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Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis



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  #1  
Old July 13th, 2007, 12:05 am
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Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Order of the Phoenix. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here:Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?

How effective is the Order as a group?

How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?

What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?


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Old August 1st, 2007, 10:40 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?
To me the Order is no different than the resistance groups in WWII. They both knew that the people who were taking over weren't best for the people in whole. The steped up to fix it even if it meant risking lives it was fr te greater good because if the wrong side took over than it would mean much more trouble than just Mudbloods vs. wizards ect..

How effective is the Order as a group?
As a whole the order seems to be less effective because as one roup they are sitting ducks like Anne Frank kind of was when she was there with her parents and oher people. If they were separated into smaller groups they could divide and conquer beeing more effective and helping others in trouble and recruit people who wanted to help even if they were students because the order was on dumbledores side and at the end of the book all students who were o age stayed to fight regaurdless the fact they were still in school.

How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?
The fact that many people were very open if they were for or against voldemort singled them out. Dumbledore always knew who would be a threat in the beginning. Why else did he refuse Riddle a teaching job when he asked? The Order is secret but its the fact that Riddle and Dumbledore are alot a like and know how they think to some degree that Riddle was able to know who was who and th fact that they had spies also weakened their secretness of the group.

What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?
I don't really have any thought about them afterwards except that they seem like they might become one of the power seeking groups. I don't know really. But the Order seems to have the best intentions they just seem to me like another powerful group in the rising to me. Can't really explain it.


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Old August 2nd, 2007, 7:50 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?
From my perspective the Order doesn't actually compare well with other movements in history. This is because the order isn't secret, and it's members are fairly well known that they're in the order.

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Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
How effective is the Order as a group?
They have as a whole not been effective at least in DH. This is from my view the lack of solid leadership and direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?
The Order itself probably lost most of its secrecy after the first war with Voldemort, since most probably assumed he was going to be gone for a long while, or gone for good, such that there was little need for secrecy.

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Originally Posted by SageThyme View Post
What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?
Post-DH, it would probably contain those people that were ethical, and would be the motivators for change in society that would help clean up the MoM.


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Old August 2nd, 2007, 8:21 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?

Well the Order is made up of magicians against magicians in a world of magic lol. Big difference. People can draw comparisons and JKR may have done so herself; but in the end the world of magic really is quite too fantastic to be comparable.

How effective is the Order as a group?

At times very. They are betrayed, at times by their own leader Dumbledore. He doesn't give them all of the information as if keeping secrets ever works out. It does not within a tight organization. Some feel the "less each individual" knows, the less that can be tortured out of him. But in the world of magic, they should be able to overcome that constraint. I felt it was written rather poorly from that standpoint. They should have been able to be stronger.

How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?

I think the wiz world is not sure of all members of either camp. But the two camps know more or less who is on what side. Sometimes JKR was not careful about this. She had Lupin spying among the werewolves who were loyal to Voldemort and listening to Greyback, both of whom knew Lupin was on the good side and Voldy knew he was in the order (Peter knew). So what kind of spy would that make Lupin? A dead spy. However, in her book, the werewolves didn't seem to know.

Then there was Snape, the sloppy spy for both sides. He would have been ousted by any other fiction dark lord. But in the HP series, Voldemort was kept a bit on the less than intelligent side, all the while built up by society to be this brilliant wizard. Voldy was blinded by way too many things and trusting where no dark lord would be. In the end that didn't work out to make Voldy seem as forbidding as one is used to from Dark Lords.

What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?

Well they really didn't need one did they? All was well. Harry heads the Auror dept. for now in case another emerges, but at present there is no one to resist.



Last edited by wickedwickedboy; August 26th, 2007 at 7:51 am.
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Old August 26th, 2007, 7:00 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

After Dumbledore died, I really felt like the OOTP kind of became weak and unglued. I know they were up against awful people and things, but no one really was ever able to fill Dumbledore's boots. In DH, Dumbledore's Army - even though it was split apart with the trio running around the countryside, mudbloods kept away from Hogwarts until the end battle, and the strong, brave group that resisted at Hogwarts in year 7 - this scattered group of youngsters did more to defeat Voldemort than the OOTP did.


