn't followed him very closely took things at face value. Some people lived and died by Harry's construction at #12 and suddenly everything that was written before about Remus went out of the window. I think some even missed the fact that he was acting out of character because they hadn't really consiered his character before that or they had merely considered it in a very light, minor character, unimportant way.

However, those of us who deeply loved the character searched for answers. Seriously, I went from page 214 to 441 with so much anger in my heart for JKR, it reached the point where I found myself having to re-read things. I cheered everytime anything bad happened to Harry - and my respect for him fell about 50%. I don't think she meant for the interaction between Remus and Harry to have that big of an impact on anyone, especially seeing how she worked it out starting on page 441 and it only got better after that. And I also think she thought it wouldn't impact us much because Remus was not a character of the level of Ron or Hermione, etc. Note how quickly Ron's tirade was repaired. I think she knew that would cause angst, but it was not 200 pages worth. That is something I don't think she took into consideration.

And what she didn't write, but what I believe based on Remus' character is that he would have eventually gone back to Tonks and his baby whether he spoke with Harry or not.

ps. I understand she was rushed, perhaps for both page length and time, so in the after-math I am more forgiving. I mean even with Hedwig, there was little mourning by Harry and the poor kid had to blow the bird up, couldn't even let him just drop. I think in a longer book and with more time, JKR would have written things a lot differently and in a little less abrupt manner.



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Old July 26th, 2007, 8:40 am
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I too noticed the slight change in how Lupin's former students soon started calling him Remus. I believe Hermione does it too at one point.
The fact that he cursed Harry cemented how much Harry meant to him...to have someone you care about insult you is way worse than someone you don't give a rip about insult you, although I have never seen Lupin as someone who was ever violent toward anyone that wasn't a Death Eater or someone to ever lose their temper.

Is it just me, or did it seem like since Dumbledore's death, the Order seemed to really rest on his shoulders along with Kingsley and Arthur? I think it had a lot to do with how he sort of became a little unhinged more often in this book.


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Old July 26th, 2007, 3:16 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
I agree that JKR didn't do a very good job at writing Remus' character. I think that like Madron mentioned above, some people lost respect for him in DH, completely misunderstanding what she was trying to say. She rushed his out of character persona in DH on everyone and those who hadn't followed him very closely took things at face value. Some people lived and died by Harry's construction at #12 and suddenly everything that was written before about Remus went out of the window. I think some even missed the fact that he was acting out of character because they hadn't really consiered his character before that or they had merely considered it in a very light, minor character, unimportant way.

However, those of us who deeply loved the character searched for answers. Seriously, I went from page 214 to 441 with so much anger in my heart for JKR, it reached the point where I found myself having to re-read things. I cheered everytime anything bad happened to Harry - and my respect for him fell about 50%. I don't think she meant for the interaction between Remus and Harry to have that big of an impact on anyone, especially seeing how she worked it out starting on page 441 and it only got better after that. And I also think she thought it wouldn't impact us much because Remus was not a character of the level of Ron or Hermione, etc. Note how quickly Ron's tirade was repaired. I think she knew that would cause angst, but it was not 200 pages worth. That is something I don't think she took into consideration.

And what she didn't write, but what I believe based on Remus' character is that he would have eventually gone back to Tonks and his baby whether he spoke with Harry or not.

ps. I understand she was rushed, perhaps for both page length and time, so in the after-math I am more forgiving. I mean even with Hedwig, there was little mourning by Harry and the poor kid had to blow the bird up, couldn't even let him just drop. I think in a longer book and with more time, JKR would have written things a lot differently and in a little less abrupt manner.
My only issue with that whole scene with Harry being so horrible to Lupin was that imo JKR did not clearly show how upset harry was by what he felt he had to do. Harry was so afraid of losing yet another Father figure, he had lost James, Sirius and Dumbledore and Harry could not have bared it to lose Lupin and take Lupin from his own child to. So Harry was actually quite brave in saying the one thing guaranteed to make Lupin wake up and go back to Tonks and their unborn child. It actually cost Harry to hurt Lupin like that because he had no way of knowing if Lupin would ever forgive him. My heart ached for Lupin, so afraid he had damned Tonks and unborn Teddy to a life as an outcast simply because Tonks fell in love with a werewolf. And then when Harry saw Lupin and Tonk's bodies lying there next to Fred. I lost it I couldn't believe Lupin was gone, Harry's last connection to his parents.


