Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old July 13th, 2007, 12:46 am
hermy_weasley2's Avatar
hermy_weasley2  Female.gif hermy_weasley2 is offline
Unspeakable
 
Joined: 5543 days
Age: 30
Posts: 2,133
Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Remus Lupin. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?


__________________
Avatar created by Vita

Last edited by Jessica; July 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 pm.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old July 24th, 2007, 4:15 am
sgwilliamson  Undisclosed.gif sgwilliamson is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4197 days
Posts: 10
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

[quote=hermy_weasley2;4629927]Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Remus Lupin. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis



1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

I wish we had seen more of him - he really earned a place in my heart in PoA. Strength would be his constant support of the OOTP, and his role as the peacemaker. Biggest weakness is his self doubt. I don't think we know enough about him to make judgement on his relationships to most people.

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

If he truly loved her, and I think he did, marriage was the right decision, and once you marry you have a partner for life, so of course he was right to go home! That whole scene was so odd though, I was hoping Harry would knock him out. Did he think so little of Tonks that she would enter marriage lightly, without considering the consequences? And accepting them? Boys are so relationship-challenged.

3. Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

Let's remember he thought Sirius thought HE was the spy. He didn't know that no one told Harry these suspicions, or ANYthing about his family. Looking at the situation with Tonks, he also might have thought that Harry wouldn't want to be associated with a werewolf. OMG can you imagine THAT intro at Number 4? Vernon would've had a coronary.

4. What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

I think so. Another of Lupin's strengths is his courage - you won't catch me living with those nutjobs!

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

After seeing what his parents' sacrifice did to Harry, I'm sure going back to the battle was very difficult for him. However, as Sirius told us, there are things worth dying for, and I think he'd rather die knowing he helped make the world a better place for his son than sitting at home feeling useless. He has enough self-esteem issues without having survivor's guilt if he'd lived while Tonks died. Still, all so sad, making me teary!


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 24th, 2007, 4:34 am
padfootandme  Female.gif padfootandme is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 5199 days
Location: 12 Grimmauld Place
Age: 28
Posts: 707
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?
Yes, I really think he did the right thing by marrying Tonks. If he didn't, they would both be alone and depressed. If they love each other, what others think shouldn't matter. And Lupin definately made the right decision going back to them. He couldn't just abandon his wife and son for another group of kids. He would have been risking his life and his future as a dad for his son.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?
I think Lupin did exactly what he was meant to do. There is no question in my mind that he would have been able to live with himself had he not gone to fight. His best friends died at Voldemort's hands, his wife's father died, so many of his friends and other innocent people died, and Lupin is not one to sit on the side lines. He joined the Order and agreed to fight, so wiggling out of it is not something I could see him doing.


__________________
Good luck, Harry, wherever you are.
If you read this, Harry, we're all behind you!
Long live Harry Potter.

Here lies Dobby, a free elf.

"That wand's more trouble than it's worth, and quite honestly, I've had enough trouble for a lifetime."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:05 pm
SiriusLoveGirl  Female.gif SiriusLoveGirl is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4634 days
Location: Other side of the veil
Age: 25
Posts: 111
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis


1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

His major weakness is wanting to be liked. He wants his son to like him, but believes he won't because his son will blame Remus if he is a werewolf.

Relationships:
Sirius Black - Despite what fangirls (including me) say, we have no evidence that they were...'together'. They were the best friends each other had left, and stuck together and looked out for each other. Remus noticed right when Sirius fell through the veil. They can understand each other, almost to the point where they don't have to say much to convey what they are thinking.
Fenrir Greyback - Dislikes him. Of course.
Alastor Moody - Respects him, likes him. On good terms with one another.
James Potter - Close friends. Probably looked up to James (as he was the 'leader of the pack', so to speak) and respected him. Loved him for accepting that he was a werewolf (this applies to Sirius and Lily as well). Grateful to him for being his friend.
Lily Evans - He was probably friends with her even when she wasn't friends with James. Their personalities would have gotten on well together.
Peter Pettigrew - I'd imagine he feels betrayed and hates him for killing James and Lily and sending Sirius to Azkaban. Peter effectively ruined his life.
Severus Snape - I believed him when he said he neither liked nor disliked Severus. I couldn't sense too much animosity between them.
Harry Potter - Loves him as a...hmm. Nephew? Son? Something like that. Of course he loves him and respects him.


