Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old August 1st, 2007, 5:26 am
Ms_LunaLoveGood  Female.gif Ms_LunaLoveGood is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4326 days
Location: Macon, GA
Posts: 14
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Umbridge was definetly evil but she is the type that can just as dangerous or even more so than Voldemort. Unlike Voldemort Umbridge had the ability to fit in and slowly infect a group. Voldemort has no people skills and leads with fear was always able to get a group to follow her or work with her.

She was still employed by the ministry because she followed the laws if not the spirit of them. I think her loyalty was to her position and that she would do whatever it took to keep it.

I think Umbridge was under the power of the locket but not like the trio was. The locket knew how best to go after a person and break down their defenses(as we saw with Ron). Umbridge already held the same values as the locket so it just gave her more confidence to do the evil things but the real blame still falls on Umbridge not the locket. There is no justifaction for her actions other than she was evil.


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old August 1st, 2007, 7:48 am
mick  Undisclosed.gif mick is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4073 days
Posts: 86
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

i think she's plenty evil. and the thing that makes it even worse is that she's very self-righteous. even moreso, i think, than voldemort. she's not even an ambiguous do-gooder like javert from les miz, it's not just about upholding the rules and refusing to bend. she's sadistic, and she's the type that'll smile at you while you're being tortured. she's my least favorite character, actually, the only villain that ever made me want to put the book (ootp) down and take a break.


Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old August 13th, 2007, 3:58 am
purplehawk's Avatar
purplehawk  Female.gif purplehawk is offline
Renegade
 
Joined: 5534 days
Location: Buckeye Country
Age: 69
Posts: 28,593
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

What do you all suppose happened to Umbridge? We lost her after Harry's stunning spell. I don't recall even a mention of her again.


__________________



"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."

~ President Bill Clinton ~
August 28, 2013
50th Anniversary of "I Have a Dream"


All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of any political or government body.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old August 25th, 2007, 5:11 pm
NoNEWTS  Male.gif NoNEWTS is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4808 days
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 369
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Is the analysis only these four questions? Personally I believe she was clearly capable of murder after sending dementors against Harry (and getting away with it) as well as threatening him with the Cruciatus Curse.

Personally, I believe she could have been the one to kill Madam Bones. Dumbledore expected Bones to launch an inquiry, which I doubt she would have done until after Voldemort revealed himself. Then Umbridge was in danger of being exposed. So she had motive. Bones fought but I think her death was described either as vicious or as being torn apart. Clearly Voldemort with the Killing Curse wouldn't have done it like that. But an angry Umbridge of questionable ability with a wand might have done.


__________________
The sign of a good story is that you want to know what happens next.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old August 28th, 2007, 7:12 am
mariebeth83's Avatar
mariebeth83  Female.gif mariebeth83 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4040 days
Location: The place where I'm happiest..
Age: 34
Posts: 901
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

This is probably going to sound like a strange theory and it has to do with why Umbridge said the locket was a family heirloom. My theory is that Umbridge was Muggle-born. It would explain some of her more extreme actions - she was out to do whatever she could do in order to survive. I think this would make her even more evil because she went against people who were also muggleborn in order to prove that she wasn't muggleborn. It makes sense in a way because throughout history, when atrocities occur there have been people who have turned against their own people in order to survive, and I could really see Umbridge as one of these people.

So I don't think that her actions were in support of anyone but herself, in order to survive, which in a way makes her more despicable!

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

I think that Umbridge's reign at Hogwarts may have influenced more students to join DA if she hadn't been there. Although if she hadn't been there, there would have been no reason to create the DA and therefore a lot of the students may not have learnt some of the spells & charms that they did learn and they definitely wouldn't have become as proficient at them as they did under Harry's tutoring. Neville also may not have had the chance to become as close as he did to the trio, therefore he may not have become as confident and there wouldn't have been an underground movement in Hogwarts during DH and he almost certainly wouldn't have killed Nagini.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

As i said in my first answer, I believe that Umbridge was only ever looking out for herself, using survivalist tendencies to get above everyone else and keep herself safe.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

I thought she took it from Mundungus in Diagon Alley? I don't think she realised that it had such a significance, as I believe she was just using it to make herself look pureblood. I don't think that the locket had an impact on her either as she seemed to be genuinely evil, looking out for herself before anyone else and just generally being an evil person in the books! she also didn't seem to have the same range of emotion as the trio did and it seemed to me as though the horcrux fed on human emotion.


