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The Hunger Games



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  #81  
Old August 29th, 2010, 6:18 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

Regarding the end:
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I actually really liked the voting scene, looking back on it. At the moment I read it I thought, "What? Katniss wouldn't do that? What's she up to?" especially with the discussion surrounding the dialogue I knew there had to be more to it. When Haymitch went with her it just reminded me of the times in the Arena when she was puzzling him out (only in reverse this time). They are alike in a lot of ways Katniss and Haymitch. I also liked that the president basically suffocated himself and that she didn't just kill him in front of a crowd. That never would have sat well with me.

I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books. I'm sad that we didn't see any real development with Peeta, because I always thought his puppy-dog love was a little cloying, but there's only so much she can do. I wasn't disappointed that they ended up together.


My favorite line has got to be: "Gale can think what he likes." I know that sounds strange, but I love Katniss for her confidence. So many female characters (and even some females in real life, in my experience) feel like they need to explain their every emotion. Make sure that everyone fully understands their thought processes. Even grovel at the feet of people begging for them to understand or to forgive her for what she thinks and feels. Katniss doesn't always handle things perfectly and she doesn't always express herself well, but she isn't ashamed of her own thoughts and feelings and doesn't apologize for them. I have great respect for that, and I love seeing it portrayed well in lit.

Oh and I loved the songs and poems Collins wrote in this book. They were stunning and gorgeous.

The whole book was a whirlwind. Her unbalanced state of mind is definitely reflected and I think the blackouts and sudden story jumps were a necessity to keeping it solely in Katniss' POV. Overall I was not disappointed It was a great birthday gift!

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(Oh and she totally stole my idea (okay, I'm sure someone thought of it 1000 years ago but still)! When I was younger I wanted to have twins, a boy and girl, and name them Castor and Pollux (Cas and Pol for short).)

As much as I liked the book, all the death was depressing. I know she's never had a light hand in that regard given the premise of the books, but still *sigh*


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  #82  
Old August 29th, 2010, 10:16 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

Just finished Mockingjay...that was indeed a whirlwind. If someone started it before the other two, they'd be horrified.

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I think that after Katniss saw the children (and Prim) die, seeing someone who has post-war/Games trauma, that was fairly interesting.

I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.


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  #83  
Old August 30th, 2010, 12:20 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

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I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.
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I was under the assumption that they didn't happen. It was Coin's idea, and who would she have told in the brief time between that meeting and the execution. That being said, I think it would have been pointless to have children of those arrested and executed fight to the death. I LOVED the choice of the D8 leader (forgetting her name, Payton?) as the new president. She was fair and level headed.


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  #84  
Old August 30th, 2010, 12:44 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Originally Posted by Beatifically View Post
Honestly? Just the ending.
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Everything after Prim died just bothered me. Katniss became a character I didn't like anymore, especially when they were voting about to keep the Hunger Games continuing. (One could argue that she only voted yes because she was going to kill Coin anyway, but that was never clarified. So I guess that's mostly an issue with writing?) Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.

Lastly, I have a huge issue with how Katniss was dealing with the war so many years later. I get that she wouldn't forget all that happened, but was she really that depressed? Maybe Suzanne Collins meant to say that she was still scarred, but it came across as if she was haunted on a daily basis, to the point that it was unhealthy.
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Yeah, I get that. It was not a happy ending by ANY means. I read this at HogPro. I t was so well said I'm not even going to attempt to reword it.
John GrangerThat we get a “happy ending” (?) with Peeta and Katniss raising a family in District 12 is not cause of celebration but for agonizing reflection about the broken lives wars leave in their wake, most obviously in the lives of the surviving soldiers.

I think S. Collins wanted to drive home her message of how devastating is war, and how it irremediably affects a person forever. Katniss struggle continues after war, this time internally, trying to make peace with everything and restore herself. It's only with time that she's able to "feel that thing again", and that she realizes that the only way that she can survive and deal with the aftermath of war is holding on to what Peeta ultimately represents, hope. And even after she does that, she stills struggles. "That's when I make a list in my head of every act of goodness I've seen someone do. It's like a game. Repetitive. Even a little tedious after more than twenty years."



That's a pretty dark ending indeed.

The realism intertwined in this dystopian fiction book took me by surprise. I think that why it affected me so much as I was reading. I was, quite literally, A MESS. Of course I drew real-life parallels with the first two, but this was brutally real. A heck of cautionary tale. I'm still trying to make peace with a lot of things myself.


