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Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2



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  #1041  
Old March 27th, 2014, 10:08 pm
wolfbrother  Male.gif wolfbrother is offline
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Not necessarily with the AK's. A well aimed Diffindo or a Reducto could do it too. A powerful Lumos for example could blind the opponent. In the 7 Potters, a simple stunning spell could kill the DE by making him fall from a great height and summoning his broom could hurt him badly too.
Yes, that's exactly my point. Jo was making a conscious effort to make any deaths caused by Order members ambigious and/or accidental. Its almost like PR spin.

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I think it does not matter whether Snape is an Occlumens or not. It does not matter whether Snape heard the full Prophecy or not. It does not even matter whether Snape heard anything at all; the moment Snape was caught eavesdropping outside a first floor room (so he could not be there by chance) upon Dumbledore who was, during that period engaged in a terrible war, he should have been investigated.

And since Dumbledore at that time was hearing something very important, something that could very well end the war, if handled properly, the resultant investigation IMO should have been more thorough.
What was Dumbledore supposed to do in order to be thorough? There wasn't anything he could do other than questioning him. Dumbledore likely had a large amount of confidence in his ability to catch liars. The problem was that Snape was the one person who could fool Dumbledore. If Dumbledore didn't know Snape was an Occlumens, there was no reason at all for him to believe that he was being lied to.

Another question here was what Snape was doing there in the first place. Nobody could have predicted that Trelawney was going to make a prophecy at that time. According to Trelawney, Snape was also trying to get a job at that time. That is a far more believable reason for Snape being there. Dumbledore was hardly going to be telling his plans for Voldemort to a woman who was looking for a job.

Snape was also meant to take a job at Hogwarts by Voldemort so his background check would have come clean. Detaining someone indefinitely for potentially being in the wrong place at the wrong time without proof is *never* the right thing to do. That's the sort of stuff that happens in surveillance states.

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Snape was a Slytherin at that time and with the view Slytherins were placed under, I can't believe that Dumbledore would not have suspected Snape to be DE or someone at the very least extremely suspicious for being caught at the time and place he was.

I think at that time Dumbledore either should have investigated Snape throughly or if he let Snape off (which was a massively wrong thing to do IMO) it should have been done with the understanding Snape heard everything, and that it was good news for his side to let Snape leave with what he heard.

I think that's how it should have worked. To let Snape go with what he heard, and assuming he heard nothing or believing whatever Snape said and took him at his word IMO disqualifies Dumbledore as a leader who fought Voldemort, because he clearly did not fight in any manner that mattered at all, and was floundering to say the least and was guilty of gross negligence that placed people working for him at tremendous risk at the worst.

But I believe Dumbledore did neither. He knew precisely what Snape heard and it was because Snape did not hear everything that he let Snape go, knowing that he would go straight to Voldemort.

He also followed that decision with giving Trelawney a job, so that Voldemort could not get to her for the rest of the Prophecy.
All this is based on the assumption that Dumbledore thought the prophecy incredibly important. It wasn't. Dumbledore didn't need a prophecy to beat Voldemort. There already existed someone with the "power to vanquish the Dark Lord": Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore was not going to wait 17+ years for a kid to grow up and kill Voldemort. He had no intention of even letting the prophecy play out.

The fact that Voldemort didn't hear the second part of the prophecy is also overblown. It was not going to stop Voldemort from trying to kill the boy. He was not going to hang back and wait for fear that he was going to "mark him as his equal". The knowledge that this kid would have a power that he did not, would only confirm his decision to act immediately. I imagine that Voldemort and Dumbledore predicted the child to be a mini-version of themselves - an outrageously talented and powerful kid who would be leagues ahead of his peers. There was no way Voldemort was going to wait around to kill someone, who apparently had a power that he did not, who was guaranteed to be tutored directly by Dumbledore.

Dumbledore did infact take into account the possibility that he was wrong when he let Snape go. That is why he offered Trelawney the job and I imagine he would have increased security for whoever was likely to be Voldemort's target. Even in the worst case scenario of Snape hearing everything and telling Voldemort, it would only mean that one extra person was going to be a target. It could be argued that the kid was going to be at risk anyway since his parents were already targets. From Dumbledore's point of view, it did not make much difference. Whatever protection the parents got, the child was also going to get.

I think the importance he gave to the prophecy would have been similar to the importance he gave to Trelawney's second prophecy. He didn't seem bothered at all about Peter's life being spared even though the prophecy said that it would result in Voldemort returning stronger.


