Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:05 am
dchristen03  Female.gif dchristen03 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3327 days
Location: With Ron
Posts: 348
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

She is an evil hag, although nothing compared to Voldemort.

Quote:
Also, I don't think her treatment of Hary was because she thought it was for his own good. How is sending Dementors after someone for their own good, or torturing them by making them use that horrible quill? I think her treatment of Harry was because he was stirring up trouble for her beloved Ministry.
Well said.


__________________
Proud Gryffindor
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old July 29th, 2009, 11:51 pm
excusemydust  Undisclosed.gif excusemydust is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3359 days
Location: Level One, Ministry of Magic
Posts: 82
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?
I think that Dolores Umbridge's impact on Harry & co. is enormously powerful and carries a rather hefty message that is reinforced by the major themes present in Order of the Phoenix. In particular, Harry begins to reject authority figures in a rather pointed fashion beginning in this text and recognizes that the establishment, regardless of its intentions, is not always right. This is part of Harry's evolving perspective on adults throughout the series as noted in this piece by Elizabeth Dalton. Umbridge's controlling and dictatorial regime gives Harry a self-sufficiency that he doesn't possess in earlier novels, and it is one that serves him well in the far darker sixth and seventh books.

As for how she handles her "duties," I believe that Dolores is given a rather undeserved bad reputation. She is, probably, a sadistic person who seems to take pleasure in doling out "punishments" as she sees fit, which is reinforced in the seventh book, when I believe she has a post-it note on a poster of Harry that says "to be punished." However, her tunnel vision and means-justifying are somewhat common among bureaucrats who believe that they have the best interests of the people at heart when they take action. It is possible to argue whether she really does have the interests of the people in mind when she orders the dementors to Little Whinging or considers using the cruciatus curse on Harry, but I don't think we can really know for certain.


__________________


"I don't wonder you're shocked, Potter," said Madam Pomfrey, with a kind of fierce approval in her face. "As if one of them could have Stunned Minerva McGonagall face-on by daylight! Cowardice, that's what it was... despicable cowardice..."

"In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope." -President Obama
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old October 12th, 2009, 10:31 am
Nandi  Undisclosed.gif Nandi is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 3239 days
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 644
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

[quote=dchristen03;5345745]She is an evil hag, although nothing compared to Voldemort.



I think only Voldemort and Bellatrix outdo her in evilness and i think she should have gone the same way.


Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old October 12th, 2009, 11:39 am
Schlubalybub's Avatar
Schlubalybub  Female.gif Schlubalybub is offline
Suteki da ne
 
Joined: 5561 days
Location: North East Wales
Age: 32
Posts: 2,749
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

They need someone to continue with the evilness though. I think that perhaps you're right with the Voldy and Bella sentiment...although that one that Harry became with the Polyjuice potion in DH could give her a run for her money


__________________

We asked ourselves, "Can we really fight 24 hours?" And the answer was, "We will fight 8,760 hours!"
- Nobuo Uematsu


Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old December 4th, 2010, 1:15 am
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3858 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 33
Posts: 2,591
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

In the Lockhart thread, the matter of Lockhart's House came up. I'm inclined to believe that the four "bad" DADA teachers represent each of the House traits put to bad use. Quirrell -Ravenclaw; Lockhart- Gryffindor; Crouch Jr -Hufflepuff; and Umbridge -Slytherin. These characters' actions show their House traits put to bad use, rather than going against their House traits, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
It's funny you call Umbridge a Slytherin, because I've never pictured her as a Slyth at all. I know she allies herself with them but I've always thought she was a Ravenclaw gone bad (as was Augustus Rookwood in my mind) rather than a Slyth.
I don't see anything particularly Ravenclaw -like about Umbridge. She's not particularly intellectual, and her desire to "prune back" and prevent new ideas goes very much against Ravenclaw thinking, IMO.

However, she puts ambition to bad use (everyone needs to have some ambition, but it really depends on what that ambition is- for example, in Voldemort's case, his ambitions were not good or decent. Likewise in Umbridge's case, IMO). Umbridge starts off as DADA teacher and gradually extends her power in more and more oppressive ways. That seems to be putting ambition to bad use to me. Just to be clear -I think ambition to be promoted is a good thing. However, in Umbridge's case, her ambition was more to do with being able to subdue any opinion that went against her own by any means possible and not promotion for a better, more interesting/challenging job and better salary.