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I felt the same at first. It was so exciting all the way through and then sort of flat. But then I realized
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just how broken and used and destroyed Katniss and Peeta are as people that the happily ever after will never be 100% happy. Dealing with flashbacks and breakdowns. They're still allies, but she finally fell in love with her ally. Gale also always had aspirations, and had Katniss not been so messed with, perhaps she would have also, but she was done - and a lot like Harry Potter, just wanting a quiet life. (but then again, that's a bit of what bothered me about the epilogue of HP!)
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Except "quite life" doesn't need to mean "depressive and unhealthy". But again, I think S. Collins was just pushing her message. Katniss is broken, and she is just holding on. Barely. And struggling. But holding on.


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Originally Posted by Beatifically View Post
Gale became
Spoiler: show
nearly out of character with his abrupt departure. Furthermore, it really just bothers me that their friendship was dropped so suddenly (though I understand why Katniss would associate him with the bomb), as if they were never close at all. I get that Katniss was supposed to be with Peeta and she explains it well at the end of Mockingjay, but it seems like Suzanne Collins was just trying to get rid of Gale quickly. And what's with that comment about Gale probably kissing another girl? That was so ... tactless. My main issue is that their whole friendship was thrown out the window when that was one of the best things in the series, besides the dynamic between Katniss and Peeta.
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To be honest, this is one of the events of the book that I’ve had to make more peace with for the same reasons you posted here.
I would like to think that Peeta helped Katniss to get there one day, that they could be able to repair their relationship, or salvage as much as they could (though some part of me think that would’ve be as painful).

Even if it wasn't on paper, I think that Gale looked out for Katniss from D2, even if she didn’t know. Much like she asked where he had gone to and how she thought of him when she entered the woods. I don’t think she forgot about her or leave her to her luck.

Someone pointed out somewhere how Katniss possessions were on D12 when she got there. They were speculating how Gale, one of the few people who knew they existed and their importance (he saved them from the firebombing), might have brought them to the house himself, maybe even ask Greasy Sae to keep an eye on her on D12.

But I understand why he left. I saw it in character. He just knows Katniss that much, knows how she works. And he needed to find as much peace as Katniss. She may never get past it (Prim's death), but he may never forgive himself for it. I do agree, though, that leaving AND forgetting about her well being is definitely NOT in his character. I refuse to think that just because it's not written in the book, it did not happen.

And YES! I agree with the "kissing another girl" comment too. WHAT WAS THAT?


Quote:
Originally Posted by HMN View Post
I think
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Gale loved her, but when he realized he didn't 'win' he was not coming back. I don't think ever. The whole Games started with Katniss trying to protect Prim and if she didn't try in the first place, life as normal would have continued. The whole thing became pointless to Katniss with the death of Prim - all of it really, the war, the rebellion - even though it was a good thing - she went through it all for nothing. And really, while it was Coin's fault, she'll always blame Gale.
Spoiler: show
I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.

Ultimately, he loved Katniss and wanted her happy. I think it was very brave of him to leave. I don’t think it was an easy decision, letting go. I only have respect for his character for doing that. I don’t think he would even attempt reaching out again, before making sure that’s what she wanted or was ready to. As Katniss said in the end of CF, he is “someone who will not plead, or explain, or think he can alter my design with entreaties, because he alone knows how I operate.”

Gale just had a hard role to play in this book as a whole.


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Regarding Katniss and Gale, I have the same questions about Katniss and her mother.
Spoiler: show

I had been thinking about her, too. I don't see her ever returning to D12. For anything. I think Gale's mom would've stay in touch with her. I even see Gale making sure she is ok in D4!

In my mind there's NO WAY this two families remained in touch, someway, somehow.


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Originally Posted by HMN View Post
I had to think about that over and over again.
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I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.
Spoiler: show
I'm for this theory too. In fact, for some reason it never crossed my mind that Katniss was telling the truth when she voted "yes". I just didn't know what she was going to do. I think her musings before voting, how nothing was ever going to change, gave it away. Coin was just a new, flipped side version of Snow. Katniss voted "yes" to mislead Coin about where her alliance lay.


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Originally Posted by HMN View Post
I started to become
Spoiler: show
a bit intolerant of all the blackouts myself. But when the rescue party even mentioned that the rescue of Peeta was too easy - I appreciated the turn of events even more. I think the anticipation worked for me this time because when Katniss went to see Peeta for the first time we all expected that hug, only to get the total opposite. I couldn't have been more pleased.
Spoiler: show
True, "hijacked" Peeta was one of the highlights of the book for me.