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  #1042  
Old March 28th, 2014, 10:36 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
What was Dumbledore supposed to do in order to be thorough?
Question him Under Veritaserum or use an oath or Legilimency? Three things I can think of right now. I think Dumbledore should really not have let Snape off without knowing where Snape came from, who he was working for, what he had to gain from eavesdropping on him and last but not the least what he was going to do with the information he had overheard. This IMO is the very least Dumbledore should have done, simply because it was war. In wartime everything is different, everyone suspicious and spying upon the leader of the opposition to Voldemort should IMO result in a checking. To believe Snape and send him away seems to me the height of naive and it really shows nothing except that war with Voldemort was not being fought by Dumbledore. But by leading a resistence he was placing those who worked for him at tremendous risk and places their deaths on his negligence rather than the casualty of war.

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There wasn't anything he could do other than questioning him. Dumbledore likely had a large amount of confidence in his ability to catch liars.
I disagree. I'm afraid that mere confidence in himself won't do at a time like that. He needed to be certain, to know.

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The problem was that Snape was the one person who could fool Dumbledore. If Dumbledore didn't know Snape was an Occlumens, there was no reason at all for him to believe that he was being lied to.
We don't know if that is true, that Snape was at 20 years able to fool Dumbledore. but the point I made in my previous posts was that its immaterial whether Snape was an Occlumens with the capacity to fool Dumbledore or not. The moment he was caught eavesdropping he should have been locked up and investigated one way up and another way down and if Snape was going to be let off, it must be with the knowledge that what Snape knew and would reveal to anyone would not hurt the Order or its members and if such information could harm certain Order members, they could be more than adequately protected.

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Another question here was what Snape was doing there in the first place.
Dumbledore says he came to spy in the first place, but that to his good fortune Snape was caught only a little way into the Prophecy and was thrown out.

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Nobody could have predicted that Trelawney was going to make a prophecy at that time. According to Trelawney, Snape was also trying to get a job at that time. That is a far more believable reason for Snape being there. Dumbledore was hardly going to be telling his plans for Voldemort to a woman who was looking for a job.
I agree. No one could predict Trelawney was going to make a Prophecy. Not even Dumbledore who says pretty much the same thing in OOTP. And I also agree Snape was there on Voldemort's orders (he says to Bellatrix in HBP - Spinner's End chapter) to seek a job. So, yes, Snape may have come to approach Dumbledore for a job; but he was also very clearly caught eavesdropping. If he came for a job only, he would have first approached Aberforth about meeting with Dumbledore or sent an owl to him and confirmed his meeting, in which case, he would have been waiting patiently for his turn.

Snape did something else. We don't know if he had owled the Headmaster for meeting, but we do know he was caught eavesdropping and he was thrown out. So he was either thrown our despite his arranging a meeting with Dumbledore because of his poor conduct or he was thrown out because he simply stalked Dumbledore and then eavesdropped on him.

Whatever it was, it was a suspicious action, which in the times they lived should have been investigated inside out.

I believe it was and Dumbledore sent Snape away knowing full well he would go to Voldemort with it and that Voldemort would act on it, thereby starting the fulfilment of the Prophecy. In order to protect the rest of the Prophecy from getting into Voldemort's hands Dumbledore gave Trelawney a job, when in the first place he was not intending to do so.

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Snape was also meant to take a job at Hogwarts by Voldemort so his background check would have come clean. Detaining someone indefinitely for potentially being in the wrong place at the wrong time without proof is *never* the right thing to do. That's the sort of stuff that happens in surveillance states.
It also happens when the state is in a civil war of sorts IMO. The WW was under attack for over 11 years (IIRC) continuously by Voldemort and his death eaters; it was at that time Snape was caught.

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All this is based on the assumption that Dumbledore thought the prophecy incredibly important.
I think Dumbledore thought Voldemort may be interested. I think by that time Dumbledore was desperate and if he could make Voldemort believe that there was a person who could bring his downfall and keep him occupied with that for some time, much as he did with the Elder Wand in DH, giving Harry time to search Horcruxes, he would.

Not to say they are the perfect of plans, none of them are, but Dumbledore went with what he had IMO.

