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The Malfoys, evil or not?



 
 
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  #201  
Old March 7th, 2010, 7:23 pm
Nandi  Undisclosed.gif Nandi is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
The point is that just because he did those evil things means that he must be labeled as an evil person for the rest of his life. There's always a chance of going back. That's a point I think the author intended to make very clear. In Harry's last duel with Voledmort (who lost 7/8 parts of his soul) he was still offered the chance of going back.
As for the Malfoys they saw the chance but wavered in taking it. Which refers to the fact that the 'going up' in evil deeds is much easier than 'going back' the same way. Not all people are capable of taking the way back. Snape did and so did Regulus. And IMO, even the Malfoys tried to go back. Maybe the difference is that they thought they'd gone too far to go back, as Draco has said it on the tower -he was surprised that after doing a lot of evil deeds and harming his fellow students, Dumbledore was offering him safety and forgiveness. IMO, of course.
The Malfoys were less brave then Snape or Regulus and they have not been hurt as deep as the other two.There are levels of evilness.Barty J.R. killed his father and so did Voldemort that would Lucius never do.But he did not care about anyone else ending up dead.


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  #202  
Old March 7th, 2010, 7:58 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I don't think that bravery has any relation to evil. Some evil acts would require more bravery than nobel ones.

And they may not have been hurt like the other too. But much more scared and threatened.

I don't defend or condemn their behaviour in the past. I just think that someone who has taken the way back should not bf named evil.


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  #203  
Old March 7th, 2010, 10:43 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
I don't think that bravery has any relation to evil. Some evil acts would require more bravery than nobel ones.

And they may not have been hurt like the other too. But much more scared and threatened.

I don't defend or condemn their behaviour in the past. I just think that someone who has taken the way back should not bf named evil.
How, have the Malfoys taken the way back though? Just defended your kid doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how they have done anything positive for anyone other than themselves.


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  #204  
Old March 8th, 2010, 3:49 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Dobby_26 View Post
How, have the Malfoys taken the way back though? Just defended your kid doesn't mean anything. I just don't see how they have done anything positive for anyone other than themselves.
Personally I saw the way Narcissa risked everything by lying to Voledmort as a good deed. She wanted to see her son, yes. But that made all the difference. The DEs marched to the school with the belief that Harry is dead. And of course you know the rest. .
She was motivated by love, and that was portrayed as a good thing in the book.
But of course she was somewhat selfish, limiting this love to her son and family. .


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  #205  
Old March 8th, 2010, 7:38 am
Nandi  Undisclosed.gif Nandi is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by bellatrix93 View Post
Personally I saw the way Narcissa risked everything by lying to Voledmort as a good deed. She wanted to see her son, yes. But that made all the difference. The DEs marched to the school with the belief that Harry is dead. And of course you know the rest. .
She was motivated by love, and that was portrayed as a good thing in the book.
But of course she was somewhat selfish, limiting this love to her son and family. .
Her motivation was primarily to help herself not to help harry the fact someone loves and is being loved does not automatically makes them not evil.


  #206  
Old April 5th, 2010, 5:25 pm
siriusblack55  Undisclosed.gif siriusblack55 is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Ok people. Open your eyes. Draco tried to kill Hermione. And tey cared for eachoter, not anyone else. And they were scared of being caught.


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  #207  
Old April 5th, 2010, 5:41 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

There's not enough "no" in the world to that.


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  #208  
Old April 5th, 2010, 5:45 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I dont think they were all good, but they were'nt all bad either. Maybe Narcissa and Draco were the only ones that were half decent too. there's just too many ways to look at it.


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  #209  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:28 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

I think this depends on one's own definition of evil. For me to think any one person is evil, they'd have to do some seriously bad stuff...and a lot of it, without any understandable reason.

The Malfoys do some bad stuff, especially Lucius, but I don't think they quite make my definition of evil people. They do evil deeds, but they have some humanity within them and their motives are shown reasonably well.

In terms of the story, I think they're there to point out that love is something everyone feels, and that not everyone's a clear-cut "good guy" or "bad guy." IMHO, Lucius' and Narcissa's love for their son is just as important to the central theme as the other examples of parental love we see-- they highlight the power of human emotion. So while the Malfoys do some terrible things, I don't believe they're meant to be seen as evil people.


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  #210  
Old April 5th, 2010, 6:43 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
I think this depends on one's own definition of evil. For me to think any one person is evil, they'd have to do some seriously bad stuff...and a lot of it, without any understandable reason.

The Malfoys do some bad stuff, especially Lucius, but I don't think they quite make my definition of evil people. They do evil deeds, but they have some humanity within them and their motives are shown reasonably well.

In terms of the story, I think they're there to point out that love is something everyone feels, and that not everyone's a clear-cut "good guy" or "bad guy." IMHO, Lucius' and Narcissa's love for their son is just as important to the central theme as the other examples of parental love we see-- they highlight the power of human emotion. So while the Malfoys do some terrible things, I don't believe they're meant to be seen as evil people.
I agree with this.

That pretty much summarizes my point of view, as well.


