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Gay Rights in the 21st Century



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 5th, 2008, 10:24 pm
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Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Greetings,

Since the Proposition 8 thread has done it's course and the results of that are known, it's probably a better idea to have a broader thread on gay rights, not just restricted to the USA, so we can see how the issue relates elsewhere.

Now we've tried these gay rights threads before. Religious arguments are used. People get short tempered. Mods intervene. So guys, expect the mods to heavily moderate this thread. Expect to see [Staff Edits] as well as Admin & Mod Warnings. Finally, expect that some of you may be dropped from the area for a week or more if you can't temper your responses.

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Questions

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?

9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?

10. If you are against gay marriage, do you support civil unions or something similar that would give couples legal benefits? If not, why not?

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.



Last edited by Hes; November 22nd, 2008 at 2:25 pm.
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  #2  
Old November 5th, 2008, 10:45 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Questions

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?
I think it's a part of the broader movement. It isn't a separate issue any more than women's rights or the rights different racial groups seek.
2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?
I honestly don't know.
3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.
I live in the USA, California specifically.
Gay marriage is not legal as a federal mandate. It is up to each state to determine the legality, and no state is required to recognize a gay marriage from another state if they don't recognize them there.
In California, some 18,000 gay people were married in the last four or so months, and those marriages are supposed to be protected. Outside of that, we have domestic partnership laws in California which are supposed to give similar or equal rights to gay couples as to married ones.
4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage?
Tradition, "it's not right," religious beliefs...
Personally, I don't believe anyone has the right to dictate another person's life. And refusing rights to certain groups of people based on something they can't control, like race or gender or orientation, is just wrong to me.
5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?
I don't believe so. Why should they have to respect someone else's beliefs when their own beliefs are being trampled?
6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?
Yes, much the same way they overthrew laws banning interracial marriages.
7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?
No, as long as the country works on a separation of church and state. The matters are either separate or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.
8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?
I'd say yes, much the same way Catholic churches have the right to not marry non-Catholics. There are churches who are willing to performs those marriages, and I can't see the sense in going somewhere you know you aren't approved of looking for a marriage ceremony.
9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?
This sounds horrible, but the truth is that the proponents of the proposition lied. They preyed on fears of parents, and made the issue seem to be more about children when all it had to do with was adding this phrase to the California constitution:
Prop 8 amendment to the CA constitutionSect. 7.5
Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.

As you can see, nowhere does it mention children or families.
I think it passed because many voters were under the impression that by this bill passing, their kids would be taught in school about gay marriage, and many feared that kids would be taught to be gay. The sad thing is that really had nothing to do with the proposition itself, but rather the propaganda drummed up by the proponents.


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  #3  
Old November 5th, 2008, 10:46 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.
link

Extract:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiki
Same-sex marriage in Spain was legalized in 2005. In 2004, the nation's newly elected Socialist government, led by President José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero, began a campaign for its legalisation, including the right of adoption by same-sex couples(...)Same-sex marriage became legal in Spain on Sunday, 3 July 2005,[2] making it the third country in the world to do so, after the Netherlands and Belgium and 17 days ahead of Canada.

The ratification of this law was not devoid of conflict, despite support from 66% of the population.[3] Roman Catholic authorities in particular were adamantly opposed, criticising what they regarded as the weakening of the meaning of marriage.[4] Other associations expressed concern over the possibility of lesbians and gays adopting children.[5] Demonstrations for and against the law drew thousands of people from all parts of Spain.
bolding by me

So regarding other countries or states fighting for it, if Spain the Catholic could do it, you can too
Because honestly, right now living here, after those massificated demostrations nobody cares now. They care about unemployment, the crisis, terrorism and Obama

I have the feeling I have posted this already. Hmmm

Oh and if anyone is interested....the apocalypes has not arrived in Spain. Spain has actually one of the strongest economies in Europe. The sun still rises. Het couples are not dropping dead or divorcing or feeling ... undervalued.

So no fear people! It actually doesn't hurt!


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  #4  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:00 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?

I consider it part of the broader civil rights movement. Civil rights has different movements within it, such as racial equality and women's rights, but it's all part of civil rights.

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

I believe it depends on the state. I believe some states have made laws supporting this kind of equality, but not all of them have.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

Gay marriage and civil unions are allowed in a small handful of states.

4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage

Most of it appears to be based on religious belief that homosexuality is wrong or that marriage is a religious institution for a man and a woman only.

Other people claim that "it's just not natural." Some people simply seem to hate gay people and offer no reasoning whatsoever.

I've yet to see any arguments that I felt were reasonable.

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?

No. There was a time when "harmony" required black and white children to attend separate schools. No doubt there were parents who didn't want their children going to school with African American children. This didn't excuse segregation. I think churches should retain the right to marry only those people whom they wish, which is a right they currently have. But I don't think the government has a responsibility to make sure that nobody is offended. We already have things that are legal that go against some people's beliefs.