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It wasn't. Dumbledore didn't need a prophecy to beat Voldemort. There already existed someone with the "power to vanquish the Dark Lord": Albus Dumbledore. Dumbledore was not going to wait 17+ years for a kid to grow up and kill Voldemort. He had no intention of even letting the prophecy play out.
I agree. Dumbledore would do everything to defeat Voldemort and this was another ploy. Like even after knowing Harry was the BWL, Dumbledore searched high and low for Horcruxes to destroy them; he did not leave that for Harry because he was prophesied to defeat Voldemort. Like that, the one part of the Prophecy that Voldemort heard would serve much in the same way.

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He was not going to hang back and wait for fear that he was going to "mark him as his equal". The knowledge that this kid would have a power that he did not, would only confirm his decision to act immediately. I imagine that Voldemort and Dumbledore predicted the child to be a mini-version of themselves - an outrageously talented and powerful kid who would be leagues ahead of his peers. There was no way Voldemort was going to wait around to kill someone, who apparently had a power that he did not, who was guaranteed to be tutored directly by Dumbledore.
Which was why Dumbledore needed to protect the boy with everything he had. I think he failed in that task. If Snape had not begged for Lily's life and if Voldemort had not agreed to spare her; and if Lily had thrown Voldemort's order to step aside back on his face or stepped aside, Harry would have died IMO.

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I think the importance he gave to the prophecy would have been similar to the importance he gave to Trelawney's second prophecy. He didn't seem bothered at all about Peter's life being spared even though the prophecy said that it would result in Voldemort returning stronger.
I think he gave the second Prophecy some importance, enough to impress Harry, that it saved his life in Malfoy Manor much later.


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  #1043  
Old March 30th, 2014, 10:26 pm
wolfbrother  Male.gif wolfbrother is offline
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Question him Under Veritaserum or use an oath or Legilimency? Three things I can think of right now. I think Dumbledore should really not have let Snape off without knowing where Snape came from, who he was working for, what he had to gain from eavesdropping on him and last but not the least what he was going to do with the information he had overheard. This IMO is the very least Dumbledore should have done, simply because it was war. In wartime everything is different, everyone suspicious and spying upon the leader of the opposition to Voldemort should IMO result in a checking. To believe Snape and send him away seems to me the height of naive and it really shows nothing except that war with Voldemort was not being fought by Dumbledore. But by leading a resistence he was placing those who worked for him at tremendous risk and places their deaths on his negligence rather than the casualty of war.
Both Legilimency and Veritaserum can be countered. If the WW had a fool-proof way of getting the truth out of someone, they'd have no problems putting the right person in prison. There was nothing Dumbledore could do to prove that Snape was with Voldemort. He could have tried to torture the truth out of Snape but even that is not reliable. Even in the real world, competent spies don't get caught by failing lie detector tests or being intimidated in some way. They get put under heavy surveillance and are caught in the act at a later date.

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I disagree. I'm afraid that mere confidence in himself won't do at a time like that. He needed to be certain, to know.
Except he couldn't know at the time. He had to weigh the odds and make a decision. This was not the first or last decision that Dumbledore made without being completely sure. Very rarely do situations present themselves where you have perfect information in order to make the optimal choice.

The Order of the Phoenix was a voluntary organization. Dumbledore did not force anyone to join and would not stop anyone from leaving. Every member would have known the risks when they signed up. If they had a problem with the way Dumbledore was dealing with things, they were quite free to leave or set up their own resistance organization.

Also the fact that the Order of Phoenix was under so much pressure was not because Dumbledore was making mistakes or Voldemort was outwitting him. The Order had a spy in their midst, were outnumbered and had been fighting a long war.

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We don't know if that is true, that Snape was at 20 years able to fool Dumbledore. but the point I made in my previous posts was that its immaterial whether Snape was an Occlumens with the capacity to fool Dumbledore or not. The moment he was caught eavesdropping he should have been locked up and investigated one way up and another way down and if Snape was going to be let off, it must be with the knowledge that what Snape knew and would reveal to anyone would not hurt the Order or its members and if such information could harm certain Order members, they could be more than adequately protected.
Snape would have already been very good given that he was supposed to fool Dumbledore and it wasn't very long after that that he became a double agent. Snape's cover was not going to be blown by Dumbledore.

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Dumbledore says he came to spy in the first place, but that to his good fortune Snape was caught only a little way into the Prophecy and was thrown out.
I believe he says Snape was eavesdropping, which I read as an opportunistic act.