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  #211  
Old April 5th, 2010, 7:51 pm
Nandi  Undisclosed.gif Nandi is offline
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Just cause the Malfoys are able to feel love for their son does not mean they aren't bad.A lot of very nasty characters during world war II had wives and children and loved them that did not make them good people.


  #212  
Old April 5th, 2010, 8:15 pm
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by Nandi View Post
Just cause the Malfoys are able to feel love for their son does not mean they aren't bad.A lot of very nasty characters during world war II had wives and children and loved them that did not make them good people.
I think the point for some, certanly for me, is that bad and evil are two very different things


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  #213  
Old April 6th, 2010, 2:14 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
I think this depends on one's own definition of evil. For me to think any one person is evil, they'd have to do some seriously bad stuff...and a lot of it, without any understandable reason.

The Malfoys do some bad stuff, especially Lucius, but I don't think they quite make my definition of evil people. They do evil deeds, but they have some humanity within them and their motives are shown reasonably well.
Like I've said previously how many evil deeds tips the scale and makes an evil person? For me, the Malfoys did enough evil to qualify them as evil people. Their motives were shown reasonably well like you said; but their motives were discriminatory and in the name of tyranny based on blood-status. Not the best qualities. So, for me, they're evil because they did enough evil acts for evil motives. Plain and simple.


  #214  
Old April 6th, 2010, 3:54 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Puttin' in my 2 cents worth.

Let's look at choices and motivations.

Lucious Malfoy.
1. Planted the diary of Tom Riddle on an 11 year old girl, knowing that the most likely result would be the deaths of innocents for ploitical gain and the chance to derail a law to protect muggles from magical harm/injury/interference.
2. Joined the DE's and stayed until V was defeated by the backfiring curse. Immediatly renounced his affiliation with V to stay out of trouble. As soon as V came back he returned to him and followed orders until his imprisonment.
3. Allowed his home to become V's headquarters. Although to be fair he may not have had much choice in that. I doubt he could've said no and lived.
4. Abandoned the battle to look for his son, not because he had changed sides, because his son's safety was more important than V's victory.
Narcissa Malfoy.
1. Wife of a DE and possibly one herself. (Not sure if it was ever stated one way or the other)
2. Follower of V until she was forced to make a choice between protecting her son or following V's orders.
3. Disobeyed V's orders to contact Snape, not because she felt that killing DD was wrong, or as a way to switch sides. She did it because she did not think Draco would succeed and wanted to prevent his punnishment/execution? for failing. For proof I offer the unbreakable vow. She made Snape vow to kill DD for her son to prevent his failure. DD's death didn't trouble her, only Draco's future.
4. Lied to V in the forest, not to save Harry, but to get a chance to look for and possibly save her son.
Draco Malfoy
1. Wished for muggle borns, specifically Hermione, to be killed by Slytherin's heir.
2. Professed a desire to help Slytherin's heir in their work.
3. Agreed to be a DE at age 16 and accepted a mission to kill an innocent man.
4. Tried unsuccessfully to kill DD and nearly caused two deaths with his feeble attempts.
5. Spent a lot of time crying because he was scared he and his family would die. I don't recall hearing about any tears for Katie or Ron, his two unintended victims.
6. Failed to correctly identify Harry, Ron, and Hermione when they were captured for two reasons IMO. He was sickened by the deaths he had been exposed to and he was scared that V would come back if he identified them. Nothing more than fear.
7. Stayed back as the school was evacuated to try to help the DE's and V defeat Harry in hopes of regaining V's favor.
8. After being saved by Harry in the room of requirement he still tried to identify himself as on the DE's side during the battle. In all fairness though, he was trying to avoid being killed by a DE.

Maybe I have a different definition of the word evil than some. To me, all 3 qualify. It is certainly possible that after the battle all three of them showed true remorse and great sorrow, but all we saw of them indicated that they had only quit to save themselves, not to switch sides. Quitting when the battle is lost or when the price becomes higher than you are willing to pay is hardly the same thing as coming over to the side of good.


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Last edited by chaosman; April 6th, 2010 at 3:57 am.
  #215  
Old April 6th, 2010, 4:00 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Ah, the Malfoys. Such a pleasant family. (Not.) However malicious they may be, especially since all three of them were Death Eaters (was Narcissa? She was, wasn't she?), but I do not believe they are truly evil. For one, Draco never killed anyone, and we can clearly see his hesitaion at the end of HBP. Lucius and Narcissa bail at the end of DH and I don't believe either of them have killed anyone either. (Possibly Lucius at the Hogwarts battle in DH but I'm not sure) They abandoned Voldemort for their son and are simply followers, and not truly bewitched by Voldemort as Bellatrix obviously is. Bellatrix is the evil one in my opinion. I like to believe that the Malfoys changed their ways a little after DH. They were a wealthy family that enjoyed looking down on Muggle-borns, and were quite unpleasant, but not evil IMO.