Plus, she is willing to "use any means to achieve her ends" - attempting to have a teenager subjected to a fate worse than death to keep his story out of the media, for example.


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.

Last edited by FurryDice; December 4th, 2010 at 1:22 am.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old December 4th, 2010, 5:18 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4389 days
Location: Shuttling between Europe & US
Posts: 1,607
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post
In the Lockhart thread, the matter of Lockhart's House came up. I'm inclined to believe that the four "bad" DADA teachers represent each of the House traits put to bad use. Quirrell -Ravenclaw; Lockhart- Gryffindor; Crouch Jr -Hufflepuff; and Umbridge -Slytherin. These characters' actions show their House traits put to bad use, rather than going against their House traits, IMO.
It's probable, IMO, that Umbridge was in Slytherin (pureblood, ambition, cunning, ruthlessness, tendencies towards evil deeds) but how do you figure Lockhart for a Gryffindor? He's not brave or loyal or honest.

Since this thread is not about him, I'll go have a look at the Lockhart thread.


Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old December 18th, 2010, 9:41 pm
James26  Male.gif James26 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2776 days
Location: Wales
Age: 21
Posts: 30
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

I really liked Umbridge, she was one of my favourite characters. I know she is evil but I can't help but like her, she's such a good character.


__________________

CoS House: Pottermore House:
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old December 18th, 2010, 10:29 pm
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is offline
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 3131 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,270
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryDice View Post
However, she puts ambition to bad use (everyone needs to have some ambition, but it really depends on what that ambition is- for example, in Voldemort's case, his ambitions were not good or decent. Likewise in Umbridge's case, IMO). Umbridge starts off as DADA teacher and gradually extends her power in more and more oppressive ways. That seems to be putting ambition to bad use to me. Just to be clear -I think ambition to be promoted is a good thing. However, in Umbridge's case, her ambition was more to do with being able to subdue any opinion that went against her own by any means possible and not promotion for a better, more interesting/challenging job and better salary.

Plus, she is willing to "use any means to achieve her ends" - attempting to have a teenager subjected to a fate worse than death to keep his story out of the media, for example.
What's weird, though, is that Umbridge - at core - is a bureaucrat. She's a loyalist to the Ministry. She works for whoever's in power - to promote those people's agendas. If Cornelius Fudge is in power, she is absolutely loyal to Fudge's agenda. If Voldemort's people are in power, she is absolutely loyal to Voldemort's agenda.

Her perverse sense of loyalty to the Ministry - in any and all circumstances - says to me that it's not entirely impossible that she could be a Hufflepuff gone bad - which is kind of a more amusing thought than her being a Slytherin (though I have no doubt she would have claimed - loudly - to be a Slytherin during Voldemort's reign).

I don't think she's a real Pureblood. She lies about the locket's origins to try to make herself look like a Pureblood... which makes me think that she's probably a Half-blood trying to pretend to be a Pureblood because it is now politically expedient to do so.

I'm on the fence about her House, and I think it's fun that we're never given any solid evidence one way or the other. She wears green to the Gryffindor-Slytherin Quidditch match - but is that because she herself is a Slytherin or because she (rather clearly) hates Gryffindor?

I really don't see Umbridge as being personally ambitious to gain power for herself so much as acquiring power in order to have the Ministry's agenda du jour stamped firmly in place.

She's sort of the classic mid-level bureaucrat who commits atrocities without a second thought because she has no personal moral compass and will do whatever she thinks necessary to advance the agenda of her employer.

What's scary is that I know people like this... but on a smaller scale.

At any rate, I'd say she's a Slytherpuff... but I have no idea which of those Houses she was actually sorted into.


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old December 18th, 2010, 11:09 pm
James26  Male.gif James26 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2776 days
Location: Wales
Age: 21
Posts: 30
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
What's weird, though, is that Umbridge - at core - is a bureaucrat. She's a loyalist to the Ministry. She works for whoever's in power - to promote those people's agendas. If Cornelius Fudge is in power, she is absolutely loyal to Fudge's agenda. If Voldemort's people are in power, she is absolutely loyal to Voldemort's agenda.

Her perverse sense of loyalty to the Ministry - in any and all circumstances - says to me that it's not entirely impossible that she could be a Hufflepuff gone bad - which is kind of a more amusing thought than her being a Slytherin (though I have no doubt she would have claimed - loudly - to be a Slytherin during Voldemort's reign).