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Old September 22nd, 2007, 10:19 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

With 'the order', The Dark Lord as well as the MoM knew they were around. During WW2, the resistance were more of a threat, especially in Russia and France.
The order really didn't do much in DH, well...they couldn't, could they? It was only at the end, where they could rally at the school in the open.


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Old September 22nd, 2007, 10:31 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by eatus_Benevol1 View Post
After Dumbledore died, I really felt like the OOTP kind of became weak and unglued. I know they were up against awful people and things, but no one really was ever able to fill Dumbledore's boots. In DH, Dumbledore's Army - even though it was split apart with the trio running around the countryside, mudbloods kept away from Hogwarts until the end battle, and the strong, brave group that resisted at Hogwarts in year 7 - this scattered group of youngsters did more to defeat Voldemort than the OOTP did.
I would respectfully disagree. We didn't hear anything about what the Order did in DH at all. All we knew was that Kingsley was still spying at the Ministry and apart from that, we have no idea what missions the others were on (long or short). It was quite possible that they were doing all types of things attempting to infiltrate Voldy's nest or finding out his moves. We know that they were going house to house warning wizards and trying to save some of the muggle born wizards and witches - but they were only a few

Also we know that they did try to keep people updated with Potterwatch - but naturally they couldn't say anything sensitive over the air. But I am sure that Fred and George, Kingsley, Remus, Tonks (when she wasn't too pregnant), Hestia, Arthur, Minerva, Hagrid, Molly, and other Order members didn't just sit around and do nothing - it is just that we only got Harry's viewpoint and he wouldn't be up to date on what was going on. We know Hagrid threw a Party! lol. But seriously, I believe they were doing what they could to help bring down Voldy in any way possible.


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Old October 7th, 2007, 10:45 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?
I think that there are quite some similarities. People risk their lifes to stand up to somebody who they can't win against alone. The Resistance alone without the help of other countries might have never succeeded. The same goes for the Order: after Dumbeldore's death they would have never managed to win without Harry. I think that is something very brave: risking your life for what seems to be a losing battle.
How effective is the Order as a group?
As long as Dum,beldore is their leader, they are quite effective, because he really knows a lot and knows what to do. After that, like I said, I think they know that this might be a losing battle but still fight on.
How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?
I don't think Voldermort knows so many members- the Weasley's house was after all protected because of Harry. Only six other Order-houses were protected like that, so it seems clear that they are memebers. I don't think that Voldermort knows about people like Hestia Jones. Also, I don't think that others than Voldermort know much about the Order.


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Old October 7th, 2007, 11:30 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?
The Order of the Phoenix is very comparable to other resistance groups in that they are fighting for freedom against a seemingly much greater force.

How effective is the Order as a group?
During the first war, the Order wasn’t that effective as a group because, as Lupin says in OotP, they were outnumbered. And the fact that Pettigrew was a spy undermined the Orders’ efforts. However, now that they have a second chance to have a go at Voldemort, I think the Order will be a much more effective group. They probably have a better idea of what works and what doesn’t.

How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?
Since the Death Eaters are the ones fighting the Order, they are likely to be able to identify its members. But aside from the Death Eaters, I don’t think many people know who is a member and who isn’t – I’m sure Dumbledore did all he could to keep their identities a secret. For instance, I don’t think the Ministry or the wizarding world at large knows which people are members of the Order, which is a good thing. The only other non-members besides the Death Eaters to know (at least some of) the identities of the Order are likely to be Order supporters – people not in the organization itself but support it faithfully.

What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?
I just love how they were with Harry to the bitter end, fighting against Voldemort the whole time and risking their lives. I liked how some members were on Potterwatch too.


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Old September 15th, 2009, 11:42 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

I think the Order was far more effective in the past than the last years. It seems that they had problems finding new people in the end, at least not many were mentioned. There were far more when it all started, willing to fight Voldemort. When you see at the picture Moody showed Harry with all the Order members. I think there were only around 25 when Harry joined. IMO too less to effectivly fight an organisation like the DE.