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Old April 6th, 2010, 4:51 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nandi View Post
The Malfoys were less brave then Snape or Regulus and they have not been hurt as deep as the other two.There are levels of evilness.Barty J.R. killed his father and so did Voldemort that would Lucius never do.But he did not care about anyone else ending up dead.
but let us not forget that Lucius did try to kill Harry, but Dobby stopped him in the act. you can hear the first two syllibals of avada kedavra when he whips his wand out of his cane at the end of cos. no, its not his father, but come one its the protagonist!


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  #217  
Old April 6th, 2010, 5:41 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

That only happens in the movies, not the books.


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  #218  
Old April 6th, 2010, 5:46 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by pigtheadhdowl View Post
but let us not forget that Lucius did try to kill Harry, but Dobby stopped him in the act. you can hear the first two syllibals of avada kedavra when he whips his wand out of his cane at the end of cos. no, its not his father, but come one its the protagonist!
As far as we know thats only in the movies which i consider **** however you won't find me telling someone Lucius is not evil i just agreed with someone you have levels of evil but i see the Malfoys as evil if not as evil as Voldemort Crouch or Bellatrix


  #219  
Old April 6th, 2010, 5:47 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

Howdy Pards,


Misguided. Lucius was the cause of Draco's behavior much the same as his father had no doubt been the cause of his.

Old...outdated...wrong ideas were the basis of everything Lucius believed. His belief that only purebloods deserved to exist, combined with his arrogance, and obvious lack of good judgement...caused him to get deeper and deeper into a hole.

Voldemort was evil. Pure evil. And you don't pick up good habits by hangin' with the devil.

Dumbledore gave specific instructions to Snape...specifically for the reason of saving Draco's soul. Yes, I believe that Dumbledore...

1. Knew he was going to die anyway and he did not in any way fear death.

2. Knew, because Snape told him, that Draco had been given the task of killing Dumbledore. And, it was Dumbledore's firm belief that Draco could not bring himself to do it because there was good in Draco.

3. Knew that Voldemort was using that situation to humiliate Lucius.

4. Knew that Professor Snape could save Draco by doing the task himself...

5. And Dumbledore knew that Harry Potter alone could bring an end to Voldemort. Dumbledore, who knew he was going to die anyway, felt the time and the reasons were right...so he made Professor Snape promise to do what needed to be done.

Now, we learned much about Dumbledore's wisdom when tears came to Draco's eyes in that Astronomy tower and his wand began to shake.

Lucius was not dumb. He feared Voldemort and he knew he was being set up. Draco did NOT want to kill Dumbledore...could not...even though he knew both his father and mother and himself were in danger if he did not.

Mrs. Malfoy feared Voldemort too...feared for her husband and feared for her son. She sought Snape's help.

Lucius found himself much too close to pure evil. I do not believe any of the three Malfoys had understood the true nature of Voldemort. Given what they saw and began to understand fully...they chose family over evil. You could argue that that was selfish I suppose...but it was also common sense. Lessons...hard lessons...were being learned.

Yes...the Malfoys had done evil acts...but the motivation for what they did was the misguided beliefs about "pure bloods"...the arrogance and ignorance of bigotry.

Mrs. Malfoy's motivation for going to Snape was to save her son...and to save her husband. Lucius had had enough of Voldemort...of the threats against him and his family. Lucius was not dumb. But his own mistakes had put him and his family too close to pure evil.

I believe Lucius, his wife, and son learned some very, very hard lessons.

Were the Malfoy's evil? No...no...I don't believe they were. They were wrong. Misguided. Stupid, perhaps... but they were not evil on the level of Voldemort...or Bellatrix for that matter. They did, in fact, do evil things...born of misguided arrogance and bigotry...but, in those few minutes in the Astronomy Tower we came to see the wisdom of Professor Dumbledore as it relates to Draco...and, perhaps, the entire Malfoy family. Lucius and the entire Malfoy family were without question relieved when Harry got rid of Voldemort. Only then could the nightmare be over.

I believe that Harry Potter was respected by the Malfoys for bringing that terrible nightmare to an end. Did they learn any lessons? ...Well, I'd say yes... yes...I believe they did.

Should they have been punished for the things that they had done? Perhaps...but who was going to press those charges? Harry? No. The Weasleys? No. In the end the Malfoys played an important role in the end of Voldemort. They were clearly no longer loyal to him... they had learned a valuable lesson... truly, they had seen the error of their ways. Evil was, indeed, evil.

Adios for now. Talk to ya on down the trail.

Wild Ol' Dan


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Last edited by WildOldDan; April 6th, 2010 at 12:59 pm.
  #220  
Old April 6th, 2010, 5:52 am
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Re: The Malfoys, evil or not?

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Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
That only happens in the movies, not the books.
Right. But Lucius had every intention of killing Ginny and any other innocent students at Hogwarts who got in the way of the Basilisk. Lucius also would not have hesitated to kill any one of the students who went to the MoM with Harry in OotP. Just because he never tried to use Avada Kedavra on Harry doesn't mean he wouldn't have tried to kill him through other methods, because we know that he (and his son) would have killed many innocent people (Ginny, Katie Bell, Ron, Dumbledore, any other people who got in the way of the Basilisk).


 
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