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Originally Posted by kala_way View Post
Regarding the end:
Spoiler: show

I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books.
Spoiler: show
Oh, I think we saw bits of it during his multiple rants in HG and CF. I don't remember the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "how different can't it be killing someone from hunting animals", among other things. We knew about his ardent fervor for rebellion.

In combat, well, it definitely gets escalated.

War is morally ambiguous no matter how you try to look at it or how you try to debate it. Gale represents a stance. His character is very black and white. Ultimately it bites him in the you-know-what when his weapons are used against children and end up killing Prim. *gulps* Coin is his leader because she is the only one backing up the cause for which he would give his life for. Coin is against Snow. So he is with Coin. He finally has the resources at hand to fight for what he had wanted to fight before. Then the mess happened.


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Oh and I loved the songs and poems Collins wrote in this book. They were stunning and gorgeous.
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Absolutely! I loved them too. I personally think "The Hanging Tree" may have a underlining revolutionary message. It is interesting when you see at the different point in the book when the song is referenced.


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Originally Posted by kala_way View Post
As much as I liked the book
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, all the death was depressing. I know she's never had a light hand in that regard given the premise of the books, but still *sigh*
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I know. I think she brought it to a whole new level this time, even with HG and CF on the bag.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockworthy View Post
Just finished Mockingjay...that was indeed a whirlwind. If someone started it before the other two, they'd be horrified.
That pretty much sums it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockworthy View Post
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I am now curious to see how the Capitol children's Hunger Games went down.
Spoiler: show
I don't think it happened either. Coin is dead, so is her idea.



Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...

I find it interesting that Gale went to D2 which is where he "cracked the Nut" with the avalanche, one of his most questionable ideas. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't D2's job weaponry? After Prim, and seeing how his weapons can be put to use in unexpected ways ... What may that "important job" be? I'm sure he know handles himself with a new found philosophy.


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Last edited by GinnyIsGenius; August 30th, 2010 at 12:58 am.
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  #85  
Old August 30th, 2010, 8:48 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Originally Posted by GinnyIsGenius View Post
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Even if it wasn't on paper, I think that Gale looked out for Katniss from D2, even if she didn’t know. Much like she asked where he had gone to and how she thought of him when she entered the woods. I don’t think she forgot about her or leave her to her luck.

Someone pointed out somewhere how Katniss possessions were on D12 when she got there. They were speculating how Gale, one of the few people who knew they existed and their importance (he saved them from the firebombing), might have brought them to the house himself, maybe even ask Greasy Sae to keep an eye on her on D12.

And YES! I agree with the "kissing another girl" comment too. WHAT WAS THAT?
Spoiler: show
I think that was just to show that Katniss could see him moving on with life. Even though it was never going to happen between them, he didn't try to patch things up either.


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I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.
Yes, this is a much better way of putting it.

Quote:
Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...

I find it interesting that Gale went to D2 which is where he "cracked the Nut" with the avalanche, one of his most questionable ideas. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't D2's job weaponry? After Prim, and seeing how his weapons can be put to use in unexpected ways ... What may that "important job" be? I'm sure he know handles himself with a new found philosophy.
Excellent question and observation! GiG, you are genius! Regarding the districts:
Spoiler: show
My first thought was that factory work is only really a small step up from mine work. I hope they get more than a factory built there. The idea of D4 getting a hospital made a nice connection between 12 making medicine and 4 building a hospital (Katniss' home and her mom's new home). Then Gale off in Peacekeeper breeding ground/ weaponry - that's an interesting thing. I hope he understood why Katniss killed Coin, and that his forte for trapping turns around into something good. It reminds me a bit of Beetee - he built part of the communications systems for the Capitol and then hijacked them for the Rebels. In war and power people can always take what they build or take their knowledge and use it for another purpose.


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  #86  
Old August 31st, 2010, 10:47 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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I think that was just to show that Katniss could see him moving on with life.
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Oh, interesting perspective. I guess it just sounded odd to me, because it was said so early upon her D12 arrival. I like it, though. I will keep it for my peace of mind.


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Even though it was never going to happen between them, he didn't try to patch things up either.
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I don't think Katniss was ready to patch anything up, and Gale knowing her as well as he did, knew this too. It'd be really unfair for her to feel deserted, IMO. She didn't stop him after all. She was unable to. As she said, she would have to deal with the pain that came with that decision (as I'm sure he would too).