Of course did the DE's know about them. Afterall were they the one who were against them during Voldywar I. You get to know your enemies.


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Old July 14th, 2011, 2:07 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

From the Snape and Dumbledore character analysis thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Yes; after a while IMO, after questions had been raised with Dumbledore's portrait; I think the admission that Snape had indeed turned traitor and was now a DE and murderer, should have come after every other possibility had been exhausted.
But some of the Order's members distrusted Snape from the beginning. It's like they just needed an evidence that he was Voldemort's man to prove that he hadn't been working for them all along. And killing Dumbledore, Voldemort's greatest enemy, was the greatest evidence they could get.

Quote:
Not at once, because I think that makes Dumbledore look like a weak person who was taken in for 16 long years by false tears of remorse and apology, which made him trust a DE with all kinds of sensitive information that could in effect take the war completely from the Order and the WW and ensure Harry's death IMO.

Not a weak person, in my opinion. Just a person who made a mistake, like any human is liable to. Dumbledore was known to appreciate love and believe that it was stronger than magic. So it makes sense for them, that he would believe Snape's remorse and completely trust him; a person with so powerful emotions as to feel regret over the death of his childhood enemy and change sides for that.

Quote:
The strange thing was that after completely believing that Dumbledore was fooled by Snape, the Order still lets Harry & Co. leave without any serious opposition; if they believed that Dumbledore was fooled, how can they be sure that the secret Harry knew, Snape did not know? Snape could have been in the know of Harry's secret job, in which case that would neatly send Harry and his friends into Voldemort's and Snape's arms IMO. So, I think the Order did not conduct itself very well.


You make a good point. However, I think it must be taken into account that Harry and the others were adults when all this had taken place, so they didn't have much power over them as they used to. Also, as I said, I think the Order must have dismissed the whole Snape-Dumbledore relationship as a mistake on Dumbledore's part and not a major issue with huge consequence s.


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Old July 14th, 2011, 3:03 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
Not a weak person, in my opinion. Just a person who made a mistake, like any human is liable to. Dumbledore was known to appreciate love and believe that it was stronger than magic. So it makes sense for them, that he would believe Snape's remorse and completely trust him; a person with so powerful emotions as to feel regret over the death of his childhood enemy and change sides for that.
I agree. Dumbledore was human, and I think it was good for the Order to see him that way, rather than to blindly follow him as if he were omniscient. What I do think the Order never waivered in was their belief in Dumbledore's intent. I think they continued to trust in Dumbledore's good character even as they began to think and act for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods
The strange thing was that after completely believing that Dumbledore was fooled by Snape, the Order still lets Harry & Co. leave without any serious opposition; if they believed that Dumbledore was fooled, how can they be sure that the secret Harry knew, Snape did not know? Snape could have been in the know of Harry's secret job, in which case that would neatly send Harry and his friends into Voldemort's and Snape's arms IMO. So, I think the Order did not conduct itself very well.
I don't think the Order expected Snape to know unexpected information, simply because I think it is general practice not to tell a double agent anything vital for safety reasons. I don't think Order members would expect that Dumbledore would be telling a man who dangled on Voldemort's arm his secret plans. I think the Order decided to trust in Harry, who was also aware of what Snape did and knew the dangers. I think it was an awareness that if theirs was a mission that had to be done despite the danger, Snape's defection wasn't making it any less necessary.


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Old July 15th, 2011, 1:33 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis


How does the Order of the Phoenix group compare to other "secret" organizations like the Resistance movements during World War II?


I think the Order of the Phoenix was quite different from the resistance movements during World War II. In the beginning of the Second Wizard War the Order of the Phoenix stood against not only DE but also the established government in its second incarnation. This is in contrast to resistance groups during WW II who were fighting against occupation. After the DE took over they were more like an underground resistance. They were fighting against occupation but without clear organization and in more scattered forms. It seems that the first Order of the Phoenix had support of the government and could have been considered a sort of secret intelligence agency or special task force.

