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Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis



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  #61  
Old November 5th, 2007, 10:21 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
I think so, too, up to a point. When Harry was at Malfoy Manner, Lucius seemed altogether too ready to regain his standing with Voldemort by being the one to turn Harry in. Seeing the wretched state Lucius was in during the Battle of Hogwarts, that "punishment" might have broken him completely. The change in Narcissa was more obvious than in Lucius. She and Draco did indeed collude with Harry; Lucius did not.
I noticed an effect or form that that "punishment" might have been in after Harry escaped Malfoy Manor and Voldemort put the Malfoys and Bella under house arrest, and certainly used the cruciatus on them....But Voldemort from the following quote, apparently inflicted something else onto Lucius:

It says exactly on page 641 of the U.S. version of Deathly Hallows:

"There was Lucius Malfoy sitting in the darkest corner, ragged and still bearing the marks of the punishment he had received after the boy's last escape. One of his eyes remained closed and puffy."

I think from this we can be almost sure Voldemort did this to Lucius. I find this very strange, because we never see any evidence of Voldemort punishing someone through anything other than the cruciatus curse. It is always the cruciatus and maybe mind torture through legilimency and the Imperius.....

Why...was one eye closed and puffy??? I can't imagine the Dark Lord raising his fist to Lucius? It simply is not how Voldemort takes out his aggression...I'm sure it was Voldemort's wand that did it....

Anyone got anything to say on this????


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  #62  
Old November 5th, 2007, 10:44 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

I would think that using the Imperius on someone, you can make them do anything - like hitting their own head against a wall etc. Or torment Draco by forcing him to curse his own father - and since Draco clearly got his difficulties with stuff like the Cruciatus, he'd have to resort to more 'basic' spells, the equivalent to a muggle brawl so to speak.

Ultimately, I think JKR wanted to show us that Lucius is broken in that scene, and as you say, the Cruciatus leaves no traces, she had to go for something less subtle - i.e. a swollen eye - to show us 'Look what Lucius Malfoy has come to - that's what you get for messing with the wrong sort of people'


EDIT: Just now and slightly out of the blue, I had a major epiphany. Well, I like to think so, anyway.

Remember Severus' startled movement at the end of GoF when Harry tells Fudge he's seen Lucius in the graveyard at Voldemort's resurrection ceremony? Isn't it possible that, knowing Voldemort would return one day, Severus had laid his plans to butter Lucius up and have him as his main 'source' on the Death Eaters (beside his own knowledge) - and that he thought in the Infirmary scene that Harry was just destroying his work of years (of sucking up to Draco) to have a senior Death Eater in the palm of his hand, if Fudge believed the boy and sent Lucius straight to Azkaban?


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Old November 6th, 2007, 12:15 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I thought Lucius was leave Draco in the castle and not bother to try and get him out. For that, I think old, slippery Lucius is alright. Still should go to Azkaban, but at least he loves his son, which I think that he has, due to pompus-big-man-itus, he hadn't thought to do until Draco was put in the thick of it.


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Old November 6th, 2007, 12:30 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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"There was Lucius Malfoy sitting in the darkest corner, ragged and still bearing the marks of the punishment he had received after the boy's last escape. One of his eyes remained closed and puffy."

I think from this we can be almost sure Voldemort did this to Lucius. I find this very strange, because we never see any evidence of Voldemort punishing someone through anything other than the cruciatus curse. It is always the cruciatus and maybe mind torture through legilimency and the Imperius.....

Why...was one eye closed and puffy??? I can't imagine the Dark Lord raising his fist to Lucius? It simply is not how Voldemort takes out his aggression...I'm sure it was Voldemort's wand that did it....
It's possible Voldemort wasn't the one or the only one to punish Lucius for "letting" the Trio escape. We see in chapter 9, with Draco being forced to torture Rowle, that Voldie has the Death Eaters torture each other for their screw ups. Now, it could be that was a special case for just Draco since he clearly wasn't comfortable with the "torture and killing" part of being a DE but it could also be something all DE's do. It would make sense, to prevent any of them from banding together and keep Voldie as the only one who can "help" them, if he has them turn against each other by having them punish one another for wrongdoings and snitch on each other to curry favor with him.


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Old November 6th, 2007, 7:57 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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It's possible Voldemort wasn't the one or the only one to punish Lucius for "letting" the Trio escape. We see in chapter 9, with Draco being forced to torture Rowle, that Voldie has the Death Eaters torture each other for their screw ups. Now, it could be that was a special case for just Draco since he clearly wasn't comfortable with the "torture and killing" part of being a DE but it could also be something all DE's do. It would make sense, to prevent any of them from banding together and keep Voldie as the only one who can "help" them, if he has them turn against each other by having them punish one another for wrongdoings and snitch on each other to curry favor with him.
That is a good point. Lucius could have very well have had to withstand torture from another of the minions. Lucius had likely been made to do the same himself. However, I feel that near the end of DH, Lucius was in tune with his family's belief that the Dark Lord was insane and they wanted nothing more to do with him. However, fleeing and/or resistance was futile - Voldemort would have sought them out anywhere in the world and killed them if they'd tried to make a run for it.