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Originally Posted by HMN View Post
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My first thought was that factory work is only really a small step up from mine work. I hope they get more than a factory built there. The idea of D4 getting a hospital made a nice connection between 12 making medicine and 4 building a hospital (Katniss' home and her mom's new home). Then Gale off in Peacekeeper breeding ground/ weaponry - that's an interesting thing. I hope he understood why Katniss killed Coin, and that his forte for trapping turns around into something good. It reminds me a bit of Beetee - he built part of the communications systems for the Capitol and then hijacked them for the Rebels. In war and power people can always take what they build or take their knowledge and use it for another purpose.
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I think it would make sense for Gale to understand why Katniss killed Coin. He knew about the strong possibility that his bomb was the one that killed Prim. That would go back to Coin. Plus, he was always intuitive about the way Katniss "worked".

We didn't see Katniss' trial either. Who knows who else advocated in her defense! I can definitely see Gale getting involved. Another thing we'll never be sure of unless Collins goes the Rowling route and starts answering some questions. Again, for my peace of mind, I will think so.

Seems like D12 recovery was very slow. And for how long did Katniss had to be confined to there? I hope it wasn't forever. [sarcasm] But with such an upbeat ending [/sarcasm], I guess it's possible.


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  #87  
Old September 1st, 2010, 1:55 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

Wow, Mockingjay was incredible! A fitting end to the trilogy.

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I'm soooo glad that the conspiracy theory that was out and about in the webz turn out to be incorrect. *sigh of relief*
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Me, too, it was much more credible this way.


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My favorites were the two boys, I think. Peeta and Gale. Both going through very different motions. Peeta is broken. Gale is on a mission, basically riding on raw emotions. The Victors and their stories, another favorite, just gutted me inside. To hear them talk about the awful things there had been subjected by the Capitol, to finally know about them as persons, not as the ruthless Victors they were portrayed as. Finnick, in particular, was incredible.

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Finnick's story was so horrible, it went to show that the victors' special treatment from the Capitol is a lie, too. And that Snow was even lower than he already seemed.


Quote:
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There were things I'd have like to see that we didn't get a chance too. This sort of story black-outs, where we are just recounted the events. The victor's rescue from the Capitol, comes first to mind. Because it seemed a bit too easy. But I think it felt that way because we don't actually SEE it happening.
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I think it was worth it, to keep the books all in the same perspective. Also, with the remarks from Gale (I think) that the rescue seemed too easy, and Peeta being hijacked to kill Katniss, it's likely that Snow made it easy for them.


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Then the whole epilogue bothered me because Katniss seemed so detached. Really, she referred to her son and daughter as the "boy" and "girl"? I always saw her as so loyal and caring that it just shocked me how cold she was.


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I don't know if she was detached from the children - she says that only holding her baby daughter in her arms reassured her, and she shows concern for their happiness, that they won't have to live in fear. I think that not giving the children's names is a good thing, it keeps it deliberately vague -it's up to the reader whether the girl is named after Prim, or if the boy is named for one of his grandfathers. Remember all the criticism of the names in the DH epilogue?


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I had to think about that over and over again. I think it was a lot to do with giving Coin a 'vote' that Katniss was on her side - otherwise Katniss would not have been allowed to Kill Snow. So when she said "for Prim" it should have told Coin that Katniss knew D13/Coin killed Prim, but really it gave false confidence to Coin that Katniss believed it to be the Capitol and wanted revenge. I think Haymitch understood her because his reply, "I'm with the Mockingjay" also said to me that he knew Coin to be untrustworthy, but for once left it up to Katniss to decide what to do.
Quote:
Spoiler: show
Oh, I think that's very possible. Katniss knew that Coin had sent Peeta with the team to kill her, because she was willing to oppose Coin. She might well have been staying on Coin's good side until she got her chance. To be honest, I started wondering if Coin was going to be just as ruthless as Snow quite early on in Mockingjay, probably around the time the prep team were locked up to starve. I was very worried that Snow would become quite as despicable as Snow once she took power, and nothing would really change except the people in charge. Her desire to hold another Hunger Games really confirmed this. And I doubt it would have stopped at just one year.
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I like the way she progressed the characters. From where they stood before I thought for sure she'd be with Gale, but those kind of tough situations show you a lot about people. Gale had a vicious streak that I never really remember seeing in the previous books. I'm sad that we didn't see any real development with Peeta, because I always thought his puppy-dog love was a little cloying, but there's only so much she can do. I wasn't disappointed that they ended up together.
Spoiler: show
As others have mentioned, there are Gale's rants about the Capitol, and his view that killing a human isn't much different from killing an animal. For Gale, it's straightforward - the Capitol are the enemy, and you need to play by the same rules they follow -as he tells Katniss his double-whammy bombs are following the same rulebook Snow followed when he hikacked Peeta.


