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Divergent by Veronica Roth



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  #21  
Old October 24th, 2013, 3:29 pm
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

Anyone finish Allegiant yet?

I was fairly disappointed in it. I didn't like the dual POV, I found it extremely confusing. Many times I didn't know if it was Tris or Tobais. Literally I would think I was reading Tris and 2 pages into the chapter I would realize it was Tobias.

I felt that Allegiant Tobias wasn't the guy I signed up for. I mean, because we don't see inside his head in the first 2 books, he is sort of a mystery. He's on guard, observant, but doesn't jump to action. It's better when it is we see how messed up Tobias is from afar. It gives the situation more power.

Major spoiler:
Spoiler: show
So if you're going to go and kill off the protagonist, it has to be for a really good reason. If you're going to play sacrifice, then it has to be a real sacrifice. It was hugely disappointing that Tris runs to her death for no reason. Really, no reason. Perhaps if Caleb failed and the death serum got him, she'd have to take over. Or if he was shot putting on the clean suit, some other reason that he couldn't complete his mission. Or If she's going to jump in and save the day, he should be fighting along side of her. Give Caleb an ounce of redemption. And no, volunteering for the suicide mission isn't enough. He should have jumped in to distract David so she could push in the code. Then they can both die.

OR play Romeo and Juliet and kill off Tobias too. Have them both be betrayed. Fulfill the tragedy. Have peace in come to Chicago because Marcus shoots Tobias - that would have been more realistic. Let Marcus be the monster that he is. Redeem Evelyn by doing so. If you're going to destroy - really destroy.

And can I say something about bringing people back from the dead??? JKR fully established that once someone is dead they are dead. How can I trust an author who had Evelyn, Amar and George Wu show up when they are supposed to be dead. Say 'went missing' if you don't really want to kill them. Presumed dead. Don't use a magical serum to erase memories. Total garbage. So when Tris' mom shows up as a ghost, I just don't trust the Author.

I'm done ranting. I knew I wasn't going to like this book, but I didn't realize it was going to be for placing everyone out of character and making me lose interest in the love that Tris and Tobias had. Grrr


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Last edited by HMN; October 24th, 2013 at 3:35 pm.
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  #22  
Old October 25th, 2013, 3:16 am
Asphodel79  Female.gif Asphodel79 is offline
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMN View Post
Anyone finish Allegiant yet?

I was fairly disappointed in it. I didn't like the dual POV, I found it extremely confusing. Many times I didn't know if it was Tris or Tobais. Literally I would think I was reading Tris and 2 pages into the chapter I would realize it was Tobias.

I felt that Allegiant Tobias wasn't the guy I signed up for. I mean, because we don't see inside his head in the first 2 books, he is sort of a mystery. He's on guard, observant, but doesn't jump to action. It's better when it is we see how messed up Tobias is from afar. It gives the situation more power.

Major spoiler:
Spoiler: show
So if you're going to go and kill off the protagonist, it has to be for a really good reason. If you're going to play sacrifice, then it has to be a real sacrifice. It was hugely disappointing that Tris runs to her death for no reason. Really, no reason. Perhaps if Caleb failed and the death serum got him, she'd have to take over. Or if he was shot putting on the clean suit, some other reason that he couldn't complete his mission. Or If she's going to jump in and save the day, he should be fighting along side of her. Give Caleb an ounce of redemption. And no, volunteering for the suicide mission isn't enough. He should have jumped in to distract David so she could push in the code. Then they can both die.

OR play Romeo and Juliet and kill off Tobias too. Have them both be betrayed. Fulfill the tragedy. Have peace in come to Chicago because Marcus shoots Tobias - that would have been more realistic. Let Marcus be the monster that he is. Redeem Evelyn by doing so. If you're going to destroy - really destroy.

And can I say something about bringing people back from the dead??? JKR fully established that once someone is dead they are dead. How can I trust an author who had Evelyn, Amar and George Wu show up when they are supposed to be dead. Say 'went missing' if you don't really want to kill them. Presumed dead. Don't use a magical serum to erase memories. Total garbage. So when Tris' mom shows up as a ghost, I just don't trust the Author.

I'm done ranting. I knew I wasn't going to like this book, but I didn't realize it was going to be for placing everyone out of character and making me lose interest in the love that Tris and Tobias had. Grrr
I haven't finished it yet, but I am really disappointed with the dual viewpoint.