2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

He made the right choice on both accounts. Remus needs to see that Dora loves him and Teddy will too. Dora can see through the 'furry problem', even if he can't. She made the choice to marry him, too. Despite all the hatred he probably gets for being what he is, he needs to see that not everyone is going to hate him. It's kind of like what Dumbledore said to Hagrid: If he's waiting for universal popularity, he's going to be waiting a very long time indeed.


3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?
He may have felt a little guilty, and worried that Harry wouldn't like him.


4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?
He might have used his connections, but I think he might have just been a fighter.


5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?
He'd never be able to forgive himself if he hadn't fought while his friends were dying. He did what he had to do.


__________________
"I once knew a boy who made all the wrong choices."
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:11 pm
ignisia's Avatar
ignisia  Female.gif ignisia is offline
Leader of the GLITTELUTION
 
Joined: 4495 days
Location: Sitting in a Tin Can
Age: 29
Posts: 4,418
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Throughout DH, I think Remus had to face a lot of problems that had remained unsolved in the first 6 books. His feeling of isolation and desire to be a Marauder again would explain his willingness to leave pregnant Tonks and go off adventuring. Rather like grasping at his lost past because he was too frightened to face his future. Harry set him straight.


__________________
I am incapable of hating someone who, instead of using a spell to guard the Sorcerer's Stone, uses a logic puzzle.
I'm sorry.



VIVA LA GLITTELUTION
Looking for a home away from home?
Hogsmeade ~ Apparate.me
Avatar by SIP
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:22 pm
Blast_ended  Undisclosed.gif Blast_ended is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4684 days
Posts: 183
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Lupin is one of the most complicated characters of the series - nearly like Snape. While overall he's a nice guy, he does seem to think too lowly about himself - remember how he refused to marry tonks in HBP becuase "Tonks deserves more than me"? How he can't stop feeling guilt because he thinks people are now afraid of tonks? he has a really week personality. A stronger person could have said "*** you all, that's me and if you don't accept it it's your problem, no one forces you to hang out with me", but he never said that, he accept the sad truth instead of trying to fight it. And also (JK said that) - once he has friends, he's too grateful for that and he'll always put himself in the last place, just to prove his friends he's worthy.

That's my very short character analysis of him...



Last edited by Jessica; July 24th, 2007 at 7:39 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 24th, 2007, 7:58 pm
katyscarlett  Female.gif katyscarlett is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: Liverpool, UK
Age: 41
Posts: 155
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?

He's been my favourite character since he was introduced in POA, his sense of humour and compassion for others (especially Neville in POA and Molly in OOTP) and the fact that he has had to face such discrimination from such a young age, definitely endeared him to me. As much as I love him, I don't think that he did mature much over the books he's still as worried about acceptance and being liked in DH as he was in POA. However he did seem to loose some of his humour in HBP and did not appear to regain it until after his confrontation with Harry at Grimmauld. The Remus we hear on Potterwatch is more like that of POA and OOTP than HBP, I like to attribute that to his finally understanding that as long as he loves Tonks and she loves him they can be happy no matter what anyone else thinks.


2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

Absolutely, I think that his need for being liked blinded him to the fact that as long as they loved him, it didn't matter if everyone else disliked him. I do think getting married was the right decision, I think they both needed to feel the permanence of their relationship after their separation in HBP. I do think though that they got pregnant way too soon and that if the pregnancy was later in their marriage he may not have had so much of a freak out (though I'm sure he probably would have had a little one). However that would have meant that they would never have had a child at all


3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?
A combination of factors, I think before Harry started at Hogwarts there was something stopping magical people getting in touch with him. Once he was at Hogwarts, I dunno maybe he thought it would freak Harry out, a strange guy writing to him "hey I knew your parents lets be penpals". I think that getting to know Harry may have been a big reason for him taking the job at Hogwarts. I also think that Remus's life pre-POA must have been quite hard, all of your friends wiped out like that, it can't have been easy and maybe he just thought it would be too painful.