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I was under the assumption that they didn't happen. It was Coin's idea, and who would she have told in the brief time between that meeting and the execution. That being said, I think it would have been pointless to have children of those arrested and executed fight to the death. I LOVED the choice of the D8 leader (forgetting her name, Payton?) as the new president. She was fair and level headed.
Spoiler: show
I imagine they wouldn't happen, either. Coin spoke of the suffering in the districts being just cause for another Games, but she was safely tucked away in District 13. I think her own desire for vengeance may have come in there, to an extent.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
I don't think it is necessarily that she blames him for it, but the fact the he will forever be tied to Prim's death in her mind.
Spoiler: show
I think so, too. Gale would forever be associated with those bombs. I also think the final reasoning for Peeta is about hope -she needs the flower of hope that Peeta represents to her, not the flame of the fight that Gale stands for.


Quote:
Question: I wonder if the Districts
Spoiler: show
remained with their former specialties under Payton. We know that eventually D12 is going to a factory to make medicines. All districts were destroyed after all, they all needed rebuilding ...
Spoiler: show
I think they may have diversified - we hear of a factory being built in 12, and the ground being ploughed for agriculture. I think having the district specialities was a way of keeping people powerless, and dependent. Now, with more freedom, the districts can probably choose what they're going to do.


Spoiler: show
I think what Plutarch says to Katniss at the end is so true, and so relevant -"Now we're in the sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never be repeated. But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction" I think history has proven that it's so true.


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  #88  
Old September 1st, 2010, 3:57 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Originally Posted by furrydice
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Finnick's story was so horrible, it went to show that the victors' special treatment from the Capitol is a lie, too. And that Snow was even lower than he already seemed.
How have we not talked more about Finnick????
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How tragic was his story. It was such a comment on the whole concept of fame - having one public face/persona and then your private life. But the horror that they put the victors through. It makes me want to go back and think about all the other victors that were mentioned. And I wonder if they treat the D2 victors better than the others. I remember Katniss' comment about sometimes victors children are reaped, and the announcers saying there was bad luck in that family, but she feeling there was too much coincidence. It was like wow what were they holding over that victor's head that they reaped the children for.

I do wish Finnick didn't die. I wanted him to be happy for some reason. But it was a nice touch that she left Annie with a baby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by furrydice
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I think what Plutarch says to Katniss at the end is so true, and so relevant -"Now we're in the sweet period where everyone agrees that our recent horrors should never be repeated. But collective thinking is usually short-lived. We're fickle, stupid beings with poor memories and a great gift for self-destruction" I think history has proven that it's so true.
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I think that is so true. And so telling of human nature. I remember my HS History teacher talking about how history seems to have 20 year cycles - as in from one recession to another it is usually about 20 years. As in it is about the time it takes to forget one thing, 'progress' to something else, then fall again. I think that was part of the rationale of the Quarter Quell. After 20 something years of district's complacency of regular horror, let's throw on something really bad to remind them of our true power.


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We didn't see Katniss' trial either. Who knows who else advocated in her defense! I can definitely see Gale getting involved. Another thing we'll never be sure of unless Collins goes the Rowling route and starts answering some questions. Again, for my peace of mind, I will think so.
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Yes, clearly Gale is respected, so he may have helped out at the trial.

Something you wrote sparked this idea: Peeta didn't 'go after' Katniss, he just came back and started acting like himself. Planting the bushes, moving on with life in a messed up but ordinary way. I can see him 'creeping up' on Katniss the way that Annie 'crept up' on Finnick.
And PLEASE Collins, do a post book Q&A!


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Old September 1st, 2010, 10:31 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

I have Mockingjay! Now let's hope that I can read it quickly.


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Old September 2nd, 2010, 7:56 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Yes, clearly Gale is respected, so he may have helped out at the trial.