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Old November 6th, 2007, 8:54 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by birdie
It's possible Voldemort wasn't the one or the only one to punish Lucius for "letting" the Trio escape. We see in chapter 9, with Draco being forced to torture Rowle, that Voldie has the Death Eaters torture each other for their screw ups. Now, it could be that was a special case for just Draco since he clearly wasn't comfortable with the "torture and killing" part of being a DE but it could also be something all DE's do. It would make sense, to prevent any of them from banding together and keep Voldie as the only one who can "help" them, if he has them turn against each other by having them punish one another for wrongdoings and snitch on each other to curry favor with him.
That is a good point. Lucius could have very well have had to withstand torture from another of the minions. Lucius had likely been made to do the same himself. However, I feel that near the end of DH, Lucius was in tune with his family's belief that the Dark Lord was insane and they wanted nothing more to do with him. However, fleeing and/or resistance was futile - Voldemort would have sought them out anywhere in the world and killed them if they'd tried to make a run for it.
Excellent points both of you. It reminds me of what LV said to Snape that Lucius was trying to allow him to go and get his son, while pretending to get Harry so as he isn't accidentally killed by someone else.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 3:04 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Excellent points both of you. It reminds me of what LV said to Snape that Lucius was trying to allow him to go and get his son, while pretending to get Harry so as he isn't accidentally killed by someone else.
That brings up another good point. What was it about Lucius' character or worth that made Voldemort spare him in the end? It was quite evident that Lucius was not the loyal servant he had once been.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 3:13 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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That brings up another good point. What was it about Lucius' character or worth that made Voldemort spare him in the end? It was quite evident that Lucius was not the loyal servant he had once been.
Money was probably tops. The other reason is that beating up on the Malfoys was a constant "better watch out" message to the other death eaters.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 3:19 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

1. Is Lucius loyal to Voldemort or rather himself and his family? I think at the start he might have thought they were the same thing. By the time though DH rolls around we see that Lucius has definitely had a change of heart in terms of where his priorities lie.

2. What did he know about Riddle’s diary? I really don't think that Lucius knew that it was a horcrux. I'm not quite sure what he realised what he was doing other than possibly giving the Weasley's a hard time I don't believe he would have knowingly passed up a piece of Voldemort's soul.

3. Fathers play an important role in the books. Is Lucius a good father?I don't think so. To be all traditionalist I think that he put his family in unnecessary danger by not thinking through his actions. We also see him at the Quidditch world cup putting what could be called unrealistic expectations on his son's shoulders implying that he should be better than everyone else because he's a pureblood. While a human tendency to pass such narrow minded teachings to the next generation does no one any good.

4. What is/was his relationship to Bellatrix Lestrange/Arthur Weasley/his son Draco/Albus Dumbledore/Narcissa Malfoy/other Death Eaters/Severus Snape/Harry Potter?I think that Lucius and Bella had a thorny relationship to say the least. She is a difficult woman, both his sister in law and acknowledged "favourite" of Voldemort and she knew it. I'd include Dumbledore in this as well actually. Dumbledore was all for tolerance and change ~ what ever he believed in his early life and tried to show this by being as inclusive as possible.

I believe with the Weasley family he did genuinely look down on them, out of snobbery most of all. I don't think he liked the idea of wizards getting on well with non wizards or marrying outside their own kind. The fact that the Weasley's were adaptable I think annoyed him more than anything else.....and maybe threatened him. Who knows.

As for the marriage of the Malfoy's I'm not sure what to think of it, other than seeing tha t Narcissa was moved enough and distraught enough to go make an unbreakable vow with Snape....it's hard to know, we only see the Malfoy's together as a unit really twice...once at the Quidditch world cup and again in DH. I don't think we can get an accurate view of them.

5. Did he do everything in his power to retrieve the prophecy in OotP? Yes I think that he did.

6. Why does Lucius continue to serve Voldemort despite his ill treatment of him in DH? Do you think his loyalty was wavering?
I don't think at that point he had any choice in the matter. It wouldn't be easy to kick Voldemort or his followers out of his house...and where was he going to turn to? Snape? The ministry under Voldemort's control? The order? Dumbledore was someone he may have gone to but with Dumbledore's death that went out the window.