How effective is the Order as a group?


The order kept Voldemort from gaining access to the prophecy which kept him unprepared and allowed Dumbledore to follow through with his plan. If Voldemort had heard the prophecy he may have deduced that Harry was a horcrux and created a plan to exploit that fact.

How secret is the Order? Voldemort and his Death Eaters seem to know who is and isn't a member, but how many others know that much detail?


I think the second incarnation was more secret than the first because they essentially had to fight two opposing sides the DE and Fudge's goverment. I would say the DE and the Order were well known to each other. But both had to keep their identities secret from the wizard government during OOTP. The Order members from the first war were probably assumed to have formed another Order. They probably weren't aware of the new recruits like Kingsley, Tonks, and the Weasleys. The Weasleys were probably suspected by Fudge's government because of their close association
with Harry. The DE's probably knew outright that the Weasleys were involved because Snape as a double agent would have had to give Voldemort accurate information on all members identities but would have downplayed their importance.


What new thoughts do you have on the Order post DH?


I think the Order served their purpose during the Battle of Hogwarts and were respectful of Trio's mission assigned to him by Dumbledore.



Last edited by Revaunch; July 15th, 2011 at 1:41 am. Reason: grammar
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Old July 18th, 2011, 5:19 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
But some of the Order's members distrusted Snape from the beginning. It's like they just needed an evidence that he was Voldemort's man to prove that he hadn't been working for them all along. And killing Dumbledore, Voldemort's greatest enemy, was the greatest evidence they could get.
If they distrusted Snape from the beginning, then they should have taken up that issue with Dumbledore imo. Snape was in the know of everything sensitive and maybe things the rest of the Order did not know as well. So, if many members of the Order felt that there was something they did not quite trust about Snape, I think they should taken that issue to Dumbledore. Many of the members who were there would not have forgotten the first time when there had been a traitor in the Order, and would know how deadly it could be. All the more reason for them to tell Dumbledore that their confidence in Snape was shaky and could Dumbledore really provide them with more proof about Snape being on their side instead of being a traitor imo.

Quote:
Not a weak person, in my opinion. Just a person who made a mistake, like any human is liable to. Dumbledore was known to appreciate love and believe that it was stronger than magic. So it makes sense for them, that he would believe Snape's remorse and completely trust him; a person with so powerful emotions as to feel regret over the death of his childhood enemy and change sides for that.
For 16 years, Dumbledore trusted and believed Snape and the Order believed Snape because Dumbledore believed him while the Order was also wondering about him (McG's words 'we all wondered or something similar). The moment Dumbledore was killed, the Order was sure that 16 years of trust and belief by Dumbledore in Snape's remorse was wrong. I think it shows a lack of trust in Dumbledore's leadership and in Dumbledore himself. For me the problem is not that they believed what they could not disbelieve because it was there for all to see, but that they accept it at once.

Quote:
Also, as I said, I think the Order must have dismissed the whole Snape-Dumbledore relationship as a mistake on Dumbledore's part and not a major issue with huge consequence s.
I disagree. Snape was clearly an important member of the Order and he was close to Dumbledore; he seemed to have attended Order meetings and have a knowledge of most plans to counter DE activities. Snape going over to the DEs IMO is a huge issue with major consequences, simply because the Order did not know what Dumbledore had shared with Snape and what he had not, and the sad thing was that they did not care to learn from Dumbledore's portrait either. In that light the damage Snape could have done was huge and I am amazed the Order did not do more to stem the damage from the fallout with Snape, except place spells in Grimmauld Place. In that light I think it becomes more important that the Order make Harry and Co. understand that their mission could well be known to Snape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
I don't think the Order expected Snape to know unexpected information, simply because I think it is general practise not to tell a double agent anything vital for safety reasons. I don't think Order members would expect that Dumbledore would be telling a man who dangled on Voldemort's arm his secret plans. I think the Order decided to trust in Harry, who was also aware of what Snape did and knew the dangers. I think it was an awareness that if theirs was a mission that had to be done despite the danger, Snape's defection wasn't making it any less necessary.
Dumbledore gave evidence that Snape was no more a DE than he was. That was the level of trust he had in Snape. I just feel bad that everyone, even McGonagall who knew Dumbledore for a long, long time felt Dumbledore could be so gullible and so easily taken in and for 16 long years, without a suspicion, a doubt about his true loyalties.