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?


Yes, I see it as a civil rights and a constitutional issue.

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?

No, no more than my spiritual beliefs alone should dictate other people's lives. I respect that people have differing beliefs, and would never criticize someone for having a religious objection to homosexuality. Everyone must believe as their conscience dictates. But the fact is that not everyone in the U.S. belongs to the same religion, and not everyone of the same religion even believes the same thing. There are Christian churches that gladly perform and recognize gay marriage. If the only reason to ban gay marriage is that some people have religious objections to it, then that is unfair to the many people who don't share that belief.

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?

They should absolutely have that right. Churches already have a right, as a rule, not to marry certain people. The Catholic church reserves the right not to grant marriages to people who have been divorced. Some churches won't do interfaith marriages. Both of these things are legal, but are not recognized by some churches.

9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?


I think the proponents put up a dirty fight, honestly. They relied on propaganda to encourage emotional responses from people. I think it passed because there's a lot of prejudice, and because the propaganda created fears in people that they may not have otherwise had.


  #5  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:02 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?

I'm afraid I'm net very well acquainted with the term "civil rights movement", but I believe gay rights are a part of the broader concept of human rights, yes.

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

*snort* No. Not at all. There are no civil unions, and technically you can sue an employer for not hiring you for bing gay, but in reality, it will be laughed off.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

No, neither. I aksed a friend of mine who will be a law graduate in a matter of days, so he's reading up on civil law extensiely right now. He said no gay unions of any sort are recognised by Bulgarian law. We don't have civil unions for heterosexual couples as of now either, as far as I know - only marriage.

4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage

Well, the reasons I hear around me usually are:

1. homosexuality is unnatural
2. they are too much "in-your-face" already
3. marriage is between a man and a woman, period (not sure if this even qualifies as a reason, but I hear it often enough so I thought I'd post it.)
4. the ****ing ******s should be beaten up, not given rights, they're freaks and dangerous to society

and the rest are variations of those.

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?

No. I think they have every right to fight for an equal standing.

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?

Yes. Because judges are qualified to make decisions on legal rights, whereas the masses aren't. And because minorities need a way to defend their interests too.

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?

That's tough... I have very high respect for religion. I am a believer myself. But I also believe that religious sentiments should not infringe on the rights of others. Especially in secular states.

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?

I think yes. After all, it would be violence to force them to marry a couple against their will.

9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?

I have no answer, only speculations. I think it's partly due to people's reluctancy, or inability to quite accept gay relationships as completely equal to heterosexual relationships, partly due to prejudice against homosexuality in general, and partly due to the advertising, I suppose. But I really have no idea.


  #6  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:15 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?

A part of the civil rights movement. If gender and race shouldn't effect rights then neither should sexual orientation.

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

Yes, or are least as far as I know they are.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

We have civil unions, not quite the same but it gives some sort of chance to show the same things as marriage, it's better than nothing. Gay adoption is also legal, although there was a problem with catholic adoption agencies saying they'd have to close otherwise by turning away gay couples they'd be going against the law. Even as a catholic I think that's sad, I can understand how they had to go with the offical church line but I'm sure closing the adoption agencies leads to worse things than letting gay people adopt children. I also know there's a thing about gay (men I think) not being able to donate blood, something about the AIDs risk, it's a stupid rule, surely people know now that gay people aren't more likely to have AIDs?

4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage

The usual, religion, it 'not being natural'.

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?

No, not really, not if it's not what they want, unless they want to get married in a church that doesn't support gay rights because in that case it's not respectful of beliefs

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?

It depends really if it's a close thing, or if the popular vote would cause problems then maybe yes, but otherwise what's the point of voting if it's just going to be overturned?

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?

No, religion shouldn't come into politics. The only problem is that churches shouldn't be forced to accept a law, if it's against their beliefs they should be able to say no (as in refuse to marry a couple, for example) you shouldn't expect people to change or go against their beliefs for anything

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?

Yes, like I said above

9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?

I don't really know enough to comment

10. If you are against gay marriage, do you support civil unions or something similar that would give couples legal benefits? If not, why not?

n/a


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  #7  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:15 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Two more questions added about gay adoption.

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.


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  #8  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:25 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
Two more questions added about gay adoption.

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.
I answered 11 above.

Yes, I think gay people should be allowed to adopt. I don't think a persons sexual orientation has an affect on whether they'll be a good parent or not. There are probably plenty of gay people out there who would make fantastic parents, and straight people who won't, and vis-versa. I could see kids getting teased because they have 2 dad's or 2 mums but kids find ways to tease other kids, I don't think it would make more kids be teased, and if kids are taught properly and once it becomes the norm it shouldn't be a problem.

I think I talked about the above in the gay adoption thread at some point


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  #9  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:29 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?

Part of the same. Why should anybody's right to equality be greater than anyone elses?