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Old July 26th, 2007, 3:29 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Some people lived and died by Harry's construction at #12 and suddenly everything that was written before about Remus went out of the window. I think some even missed the fact that he was acting out of character because they hadn't really consiered his character before that or they had merely considered it in a very light, minor character, unimportant way.
Well said. The brilliant think that JKR does with her characters is show you that they all have their unsavory flaws. We even discover in DH that good ol' Dumbledore has had to struggle with the darker parts of his personality his whole life. I think a lot of people have liked Remus so much because he looked so much like an infallible character: he always seemed calm, always knew the right thing to say in every situation, was able to put his own stuggles behind him to be there for others. But if you really examine his character up to DH, you realize that he always had those flaws that rear their ugly heads so suddenly and violently. I definitely agree that JKR might have done that scene differently to a much greater (and more universally understood) effect, but she does show us that the incident at Grimmauld Place was just that--an incident--and if there's any one thing we're supposed to learn from Remus, it's that you can't judge a person based on one moment or one characteristic. It's pretty obvious that he realizes his mistake and makes amends, and it takes a strong character to own up to such a serious misjudgement.

ETA: Okay, so JKR has revealed in an interview with USA Today that Lupin and Tonks are indeed the two characters she had not initially intended to die:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR, USA Today
There were deaths that were traumatic to write, she says.

"Fred (Weasley, brother of Harry's friend Ron), Lupin (a former teacher at Hogwarts, the school for wizards and witches that Harry attended) and Tonks (Lupin's wife) really caused me a lot of pain," Rowling says.

"Lupin and Tonks were two who were killed who I had intended to keep alive. … It's like an exchange of hostages, isn't it? And I kept Mr. Weasley (Ron's father) alive. He was slated to die in the very, very original draft of the story."
So, what do you all think about this switch that she made? Does it make Remus and Tonks's deaths have more purpose to know who was supposed to die instead? Is that purpose served better/worse by substituting them for Mr. Weasley?


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Old July 26th, 2007, 6:34 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

In reference to that USA Today quote...I can understand why she'd switch Arthur with Lupin...but Lupin AND Tonks? I think killing both of them was unnecessary.
I think she decided to get rid of Lupin over Arthur because Lupin was truly the last person who had a real connection with his father...he was one of James' best buddies and I suppose she just wanted to cut all physical ties to the past. And I think perhaps Ron losing his father might have been like...perhaps to close to Harry's own perdicament, especially since Ron is also a main character where Teddy isn't, so somehow maybe it's alright for him to be orphaned rather than Ron be fatherless. I think she killed Lupin because it would maybe be...less traumatic. In my eyes, it's very sad to be orphaned at such a young age. But to be 17 and lose a father that was so much a part of your life would be I think even more devastating and to write that into an already packed book would have been too much attention away from Harry essentially.
But why she had to kill both Lupin and Tonks I'll never know. The fact that BOTH of them died could add more purpose to their death I guess...I'm still wrestling with that idea.


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Old July 26th, 2007, 8:03 pm
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Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I thought maybe she didn't want to leave Tonks in misery, but considering she left George in the same state Tonks would have been in, I have no idea why she killed Tonks. Maybe so people could understand how a brilliant wizard like Remus (one of 3 in the entire series to show wand less magic capability) could die. Tonks ran after him when he fought Dolovoh (however u spell it) and perhaps she distracted him? For those who realized Remus' alibility, that would make more sense than him just being killed by some DE. We can't be certain that it was Dolovoh that killed him...he may have moved on into a different battle or joined one that Tonks was fighting and Dolovoh or another DE attacked from behind. We don't know. But it allows for more probable outcomes if Tonks did at some point come into his line of vision during the battle. It was all I could think when I saw Tonks was dead too.

This is kind of also given support by the fact that their bodies were lying next to one another, as if they had been found at the same time somewhere and brought into the castle (so they were likely close together). Then too, they were married, so they could have simply been placed together, so it is kind of left open for everyone to decide for themselves.

My version: He died a valiant death as did Tonks while fighting to save the wizard world. Now he is happy with James and Sirius


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