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Old July 18th, 2011, 9:00 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Dumbledore gave evidence that Snape was no more a DE than he was. That was the level of trust he had in Snape. I just feel bad that everyone, even McGonagall who knew Dumbledore for a long, long time felt Dumbledore could be so gullible and so easily taken in and for 16 long years, without a suspicion, a doubt about his true loyalties.
I think that is how it appeared, because Dumbledore and Snape purposefully set out to dupe the Order. It is a sad set of circumstances the Order couldn't trust trust Dumbledore or Snape more, and that Dumbledore and Snape didn't trust the Order. Also I think it possible that over the years the Order members picked up on subtle body language and other cues that subconsciously clued them into there not being as much trust going around as their leader claimed there was, and this made it easier for the Order to accept the evidence before them when Snape did go and kill Dumbledore.


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Old March 3rd, 2012, 4:02 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

I was disappointed by the role the Order ultimately had in the series- or should I say lack thereof. It seemed to me like JKR introduced them in OotP and then dropped them afterwards because she didn't know what else to do with them. After OotP introduced them I thought they were an interesting organisation consisting of very different wizards and witches with very different abilities that I hoped would somehow come into play later on in the war. Alas, they didn't. Moody was killed relatively early in the struggle and was therefore denied participation in the great final battle, Tonks was severely underused and her Metamorphmagus powers served no purpose whatsoever besides the amusement of Ginny and Hermione. Kingsley was the only Order member which contributed and lived up to expectations, IMO. The other were content with hosting a radio show, which though it gave Harry some essential information, it was still not a worthy occupation for wizards of their caliber. So yeah, I was expecting more from them, they seemed so promising.


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Old March 3rd, 2012, 5:37 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

I agree with much of what you say (especially Tonks' metamorphmagus powers-- why were those even introduced? ) but on the other hand, I think there's a reason for all that. I think most of the young readership is meant to relate to Harry and his friends. By making the adults ineffectual, the kids (and consequently the readers) are given more importance. Kids like to think they have the power and importance to change things. Heck, anyone does. The trio's incredibly important role in the war IMO gives the reader the feeling that kids like them can have that power.


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Old March 8th, 2012, 1:49 am
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Sereena View Post
I was disappointed by the role the Order ultimately had in the series- or should I say lack thereof. It seemed to me like JKR introduced them in OotP and then dropped them afterwards because she didn't know what else to do with them. After OotP introduced them I thought they were an interesting organisation consisting of very different wizards and witches with very different abilities that I hoped would somehow come into play later on in the war. Alas, they didn't.
I know what you mean, the Order seemed pretty useless; at least they were portrayed as not doing much. And how could they? they all seemed to have full time jobs they had to be getting on with, either as Aurors, working in the Ministry in general, as the muggle Prime Minister's secretary and secret body guard, or as a Hogwarts teacher. Sirius was the only member in the 1990's Order who seemed not to be encumbered with other responsibilites but he was stuck inside No. 12 Grimmauld Place and couldn't do anything and then was killed in the one instance where he left Grimmauld Place.

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Moody was killed relatively early in the struggle and was therefore denied participation in the great final battle
I understand why he was killed and the significance it held in the story but I really wanted him to fight in the battle of hogwarts.

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Tonks was severely underused and her Metamorphmagus powers served no purpose whatsoever besides the amusement of Ginny and Hermione.
I agree. Why even introduce that ability if it bears no influence on the plot or pays off in someway?

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Kingsley was the only Order member which contributed and lived up to expectations, IMO.
To a certain extent I would include Lupin in this small category. He did try and infiltrate the werewolves, though how successful he would have been at it being a known former Order member is questionable.