Something you wrote sparked this idea: Peeta didn't 'go after' Katniss, he just came back and started acting like himself. Planting the bushes, moving on with life in a messed up but ordinary way. I can see him 'creeping up' on Katniss the way that Annie 'crept up' on Finnick.
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Oh yes, most definitely. I believe so, too. I like it that way, 'cause after all that would have provided Katniss the time to get herself there, emotionally. I think Katniss embraces Peeta because it's the only way she stands a chance to move on forward after the HG and war, because of how Peeta is and what he represents. Peeta is her chance at healing. (Though even after Peeta, she struggles, as we saw in the epilogue, but well ... )

This ending is so sad. I can't get over it. Part of me feels like our "heroes" didn't get redemption, they just got beaten up in the end. Maybe that's why I ended up as an emotional wreck as well.

One week after finishing it, I think CF is still my favorite of the series.


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  #91  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 5:58 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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How have we not talked more about Finnick????
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How tragic was his story. It was such a comment on the whole concept of fame - having one public face/persona and then your private life. But the horror that they put the victors through. It makes me want to go back and think about all the other victors that were mentioned. And I wonder if they treat the D2 victors better than the others. I remember Katniss' comment about sometimes victors children are reaped, and the announcers saying there was bad luck in that family, but she feeling there was too much coincidence. It was like wow what were they holding over that victor's head that they reaped the children for.
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Oh, wow. I hadn't thought of that, I was thinking the Capitol arranged the selection of victor's children for the dramatic effect. But this makes so much more sense. They couldn't harm the victors without a public reaction, and watching their kids suffer would be a far worse punishment. Actually, it reminds me of Haymitch's family and girlfriend, who were murdered after his victory in the Quell. Possibly something similar happened to Johanna, as she says there's nobody left that she cares about.



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This ending is so sad. I can't get over it. Part of me feels like our "heroes" didn't get redemption, they just got beaten up in the end. Maybe that's why I ended up as an emotional wreck as well.
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I think they helped to make a better world for their children, but the cost of doing so was something they could never get over. They were still very young when they experienced such horrors and grief, and I think it's very realistic to show that it never left them.


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  #92  
Old September 2nd, 2010, 6:42 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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I think they helped to make a better world for their children, but the cost of doing so was something they could never get over. They were still very young when they experienced such horrors and grief, and I think it's very realistic to show that it never left them.
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I understand this was the side of story Collins wanted to write, and I understand why she would want to do that. I agree it's intrinsically a hard reality to deal with. Realistic can be depressing. I just don't think our heroes got much redemption in the end. I'm not arguing it necessarily. I do think Collins wanted to emphasized the grim side of war and its aftermath. I think our characters bare the consequences. Even their future so-called happiness (I'm still not sure if it was or not) was tainted forever. But I did get a sense that in many ways Katniss was just ... surviving at the end, struggling to survive, holding on to survive. (I guess this was also what Beatifically meant when she said Katniss felt sort of "detached" at the end. That struggle is evident. It doesn't come naturally even after all those years.)

That's how I read it anyway, and what I have had to make peace during this last week. Not only for Katniss but for a lot other characters. It's in Peeta's nature to be "a light". To me, his ending was nicely balanced between the good and the bad. I felt that though the games never left him, he was ok in the end. I just didn't get that same impression for Katniss. I still have trouble as to what to make of it. As for Gale's end, that was just left inconclusive, so it leaves that sense of wonder.


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  #93  
Old September 4th, 2010, 8:26 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

I just got the entire trilogy the other day and finished the Hunger Games last night. I've read the first couple chapters of Catching Fire so far.

They're really good! I went into these books knowing nothing about them other than the fact that they were supposed to be really good, and I wasn't disappointed. Definitely reccomended.


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Old September 4th, 2010, 9:23 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

Finally got a copy of Hunger Games on loan from the library! Only took a week or so on the waiting list !

I'm sure it will be an enjoyable read.


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Old September 6th, 2010, 1:39 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

Just finished Catching Fire! I was a bit confused, but I've worked it all together. It's so good! Time for Mockingjay.


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  #96  
Old September 6th, 2010, 4:38 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

Am I the only one that DIDN'T like Mockingjay? Because I hated it. Vehemently.
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The whole book seemed flat to me. No emotion. And none of the characters seemed like themselves. Just card-board cutouts of what they used to be. I found myself rushing through the whole thing just to get to "the good part," and then finding when I was finished that there wasn't one. The first part was agonizingly slow. And just stupid. C'mon, arrows bringing down a fighter plane? And the propos just seemed dumb to me. And then Peeta is rescued in like two seconds. (What??) I thought the hijacking was a nice twist (one that I was halfway expecting, though), but I think that she ruined it. She could've made it so much better, if Katniss had actually tried to help him find himself again. Honestly, her lack of thinking about Peeta seemed unrealistic. And then the little romance/emotion there was in there seemed fake or something. Like Suzanne was just like, "Hey, I haven't put any emotion in here in awhile, so I better throw some in." Katniss just bugged me the whole time. I never really liked her much, but in this one I disliked her even more.