I don't think she's a real Pureblood. She lies about the locket's origins to try to make herself look like a Pureblood... which makes me think that she's probably a Half-blood trying to pretend to be a Pureblood because it is now politically expedient to do so.

I'm on the fence about her House, and I think it's fun that we're never given any solid evidence one way or the other. She wears green to the Gryffindor-Slytherin Quidditch match - but is that because she herself is a Slytherin or because she (rather clearly) hates Gryffindor?

I really don't see Umbridge as being personally ambitious to gain power for herself so much as acquiring power in order to have the Ministry's agenda du jour stamped firmly in place.

She's sort of the classic mid-level bureaucrat who commits atrocities without a second thought because she has no personal moral compass and will do whatever she thinks necessary to advance the agenda of her employer.

What's scary is that I know people like this... but on a smaller scale.

At any rate, I'd say she's a Slytherpuff... but I have no idea which of those Houses she was actually sorted into.
I hope she was a hufflepuff! One of the things I,d change in harry potter is to make her go good


__________________

CoS House: Pottermore House:
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old December 19th, 2010, 12:03 am
Frogki  Male.gif Frogki is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 3066 days
Location: FL
Age: 21
Posts: 212
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

Personally I feel she might be even more evil than Voldemort, because it seemed to me that she wasn't doing all of those horrible things because she thought it was for the best of everyone, it was because she was an evil [staff edit] whose only real loyalty lied within the Ministry (and even that, I believe, was simply to gain power over others). I don't think she was a Death Eater, because as he said, the world is not split into good people and death eaters. She was simply an evil, power hungry woman. Her actions supported Voldemort because she thought (even if secretly) that "half breeds" and magical creatures were lesser beings. That, along with the fact that she remained silent even in the impossible to ignore signs that he was back are all strong enough evidence to conclude that her actions supported Voldemort. Whether or not she supported him in thought is a whole other story.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

Dolores was absolutely unbearable throughout OotP, however, she helped prepare Harry for the next stage in Harry's life - his horcrux hunt and the whole Ministry takeover by Voldemort. She built skills and helped the members of the DA to gain certain values through her horrendous actions. I feel the handling of her "duties" was, once again horrible. The evil woman was not simply doing her job, she was helping to fuel the Ministers conspiracy theory, and she was doing things that absolutely no teacher or woman in charge should EVER do.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

Her loyalty was never, IMHO, to Fudge, or Scrimegour once he got the job. Her loyalty was to the power she gained by being in the Ministry. I think she was changed into the department that basically tried to stamp out all non - wizards during Voldemorts takeover...

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

I don't think it was possible to make Umbridge more evil, and since she had Voldemorts ideals and was doing what he needed the Ministry to do, the horcrux didn't need to get her to do anything and it didn't need to waste energy by possessing her. I don't think she ever realized what it really was, but by passing it off as an old family heirloom shows how conceited and attention seeking she really is/was. I seem to remember Mundungus telling them that he had to give it to her in order to stop her from shutting him down.


__________________
I've been sorted, and I'm a proud Hufflepuff

The Wizarding World of Harry Potter is now officially open! We can finally enter the world we always dreamed about!

"Of course it's been happening in your head Harry, but why on Earth should that mean it's not real?" Albus Dumbledore

"Do not pity the dead Harry, pity the living, and above all, pity those who live without love" Albus Dumbledore

"After all, to the well organized mind, death is but the next great adventure" Albus Dumbledore

Love Dumbledore's wise quotes, he's definitely got his priorities straight and his heart in the right place.

Last edited by SusanBones; December 19th, 2010 at 1:01 am. Reason: bashing
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old February 26th, 2011, 3:55 am
Reid  Undisclosed.gif Reid is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2920 days
Posts: 187
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

I'd put her somewhere in the middle maybe leaning towards the most evil side. if i was to put Voldemort and Bella as 100 percent evil and the Trio as 0% i'd think she'd be like 60-75% evil, pretty evil but not completely. I think if she was a DE she'd would have been revealed.

Her actions in DH did support Voldemort though, since she was accusing people of stealing magic.


2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"? anytime you have a overly oppresive leader, there's going to be some sort of backlash. It helped Harry formed Dumbledore's Army, which helped in the long run as it gave other students a knowledge of how to defend themselves.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?I I think it was something she just happened to come upon. It affected her in the same way it affected The Trio, when she was headmaster she was "cruel" not exactly "evil" everyone in The Trio became more mean when they wore the necklace, Umbridge was already mean so she became more evil.


Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old February 26th, 2011, 5:41 am
Taquiq  Male.gif Taquiq is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 2729 days
Location: Hogwarts Library
Posts: 207
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?
I think Umbridge isn't quite as evil as Voldemort, I don't think she would do that much killing or strive that much for immortality. DEs are a huge group and Umbridge is one person that wasn't that well known. So saying that it was split between DE and good people was logical for whoever said that as long as they don't go to Hogwarts because then they know her evilness. So basically, she does not cause as much trouble as Death Eaters do so she wouldn't qualify into a separate group. I think some of her actions help Voldemort like the Mudblood registration committee because Voldemort wanted to get rid of them too. However, some don't like her trying to take over Hogwarts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?
I think her trying to perform her "duties" helped Harry a lot. Harry learned a great deal about friendship, teaching, and other life skills. And after all, it all worked out in the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?
I think that she is still employed because Fudge was mad and he needed her to infiltrate Hogwarts. IMO her "loyalty" shifted to Scrimgeour or else she would not have the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermy_weasley2 View Post
4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?
Didn't she get it from Mundungus or something? I think she was able to control herself when she had it on more than the trio. I think eventually she did realize what it was because as Dumbledore says, things aren't the same when they are affected by dark magic.


__________________


Lightnox167
12¼ inches, Hawthorn, Unicorn Hair core, unyielding

Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old February 26th, 2011, 6:20 am
KendraD  Undisclosed.gif KendraD is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2708 days
Posts: 14
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

I would not say that she was not pure evil. In The Order of the Phoenix,it is pointed out that not everyone is either a deatheater or good. She did not go around killing and torturing people for the fun of it or just because. She was attracted to power and that caused her to not only to blindly follow it like Percy did, but to use whatever means necessary to do what those in power needed to be done to make herself look good and for the sake of those in power. I.e. sending the dementors on Harry to have him shut up about Voldemort returning, because that is what Fudge said needed to be done. It was not because she wanted Harry to suffer for the fun of it, but still she did not care that Harry's future (at best being expelled, at worst losing his soul) would be worsened, as long as she got what the most powerful person said needed to be be done.


2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

Umbridge helped unify the school ( with the exception of the inquisitorial squad) in there dislike of her. Even Peeves joined there cause.


4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

The locket amplifies fears, insecurities, and other negative attributes a person already has, it dose not create them. Umbridge did not seam a very insecure or fearful person. She is a grown women who appears to be satisfied with her career, the way her life is going, and what she is doing with it. The trio on the other hand, are seventeen year-olds on the run from constant danger. So instead it would make her more power hungry, or more willing to do Voldemort's bidding, since it was a part of his soul inside the locket.



Last edited by KendraD; February 26th, 2011 at 6:20 am. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old February 28th, 2011, 12:14 am
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3858 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 33
Posts: 2,591
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taquiq View Post
I think her trying to perform her "duties" helped Harry a lot. Harry learned a great deal about friendship, teaching, and other life skills. And after all, it all worked out in the end.
And the DA were able to stand up to the Carrows, because they had experience of opposing Umbridge's oppression. However, I would credit the Trio and the rest of the DA for that, rather than Umbridge. I don't feel comfortable giving Umbridge credit when her misdeeds had a positive result that she did not expect or want.

Quote:
I think that she is still employed because Fudge was mad and he needed her to infiltrate Hogwarts. IMO her "loyalty" shifted to Scrimgeour or else she would not have the job.
I think Umbridge had a desire to be where the power was -she wanted to be influential in the Ministry, she valued the bureaucracy and power of the Ministry above any person, including Fudge, Scrimgeour or Thicknesse, IMO.
I think she justified her terrible actions by telling herself that she was from the Ministry, so she was entitled to make these decisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KendraD View Post
I would not say that she was not pure evil. In The Order of the Phoenix,it is pointed out that not everyone is either a deatheater or good. She did not go around killing and torturing people for the fun of it or just because.
She didn't do it just for fun, but she did enjoy it, IMO. She seems very smug and pleased with herself when she makes Harry carve his hand open, (torture, IMO) and she seems like she's enjoying herself when she is humiliating Muggleborns and threatening them with the Dementor's Kiss. That there is a reason for it doesn't make her actions any less cruel and vindictive, IMO.