__________________

Because of Edward Cullen...I'm staying single until I find a vampire
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old August 31st, 2007, 1:17 am
Voldemorts8thHorcrux's Avatar
Voldemorts8thHorcrux  Female.gif Voldemorts8thHorcrux is offline
Secret Keeper
 
Joined: 4533 days
Location: just took over world,on throne
Age: 23
Posts: 5,710
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

Umbridge, to me, in a way is more evil than Voldemort, I really don't know why, she just feels more evil, and in a worse way. Umbridge didn't ever seem like a Death Eater, even though that didn't rule her out, but either way, she was as good as one. Her actions completely support Voldemort, well, at least to everyone it did. However, she is only really concerned with herself. She would rather be the evil Dark Lord, unlike someone like Bellatrix.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

Without Umbridge, there never would be a Dumbledore's Army, though it is possible there could be one in DH, to fight the Carrows. I don't find anything she did "favorable", just a sort of something to fight or run away from. the few good things I can say about Umbridge are that she sort of helped the DA along and that she got carried away by centaurs, lol.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

Umbridge is similar to the Malfoys, a sort of leader on both sides. she worked for the Ministry when Voldemort fell, and when he came back up again, she stayed with the Ministry while it was still up, but when it finally fell, she was able to stay and play a part of it, a more sinister part. Her loyalties shifted, she never was loyal to Fudge, only concerned in having a position of power.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

I don't think she knew what it was. I think the reason it didn't have the same impact on her was because she was already doing things the locket wanted her to do and nothing that would harm the locket. However, I do think the locket did enhance her evilness. The trio was looking to destroy the locket. The locket, for the time being did nothing, I think Riddle in it didn't sense any danger and doubted they would be able to harm it, and didn't feel like overexerting himself.


__________________


Official Member of the Jacq Triumvirate

My Deviantart Account

Voldemort Feels Pretty, My animated music video for "I feel Pretty" Featuring LORD VOLDEMORT!

My original story: Teeter Totter (Has absolutely nothing to do with playgrounds)


Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old August 31st, 2007, 3:47 am
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 4659 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,427
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

One good thing about Umbridge - she loved cats. That showed she had the capability to love within her character.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 11:25 am
Drusilla's Avatar
Drusilla  Female.gif Drusilla is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5558 days
Location: Caprica, before The Fall
Posts: 2,315
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

She wasn't just evil, she was sadistic to boot- she really got off on punishing people. If I had to draw the parallel, I'd say she was to the Ministry what Bellatrix was to Voldemort- only Bella was much more obvious.


Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old September 2nd, 2007, 8:43 pm
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 4850 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,036
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

ATTENTION PLEASE

I'd like to direct your attention to:

REVISED: Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray

Please read it carefully and post accordingly!


Before anyone asks, no, you did nothing wrong, I post this in as many threads as possible to make sure that everyone sees it.


Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old September 15th, 2007, 3:21 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5228 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?
Umbridge is certainly a nasty piece of work, but I don't think she was ever a Death Eater. She may have done things that were in line with a Death Eater's actions, so in that regard she may have been helping them, but I don't think she was ever one of them (ie I don't think she ever allied herself with Voldemort and got the Dark Mark etc). But that doesn't mean she isn't evil! I think she ranks pretty highly next to Voldemort - she certainly takes pleasure in watching others suffer.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?
Umbridge's tenure produced a sense of unity within Hogwarts among members of different Houses (minus Slytherin of course). It also created a sense of loyalty among the DA members and a sense of loyalty to the school as well as Dumbledore. In that regard, Umbridge actually helped our heroes, though that was the opposite of her intentions. I liked the fact that this bit of good came out of the evilness of Umbridge's office at Hogwarts.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?
This is an example of the corruption that existed within the Ministry. Perhaps it's possible that some of the DE's that were infiltrating the Ministry had something to do with the fact that Umbridge still held office there - even if she wasn't one of them she was certainly helping them and making their jobs easier. I'm sure Umbridge's loyalty is to whomever is able to give her the most power. She probably still has the same job title or something equivalent.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?
The locket was probably sold to her by Mungdungus. I don't think she ever realized what it really was - neither did Dung, he likely thought it was some kind of heirloom of Sirius's. I believe Rowling said that the locket had the opposite affect on her than it did on the trio because her soul was more in line with Voldemort's, while the trio's souls were completely against everything Voldemort stood for.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old September 15th, 2007, 3:54 am
Fawkesfan1's Avatar
Fawkesfan1  Female.gif Fawkesfan1 is offline
Clumsy Interrupting Cheese Toupe & Scrambled Eggs
 