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?
It would make sense, and give a good reason for the Potters and Sirius not to trust him to be secret keeper or to know of the switch.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?
If anything I think he would have been more into the battle for Teddy's sake, fighting for a better world for Teddy to grow up in. As to whether that was the right decision, I'm not sure. His and Tonks' deaths leave Teddy an orphan but I think that it would have tortured Remus had he not fought and Voldemort won (I'm sure he would have thought that he'd let down Harry, Dumbledore, Lily and James, and Sirius) In a Voldemort run world both he and Tonks would have been targets anyway and Teddy himself may have been a target. And I don't think that either he or Tonks are the type to wait for the fight to come to them.


__________________
I'm sorry katyscarlett's not available at the moment, she's riding through time and space with The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:19 pm
amandam_xym  Undisclosed.gif amandam_xym is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4646 days
Location: Western Peverell
Posts: 66
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

I think that Lupin is so insecure about himself as a result of having to cover up, for so many years, the fact that he is a werewolf. I do think though, that there was no question of him ever staying behind whilst others fought - after all, he is a Griffindor! He is courageous and could not have lived with himself had he not fought against Voldemort.


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old July 24th, 2007, 8:59 pm
Schlubalybub's Avatar
Schlubalybub  Female.gif Schlubalybub is offline
Suteki da ne
 
Joined: 5621 days
Location: North East Wales
Age: 32
Posts: 2,749
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

When I first read about Lupin wanting to leave Tonks, I wasn't very impressed with him. But when I read about his reasons for wanting to leave, I began to understand, and I realised that he was a very insecure man, and he didn't want to push his problem onto any child of his...


__________________

We asked ourselves, "Can we really fight 24 hours?" And the answer was, "We will fight 8,760 hours!"
- Nobuo Uematsu


Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old July 24th, 2007, 9:08 pm
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 4851 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,036
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlubalybub View Post
When I first read about Lupin wanting to leave Tonks, I wasn't very impressed with him. But when I read about his reasons for wanting to leave, I began to understand, and I realised that he was a very insecure man, and he didn't want to push his problem onto any child of his...
Personally, I could not understand this. He knew what he was getting into by consenting to marriage. He is a lot older than his wife, who we saw nothing but support him. While Tonks would have needed him during her pregnancy he wallowed in self-pity and self-loathing. Moreover, he knew how much Harry suffered from not having a proper family. I lost a lot of respect for Remus in DH.


Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old July 24th, 2007, 9:20 pm
Credo Buffa's Avatar
Credo Buffa  Female.gif Credo Buffa is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5215 days
Location: Minnesota
Age: 35
Posts: 1,092
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses?

I'll start from the last question and work to the first. Remus's clear weakness is insecurity and a lack of self-esteem that has obviously developed from a lifetime of being an outsider who has been shunned for something which he cannot control. But luckily for him, his great strength is believing in the good of people and wanting to be a good person himself. He's lived his whole life trying to be that good person, only to find that it gets him almost nowhere. Meanwhile, all the people he has ever loved have suffered, and that's a very sad place to be.

Over the course of the series, I think we've seen him slowly try to reconcile those two sides: the person he feels he is deep down and the person the rest of the world believes him to be. Early on, he accepts his lot, refuses to complain, and basically lets himself live quietly in his suffering. By HBP, he's starting to allow his emotions to come to the surface. We see flickers of frustration and overt grief that we've never seen before. We see him actively pushing away from close relationships because he feels he can be no good for anyone, like he doesn't deserve love and that the ones he cares about deserve better. Finally, in DH, all that pent-up emotion comes to a head when he argues with Harry. Harry pretty much throws his demons out at Remus, forces him to see them for what they are and what they are doing to him and the people he loves. That blanket articulation of his need to stop running away and start letting good things into his life was a turning point for him. For the first time, we see him happy, proud of something that he has done--brought Teddy into the world--and willing to show it off.


2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?