Quote:
It was not because she wanted Harry to suffer for the fun of it, but still she did not care that Harry's future (at best being expelled, at worst losing his soul) would be worsened, as long as she got what the most powerful person said needed to be be done.
It's stated in PoA that the Dementor's Kiss is a fate worse than death. I can't see how Umbridge's sending Dementors to destroy Harry is any less evil than Voldemort's Avada Kedavra against Harry in the graveyard a few months before. Both were attempted murder, IMO. I would consider sending a hitman/woman/Dementor to kill someone just as much murder as killing the person directly. And as the Dementor's Kiss is worse than death, it's even more disturbing how far she is willing to go. It shows that Umbridge has no restraint, and that people come far below the bureaucracy and authority in her priorities.


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.

Last edited by FurryDice; February 28th, 2011 at 12:19 am.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old February 28th, 2011, 3:53 am
bellatrix93's Avatar
bellatrix93  Female.gif bellatrix93 is offline
Malum Veneficus
 
Joined: 3795 days
Location: The Dark Lord's HQ (Mordor) :p
Posts: 2,394
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryDice
I think Umbridge had a desire to be where the power was -she wanted to be influential in the Ministry, she valued the bureaucracy and power of the Ministry above any person, including Fudge, Scrimgeour or Thicknesse, IMO.
I think she justified her terrible actions by telling herself that she was from the Ministry, so she was entitled to make these decisions.
What I find surprising, is that Umbridge was much worse than Fudge, yet she was able to keep her job, while Fudge had to step down from his position, because the Wizarding community wanted that. It must be that her actions as a ministry official were unknown to the wizarding community. Otherwise they would have wanted her down before Fudge, because a person who supported prejudice shouldn't have remained in power, in a Ministry that was working to bring Voldemort down.


__________________



Thanks to my secret sigswitch maker, for the wonderful avatar and signature!


Sig/avatar pictures by Cassandra Austen.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old February 28th, 2011, 5:54 am
merrymarge's Avatar
merrymarge  Female.gif merrymarge is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3475 days
Posts: 2,159
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Umbridge was Under Secretary to the Minister who happened to be Fudge. She claimed that Fudge okayed a lot of what Umbridge wanted to do. She could claim that she was following orders. All the educational decrees were signed by Fudge, which was why he was forced to step down. How she got away with what she did in DH under Thicknesse didn't make sense to me.


Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old March 9th, 2011, 7:54 am
horcrux4's Avatar
horcrux4  Female.gif horcrux4 is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 4624 days
Location: Sheffield UK
Age: 72
Posts: 2,167
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymarge View Post
Umbridge was Under Secretary to the Minister who happened to be Fudge. She claimed that Fudge okayed a lot of what Umbridge wanted to do. She could claim that she was following orders. All the educational decrees were signed by Fudge, which was why he was forced to step down. How she got away with what she did in DH under Thicknesse didn't make sense to me.
Thicknesse was under the Imperius curse and was therefore acting as a DE would. I think Umbridge's actions would have been fine by the DEs! I suspect she kept pretty quiet under Scrimgeour who I don't think would have given her much scope for her natural desire to intimidate or hurt people. With the DEs in charge though she was in her element. I wonder if she had ambitions to be the Minister herself or if she was a natural second in command?


__________________
Meet Mickey, my new kitten!
Quote:
"From this time forth we shall be leaving the firm foundation of fact and journeying together through the murky marshes of memory into thickets of wildest guesswork."
Albus Dumbledore, HBP
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old March 19th, 2011, 10:57 pm
Rookie_Angel's Avatar
Rookie_Angel  Female.gif Rookie_Angel is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 3986 days
Posts: 450
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

I think that her actions do support him, especially her vendettas against anyone who isn't a pure-blooded witch or wizard. I agree with the people who suspect she wasn't as pureblooded herself as what she put on, and that she sniffed on the wind the idea that if Voldy was back, being on the side of the people who had made a point of being anti-Mudblood would be nice, well-thought of teacher's pets.

I agree with the person who said that she seems nastier than Voldemort because she seems like she could be real--everyone's had that mean teacher who seemed to hate them for no good reason, or that boss who seemed to get their jollies out of giving everyone extra overtime or a dirty job just because they could.

