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The Malfoys, evil or not?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 17th, 2007, 9:26 am
Wright1771  Undisclosed.gif Wright1771 is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Well, not so much now. I mean, Lucius seems to have lost the will to live....yes, he'll get better, but at the present he'd best stay lost with Aurors hovering around known followers.
Narcissa on the other hand is just thrilled to have her family back, in one piece! She loved the power, the importance.....but didn't want the baggage that went with it. (the Dark Lord as a house guest!) She will be forever in debt to the trio saving Draco.
Draco....it took two bites of the cherry, to realise which side it was best to be on......I can't see him being a problem to anyone.


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  #22  
Old August 17th, 2007, 12:10 pm
SuzieLovesSnape  Female.gif SuzieLovesSnape is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I would say definately evil - but in a loveable kind of way.

And evil people can still love each other and care about their families...


  #23  
Old August 17th, 2007, 12:21 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by SuzieLovesSnape View Post
I would say definately evil - but in a loveable kind of way.

And evil people can still love each other and care about their families...
Well said!...I think pretty much the same...The Malfoys were ready to do LV's bidding but also protect their family and personal interests...(typical slytherins!)...But i think the Malfoys emerged beautifully in the DH as normal humans who care for their family rather than power-hungry/LV supporting morons they have been through out the series!


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  #24  
Old August 17th, 2007, 1:22 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

They are evil in the sense of that they care only for themselves. But they are not evil in the way of Voldemort for whom a live (apart from his own) has no value. We saw him kill Cedric only because he was in his way. The Malfoys (especially Narcissa) used their knowledge about the still living Harry for their own advantage, to save their son. If she was evil like Voldemort, she had told him about Harry.
The only ones I can see that are evil like Voldemort are Bellatrix and Greyback.


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  #25  
Old August 17th, 2007, 3:38 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I don't think that the Malfoys are pure evil. Lucius and Narcissa were probably taught by their families that pure-bloods are the best, and that anyone else was beneath them. Those beliefs, which were passed on to Draco, were probably what influenced them to join Voldemort. There is one major difference between the Malfoys and other Death Eaters like Bellatrix - they have the ability to love. The Malfoys obviously care for each other, and Draco evidently shows that he also cares for his friends as well. This fact, I think, is what makes the Malfoys not entirely evil.

That being said, I know that the Malfoys are not perfect little angels either. They have done some pretty nasty things.


  #26  
Old August 17th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

The only truly evil person we've seen is Voldemort. He can't love, but the Malfoys can as they display their love for each other, so they're not evil. You can be bad without being evil. I think they were more looking for a place to fit in where they could belong, but they weren't as bad as they were often made out to be.


  #27  
Old August 17th, 2007, 10:40 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I don't think they are evil. Ruthless, prejudiced, racist, yes, absolutely. But we have seen their human side, too. Draco is not a cold-blooded murderer and his mother risks her life to get to her son. The Malfoys love each other. They are the product of a corrupted society but in my opinion, this does not make them evil.


  #28  
Old August 17th, 2007, 10:54 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Lucius yes, but not to the same extent as Bellatrix, Draco and Narcissa, no.


  #29  
Old February 1st, 2010, 8:08 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Moriath View Post
I don't think they are evil. Ruthless, prejudiced, racist, yes, absolutely. But we have seen their human side, too. Draco is not a cold-blooded murderer and his mother risks her life to get to her son. The Malfoys love each other. They are the product of a corrupted society but in my opinion, this does not make them evil.
With a few exceptions I agree with your statement . Lucius is all of what you said. But because he set the diary onto a little girl not knowing just how it would effect her but knowing it would lead to the release of the Basilisk, I would say that he is/was Evil.
They all willingly served Voldemort because they thought he would give them the power and influence over others that they felt they deserved as Pure Bloods . It was I feel only after they saw just how far Voldemort wanted them to go that Narcissa & Draco got wet feet and decided that following him was a mistake . So I feel that Lucius was Evil but his wife and son were not.


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  #30  
Old February 1st, 2010, 11:06 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by twinsrule26 View Post
With a few exceptions I agree with your statement . Lucius is all of what you said. But because he set the diary onto a little girl not knowing just how it would effect her but knowing it would lead to the release of the Basilisk, I would say that he is/was Evil.
They all willingly served Voldemort because they thought he would give them the power and influence over others that they felt they deserved as Pure Bloods . It was I feel only after they saw just how far Voldemort wanted them to go that Narcissa & Draco got wet feet and decided that following him was a mistake . So I feel that Lucius was Evil but his wife and son were not.
Besides when Voldemort got defeated the first time they said they were confunded or something similar but as soon as he came back Lucius changed sides again and to me that shows that if Voldemort had been able to come back or if someone else with the same ideas would rise they would again be behind this man or woman.To me that makes them evil.I would say that his son was too his problem was that he was also a coward.