He definitely makes the right decision. As explained above, his biggest weakness is a lack of self-esteem and the belief that he can only do harm to those close to him, so his choosing to marry Tonks in the first place and then going back to her is probably the defining step for him toward building a new and healthier sense of self.

3. Why didn’t Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?

Probably the same reason he tried to run away from Tonks: he was afraid of emotional attachment, both on his part (what if Harry thought he was a dark creature like everyone else?) and Harry's (if they did develop a close relationship, would Remus be endangering him?).

4. What was Lupin’s role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?

That's my best guess. It would explain why he wasn't at Godric's Hollow after the Potters' deaths, at least. I would also venture to guess that's how he found out that Greyback was the one who bit him.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?

I think he explained himself pretty well when Harry apologized to him after he'd died. He said that he was glad knowing that he was working to make a better world for Teddy. I see it as almost a sacrifice that he felt he had to make for his son. Likewise, he probably felt obligated to be there, fighting with and for the people he cared about most. There are some good points by others here as well that he surely felt that he owed it to the memories of his friends to do everything he could to fight Voldemort.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Madron View Post
Personally, I could not understand this. He knew what he was getting into by consenting to marriage. He is a lot older than his wife, who we saw nothing but support him. While Tonks would have needed him during her pregnancy he wallowed in self-pity and self-loathing. Moreover, he knew how much Harry suffered from not having a proper family. I lost a lot of respect for Remus in DH.
I was really upset by this at first as well, but the more I think about it, the more I think it makes sense. As I explain above, there seems to be a subtle progression in Remus's character from PoA in which we see him becoming more and more frustrated with his life, yet feeling powerless to do anything about it. I honestly do think that choosing to leave Tonks and his unborn son was the absolute worst decision he could possibly make, but it was a decision he made before he had the emotional ability to deal with everything that was happening in his life. Before, the best way he knew to feel like he wasn't a burden or a harm to anyone was to avoid close relationships, just like he tried to do with Tonks in HBP. But once he'd make the leap to marry her, that kind of avoidance simply wouldn't work anymore. Of course, he probably didn't really understand or accept the implications of what he was doing until Harry called him out on it. I think he realized it right away, which accounts for his sudden outburst of anger; he was probably more angry with himself than Harry, but didn't know how to handle being confronted so blatantly with his own true weakness--not that he was a werewolf, but that he allowed himself, and was about to allow his wife and child, to emotionally suffer because of it. But it is a true testament to his character that he was so dramatically able to turn things around: he realized his mistake, went back to her, and was probably as happy as he'd ever been in his life.

I guess I see Remus in DH as Harry in OoTP. Harry was an angry person in OoTP: he shouted at people who didn't deserve it, shunned his friends who were trying to help him, etc. But being angry was, I think, and important and cathartic thing for him. He needed to get that out of his system before he could accept what lay ahead. I think it's one of the great misconceptions that people who suffer should not be allowed their moments of anger, however uncharacteristic and irrational they might seem. For Remus (and for a lot of people), feeling like he should just accept things clearly wasn't working. He was internalizing his emotional struggles and not allowing himself catharsis. He needed that outburst and that wake-up call. He needed to realize: "Life has been cruel to me. I don't deserve to feel like I have to always run away from the people I love, and they don't deserve that either. It's awful, I hate it, and I should be able to feel angry and upset and scream and cry if I want to, because it's not fair." And if he had to make a huge mistake to get there, then so be it. Once he'd finally had that moment, though, he could move on.


__________________

Last edited by Credo Buffa; July 24th, 2007 at 9:44 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old July 24th, 2007, 9:34 pm
sweets7's Avatar
sweets7  Female.gif sweets7 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4681 days
Posts: 724
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madron View Post
Personally, I could not understand this. He knew what he was getting into by consenting to marriage. He is a lot older than his wife, who we saw nothing but support him. While Tonks would have needed him during her pregnancy he wallowed in self-pity and self-loathing. Moreover, he knew how much Harry suffered from not having a proper family. I lost a lot of respect for Remus in DH.
I don't think Lupin ever really left tonks. Left for a few days; saw Harry; Harry knocked some sense into him and he went back.

