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Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis



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  #101  
Old March 24th, 2011, 4:52 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Also, Death Eaters don't wear pink so that was probably a deciding factor for her.
LOL--and there's that pesky Dark Mark--now if had been a nice little tattoo of a kitten or something, she might have gone for it...


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  #102  
Old March 24th, 2011, 5:45 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I don't think Voldemort wanted her as a DE. He kept his inner circle pretty limited. Umbridge reminded me of Sirius' mom, vile and nasty.


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Old May 22nd, 2011, 6:55 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

I don't think she is a DE. She supports the Minister of Magic because she believes he is right because of his position. She is power hungry but would never support Voldemort because it would damage her reputation among the wizarding community.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

I think she made Harry angrier and her nasty behaviour helped him to control his emotions. I don't think she handled her duties well. She is a nasty piece of work.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

I think she is loyal to Scrimgeour. She reminds me of Percy slightly. Her loyalty lies within the Ministry and so supports the current Minister.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

Mundungas Fletcher. It didn't have the same impact because she was evil. I don't think she knew what the locket really was.


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  #104  
Old September 15th, 2011, 2:58 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Just a reminder that character bashing is not allowed. Please familiarize yourself with this thread:

REVISED: Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray


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  #105  
Old September 15th, 2011, 7:32 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

How about this?

Filch is to Umbridge as Umbridge is to Voldemort.

By "is to," I mean "is less purely evil than but gladly accepts and works for ______as a means to propagate their own nasty views and satisfy their sadistic desires."


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  #106  
Old September 15th, 2011, 9:50 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by MCDahB View Post
How about this?

Filch is to Umbridge as Umbridge is to Voldemort.

By "is to," I mean "is less purely evil than but gladly accepts and works for ______as a means to propagate their own nasty views and satisfy their sadistic desires."
Though Umbridge is portrayed as a sadist, and many fans despise her for her actions in the series, I never hear many people complain about Filch. In my opinion, he was just as sadistic, and delightedly carried out harsh punishments during Umbridge's regime at Hogwarts. I would not call these two characters pure evil, nor would I say that Umbridge was worse than Filch, but they are the common, everyday workers who look for ways to rise up in society. They are a very human evil while Voldemort is an inhuman evil. I don't think Umbridge can be compared to Voldemort in terms of "evil" because Umbridge is still human, while Voldemort is not.


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  #107  
Old September 29th, 2011, 10:10 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Truthfully, in some ways, I think Umbridge is more evil than Voldemort. Voldy at least was very open about what he was and what he wanted. Umbridge hid behind the Ministry and behind the law as a "good" person. But her actions didn't portray her as a good person. I don't think she was uniformly evil, and I certainly think the locket affected her and twisted her, but we never really get to see the ways in which she's a normal person. In OotP, she's only shown as the DADA teacher and High Inquisitor, who acts very nastily toward anyone who doesn't agree the Dark Lord hasn't returned. There's no way to say using a blood quill on school children is ok. So I'm sure she does have good qualities as well, but from the viewpoint we're allowed, we don't get to see them very well. Very few people are unequivocally evil after all.

I think Filch, too, by the way, slides under the radar, but he acts pretty nastily himself. It's understandable in a way, because here he is surrounded by children who can do magic while he can't, but I don't think that was the right job for him.


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  #108  
Old September 29th, 2011, 2:58 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

Compared to Riddle, Umbridge is the perfect definition of Lawful Evil - she's incredibly selfish and is perfectly willing to abuse the law to further her own ends. No, I don't think she was a Death Eater at the time of Order of the Phoenix, but given how she was acting in Deathly Hallows, I wouldn't have been surprised if there'd been the tattoo on her arm by the Muggleborn Breakout of 1997. In any event, her actions (or lack thereof) were strongly supportive of both Riddle's crusade against Potter as well as the general Anti-Muggle sentiment that British Wizards seemed to generally have as late as the late 1990s.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

Aside from the D.A. and its direct effects, no. There were two reasons that Umbridge had been installed at Hogwarts - to spy on Dumbledore and to prevent the students from rebelling against the Ministry. She excelled in those rather well, but she was not a teacher - she didn't even teach them theory!

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

Dolores Umbridge is the perfect example of a Lawful Evil Flunky - she'll serve whoever's in charge to the best of her abilities, and if she can bend the laws to cement her position, then all the better for her and the worse for us. For example, the Cruciatus Discussion in OotP - she was perfectly willing to risk Fudge dropping her like a sack of rotten potatoes in order to get information that would have ensured Fudge's re-election (or ousting, had Veritaserum been actually used). She kept her head down in HBP and didn't cause too much trouble for Scrimgeour, and in Deathly Hallows she was charged with the execution (pardon the pun) of the Muggle-Born Registration Commission. She does her job well specifically because it means she can stay in power.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

I'm working with the assumption that the following was after Dumbledore's Death. Mundungus Fletcher was selling random useless defensive wares in Knockturn Alley one day, and Dolores decided to cite him. Instead of taking him to Azkaban or fining him a zillion Galleons, however, she took a liking to a shiny bauble that she assumed had been stolen from a pureblood. From there, Riddlocket was playing on her past memories of the mudblood that destroyed her position of power at Hogwarts. It's really not that much of a leap to assume that the locket only exaggerated feelings that DU was already having. As to why it didn't have the same impact on the Trio, or even Dung Fletcher for that matter, it's because those four are fundamentally good people, with no anti-Muggle prejudices already in effect - while I'm sure that the Orodruin Principle (contact with evil artifacts will eventually corrupt the holders of the artifacts) still applies, it would have taken much longer for Harry to have gone Anti-Muggle than it would have taken Dolores Umbridge because Umbridge was already leaning towards being a controlling censored.