To me, all the people who should've died didn't and all the people who did die were just random. I fully expected Haymitch to die. He's the mentor. The mentor always dies. But instead he stays alive...and does what. Nothing. Boggs was cool, but he did need to die. Finnick, on the other hand, didn't. I really think he should've been left alive to be with Annie. There's so much depressing **** in here; there needs to be SOMETHING happy. Because the rebirth of Panem and the prospect of a new life and all is just not hopeful if there's not one shred of happiness left. I might understand it if Finnick went out heroically saving someone or something, but he just randomly got left behind and devoured by mutts...okay...(And did anyone else think it odd that Annie just sat there calmly right after the love her life was decapitated, when the reason she went insane in the first place was because her district partner was beheaded??)

And then Prim? Randomest thing ever. She literally gets blown up out of nowhere. That was pointless, IMO.

But beside from all these random people dying, random people are left alive. Effie?? Who cares about her? Why is it important that she stays alive? I guess so the whole original team is still intact in the end or something.

I'm a huge Peeta supporter, so of course I wanted him to end up with Katniss. But I hated the ending and the epilogue. Where did Gale go?? He just randomly and conveniently disappeared. What the heck. IMO there should've been a more dramatic separating between him and Katniss. I mean, he didn't even say goodbye or anything. He just went to district two without another word, and she never hears from him again. ???

Then the whole romance is covered in about three pages. And there's no emotion. Katniss is so detached. It's like she never really did fall in love with Peeta. He was just the one that was there to comfort her. And so she's like, "Okay, well, I'm all alone here and there's no one else, so I guess I'm in love with you." WUT. And then in the epilogue, all she does is talk about how she's depressed and her kids dance on people's graves. I understand that the war was devastating and horrible and all, but if we're going to have a "happy" ending here, can we at least end up on a slightly optimistic note? There were some lines that hinted at hope and happiness, but they were too smothered in depression and darkness to have lasting merit in the end.

Over all, I was VERY disappointed. Suzanne took one of my favorite book series...and butchered the end of it.


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Old September 6th, 2010, 4:43 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

I'm not very far into Mockingjay yet, but I wanted to share something I noticed.

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Cinna. He has been my favorite character since he first showed up in Hunger Games. I love how even though he's dead, he's still supporting Katniss and encouraging her. I think that he knew that she'd eventually come to the decision to be the Mockingjay. And he wanted to do all he can to make sure she's dressed to a flair. And the outfits he's made her for this time are astounding.


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Old September 6th, 2010, 11:10 pm
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Cinna. He has been my favorite character since he first showed up in Hunger Games. I love how even though he's dead, he's still supporting Katniss and encouraging her. I think that he knew that she'd eventually come to the decision to be the Mockingjay. And he wanted to do all he can to make sure she's dressed to a flair. And the outfits he's made her for this time are astounding.
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Excellent point! He was a major character without even being there. I was surprised at how much foresight he had to continue in his work. It makes me want know even more about him now.


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Am I the only one that DIDN'T like Mockingjay? Because I hated it. Vehemently.
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And none of the characters seemed like themselves. Just card-board cutouts of what they used to be.... Katniss just bugged me the whole time. I never really liked her much, but in this one I disliked her even more.
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When I first started the book I didn't expect Katniss to be so flat. But then when they brought up how she was smashed on the head with the wire coil by Johanna Mason then the whole out-of-it concussion thing made a bit more sense. I mean Thresh killed the career girl that way, so Katniss could have been badly damaged.

The characters for the most part felt different in this book, but I thought it was realistic.


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(And did anyone else think it odd that Annie just sat there calmly right after the love her life was decapitated, when the reason she went insane in the first place was because her district partner was beheaded??)
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I felt like Annie was probably at peace for the first time at the end of the book. It was the Capitol/Snow who scarred her and with them destroyed, and a new baby to consider, she probably felt safe for the first time.

But speaking of Finnick - how much did you love the secrets and understanding how much the Capitol really held over them. That the reason the Victors were willing to sacrifice themselves in the Quell was that they were under constant threat and/or abuse. They had nothing really to live for except a revolution.