No she didn't have a DE mark on her arm, and in a chat JKR had said that no DE besides Snape could cast a Patronus--essentially boiling down to because they wouldn't want to or have a need to, so I guess that rules her out as any kind of official DE, but nasty for the sake of the enjoyment nasty, or for self-aggrandizement, power, and being able to crush the weak under your thumb, oh yeah, she's right there.

As to her name, not only does Dolores have a first name that means misery, I know I read somewhere that Jo had said that her surname had to do with her haughty air, as in someone "taking umbrage" as someone else's suggestion.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

I think she felt that her job and her duty was that she'd been hired to be the Anti-Dumbledore and took it upon herself with relish to do just that; put the brakes on anyone at Hogwarts learning, thinking for one's self, taking any proactive actions, etc. Any salutory effects that her evilness had upon the student body taking it upon themselves to gird themselves for battle was purely incidental and no credit to her.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

As others have said, keeping her own job and power and keeping her head above water, whatever bigshot she had to curtsy to, was her main focus. Yeah, she may have had a bit of a thing for ol' Fudgy, but that wasn't going to stop her from looking good to whoever came next. I doubt she much cared what her new job was, as long as it carried a fair amount of power she could lord over others and make herself puffed up over.

As someone said earlier, with the puffed-up, put on prettyness, the cats and the cardigans and the bows as well as the false sweetness, she was probably trying to overcome an inferiority complex developed growing up as an unattractive young woman--an "I'm plastering myself with all the elements of prettiness, and as to the putting down, I'll show them who's putting who down now!" sort of thing.


4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

Yes, she wielded her influence over Dung to get it. No, I doubt she ever tumbled to it being Voldemort's or she probably would have been as scared to death of it as if it had sounded like hoofbeats. But when she saw it as something she could control and manipulate for her purposes, and to put herself a rung above others, well then, all well and good, she would brandish it for all she was worth.

JKR said in the same chat I referenced above,"...she is a very nasty piece of work. She has an affinity for this horrible object, which would help rather than hinder her."

I guess before reading various posts to that effect here, I never really thought she got worse because of the locket, but now that makes sense. I guess I just thought she was ratcheting up her game as the going got tougher as did so many others on both sides.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old March 20th, 2011, 6:03 pm
Lady_Snape  Female.gif Lady_Snape is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 2713 days
Location: On my Scooty Puff Jr.
Age: 37
Posts: 69
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

1) Jo herself describes Umbridge as evil. How does Dolores rate against the series villain, Lord Voldemort? When Harry was told the world wasn't divided between good people and Death Eaters, did that rule her out as a DE? Do you think her actions support Voldemort even if she isn't a DE?

Umbridge is very evil, and delightfully so. She is a character you just love to hate. Her and Voldy are pretty similar in the fact that they're both power hungry megalomaniacs. She wasn't really a Death Eater, but I think she liked to identify herself with the "winning" side. Also, Death Eaters don't wear pink so that was probably a deciding factor for her.

I think the woman had a field day when the Ministry became so corrupt because she was finally free to show her true colors (aside from that garish pink she enjoyed so much.) It was like Christmas for her.

2) Umbridge did her share of driving the plot in OotP, the trio would never have formed Dumbledore's Army without her influence, for instance. Did her tenure at Hogwarts--as DADA professor, High Inquisitor and Headmistress--produce other effects favorable to Harry and company? How do you feel about the handling of her "duties"?

Aside from DA, her actions caused most of the students (and teachers) to unite in a front against her. I remember one part in the book that really tickled me was when Peeves was unscrewing a light fixture or something (please correct me if I'm wrong) and Minerva walked by and whispered to him to unscrew it the other way. Aside from the unity it caused within the school, I think it also caused some of the students to believe in and trust Harry again.

3) How is it that Dolores is still employed at the Ministry? Is she still 'loyal' to Fudge or has her loyalty shifted to Minister Scrimgeour? Is she Scrimgeour's Senior Undersecretary or does she now have another title/job?

Simple. She's loyal to whoever is in power. Whether it's Fudge or Scrimgeour or whomever doesn't matter to her. I'm sure she's still Senior Undersecretary.

4) How did Umbridge come across the horcrux locket? How come it didn't have the same impact on her when she was wearing it as it did on the trio? Did she realise what the locket really was?

I don't think she had any idea on what it really was to be honest. After reading through this thread I saw that many members feel that she became even nastier after possessing the locket. I never thought about that before, but it does make sense. One thing that really stuck out for me is when she uses Mad-Eye's eye as a "security device" outside her office door. Now that's just vile.