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  #109  
Old November 11th, 2011, 1:54 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I think Delores' loyalty was to the Ministry no matter who was in charge. Now, in my opinion, that's not an honorable characteristic, but a self perservatory thing with her. She loves having "The Power". Nothing is going to stand in her way, even if people get hurt. There is also a sadistic streak in this woman. She presents herself as a "nicey nice" type of person, but soon the sinister undertones become more visible. She enjoys having control over others, such as children, who are not apt to fight back, or captured Muggleborns, who, wandless, are unable to defend themselves. My impression is a weak individual hiding behind an office of power. Without her office she wouldn't have power over anyone. She wouldn't be anything much, and she knows it. And, like some others have said, I think her taking the locket from Mundungus had the motive behind it of using this Wizarding heirloom to claim pureblood ancestry, which I am beginning to believe she didn't have. I think she was so wicked, that the horcrux/locket would not have any noticeable effect on her, and that she herself wouldn't have noticed.

I don't think she would have been a Death-Eater, I think she would prefer to be the one in the control seat, though of course on a smaller scale. What mattered was her having the power over others in her own small world. Though her actions did further Lord Voldemort's agenda, no doubt.

I have a question myself: Did Umbridge ever actually know who was pulling the strings at the Ministry of Magic when Voldemort took over?


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  #110  
Old November 12th, 2011, 1:01 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by GrimeldaDursley View Post
I have a question myself: Did Umbridge ever actually know who was pulling the strings at the Ministry of Magic when Voldemort took over?
Hmm...I don't think she knew or cared, for that matter. I think she's a xenophobe, and like Lucius Malfoy would prefer to stay within a society composed entirely of upper-class Purebloods. Anything that serves to separate and elevate her and her cohort from the hoi polloi is preferable.

As such, I do not think that she would have supported whoever was Minister. I suspect she would have found Dumbledore's views on social justice almost abhorrent, if he had become Minister. But while Voldemort was pulling the strings, she agreed with the prevailing policy, and so had no problem putting her full weight behind executing that policy. It also worked while Scrimgeour was Minister, because the brand of paranoia he was selling exerted its greatest impact on the groups she was trying to distance herself from anyway.


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  #111  
Old November 25th, 2011, 8:06 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I'm not sure if Jo has ever addressed this but does anyone know which house Umbridge was sorted into. After re-watching OOTP my first reaction was that she had to be Slytherin simply because of how ambitious and power hungry she was, but for me it just didn't seem right for her. I'm thinking that maybe she was a Hufflepuff.

I know that she is cruel and twisted but Hufflepuff's are exemplified by four things to me: Their kindness, loyalty, sense of justice and hard work. Although she was cruel, whenever she dealt out punishment or spoke publicly she always seemed to try to appear kind and reasonable. She definitely had loyalty to Fudge and I feel, that although much of what she did was evil, she felt everything she did was justified to keep justice. Finally she must have been hard working to reach the position that high in the Ministry.


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  #112  
Old November 25th, 2011, 7:25 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by potter_gleek View Post
I'm not sure if Jo has ever addressed this but does anyone know which house Umbridge was sorted into. After re-watching OOTP my first reaction was that she had to be Slytherin simply because of how ambitious and power hungry she was, but for me it just didn't seem right for her. I'm thinking that maybe she was a Hufflepuff.

I know that she is cruel and twisted but Hufflepuff's are exemplified by four things to me: Their kindness, loyalty, sense of justice and hard work. Although she was cruel, whenever she dealt out punishment or spoke publicly she always seemed to try to appear kind and reasonable. She definitely had loyalty to Fudge and I feel, that although much of what she did was evil, she felt everything she did was justified to keep justice. Finally she must have been hard working to reach the position that high in the Ministry.
[staff edit]I cant imagine her in any other house but Slytherin simply because of her loathing of magical creatures n her pro wizard anti muggle attitude.


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  #113  
Old November 25th, 2011, 9:16 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

While I agree that she was probably a Slytherin, it wouldn't have been for her Wizard Supremacy views. You have to remember that the Sorting Hat can't see the future, just the present. It can see into how your mind is when you put it on, but it can't predict how things will turn out afterwards.

Having said that, The Toad's cunning and ambition alone would have made her a textbook Slytherin, and given the population and reputation of Slytherin House it likely... I can't think of the right word, but it increased those thoughts within her if they didn't already exist. A self-perpetuating reputation, I would think, but this isn't the place for that discussion.