Now that we have DH, we can see clearly that this is what Lupin does. In POA, he leaves his teaching job. It also puts everything that happened in HBP in perspective.

It now seems clear to me that after Tonks was injured in OOTP, she started talking about getting married, with Lupin. Lupin freaked out, and much like he went to Harry in DH and offered his services, he went to Dumbledore and offered his services. Dumbledore not being the kind, sweet figure a lot of people thought he was, saw the opportunity for a spy and overlooked the fact that Lupin was obviously running away. It also fits in with the fact that Tonks would not look at Dumbledore at the beginning of HBP, she was probably furious with him.

The pregnancy was obviously a mistake and given the time line, I figure she was probably pregnant when they got married, but they were both unaware of the fact.


__________________
'Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice.' Anon

'Why is every critical moment in fate or the adult or child so clearly coloured by emotion?í Vygotsky

Last edited by sweets7; July 24th, 2007 at 9:41 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old July 24th, 2007, 10:01 pm
Credo Buffa's Avatar
Credo Buffa  Female.gif Credo Buffa is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5215 days
Location: Minnesota
Age: 35
Posts: 1,092
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweets7 View Post
The pregnancy was obviously a mistake and given the time line, I figure she was probably pregnant when they got married, but they were both unaware of the fact.
My best guess as to the timeline of the Remus/Tonks relationship:

For the timeline to work, they probably had to have been together at least by the end of OoTP. I think Tonks's behavior in HBP, then, would not be a reaction to Lupin not wanting a relationship with her, but not wanting to get married after a relationship they'd already had, possibly deciding that they should break up so that it doesn't happen. Looking back on the scene in the hospital wing at the end of HBP, we see that Tonks says of Fleur and Bill, "She still wants to marry him, even though he's been bitten! She doesn't care!" (p. 582, UK edition). I'd always thought the word "marry" was a bit jarring there, rather than something a bit more innocuous like "be with" or the like. Now that we know they got married not long after that, it seems unlikely that they wouldn't have had some kind of serious relationship prior to HBP which might have resulted in the discussion of marriage. That being said, if they got married in late June or early July (which they most likely had to given the fact that this information is known at a meeting discussing Harry's departure from Privet Drive in late July), it's entirely possible for her to have become pregnant very soon after their marriage and still have it fit the timeline if Teddy was born sometime around April (and we know that it's at least March when Harry, Ron, and Hermione are captured, and they did spend several weeks with Bill and Fleur, so it's likely that Teddy has an April birthday).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweets7 View Post
I don't think Lupin ever really left tonks. Left for a few days; saw Harry; Harry knocked some sense into him and he went back.
I do think he probably lived away from her for some time. Ron does say after he returns to Harry and Hermione that Tonks and Lupin are living together again (or whatever the direct quotation is), but I have no reason to believe that it wasn't something that they'd devised together as a smart course of action anyway. Although it is also possible that they might have argued over Lupin's decision to leave (if she ever found out about it, because I think its clear that he made that choice independent of her) or over something related and needed to spend a little time apart. It happens.


__________________

Last edited by Credo Buffa; July 24th, 2007 at 10:12 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old July 24th, 2007, 10:12 pm
sweets7's Avatar
sweets7  Female.gif sweets7 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4681 days
Posts: 724
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Yeah I figure they had a serious relationship in OOTP, serious enough for marriage to be on the cards. I figured Teddy was born in March, April fits too though.

In OOTP, Harry said that Lupin was absent a lot (on business for the order). In retrospect, he was probably with Tonks a fair bit as well.

I do think that he went back to Tonks fairly quickly. All Ron said is that Bill told him that Lupin was back living with Tonks. He probably went AWOL for a few weeks and then went back. Tonks knew what he was like, she had to expect that he would freak out.

Edit: Just did the maths, Teddy had to be born in late March or early April, at the latest, because at Harry's birthday they obviously know shes pregnant, and given that she was probably pregnant about a month before they found out, that puts the timeline around late June.