Joined: 4785 days
Location: May spontaneously combust!
Posts: 7,600
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE? I think that she's as evil as Voldemort is -- only in a bureaucratic way. She's more covert in her evilness... i.e.: Trying to Crucio Harry, attack him with Dementors without the ministry knowing. Her kind of evil may not be quite on the same level as Voldemort's -- but it's very near it .

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"? I think that it helped them to mature somewhat and see that the world itself isn't just black and white, that there are shades of grey there, and that there are times when you have to stand up for what you believe in. Also, once she was exposed, it showed just how much a slimy weasel she truly was and that due to her anti-halfblood leanings, no one was truly safe while she was still working for the ministry.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job? Well you know how most bureauracies work... kiss enough people rears and you get to keep your job. That's at least how I saw it -- how she kept her job that is. She made ties with some of her new co-workers, i.e.: The D.E.'s, and they allowed her to keep her job. That and she's related to one, Selywn... he probably helped her be able to keep her job as well.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was? She probably was going through Diagon Alley and saw Mundungus and bought it from him, thinking that it was some old family heirloom. I don't think that she had a clue as to what the locket itself really was.


__________________

RIP Uncle Bob . 1933-2016 Thanks for everything and thanks for the memories. We love you and miss you.


RIP my older cat. I'll miss you, my wonderful furry friend. RIP Anthony Bourdain.

RIP Harry Anderson, aka: Judge Stone (Night Court). Thanks for the memories.

Sad about the upcoming closing of the forums, but I won't forget you guys, thanks for the memories!

Proud fan of the TV show, The X Files and proud shipper of Mulder and Scully!!

RIP Toys R' Us. Once a Toys R' Us Kid, always one.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old September 15th, 2007, 9:22 am
Wright1771  Undisclosed.gif Wright1771 is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4279 days
Posts: 784
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Jane was evil, yes but not the way LV was. With Umbridge, it was her position within the MoM. After the Dementor attack against Harry and Big D, she is capable of murder....if only giving orders of such. Was the locket effecting her in her daily duties....yes, but how much, one can't tell, as she was so far gone to begin with!


Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old September 15th, 2007, 6:47 pm
Hes's Avatar
Hes  Female.gif Hes is offline
Embroidered by imaginatio
 
Joined: 4990 days
Location: One second out of sync
Age: 37
Posts: 5,979
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I wonder how Umbridge would have been if she hadn't had that powerful position at the Ministry of Magic. Would she have been successful in anything else or was she too much of a bureaucrat to ever succeed anywhere else?


__________________


"I'm a leaf on the wind...watch how I soar."

"Chickens come home to roost."

"It's okay...I-I'm a leaf on the wind."


Loveliest Care Bear. Expert Sig Changer
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old September 15th, 2007, 8:33 pm
Fawkesfan1's Avatar
Fawkesfan1  Female.gif Fawkesfan1 is offline
Clumsy Interrupting Cheese Toupe & Scrambled Eggs
 
Joined: 4785 days
Location: May spontaneously combust!
Posts: 7,600
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I wonder how Umbridge would have been if she hadn't had that powerful position at the Ministry of Magic. Would she have been successful in anything else or was she too much of a bureaucrat to ever succeed anywhere else?
I don't think that she would have gotten as far as she had, in fact she seems to be like Slughorn in a way... sitting in the background and letting the person in charge do all of the hard work -- just basking in their own glory and "power". She was in a way, like you said, Hes -- too much of a bureaucrat to succeed anywhere else.


__________________

RIP Uncle Bob . 1933-2016 Thanks for everything and thanks for the memories. We love you and miss you.