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I agree. No one could predict Trelawney was going to make a Prophecy. Not even Dumbledore who says pretty much the same thing in OOTP. And I also agree Snape was there on Voldemort's orders (he says to Bellatrix in HBP - Spinner's End chapter) to seek a job. So, yes, Snape may have come to approach Dumbledore for a job; but he was also very clearly caught eavesdropping. If he came for a job only, he would have first approached Aberforth about meeting with Dumbledore or sent an owl to him and confirmed his meeting, in which case, he would have been waiting patiently for his turn.

Snape did something else. We don't know if he had owled the Headmaster for meeting, but we do know he was caught eavesdropping and he was thrown out. So he was either thrown our despite his arranging a meeting with Dumbledore because of his poor conduct or he was thrown out because he simply stalked Dumbledore and then eavesdropped on him.

Whatever it was, it was a suspicious action, which in the times they lived should have been investigated inside out.
Snape was tasked by Voldemort to get a job at Hogwarts in order to spy on Dumbledore. Snape needed to get that job or face Voldemort's displeasure. So Snape gets curious and decides to listen in on Dumbledore's interview, see if he can pick up some pointers. While this behavior was suspicious and poor, it was understandable. Dumbledore would certainly have found it believable. Dumbledore would have had a much bigger cause for concern if Snape had been caught trying to listen in on an obvious secret meeting.

I highly doubt this was the first time, someone was caught trying to overhear his conversations. He's probably dealt with his share of nosy people. Dumbledore was also the guy who told Harry that curiosity was not a sin.

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I believe it was and Dumbledore sent Snape away knowing full well he would go to Voldemort with it and that Voldemort would act on it, thereby starting the fulfilment of the Prophecy. In order to protect the rest of the Prophecy from getting into Voldemort's hands Dumbledore gave Trelawney a job, when in the first place he was not intending to do so.
Ok, lets assume that this is what happened. What is Dumbledore's plan here? Somehow "let" Voldemort get to the chosen boy?

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It also happens when the state is in a civil war of sorts IMO. The WW was under attack for over 11 years (IIRC) continuously by Voldemort and his death eaters; it was at that time Snape was caught.
Yes it happens but it is not a good thing when everyone gets treated by suspicion and paranoia. You're not telling me that Wizarding England should have devolved into, for example, a Soviet state where people are worried about what they speak and what they do because your calls are tapped, activities monitored and any random person on the street could be a KGB agent who could get you indefinitely imprisoned.

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I think Dumbledore thought Voldemort may be interested. I think by that time Dumbledore was desperate and if he could make Voldemort believe that there was a person who could bring his downfall and keep him occupied with that for some time, much as he did with the Elder Wand in DH, giving Harry time to search Horcruxes, he would.

Not to say they are the perfect of plans, none of them are, but Dumbledore went with what he had IMO.
I think Voldemort was quite capable of running multiple plots at the same time. He was hardly going to be personally looking for the child. He'd have his death eaters bring him information that he needed.

The Elder Wand hunt didn't really benefit Harry. Voldemort was never going to personally search for Harry. He had his death eaters, the Ministry and those Snatchers doing all the grunt work. He'd also set it up in such a way that he could appear almost immediately if Harry was caught.

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Which was why Dumbledore needed to protect the boy with everything he had. I think he failed in that task. If Snape had not begged for Lily's life and if Voldemort had not agreed to spare her; and if Lily had thrown Voldemort's order to step aside back on his face or stepped aside, Harry would have died IMO.
The key thing here is that Dumbledore did not think the boy was of *vital* importance. The child being killed did not affect Dumbledore's plan in any way. It was not strategically important for him. Assuming he told James and Lily the prophecy, the rest was not his concern. He told them that Fidelius Charm was their best hope and offered to be Secret Keeper. Whether they decided to follow his advice was not his concern anymore. The Potters could have decided to use some other method to protect themselves other than the Fidelius Charm if they wanted and it would not have been Dumbledore's business.

Additionally, I don't think James and Lily would have taken it well at all if they learnt that Dumbledore deliberately set their child up as a target. If this is what happened or even partially true, then the Potters were entirely validated in picking someone else as Secret Keeper.

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I think he gave the second Prophecy some importance, enough to impress Harry, that it saved his life in Malfoy Manor much later.
He was very nonchalant over the whole thing. All the people who died, starting from Bertha Jorkins to Remus Lupin, can be directly tied to Harry's decision to let Peter live, which resulted in Voldemort's return. A tiny unconscious merciful impulse from Peter doesn't compare to the many many people who died because of Voldemort's return.