  #31  
Old February 1st, 2010, 11:28 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Nandi View Post
Besides when Voldemort got defeated the first time they said they were confunded or something similar but as soon as he came back Lucius changed sides again and to me that shows that if Voldemort had been able to come back or if someone else with the same ideas would rise they would again be behind this man or woman.To me that makes them evil.I would say that his son was too his problem was that he was also a coward.
I agree. I don't understand why people see the Malfoys, especially Narcissa, in such a positive light. This woman married a man who made it his life's mission to support and facilitate mass murders against all people he considered inferior to himself. She lovingly supported him while he murdered and tortured on Voldemort's and by extension his own's behalf. Neither Lucius nor Narcissa show any regret for what they did and the only reason they help Harry is because Voldemort is back stabbing them by threatening Draco. Narcissa isn't in my opinion at all morally superior to Umbridge, Greyback, Lucius or even Bellatrix. She may not have been the one to torture Hermione into oblivion but she stood idly by and watched without even cringing. Her only problem was that Bellatrix was giving orders in her house. The wholempart about torture of people and other magical creatures and the confiment of an innocent young girl in her basement didn't bother her one bit. The person who supports a killer is just as bad as the killer himself and in our world Narcissa would be nothing short of an accesory to murder and torture. She didn't turn against Voldemort because she found him and his actions morally deplorable, only because he had it in for Draco. I cannot but agree with Harry that she deserves her place in Azkaban and don't understand why JKR let the Malfoys off so easily. I hope we weren't supposed to find them sympathetic though.


  #32  
Old February 1st, 2010, 12:22 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I wouldn't call them evil but many of their actions certainly have been. They are corrupt, bigoted, cruel, selfish, and cowardly however!

But they do show that they care about each other - Narcissa helping Harry so she can find out about Draco, Lucius choosing to look his for son rather than fight. Draco shows that he cares about his friends - trying to protect the Stunned!Goyle from the Fiendfyre and making sure the Trio grabs Goyle before boarding the broom. And that's something.

Quote:
She lovingly supported him while he murdered and
While he has tortured people - like the Muggles in GoF - and has been accessory to many crimes including murder, we don't know that's he's actually committed murder. This is a very controversial view regarding Lucius, I know. I could easily be persuaded either way myself but I think fans imagine him to be more hardcore than he actually. In fact, I think he was very similar to Draco in talking a lot of smack but not being able to back it up.

I think it's telling that JKR doesn't allow him to have a wand in DH thus rendering him incapable of causing too much harm, he's not included in some of the more notorious crimes like the torture of the Longbottoms or the murders of any Order members and even his worst crime in the books - giving Ginny that diary - was something he did without knowing the destruction it would cause (I'm not sure that would have stopped him, tbh, but maybe only because Draco was at the school while the Basilisk was wandering around) but out of petty revenge.

This isn't to excuse anything he's done but just to say that he's not really a cool, calculating, menacing villain. He's quite a buffoonish character, when you get down to it. Something of a vain idiot like his son and seems more interested in playing Death Eater and in having scary "friends" that can be used to intimidate people than anything else. The apple didn't fall far from the tree there.


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Last edited by birdi86; February 1st, 2010 at 12:32 pm.
  #33  
Old February 1st, 2010, 12:27 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Nandi View Post
To me that makes them evil.I would say that his son was too his problem was that he was also a coward.
I presume you are suggesting Draco did not murder Albus because of Draco's supposed "cowardice"?

In the Tower scene, Draco believed that if he did not murder Albus, he and Narcissa would both be killed by Voldemort. And yet, he did not follow through even though, having disarmed Albus, he had the perfect opportunity to save his own fortunes and those of his mother.

I would also point out that in DH, Draco attemped to save Goyle from the Fiendfyre. This prevented him from being able to run away from it, since it is rather difficult to move quickly while dragging around a dead weight the size of Goyle. This, also, suggests to be Draco was not a coward.


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  #34  
Old February 1st, 2010, 12:53 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Trixa View Post
I hope we weren't supposed to find them sympathetic though.
Yes, we were. Back stories were given for a reason, and sympathizing with a character doesn't necessarily mean you emulate all the values/actions it represents. It simply means that you are able, and willing, to walk the proverbial mile in anyone's shoes.

And unless the whole 'love is the greatest magic' theme was meant as a hypocritical sneer in the face of readers, there are very few characters we were not supposed to see as ultimately not purely 'evil'.

But back to the topic...

IMO, the Malfoys' greatest flaw is that they're essentially self-centered - it's not LV they support, but his dogma of Pureblood supremacy (unlike Bellatrix, who supports the leader behind the policy) and their own status in the society... actual, or LV's proposed 'new'. It is that... narcissism, if you will, that prompts them into 'active service', IMO. They don't really strike me as characters who enjoy getting their hands dirty per se.