7. How do you think Lucius reacted to Voldemort's defeat? What do you think happened to him afterwards?
I'm not sure what happened to him but I like to think he went to live a quiet life and was filled with a sense of relief given the fact that he was spared.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 3:37 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Money was probably tops. The other reason is that beating up on the Malfoys was a constant "better watch out" message to the other death eaters.
Yes, but that message would have come across, too, with killing Lucius and keeping Draco for 'warnings'. I still cannot wrap my mind around this - why on earth did Lucius survive? And without a wand - where's the use in keeping him? Lucius was a mighty Death Eater once, and turned out a disappointment - a) Voldemort isn't known for taking disappointment kindly, and b) I wouldn't want Lucius becoming my enemy, if I could just as well get rid of him straight away. What use was there to keep him?


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Old November 7th, 2007, 8:52 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Yes, but that message would have come across, too, with killing Lucius and keeping Draco for 'warnings'. I still cannot wrap my mind around this - why on earth did Lucius survive? And without a wand - where's the use in keeping him? Lucius was a mighty Death Eater once, and turned out a disappointment - a) Voldemort isn't known for taking disappointment kindly, and b) I wouldn't want Lucius becoming my enemy, if I could just as well get rid of him straight away. What use was there to keep him?
I was thinking that it could have been that Voldemort really did believe that Lucius would serve as a good minion after the war. Lucius sought power and his scruples were not the highest. He was also a pureblood (and the number of purebloods was decreasing steadily). He had also been very loyal as long as he and his family were not threatened. It could be that Voldemort was simply making Lucius pay, but planned for him to regain his standing later and once again be one of those to rule directly beneath Voldemort at his bidding. There simply was not that big of an inner circle at that point and it is unlikely Voldemort would welcome people like Kingsley immediately into his fold once he was in power. He would still require a faithful group of servants.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 9:29 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I was thinking that it could have been that Voldemort really did believe that Lucius would serve as a good minion after the war. Lucius sought power and his scruples were not the highest. He was also a pureblood (and the number of purebloods was decreasing steadily). He had also been very loyal as long as he and his family were not threatened. It could be that Voldemort was simply making Lucius pay, but planned for him to regain his standing later and once again be one of those to rule directly beneath Voldemort at his bidding. There simply was not that big of an inner circle at that point and it is unlikely Voldemort would welcome people like Kingsley immediately into his fold once he was in power. He would still require a faithful group of servants.
That's a good point, wick, but - as useful as Lucius might have appeared to Voldemort in peace-time; he was still a skilled Dark wizard and the war not won quite yet (still having the Resistance movement represented by Potter Watch, and Harry himself out there). Lucius with a wand could have been so useful - and Voldemort had already impressed the point on him 'Do something for me to regain my favour!' as we see in his eagerness in the 'Malfoy Manor' chapter. Just as eager he would have been in hunting down the Resistance, for example, if only he had had a wand (and hey - they had a wandmaker in the basement, it's not as if it had been impossible to get Lucius a new wand), and having Narcissa and Draco as a lever would have kept Lucius bridled not to go astray, too. Still, Voldemort didn't choose that way (which was stupid, IMO), which leads me to believe that he (Voldemort) had lost all interest in him altogether, which normally meant that the minion should have been disposed of. See what I mean?


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Old November 7th, 2007, 9:48 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Still, Voldemort didn't choose that way (which was stupid, IMO), which leads me to believe that he (Voldemort) had lost all interest in him altogether, which normally meant that the minion should have been disposed of. See what I mean?
I think so too, but I think Voldemort was getting pleasure out of watching the Malfoys suffer. He taunted them so and enjoyed watching them squirm. Another point of this is we know that Lucius was worried about his son still being in the castle after the first wave of the battle. I think Voldemort would have picked up on this as well and I think he enjoyed it. He didn't keep Lucius alive because he needed him, he kept him alive to torture him emotionally and socially (IMO). Lucius was a scapegoat for Voldy's anger. It is amazing Lucius didn't loose his mind.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 9:58 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I think so too, but I think Voldemort was getting pleasure out of watching the Malfoys suffer. He taunted them so and enjoyed watching them squirm. Another point of this is we know that Lucius was worried about his son still being in the castle after the first wave of the battle. I think Voldemort would have picked up on this as well and I think he enjoyed it. He didn't keep Lucius alive because he needed him, he kept him alive to torture him emotionally and socially (IMO). Lucius was a scapegoat for Voldy's anger. It is amazing Lucius didn't loose his mind.
Indeed, that does sound much like old Voldikins. And if you ask me - Lucius did lose his mind, if not nearly on the scale of the Longbottoms, I cannot imagine that he was indeed a 'changed man' after the war, not for being eaten-up by remorse or guilt, but by being eaten-up with fear and helplessness. Imagine - the man who loathes muggles so much - without his wand, he is but a muggle himself, but without the knowledge that makes life easy for the real muggles (like: how do I brew myself a cup of tea etc). And the fear for his son would have caused any father lasting nightmares.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:35 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