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The other were content with hosting a radio show, which though it gave Harry some essential information, it was still not a worthy occupation for wizards of their caliber. So yeah, I was expecting more from them, they seemed so promising.
The radio program was a plot device that didn't need to include the Order, IMO.

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Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
I think most of the young readership is meant to relate to Harry and his friends. By making the adults ineffectual, the kids (and consequently the readers) are given more importance. Kids like to think they have the power and importance to change things. Heck, anyone does. The trio's incredibly important role in the war IMO gives the reader the feeling that kids like them can have that power.
The thing is, though, Harry was always going to be the hero. He is the only one who could have been the hero, whether he became that hero at the age of 17 or the age of 42. The kids were always the focus of the books because it was the story of Harry and his friends who all happened to be kids, and readers of all ages were meant to relate to Harry and his friends so I think it was less about inspiring young people to believe they are capable of miraculous things than inspiring people in general to step up and do the right thing no matter the consequences.


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Old March 8th, 2012, 9:04 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Sereena View Post
I was disappointed by the role the Order ultimately had in the series- or should I say lack thereof. It seemed to me like JKR introduced them in OotP and then dropped them afterwards because she didn't know what else to do with them. After OotP introduced them I thought they were an interesting organisation consisting of very different wizards and witches with very different abilities that I hoped would somehow come into play later on in the war.
I think JKR steered away from focusing too much on the Order because it was Harry's story, it was Harry's journey. It wasn't meant to be some political intrigue from many perspectives.

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Tonks was severely underused and her Metamorphmagus powers served no purpose whatsoever besides the amusement of Ginny and Hermione.
It may have come in useful, we don't know what the Order were doing a lot of the time. It may have been very useful when Tonks was on guard duty at the Dept. of Mysteries.

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The other were content with hosting a radio show, which though it gave Harry some essential information, it was still not a worthy occupation for wizards of their caliber.
I don't think the radio show was the only thing they were doing, though. And while I agree with GoddessClio that it was a plot device, I think it was also something that gave the public hope. In much the same way as Neville's cheek to the Carrows gave the students hope. It was hope to carry on, hope that there was a resistance, hope that they weren't yet completely defeated. Personally, I think that's something worthy. Hope is important.

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Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
To a certain extent I would include Lupin in this small category. He did try and infiltrate the werewolves, though how successful he would have been at it being a known former Order member is questionable.
Perhaps Fenrir would have readily believed that someone else had a massive chip on their shoulder just as he did. And/or he might have been willing to believe that Remus had turned against the wizarding community because of Umbridge's new laws.

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The kids were always the focus of the books because it was the story of Harry and his friends who all happened to be kids, and readers of all ages were meant to relate to Harry and his friends so I think it was less about inspiring young people to believe they are capable of miraculous things than inspiring people in general to step up and do the right thing no matter the consequences.
I agree.


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Old March 8th, 2012, 10:09 pm
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Re: Order of the Phoenix : Group Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post
It may have come in useful, we don't know what the Order were doing a lot of the time. It may have been very useful when Tonks was on guard duty at the Dept. of Mysteries.
But unless you, the writer, are going to reference this ability the character possesses or make it integral to the plot in someway than the ability is useless and should have been left out. Tonks, as a character, would function 100% the same if her metamorphmagus abilities were never mentioned in canon. They served no purpose to the plot of OOTP, HBP or DH or the overall story in general. Should have been left out, in my opinion.

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Perhaps Fenrir would have readily believed that someone else had a massive chip on their shoulder just as he did. And/or he might have been willing to believe that Remus had turned against the wizarding community because of Umbridge's new laws.
Umbridge's law is a good point... I still think Fenrir would have been suspicious of a former Order member coming up and wanting to join his werewolf pack. It's like a "former" cop approaching the Hell's Angels wanting to join their biker gang. Are they seriously going to believe he's not undercover just because he says so? No, they're going to make him kill someone to prove he's not a cop. Likewise, Remus would have been presented with some sort of heinous initiation, maybe like biting and infecting a young child. Personally, I don't think he would do it, therefore the pack wouldn't believe him and he'd all of a sudden be up $#!+ creek without a paddle.


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