__________________
'Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice.' Anon

'Why is every critical moment in fate or the adult or child so clearly coloured by emotion?í Vygotsky

Last edited by sweets7; July 24th, 2007 at 10:21 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old July 24th, 2007, 10:15 pm
urquhartfay  Female.gif urquhartfay is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5197 days
Location: marital bliss!
Age: 42
Posts: 557
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

sweets7 and katyscarlett - just for your info, my midwife-friend tells me it is awfully easy to get pregnant, even when taking all the usual precautions. knowing remus, i suspect that he and tonks were consciously trying not to get pregnant, partly because of remus' reservations, and partly because during a war is not the most convenient time to have children. i think it was very much unintentional.

credo - (greetings from scotland!) i like your analysis of his character development, almost as if he is only going through a part of adolescence now. it makes me wonder even more what his (emotional) life was like between james' death and poa - was there any chance of emotional maturing then?

i think something must have happened just before this scene to make him panic particularly badly. he seems to have known she was pregnant from harry's birthday (when he looks "rather unhappy" p. 101 UK). his visit to gp12 is about 4 days later. perhaps he was too busy getting his wife to safety from voldemort, and then once she was safe with her parents he freaked...

which reminds me, her father was on the run and eventually killed, was she not in a lot of danger during that time?

anyway, i can only imagine that it was a moment of panic when remus ran off to join harry and co. i can picture andromeda and tonks starting to go on about baby-names and cots and strollers and suddenly it all hit remus like a ton of bricks - this is real! (my husband certainly used to get slightly panicky when children came up, and he's not contagious...) and then he freaked out, told tonks he was going to go check on harry, and convinced himself that harry's was the greater need and that he was being self-sacrificing and loving.

i disagree with harry's accusation that he wanted to be "a daredevil...stepping into sirius' shoes." (p. 176 UK) i don't think that is ever the adult remus' character - i think harry is being angry and irrational. after all, just after calling him a "daredevil" he calls him a "coward." (this is not a discrepancy on jk's part - we humans commonly get self-contradictory when angry).

i was really shocked by this scene, i never expected remus' insecurity to stretch to such behaviour, i thought he was more rational than that. but, well, there was a lot going on in his life.

the death: i was disappointed that this wasn't described. it was very by the by. i can definitely imagine that he was defending tonks, but that sort of thing would have fit gloriously into the books' themes, so why not include it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
I do think he probably lived away from her for some time. Ron does say after he returns to Harry and Hermione that Tonks and Lupin are living together again (or whatever the direct quotation is), but I have no reason to believe that it wasn't something that they'd devised together as a smart course of action anyway. Although it is also possible that they might have argued over Lupin's decision to leave (if she ever found out about it, because I think its clear that he made that choice independent of her) or over something related and needed to spend a little time apart. It happens.
i think the seperation must have been after the argument with harry, because he saw harry only 4 days after bill and fleur's wedding, and i'm sure he made sure tonks was safe after the death eater attack - he's not that careless.

p.s. i wonder if part of the reason he freaked out at this time was beacause of the time of month...? (we all understand...)


__________________
proud member of...w.o.l.f., the cod squad, the squishy hugs for lupin society and the a.s.a.!
...and firm believer in the medecinal properties of chocolate
...and in sacrificing the evil rodent under a barrage of frozen moose turd!!!
THERE WILL BE NO DEATH BY POKING.