RIP my older cat. I'll miss you, my wonderful furry friend. RIP Anthony Bourdain.

RIP Harry Anderson, aka: Judge Stone (Night Court). Thanks for the memories.

Sad about the upcoming closing of the forums, but I won't forget you guys, thanks for the memories!

Proud fan of the TV show, The X Files and proud shipper of Mulder and Scully!!

RIP Toys R' Us. Once a Toys R' Us Kid, always one.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old September 16th, 2007, 4:57 pm
purplehawk's Avatar
purplehawk  Female.gif purplehawk is offline
Renegade
 
Joined: 5534 days
Location: Buckeye Country
Age: 69
Posts: 28,593
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Umbridge was kind of like the classic example of what often goes wrong with government. The ultimate bureaucrat, the consummate insider, always consumed with maintaining and increasing her own power. That Muggle-Born registration business was appalling. Threatening a wizard with the dementor's kiss if he continued to proclaim his innocence? That was horrific, but typical for someone like Umbridge.


__________________



"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."

~ President Bill Clinton ~
August 28, 2013
50th Anniversary of "I Have a Dream"


All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of any political or government body.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old September 16th, 2007, 5:02 pm
Wab's Avatar
Wab  Undisclosed.gif Wab is offline
The Next Great Adventurer
 
Joined: 5434 days
Location: Mornington Crescent
Posts: 15,280
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

[quote=Fawkesfan1;4777787 too much of a bureaucrat to succeed anywhere else.[/QUOTE]

Umbridge was a poor bureaucrat.

Good bureaucrats loyalty lie with the ministry, not the minister or (as it was ultimately in her case) themselves.


__________________
A patriot is someone who wants the best for his country, including the best laws and the best ideals. It's something other people should call you -- you shouldn't call yourself that. People who call themselves patriots are usually liars. -- Donald Woods

You got what anybody gets . . . You got a lifetime. -- Death of the Endless
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old September 19th, 2007, 10:22 pm
purplehawk's Avatar
purplehawk  Female.gif purplehawk is offline
Renegade
 
Joined: 5534 days
Location: Buckeye Country
Age: 69
Posts: 28,593
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

We could argue that her loyalty was more to her own progression within the Ministry than any Minister, per se. Umbridge maintained herself very well through three regimes, including Voldemort's (with Thicknesse as his puppet).


__________________



"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."

~ President Bill Clinton ~
August 28, 2013
50th Anniversary of "I Have a Dream"


All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of any political or government body.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old September 20th, 2007, 5:01 am
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4259 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by purplehawk View Post
We could argue that her loyalty was more to her own progression within the Ministry than any Minister, per se. Umbridge maintained herself very well through three regimes, including Voldemort's (with Thicknesse as his puppet).
That's a fine point - she managed to keep herself on top despite a bad failing and a firm commitment to an incorrect idea (all during OoTP). That's no small feat. I don't agree with her methods of getting to the top and keeping herself on top, but she did manage to look out for her own self-interest quite well.


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old September 20th, 2007, 11:53 am
purplehawk's Avatar
purplehawk  Female.gif purplehawk is offline
Renegade
 
Joined: 5534 days
Location: Buckeye Country
Age: 69
Posts: 28,593
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Man, I wish Jo had told us what happened to her. I keep telling myself she died from hitting her head after Harry stunned her. That would have been really nice. I will be most displeased if she's still working at the Ministry when Jo writes that encyclopedia.


__________________



"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."

~ President Bill Clinton ~
August 28, 2013
50th Anniversary of "I Have a Dream"


All opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect those of any political or government body.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old October 5th, 2007, 4:25 am
Brenda_Cary  Undisclosed.gif Brenda_Cary is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4047 days
Location: Elsewhere
Posts: 27
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I hope I'm not repeating something that was obvious earlier (I didn't read the closed thread). But IMO, down deep Umbridge hated the fact that she was ugly. Then she hated everyone else because they were prettier than she was.

This would explain her fascination with flowers and kittens, as well as the hair bow. She surrounds herself with "pretty" things (not to my taste, but that's another matter).

From her hatred grew the evil we saw.


Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, dolores umbridge


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 5:37 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.