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  #23  
Old October 25th, 2013, 4:13 am
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

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Originally Posted by Asphodel79 View Post
I haven't finished it yet, but I am really disappointed with the dual viewpoint.
Please post when you do! I'd love to hear what you think...


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  #24  
Old October 28th, 2013, 10:28 pm
BubblyShell22  Female.gif BubblyShell22 is offline
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

Just finished Allegiant, and wow what a book! I didn't hate it, but I was shocked that:
Spoiler: show

Tris died just like that. I felt for sure Caleb was going to step in and save her somehow to give him some redemption, but nothing like that was done. While I'm not angry that Tris died (as I feel that it's more of a reality that not every love story can have a happy ending), I am disappointed in how it came about. Yes, Tris sacrificed herself, but I think in the end, they decided not to use the memory serum at all. It just seemed kind of weird to me how it all ended. I agree that Tobias should have died as well as that would have been interesting, but you have to have one live, and I was shocked that she let Tobias live and not Tris.


Still, it wasn't a horrible book at all, and I really did like how it ended, though I was just shocked about it. And I also agree that the fake death thing was a cop out and very stupid of Roth to do. But other than that, I thought the book was fine. At least Roth had the guts to do what Stephanie Meyer never had the guts to do and that was to kill off important characters that were good.


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  #25  
Old October 29th, 2013, 10:51 am
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

I despised the ending but not because of the lack of happily ever after.
John Greene chastised readers for not being generous but honestly I think Roth doesn't get that self sacrifice isn't the same as being selfless.
Tris journey of selflessness wasn't explored by
Spoiler: show
being shot randomly.
.
The retconning of the world building of the first two books by adding in a crammed in plot about pure genetics vs supposed damaged genes toppled over the weak faction story.
Ugh.
I agree about the dual povs reading exactly alike.


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  #26  
Old October 29th, 2013, 2:05 pm
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

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I despised the ending but not because of the lack of happily ever after.
John Greene chastised readers for not being generous but honestly I think Roth doesn't get that self sacrifice isn't the same as being selfless.
I'll have to see what John Greene has to say on the matter. He's usually spot on...
But I agree with what you're saying.
Spoiler: show
She didn't have to die, she chose to die, and unlike Harry Potter who chooses to die to save the world, because he was the ONLY ONE who could end it, there were so many others that could have taken the sacrifice. She should have only died because Caleb failed. Or it would have been ok to me if she actually didn't survive the death serum but had made it so Caleb was able to get by and trigger the memory serum. It's just so written to be shocking that it was unrealistic.

Quote:
The retconning of the world building of the first two books by adding in a crammed in plot about pure genetics vs supposed damaged genes toppled over the weak faction story.
We knew that the faction world was going to be some kind of experiment, and I felt like it was interesting how all the conflict was actually engineered from the outside. But I felt like it was all very contrived. The US government allows multiple city-wide experiments for over 100 years? (which often times seemed to be written as if only 10-20 years had past). It would have been more believable to me if was that the government herded everyone post war into cities and set them up to see how to achieve a peaceful society. With the Fringe being the equivalent of the Factionless - those that couldn't live according to societies rules - and the Gov't being like the Erudite. The way that the mini societies mirrored the actual society would have been more poetic justice for me. The convoluted gene purity thing just didn't work for me. I could see she was trying to make a parallel with racism, but since that topic didn't come up in any other book, it seems weird to suddenly have this social commentary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblyShell22 View Post
At least Roth had the guts to do what Stephanie Meyer never had the guts to do and that was to kill off important characters that were good.
OMG totally agree. Twilight would have benefited from ending a few lives and not creating new ones.

I still think that if you're going to kill off a character, it has to be for a good reason. Feeling bad that someone else may have to die and/or feeling invincible isn't reason enough.


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  #27  
Old October 30th, 2013, 11:13 pm
BubblyShell22  Female.gif BubblyShell22 is offline
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Re: Divergent by Veronica Roth

Yes, I agree, and the death came out of nowhere for me when I read it. I was like, "What just happened?" And then when they actually revealed it, I was like, "Wow. Did she actually just do that?" But other than that, I thought the book was okay. I'm re-reading the series now to see how it all connects.


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