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Then the whole romance is covered in about three pages. And there's no emotion. Katniss is so detached. It's like she never really did fall in love with Peeta. He was just the one that was there to comfort her. And so she's like, "Okay, well, I'm all alone here and there's no one else, so I guess I'm in love with you." WUT. And then in the epilogue, all she does is talk about how she's depressed and her kids dance on people's graves. I understand that the war was devastating and horrible and all, but if we're going to have a "happy" ending here, can we at least end up on a slightly optimistic note? There were some lines that hinted at hope and happiness, but they were too smothered in depression and darkness to have lasting merit in the end.

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I think you're probably upset because the story isn't a fairy tale or love story like it was set up to be. It turns out even though there is a 'happy ending' it's not so happy is it. It's really more of a tragedy than comedy in the classical sense of the terms. I don't think the ending is happy, but I didn't expect it to be after full on war. Peeta is the only hope mentioned at the end - and to me the love didn't happen in a traditional way. He 'crept up' on Katniss in the same way I think Annie 'crept up' on Finnick.



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Old September 7th, 2010, 1:04 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

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They had nothing really to live for except a revolution.
I REALLY love that line, HMN.

GrangerHermione, I understand, in a way, why someone would feel that way about Mockingjay.
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I can see HG and CF as of more entertainment value. Though they do have strong themes too, Mockingjay brought the themes and messages them to a whole new level. But with that, the entire series took a much deeper, realistic, powerful turn. The book should have felt different than the other two. In my case, though, I felt completely overwhelmed about what I was getting in return. It took me by surprise.

Collins really pushed for a war story, an accounting of the "horrors" of war, and she was very upfront about it. She didn't sugar-coated anything. Was it too much? , maybe, maybe not, depending how one looks at it. I think that's understandable. For example, I'm not sure when I'm going to reread this book, not because I didn't like it, but because what it did to me emotionally. I don't think I'm ready to experience that again. Not yet.

But I did find the characters' responses logical, considering the setting of the story. The characters were intrinsically different because their circumstances changed them ... war changed them, turned them into what they became.

I think Mockingjay deserves a deeper look than the previous two books. I read this one time, and I always hold to it dearly: "What one gets out of the a book depends on what one bring to the act of reading".

I believe Collins went with a very clear idea of what she wanted to show us. Judging by all of our reactions (good and bad), I think she accomplished it. Us feeling gutted, hollow, vacant, getting that the ending it's not-so-happy-at-all ... I think that's was her intention. It was a grim ending for a very grim tale. I do agree that we didn't get much conclusion for a lot of characters, but I think Collins didn't want to take away for the main message of the book (though we were all craving for it at the end after that reading, )

About Prim's death in particular ... I couldn't disagree more. Prim's death is basically Katniss undoing, the conclusion of the inner transformation we have seen go through since she was reaped. This is what finally made Katniss the person she was at the end of this whole ordeal. How can that be pointless?

Prim was the reason Katniss even went to the Hunger Games! Katniss wanted to protect her. She sacrifice herself to save her sister. Events unfolded. Katniss was now fighting for a revolution, the final freedom. And even then it was out her control. Prim died. I think that's one serious contender for the most powerful moment of the entire series, in my book nonetheless. This was justified, IMO one that should have been fought, but no matter what side your fighting for, it's a high price to pay.


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  #100  
Old September 7th, 2010, 2:56 am
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Re: The Hunger Games

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Prim was the reason Katniss even went to the Hunger Games! Katniss wanted to protect her. She sacrifice herself to save her sister. Events unfolded. Katniss was now fighting for a revolution, the final freedom. And even then it was out her control. Prim died. I think that's one serious contender for the most powerful moment of the entire series, in my book nonetheless. This was justified, IMO one that should have been fought, but no matter what side your fighting for, it's a high price to pay.
In addition to that,
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to learn that the person who has engineered the whole revolution is the one to put Prim on the front lines and purposefully kill her - that was mind blowing for me. If Katniss had simply died as Coin wanted her to, Prim would have been safe. It was Katniss' knack for survival, and really Gale's hunting and trapping skills, that killed Prim. But without the death of the one person Katniss truly loved and wanted to protect, she would have done it all for nothing. It was Prim's death that forced the assassination of Coin. Without that there would be more Hunger Games (with Capitol children) and who knows what other kind of atrocities.


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