my fanfiction and feedback and online journal

Last edited by urquhartfay; July 24th, 2007 at 10:22 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old July 24th, 2007, 10:54 pm
Credo Buffa's Avatar
Credo Buffa  Female.gif Credo Buffa is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 5215 days
Location: Minnesota
Age: 35
Posts: 1,092
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Good to see you, urqu! I figured some of the old crew might come around for a little discussion and collective mourning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquhartfay View Post
it makes me wonder even more what his (emotional) life was like between james' death and poa - was there any chance of emotional maturing then?
My thoughts exactly. It seems unlikely that he fostered any close relationships during that time. Apart from the emotional strain of losing his best friends, I imagine he was more concerned with just trying to live than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquhartfay
which reminds me, her father was on the run and eventually killed, was she not in a lot of danger during that time?
I got the impression that the Ministry was going after Muggle-borns first, and would only later go for half-blooded wizards. Even though Tonks's mother was a blood traitor, she was still descended from a respected pureblood line, which I imagine provided Tonks with at least temporary protection. I would imagine that the greater danger to her would be her pregnancy; if there's one thing that the Ministry might find more "undesirable" than being Muggle-born it would probably be knowing that a werewolf was actively breeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquhartfay
i disagree with harry's accusation that he wanted to be "a daredevil...stepping into sirius' shoes." (p. 176 UK) i don't think that is ever the adult remus' character - i think harry is being angry and irrational. after all, just after calling him a "daredevil" he calls him a "coward." (this is not a discrepancy on jk's part - we humans commonly get self-contradictory when angry).
I agree. I definitely don't see anything in Remus's character to suggest that he was in any way trying to emulate Sirius. But I think that Harry calling him a "coward" was a harsh but more accurate accusation. He has, as I've explained above, always had a tendency to choose to walk away from situations rather than suffer the potential emotional consequences, but in the past that has always led us to seeing him as quietly managing his difficult life and insecurity rather than choosing to lash out and become angry. Of course, in a situation like this, his normal "solution" made him look like a bum. But it probably all goes back to that issue of emotional growth. Remus needed to be in a particularly close relationship for that wake-up call to happen, and if he hadn't had one since his Marauder days, then he would have built up this pattern that could only be broken by realizing that there are some predicaments from which you can't quietly walk away, and some things for which you have to consider that the benefits might outweigh the consequnces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquharfay
the death: i was disappointed that this wasn't described. it was very by the by. i can definitely imagine that he was defending tonks, but that sort of thing would have fit gloriously into the books' themes, so why not include it?
Someone somewhere on the forum here made an interesting point that by sheilding us from the exact circumstances of his death, his "hero" quality is preserved, because we never actually see him fail. I for one think that it is meant to shock us, seeing both Lupin and Tonks dead beside each other. I see their deaths as being particularly indicative of the senseless tragedy of war, especially knowing that they are leaving behind an baby who will never know his parents, and there's nothing more tragic than simply finding them dead, never knowing what really happened to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquhartfay View Post
i think the seperation must have been after the argument with harry, because he saw harry only 4 days after bill and fleur's wedding, and i'm sure he made sure tonks was safe after the death eater attack - he's not that careless.
Oh, I completely agree. I think that the arrangement that Lupin is describing to Harry in which Tonks would stay with her parents is probably already in effect during that scene, but for her own protection, not because Remus was necessarily planning on leaving her. If anything, that arrangement probably only helped Remus convince himself that his choice was a good one.


__________________

Last edited by Credo Buffa; July 24th, 2007 at 10:59 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:03 pm
gillikitty2000  Female.gif gillikitty2000 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4190 days
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

1. Your general thoughts on Lupin as a character? How has he grown, changed and matured throughout the books? What are his strengths and weaknesses? What do we know about his relationships to Sirius Black/Fenrir Greyback/Alastor Moody/James Potter/Lily Evans/Peter Pettigrew/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?
I just think that Lupin is an amazing character from the beginning. I was a little surprised that he was willing to run out on "Dora" and little Teddy but other then that i was very impressed on how he handled his condition.

2. Lupin is conflicted between his love for Dora and Teddy and the desire to protect them from association with him - does he make the right decision in going back to them? Did he make the right decision marrying her?
I think he made the right decision in both. He loved her so he should marry her and i love how he was trying to pretect them by furthering himself but isn't it better that he was there to care for them?

3. Why didnít Lupin try to contact Harry before PoA?
Most likely because 1.) Harry would have no idea who he was and 2.) Harry might not have trusted him as much because he disn't know he was nice.

4. What was Lupinís role in the first war? Did Dumbledore use his special connexions to the werewolves already?
I think he might have been connected with the werewolfs again but it doesnt really tell us does it so all we can do is guess that that is what he was doing for Dumbledore.

5. Did Lupin make the right decision in going to fight at Hogwarts - should he have stayed out of the battle for Teddy's sake?
I don't think he could have lived with himself if he had stayed out and Tonks was in it too wasn't she? This was his responsibility for the Order and i think that Teddy is very proud of his father who died to protect him.