Dumbledore did not care about prophecies at all. He never took them into consideration when making plans which was what his impassioned speech to Harry was all about.


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  #1044  
Old April 28th, 2014, 2:32 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
He was very nonchalant over the whole thing. All the people who died, starting from Bertha Jorkins to Remus Lupin, can be directly tied to Harry's decision to let Peter live, which resulted in Voldemort's return. A tiny unconscious merciful impulse from Peter doesn't compare to the many many people who died because of Voldemort's return.
I think this is a massive overstatement. Voldemort had horcruxes. He was always going to come back. It was just a matter of when. At the time that Harry allowed Peter to live he was thirteen. He still had faith in justice and redemption. He fully intended for Peter to rot in Azkaban. There was no way he could have foreseen that Peter would escape again, nor that Peter would be key in Voldemort's return.

As to Dumbledore...he made a variety of bad decisions. But again most of these decisions were only bad in hindsight. Certainly every single one of Dumbledore's decisions was justifiable in the moment. Secondly, who did Dumbledore have to bounce ideas off of or hold him accountable? No one. Everyone looked to him for guidance and protection. There was no one to say no to him. And Dumbledore knew this about himself. He knew that he could have easily become just like Voldemort.


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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:47 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
Both Legilimency and Veritaserum can be countered. If the WW had a fool-proof way of getting the truth out of someone, they'd have no problems putting the right person in prison. There was nothing Dumbledore could do to prove that Snape was with Voldemort. He could have tried to torture the truth out of Snape but even that is not reliable. Even in the real world, competent spies don't get caught by failing lie detector tests or being intimidated in some way. They get put under heavy surveillance and are caught in the act at a later date.
That's IMO no reason not to try. There are always going to be people who beat the system. But that does not mean one does away with the system or stops enforcing it. Severus Snape was at that time all of 20 years give or take a few months. I think Dumbeldore had the edge on him.

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Except he couldn't know at the time. He had to weigh the odds and make a decision. This was not the first or last decision that Dumbledore made without being completely sure. Very rarely do situations present themselves where you have perfect information in order to make the optimal choice.
I agree. My point is that in cases like this, it's better to err on the side of caution than anything else. Of course I think Snape was sent off with what he heard, with Dumbledore's blessing as it were.

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The Order of the Phoenix was a voluntary organization. Dumbledore did not force anyone to join and would not stop anyone from leaving. Every member would have known the risks when they signed up. If they had a problem with the way Dumbledore was dealing with things, they were quite free to leave or set up their own resistance organization.
Sure it's a voluntary organisation and I also agree that members knew the risks they were taking when they signed up. But that does not mean incompetence could do them in. I don't think any Order memebr signed up for that. Dumbledore sending Snape away merely on his word in the middle of a war would come under negligence whichever way I look at it, unless he had a plan for doing so.

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Also the fact that the Order of Phoenix was under so much pressure was not because Dumbledore was making mistakes or Voldemort was outwitting him. The Order had a spy in their midst, were outnumbered and had been fighting a long war.
Another place Dumbeldore would agree he failed in a big way IMO. Who knows what lives were lost because of Peter and I believe that would have sat heavily on Dumbeldore's mind.

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Snape would have already been very good given that he was supposed to fool Dumbledore and it wasn't very long after that that he became a double agent. Snape's cover was not going to be blown by Dumbledore.
Assuming what you say is true and Snape was good enough an Occlumens, I think this should make Dumbledore more suspicious than satisfied all was well and that Snape could go on his way. An Occlumens at 20, who was caught eavesdropping IMO should never be believed.

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Ok, lets assume that this is what happened. What is Dumbledore's plan here? Somehow "let" Voldemort get to the chosen boy?
I think Dumbledore thought he could protect the family and while Voldemort was concentrating on somehow trying to get at that family, the WW could get a breather, while Dumbledore tried his best to defeat Voldemort. Just like when he created time for the Trio to search horcruxes, when Voldemort was occupied with the search for the Elder Wand.

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Additionally, I don't think James and Lily would have taken it well at all if they learnt that Dumbledore deliberately set their child up as a target. If this is what happened or even partially true, then the Potters were entirely validated in picking someone else as Secret Keeper.
The Potters could have chosen anyone, I think the way they went about it ensured there was a greater chance they would not survive.