Good points. But couldn't Lucius have used Narcissa or Draco's wand - at least for somethings? It would not work well, but it would work. But I agree that Voldy wanting to watch Lucius suffer is a likely reason for him keeping Lucius alive. I also agree Lucius was likely a very changed man after the fact; it was really a harrowing experience for him from the moment he left Azkaban till Voldemort was vanquished.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:10 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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Good points. But couldn't Lucius have used Narcissa or Draco's wand - at least for somethings? It would not work well, but it would work. But I agree that Voldy wanting to watch Lucius suffer is a likely reason for him keeping Lucius alive. I also agree Lucius was likely a very changed man after the fact; it was really a harrowing experience for him from the moment he left Azkaban till Voldemort was vanquished.
I think we shouldn't underestimate his time in Azkaban, too. If you put yourself in his shoes in that situation - you're stuck in prison, you know Voldemort's disposition, and then you get to hear that your son is sent on a suicide mission, and there is absolutely nothing you could do about it, for your child, to help him, and basically you're waiting just every day to get the message that your son has been killed, because it can be only a matter of time for the kid to fail. I think this was Voldemort's most cruel punishment for Lucius.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:36 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I think we shouldn't underestimate his time in Azkaban, too. If you put yourself in his shoes in that situation - you're stuck in prison, you know Voldemort's disposition, and then you get to hear that your son is sent on a suicide mission, and there is absolutely nothing you could do about it, for your child, to help him, and basically you're waiting just every day to get the message that your son has been killed, because it can be only a matter of time for the kid to fail. I think this was Voldemort's most cruel punishment for Lucius.
That is a good point. I hadn't considered what it must have been like in Azkaban. I wonder if Narcissa was allowed to visit. If so, maybe she told him about the unbreakable vow she'd made. At least Lucius would know that there was some hope. Another question is, what if Voldemort had killed Draco - do you think Lucius would have attempted to kill Voldemort when he was released? I think he would have. He would have failed, but I think he would have tried anyway. I don't think Lucius would have remained a Death Eater if that had happened - although I bet Voldemort would have expected him to.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:42 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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That is a good point. I hadn't considered what it must have been like in Azkaban. I wonder if Narcissa was allowed to visit. If so, maybe she told him about the unbreakable vow she'd made. At least Lucius would know that there was some hope. Another question is, what if Voldemort had killed Draco - do you think Lucius would have attempted to kill Voldemort when he was released? I think he would have. He would have failed, but I think he would have tried anyway. I don't think Lucius would have remained a Death Eater if that had happened - although I bet Voldemort would have expected him to.
Totally. Of course Voldemort would have thought that, judging that he didn't find it the least bit fishy that Severus first asked for Lily's life, and then returned, apparently unperturbed and possibly shrugging 'oh well, you know, if not her, then another, I really don't mind'. So murdering Lucius' only child, Voldemort might have assumed that Lucius would just shrug, too, and return to business.

I don't think, however, that Lucius would have set out to straight try and kill Voldemort. Rash action isn't a Slytherin's nature, and Lucius was always the epitome of his house to me. He'd rather show Voldemort 'his respectable face' (to twist that phrase from GoF a little here) and have contacted Kingsley or else to try undermining Voldemort from within, delivering him on a silver plate so to say, to get his revenge.


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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:59 pm
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

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I think we shouldn't underestimate his time in Azkaban, too. If you put yourself in his shoes in that situation - you're stuck in prison, you know Voldemort's disposition, and then you get to hear that your son is sent on a suicide mission, and there is absolutely nothing you could do about it, for your child, to help him, and basically you're waiting just every day to get the message that your son has been killed, because it can be only a matter of time for the kid to fail. I think this was Voldemort's most cruel punishment for Lucius.
I agree too. I have to admit before DH, I really didn't think Lucius was very loving of his son. I thought that he would be disappointed and ashamed of his son for not completing the task. Lucius just never really struck me as a very caring father prior to DH. I just pictured Narcissa as the caring parent and Lucius the sort of father that just wanted to create a mini me per say. But, I think DH definitely proved me wrong on the way I perceived him. He did love his son and was just as scared as Narcissa about his safety. This impressed me and despite all the things he did in the past I couldn't help but pity him. I pity him even more now that we are discussing his state of mind as his family was going through all that torture from Voldy.

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So murdering Lucius' only child, Voldemort might have assumed that Lucius would just shrug, too, and return to business.
That is exactly what I would have thought prior to DH, if Draco at some point had been killed. Since he was allowed to live, I really thought we would get the whole "You are no son of mine" speech from Lucius in DH. I thought he would be ashamed that his son had damaged the family name and let him down. Boy was I wrong!


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Old November 8th, 2007, 12:09 am
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Re: Lucius Malfoy: Character Analysis

He loved Draco, there's no doubt about that, but I still think he was a horrible father all things being considered. How many "Father of the Year" candidates would come from the death eater ranks?


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