I also like the fact that she seems obsessed with the color pink and has cute little kitten plates all over her office. On outward appearance, it makes her seem all sweet and cuddly but it hides her true nature which is exactly the opposite of "sweet and cuddly." I think it's just an interesting facet of her character.

Oh, and one more thing I must mention:

"HEM HEM!"

That is all.


__________________
Member of the Slytherin House.


"I saw this dude, he was wearing a leather jacket, and at the same time he was eating a hamburger and drinking a glass of milk. I said to him 'Dude, you're a cow. The metamorphosis is complete. Don't fall asleep or I'll tip you over.'" -Mitch Hedberg
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old March 23rd, 2011, 9:28 pm
FurryDice's Avatar
FurryDice  Female.gif FurryDice is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 3858 days
Location: Ireland
Age: 33
Posts: 2,591
Re: Dolores Jane Umbridge: Character Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by horcrux4 View Post
Thicknesse was under the Imperius curse and was therefore acting as a DE would. I think Umbridge's actions would have been fine by the DEs! I suspect she kept pretty quiet under Scrimgeour who I don't think would have given her much scope for her natural desire to intimidate or hurt people. With the DEs in charge though she was in her element. I wonder if she had ambitions to be the Minister herself or if she was a natural second in command?
I don't think she had ambitions to become Minister. As merrymarge said, she could have claimed that Fudge had ordered/okayed the things she did. She wouldn't be able to hide behind such a claim if she became Minister.

Also, I think the fact that she was less of a public figure than the Minister kept her in the job when the public turned against Fudge. He was the public face of the Ministry's mess-up regarding Voldemort's return, so he was the one expected to resign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie_Angel View Post
I think that her actions do support him, especially her vendettas against anyone who isn't a pure-blooded witch or wizard. I agree with the people who suspect she wasn't as pureblooded herself as what she put on, and that she sniffed on the wind the idea that if Voldy was back, being on the side of the people who had made a point of being anti-Mudblood would be nice, well-thought of teacher's pets.
I think she already held those prejudices. Sirius says that she drafted anti-werewolf legislation some time before OotP. And she rants about half-breeds to the centaurs when it would clearly be in her best interests not to do something like that.

Quote:
I think she felt that her job and her duty was that she'd been hired to be the Anti-Dumbledore and took it upon herself with relish to do just that; put the brakes on anyone at Hogwarts learning, thinking for one's self, taking any proactive actions, etc. Any salutory effects that her evilness had upon the student body taking it upon themselves to gird themselves for battle was purely incidental and no credit to her.
Hermione's description of Umbridge as "power crazed" comes to mind. I agree that she felt that people being hurt was a side effect -she showed this when she sent Dementors to destroy an innocent teenager, and threatened innocent people she was interrogating with the Dementor's Kiss. Peoples' suffering, and lives and souls lost do not matter as long as she gets her goals accomplished. IMO, this validates the description of Umbridge as "evil".


Quote:
Yes, she wielded her influence over Dung to get it. No, I doubt she ever tumbled to it being Voldemort's or she probably would have been as scared to death of it as if it had sounded like hoofbeats. But when she saw it as something she could control and manipulate for her purposes, and to put herself a rung above others, well then, all well and good, she would brandish it for all she was worth.
Yeah, I doubt she would have flaunted it in public if she had known it belonged to Voldemort. She would have known how that would end for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Snape View Post
Umbridge is very evil, and delightfully so. She is a character you just love to hate. Her and Voldy are pretty similar in the fact that they're both power hungry megalomaniacs. She wasn't really a Death Eater, but I think she liked to identify herself with the "winning" side. Also, Death Eaters don't wear pink so that was probably a deciding factor for her.
I agree, she was very similar to Voldemort in desire for power. Apart from being more realistic, as a character, I think Umbridge herself was more realistic and practical about how to gain power and about how much she could get away with.


__________________

Pic by julvett at deviantart http://julvett.deviantart.com/gallery/2984632
"Relationships are like glass; sometimes it's better to leave them broken than to hurt yourself trying to put them back together." Anonymous
"Like this one time I sort of ran over this girl on her bike. It was the most traumatising event of my life and she’s trying to make it about her leg. Like my pain meant nothing." - Cordelia; Buffy the Vampire Slayer S1Ep11.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, dolores umbridge


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 8:57 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.