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  #114  
Old November 25th, 2011, 9:50 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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[staff edit]I cant imagine her in any other house but Slytherin simply because of her loathing of magical creatures n her pro wizard anti muggle attitude.

But didn't Phineas Nigellus say that Snape was the first Slytherin Head since himself though. I just feel that just because she is prejudiced against "half-breeds" and "muggleborns" it doesn't necessarily make her a Slytherin. By the way a lot of Wizards talk there appears to be a subtle prejudice against creatures such as house elves, centaurs and 'half giants' anyway. Hagrid and Madam Maxime were both fearful of openly stating they had Giant relatives implying that most Wizards would still discriminate against them. Also once Snape revealed Lupin was a werewolf Dumbledore got many letter's from parents of students complaining.

I also get the feeling that Prejudice like this was also much more common place before the first Wizarding war, in the same was Racism was much more socially acceptable until around the 1960's in the Muggle world. If this was true there would have been people with these sorts of attitudes in all houses.

I also have an issue with the idea that just because someone's prejudice and cruel they are most likely Slytherin. I think that's the way the house appears simply because that's how Harry saw it and the book's were from his point of view. If we take out the preconception that Slytherins are all prejudiced, never something The Sorting Hat specifically states as a house trait, in my opinion it seem's to open the option for Umbridge up much more.


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  #115  
Old November 25th, 2011, 10:04 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by potter_gleek View Post
I'm not sure if Jo has ever addressed this but does anyone know which house Umbridge was sorted into. After re-watching OOTP my first reaction was that she had to be Slytherin simply because of how ambitious and power hungry she was, but for me it just didn't seem right for her. I'm thinking that maybe she was a Hufflepuff.

I know that she is cruel and twisted but Hufflepuff's are exemplified by four things to me: Their kindness, loyalty, sense of justice and hard work. Although she was cruel, whenever she dealt out punishment or spoke publicly she always seemed to try to appear kind and reasonable. She definitely had loyalty to Fudge and I feel, that although much of what she did was evil, she felt everything she did was justified to keep justice. Finally she must have been hard working to reach the position that high in the Ministry.
We weren't told which house she was in, and most likely won't know JKR's opinion until she adds the OotP book to Pottermore and fills us in on Umbridge's background.

I agree with you - I think she was in Hufflepuff.

Many Hufflepuffs have a caring, nurturing side, and I don't think those kitten plates and youthful pink decor are a "put-on," nor is her attempt at a kind demeanor or that high pitched, sugary voice. I think she really sees herself this way, although her behavior speaks otherwise. I also think justice is important to her, although she doesn't seem to be particularly adept at observing a situation without seeing it from the standpoint of the Ministry, which I believe stems from being very loyal to the Ministry - and loyalty is another Hufflepuff trait.


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  #116  
Old November 25th, 2011, 11:10 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I don't think Phineas considers DJU to have been a proper head; she was never allowed access to the Headmaster's Office, after all.


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Old March 24th, 2018, 2:01 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I guess I've been more out of the loop than I thought. A Facebook post about houses got me thinking about Umbridge. I looked up her house and Pottermore confirmed her house was Slytherin in 2012. As a Slytherin/Ravenclaw this disappointed me more than anything. I despise Umbridge more than any character but I never saw her as a Slytherin and to me it perpetuates the idea that all the really "bad" people in HP are Slytherins.

I had always thought, and secretly hoped, that Delores was a Hufflepuff.


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  #118  
Old March 25th, 2018, 5:27 pm
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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I guess I've been more out of the loop than I thought. A Facebook post about houses got me thinking about Umbridge. I looked up her house and Pottermore confirmed her house was Slytherin in 2012. As a Slytherin/Ravenclaw this disappointed me more than anything. I despise Umbridge more than any character but I never saw her as a Slytherin and to me it perpetuates the idea that all the really "bad" people in HP are Slytherins.

I had always thought, and secretly hoped, that Delores was a Hufflepuff.
Take heart. Peter Pettigrew was a Gryffindor.


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  #119  
Old March 26th, 2018, 6:46 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by Revaunch View Post
I guess I've been more out of the loop than I thought. A Facebook post about houses got me thinking about Umbridge. I looked up her house and Pottermore confirmed her house was Slytherin in 2012. As a Slytherin/Ravenclaw this disappointed me more than anything. I despise Umbridge more than any character but I never saw her as a Slytherin and to me it perpetuates the idea that all the really "bad" people in HP are Slytherins.

I had always thought, and secretly hoped, that Delores was a Hufflepuff.
Hufflepuffs value fair play and inclusiveness, and I doubt that Umbridge ever did.

Slytherins are cunning, shrewd, ambitious and have a strong sense of self-preservation. Sounds more like Delores, don't you think?


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  #120  
Old March 26th, 2018, 7:02 am
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Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

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Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Hufflepuffs value fair play and inclusiveness, and I doubt that Umbridge ever did.
Values can be corrupted to fit any ideology. Fair Play only for Wizards. Inclusiveness in your own race. There are many instances of government excluding people in the name of fair play and inclusiveness, imho.


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