Mind you, I'm not saying they would have been saints had there not been LV. But I tend to agree with Moriath's description - corrupt and prejudiced, yes, but fundamentally the product of their social strata rather than some innate criminal intent.


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  #35  
Old February 1st, 2010, 1:07 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
While he has tortured people - like the Muggles in GoF - and has been accessory to many crimes including murder, we don't know that's he's actually committed murder.
We don't know but in my opinion that's irrelevant. He had no moral qualms about either murder or torture and he knowingly supported an organization whose aim was to commit massmurder. That is enough for me to consider both him and his wife evil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggerstone
Yes, we were. Back stories were given for a reason, and sympathizing with a character doesn't necessarily mean you emulate all the values/actions it represents. It simply means that you are able, and willing, to walk the proverbial mile in anyone's shoes.
I can feel sympathy for characters with normal human flaws like jealousy, pettiness, anger, spite, etc but when it comes to murder and torture my sympathy stops. If Draco had died I would have felt sorry for him but not for his parents. Because after all, it would have been a case of getting as good as you gave. How many parents didn't almost lose their children because of Lucius, Narcissa and other people like them, who while they may not have engaged in torture and other nastiness themselves, actively (or passively) supported those who did. No shades of grey here, in my opinion.


  #36  
Old February 1st, 2010, 1:42 pm
Christopherowan  Male.gif Christopherowan is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

The Malfoys did what was best for them. Lucius chose to bid with the Dark Lord in the beginning because he believed that Voldemort would be in power for a long time. Once Voldemort disappeared, Lucius claimed it was a mistake. Once Voldemort returned he changed sides again. Narcissa was not, she was just making life easy by agreeing with Lucius. However you see that she is loving and caring when her son is "chosen" to kill Dumbledore. Draco was brought up in a house of arrogance and hate.


  #37  
Old February 1st, 2010, 2:12 pm
Nandi  Undisclosed.gif Nandi is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Christopherowan View Post
The Malfoys did what was best for them. Lucius chose to bid with the Dark Lord in the beginning because he believed that Voldemort would be in power for a long time. Once Voldemort disappeared, Lucius claimed it was a mistake. Once Voldemort returned he changed sides again. Narcissa was not, she was just making life easy by agreeing with Lucius. However you see that she is loving and caring when her son is "chosen" to kill Dumbledore. Draco was brought up in a house of arrogance and hate.
I might agree that Narcissa is just being a loyal wife and Draco just the product of Lucius prejudiced ideas yet at least Narcissa could think for herself too so i am not sure.But Lucius at heart is bad.


  #38  
Old February 1st, 2010, 6:33 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Trixa View Post
We don't know but in my opinion that's irrelevant. He had no moral qualms about either murder or torture and he knowingly supported an organization whose aim was to commit massmurder. That is enough for me to consider both him and his wife evil.


I can feel sympathy for characters with normal human flaws like jealousy, pettiness, anger, spite, etc but when it comes to murder and torture my sympathy stops. If Draco had died I would have felt sorry for him but not for his parents. Because after all, it would have been a case of getting as good as you gave. How many parents didn't almost lose their children because of Lucius, Narcissa and other people like them, who while they may not have engaged in torture and other nastiness themselves, actively (or passively) supported those who did. No shades of grey here, in my opinion.


The Malfoys loved each other, I am sure, but that does not make okay the murder and torture of other people's children that they participated in of their own free will.


  #39  
Old February 1st, 2010, 6:47 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

As for Narcissa tolerating all sorts of crime being committed in her house, I think the initial chapter of DH gave us quite a bit of page time specifically for her situation and state of mind for a reason - the reason being, in my opinion, to show that she was very, very afraid. She was shown to be helpless and worn with worry and fear. Fearing for one's life and one's family's lives can make people stay silent where they "should" have spoken out. DH gives the Malfoys more humanity than all previous books together, and I'm kind of sad that the complexities and layers going with it can be lost on readers.


  #40  
Old February 1st, 2010, 6:54 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
As for Narcissa tolerating all sorts of crime being committed in her house, I think the initial chapter of DH gave us quite a bit of page time specifically for her situation and state of mind for a reason - the reason being, in my opinion, to show that she was very, very afraid. She was shown to be helpless and worn with worry and fear. Fearing for one's life and one's family's lives can make people stay silent where they "should" have spoken out. DH gives the Malfoys more humanity than all previous books together, and I'm kind of sad that the complexities and layers going with it can be lost on readers.
I was thinking more about CoS and GoF, before Voldemort is back. Lucius seems quite willing to commit what I see as atrocoious acts, and Narcissa presumably backs him up as his good wife, all of their own volition. Once Voldemort is back, to me they seem sorry that they are the ones suffering. but I do not see that as the same as being sorry for having caused other people suffering.


 
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