__________________
Check Out my Post Deathly Hallows Fanfic: Time for a Normal Life, Love, and Peace of Mind and give me Feedback
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:09 pm
sweets7's Avatar
sweets7  Female.gif sweets7 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4681 days
Posts: 724
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
My thoughts exactly. It seems unlikely that he fostered any close relationships during that time. Apart from the emotional strain of losing his best friends, I imagine he was more concerned with just trying to live than anything else.
I agree I think since he lost his friends he never had any close relationships. The relationship with Tonks was probably difficult for him and very intense from his point of view. He was used to not caring for anyone (since the marauders died) so to suddenly be in love and have that person be in terrible danger probably blow his mind a bit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Credo Buffa View Post
Someone somewhere on the forum here made an interesting point that by sheilding us from the exact circumstances of his death, his "hero" quality is preserved, because we never actually see him fail. I for one think that it is meant to shock us, seeing both Lupin and Tonks dead beside each other. I see their deaths as being particularly indicative of the senseless tragedy of war, especially knowing that they are leaving behind an baby who will never know his parents, and there's nothing more tragic than simply finding them dead, never knowing what really happened to them.
I agree, it shows the senselessness of war. It happens; people just appear in a line, dead; terribly heart breaking. I swear I cried so much in this book, but I think it was very well done. All of the deaths I think were written perfectly.

The books began with Harry, an orphan of war and then we are introduced to Neville a virtual orphan of war as well. At the end we have another orphan, but one that is obviously very: loved, secure, cool, and confident of himself and also the trio and Ginny’s children. All happy, beautiful people completely free from the tragedies, their parents generations had to face.


__________________
'Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice.' Anon

'Why is every critical moment in fate or the adult or child so clearly coloured by emotion?í Vygotsky
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:27 pm
katyscarlett  Female.gif katyscarlett is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4912 days
Location: Liverpool, UK
Age: 41
Posts: 155
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by urquhartfay View Post
sweets7 and katyscarlett - just for your info, my midwife-friend tells me it is awfully easy to get pregnant, even when taking all the usual precautions. knowing remus, i suspect that he and tonks were consciously trying not to get pregnant, partly because of remus' reservations, and partly because during a war is not the most convenient time to have children. i think it was very much unintentional.
Oh I didn't mean that I thought that the pregnancy was intentional, very much the opposite. In fact I have this whole little scenario worked out in my head that Teddy was conceived after the night of the seven potters, relief that they both made it through making them a little less careful than usual. Tonks is described as looking radiant at Harry's birthday party which immediately made me think she was pregnant. This would just about fit in the timeline I think.

What I was trying to say in my post was that if they'd had more time together as a married couple before the pregnancy and he'd had time to relax into the role of husband then maybe he wouldn't have freaked so much over the idea of becoming a father. Because in a matter of weeks he'd gone from being in the werewolf pack and alone, to Tonks confronting him in front of everyone, then being in a relationship (again) to getting married and then expecting a baby! I think it would make even the most level-headed person spin a little.


__________________
I'm sorry katyscarlett's not available at the moment, she's riding through time and space with The Doctor
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old July 24th, 2007, 11:39 pm
sweets7's Avatar
sweets7  Female.gif sweets7 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4681 days
Posts: 724
Re: Remus John Lupin: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by katyscarlett View Post
Oh I didn't mean that I thought that the pregnancy was intentional, very much the opposite. In fact I have this whole little scenario worked out in my head that Teddy was conceived after the night of the seven potters, relief that they both made it through making them a little less careful than usual. Tonks is described as looking radiant at Harry's birthday party which immediately made me think she was pregnant. This would just about fit in the timeline I think.
Couldn't have been, she must have been pregnant by then, for the maths to work, but she probably didn't know it. Harry's birthday is five days later and Remus is looking miserable, so they must just have found out.


__________________
'Destiny is not a matter of chance it is a matter of choice.' Anon

'Why is every critical moment in fate or the adult or child so clearly coloured by emotion?í Vygotsky
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, remus lupin, the marauders


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:41 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.