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  #1046  
Old July 25th, 2014, 10:24 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Originally Posted by flimseycauldron View Post
I think this is a massive overstatement. Voldemort had horcruxes. He was always going to come back. It was just a matter of when.
Dumbledore preferred to delay the "when" as much as possible. I don't blame Dumbledore for his reaction and I think he would have reacted much the same way as Harry. He would have spared Peter's life even if he had heard the prophecy first-hand. My point was about Dumbledore not giving much importance to prophecies. He had a "what will happen will happen" philosophy towards it and didn't go out of the way to accomodate it in his plans.

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
That's IMO no reason not to try. There are always going to be people who beat the system. But that does not mean one does away with the system or stops enforcing it. Severus Snape was at that time all of 20 years give or take a few months. I think Dumbeldore had the edge on him.
Voldemort was sending Snape with the intention to spy on Dumbledore so I imagine his skills were already on-par or better than Dumbledore. He was certainly already better than Voldemort himself at the time.

I think Dumbledore questioned Snape and found no red flags. This is Dumbledore who likely has a lot of experience and makes a routine habit of knowing when he is being lied to. He would have believed, just like you, that he was much better skilled than some 20 year old.

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I agree. My point is that in cases like this, it's better to err on the side of caution than anything else. Of course I think Snape was sent off with what he heard, with Dumbledore's blessing as it were.
Perhaps he should have been more suspicious though it really wouldn't have mattered. Snape would have passed those tests anyway. Now that I think of it, Dumbledore best option should probably have been to wipe Snape's memory. Either Snape was innocent and remains ignorant or he has his mind fried by Voldemort. Voldemort would still learn of the prophecy but Snape would be dead. We could say that it was justice served for him being a death eater in the first place.

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Sure it's a voluntary organisation and I also agree that members knew the risks they were taking when they signed up. But that does not mean incompetence could do them in. I don't think any Order memebr signed up for that. Dumbledore sending Snape away merely on his word in the middle of a war would come under negligence whichever way I look at it, unless he had a plan for doing so.
I don't think Dumbledore sent him away just on his word. I think Snape would have passed Dumbledore's smell test.

The only reliable way for Dumbledore to keep the prophecy from Voldemort was to detain Snape. Detain Snape when he had no proof whatsoever of his involvement with Voldemort. This is the sort of stuff that happens in our world: People being detained indefinitely with no proof for something circumstantial. This is something I strongly disagree with so I don't hold it against Dumbledore and I don't think members of the Order would either.

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Assuming what you say is true and Snape was good enough an Occlumens, I think this should make Dumbledore more suspicious than satisfied all was well and that Snape could go on his way. An Occlumens at 20, who was caught eavesdropping IMO should never be believed.
But Dumbledore wouldn't know he was being fooled. Snape would never have succeeded as a spy if Dumbledore and Voldemort could easily figure out that he was employing Occlumency against them.

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I think Dumbledore thought he could protect the family and while Voldemort was concentrating on somehow trying to get at that family, the WW could get a breather, while Dumbledore tried his best to defeat Voldemort. Just like when he created time for the Trio to search horcruxes, when Voldemort was occupied with the search for the Elder Wand.
Except Voldemort hunting the EW made no difference at all. He had his people murdering and terrorizing and he was able to return instantly when neccessary. Voldemort always delegated his tasks to his death eaters and only showed up for the important events. I suspect the same happened during the first war. You were far more likely to run into death eaters and if you were important enough, Voldemort would be alerted and he would show up immediately.

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The Potters could have chosen anyone, I think the way they went about it ensured there was a greater chance they would not survive.
If Dumbledore was following your plan, then I think Potters made the right decision to pick someone else other than Dumbledore. If Dumbledore was willing to use a child as bait for Voldemort, he would also be willing to sacrifice that child if he felt it was necessary.

I'm a huge fan of Dumbledore but knowing what I know of him, I would not trust him to keep someone I love safe. I don't blame Dumbledore for this. His job was to get rid of Voldemort even if it meant suffering some personnel losses. I'd definitely have him in charge but I see his goal of beating Voldemort and keeping someone safe as a potential conflict of interest.


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Old July 28th, 2014, 11:26 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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1. What are your general thoughts on Dumbledore as a character through books 1-7? Do you see a difference in his behavior and/or actions between the books?
I feel that in the first 4 books he was testing Harry to see what Harry was made of . To find out if Harry was up to the task of defeating Voldemort. In the last books he was teaching Harry how to think and how to lead others ,how to make hard decisions and see them through.

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2. Throughout the books, Dumbledore seems to always be teaching Harry something, but his lessons are sometimes hidden and subtle. What do you believe are the most important lessons Dumbledore taught Harry? Did Dumbledore adequately prepare Harry for the trials that lie ahead in book 7? Is there anything you think Dumbledore should have told Harry before he died?
He taught Harry that the only one who can help Harry was Harry himself. As I said above he taught Harry how to lead others and to follow a plan through.

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3. What did you think of the revelations of DH regarding Dumbledore's family? How did these tragedies affect the person he is now?
I felt that they helped the reader to understand Dumbledore better they give us a sense of him as a vulnerable man ,not just as the wise old man who has the plan and all the answers.
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4. Why do you think Dumbledore and Grindelwald were friends? How did Dumbledore's homosexuality affect his susceptibility to Grindelwald's ideas?
The two were like minded boys/young men who shared great ideas about leading the wizard world to greater things . I think it would have been easy for someone to fall for a person who shared their likes and desires ,their interests and ideas.
Dumbledore could have been swept off his feet by Grindelwald's shared passion, for conquest and domination of all of the wizard world ,and then the muggle world too.
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5. Was Dumbledore right to keep so many secrets from so many people? Was this secrecy because of his sister? Because of his own homosexuality?
I think that after what happened with his sister he wanted to keep everything bottled up inside that way it couldn't be used to hurt him.

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6. What do you think of Dumbledore's recognition of his own failings? His decision not to enter the Ministry?
I feel that he made a good choice for himself . He knew that he couldn't handle political power so he avoided it .

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7. Do you think Dumbledore expected too much from Harry? Did he do the right thing? Was it fair to ask Harry to sacrifice himself?
Dumbledore needed Harry to become the tougher and better man than he was, one that could wield political power and make the hard life altering decisions ,that he had to do in order to defeat Voldemort.

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8. Does the revelation of his homosexuality ultimately affect his character? What actions, if any, do you see differently now?
To me Dumbledore being a homosexual does not alter who he was in the book . I see no difference in his actions.


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Old July 31st, 2014, 4:14 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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I feel that he made a good choice for himself . He knew that he couldn't handle political power so he avoided it .
Did he? He was part of the Wizengamot, after all, and he basically saved Snape when Death Eaters were getting sent to Azkaban left and right. Not to mention that he had the ear of the Minister of Magic. Let's not forget the Order of the Phoenix, a very political group. Just because Dumbledore wasn't a politician does not mean that he was apolitical, with no influence. He had a great deal of influence right through book 4. It wasn't until book 5, and the advent of Umbridge at Hogwarts, that he started to lose his standing in the Wizard world.


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Old August 2nd, 2014, 3:08 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

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Did he? He was part of the Wizengamot, after all, and he basically saved Snape when Death Eaters were getting sent to Azkaban left and right. Not to mention that he had the ear of the Minister of Magic. Let's not forget the Order of the Phoenix, a very political group. Just because Dumbledore wasn't a politician does not mean that he was apolitical, with no influence. He had a great deal of influence right through book 4. It wasn't until book 5, and the advent of Umbridge at Hogwarts, that he started to lose his standing in the Wizard world.
I agree that the Wizengamot had political aspects, although it was basically a judicial body. However I don't think the Order can be categorized as political. The aim was to defeat Voldemort whom they saw as a threat to wizarding life as they knew it. They weren't aiming to get control of the government in the end.


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Old August 8th, 2014, 7:43 am
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

Dumbledore was asked to be the MoM more than once . I believe that he turned it down because it would have been too tempting to him, to put into place some of the ideas that he and Grindelwald had shared as teens . Being head of Hogwarts did give him a degree of power and influence but there were checks in place to keep him from implementing the Wizard first ideas he had shared with Grindelwald as a teen.


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  #1051  
Old August 9th, 2014, 3:59 pm
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Re: Albus Dumbledore: Character Analysis v2

I don't think Dumbledore was worried that he would start implementing his old ideas with Grindelwald. However, his attitude of "the greater good" still existed. I think he was concerned that he would focus too much on the big picture and not be bothered too much by collateral effects.

When Harry says that Dumbledore would have done better job than Fudge, I think Dumbledore was concerned with what plans he might have come up with if he had the resources of the Ministry.


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