2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

I'm not really sure but I think its getting better, there has certainly been a lot of press recently which I think is a good thing.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

Civil Unions which I think come with the same rights and committments as marriage but I'm not 100% sure. (UK by the way)


4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage

I think people's religious beliefs are quite high up. It is almost certain that if it didn't say homosexuality was wrong in the Bible or the Koran, it would have been much more of a non-issue. I do think a lot of it just comes down to people disliking what is different and being generally intollerant. It would be interesting to see if we were able to put people who vote both for and against gay marriage today into the culture and society of Southern USA at the height of the Civil Rights Movement and see how the votes corresponded.

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?

Well thats up to them. If that was their choice I certainly wouldn't not judge them or considder them weak for doing so but I would also support them all the way in their fight for true equality.


6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?

That completely depends on the legal system. I know as a law student in the UK that if Parliament were to vote to outlaw gay marriage or civil unions then the courts would be in no position to overrule that. However if they did want to do that it would mean ammending the Human Rights Act 1998 which would not only be almost politically impossible but would also not go down very well with the rest of Europe as the Act just puts the European Convention of Human Rights into UK law

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?

No why should somebody's religious views (or political or just down right bigotted views for that matter) be able to enforce themselves on the private, family lives of others. Religion is full of strength and beauty, but in my opinion, that is religion at its very worst; acting as an agent of hate, discrimination and arrogance rather than love as I thought it was supposed to represent.

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?

No, change the word gay to black, poor, immigrant or Manchester United supporting and it immedietly becomes clear how unfair and backwards that would be. Althoug why a couple would choose to celebrate the happiest day in their lives with an orginisation who thinks the evil and hell bound is beyond me.


9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?


I shudder to think. Represents one of the few clouds which cast a shadow on what was otherwise a great day for Political Progress.
10. If you are against gay marriage, do you support civil unions or something similar that would give couples legal benefits? If not, why not?


  #10  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:30 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

Again, I think it depends on the state. Arkansas, I believe, passed a movement prohibiting gay adoption (forgive me if I'm wrong). Other states allow it.

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.

Absolutely. I see no reason why not. Gay people can make excellent parents, and as long as they fit the requirements and can provide a good home, I don't think there should be discrimination. Plenty of gays and lesbians already raise children.


  #11  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:45 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
Two more questions added about gay adoption.

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.
In the United States, it is once again up to each individual state to determine whether or not they want to allow it. There are only four states that allow it at the moment, Vermont, California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey, but it can be difficult.

I personally don't see why they shouldn't be allowed. Gay people are born that way. I can't fathom why anyone would actively choose the kind of persecution homosexual people face, and it really riles me up when people try to claim that children raised by gay people will grow up gay.

Is that why children raised by straight people are all straight?

Meh. I think that as long as they can pass the same tests any other couple has to go through before being allowed to adopt, they should be allowed as well. Having parents who love you and support you has to be a better thing than allowing kids with no family to be shunted from one place to another, never creating lasting emotional bonds and suffering for it.


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  #12  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:47 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?

Pretty much. One of the more glaring differences from the US is that in the military far from "don't ask, don't tell" the Australian Defence Forces have an official contingent in the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.

It really depends on the state or territory.

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?

If the case can be made that such laws and amendments are unconstitutional, yes.


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  #13  
Old November 5th, 2008, 11:58 pm
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by unconvinced View Post
It is almost certain that if it didn't say homosexuality was wrong in the Bible or the Koran, it would have been much more of a non-issue.
This is just not true. My country was communist for 45 years - geenrations of people raised as atheists. The vast majority of today's population in Bulgaria are grossly ignorant about religion and couldn't tell you how many Testaments there are in the Bible, let alone what it says about homosexuality. They were not taught any religious values. And yet homophobia is raging here. It's acceptable. It's tolerated. Gay people often face physical aggression for no other reason but their homosexuality. You get all the "it's not ight" and "it's unnatural" sentiments here as well, without any sort of religion to back them. So I think it's the other way round - I think often religion is used as a cover/excuse for deeper objections, rather than being the source for those objections.

Quote:
I do think a lot of it just comes down to people disliking what is different and being generally intollerant.
I think this is it, mostly.


  #14  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:05 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicant View Post
In the United States, it is once again up to each individual state to determine whether or not they want to allow it. There are only four states that allow it at the moment, Vermont, California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey, but it can be difficult.
Unless I am mistaken, CT just asserted an unconstitutional ruling in that regard also. I'd have to check, a professor in my comparative constitution seminar came in one morning and advised the class of this, but I haven't actually seen the ruling myself. Nonetheless, several other States have a clause in their constitution that states marriage is to be between one woman and one man. I did have to read cases regarding the change in law for Canada, the UK and Spain where gay marriages were ultimately allowed - so some other countries have made general rulings, while in the US it is still a states issue.

I am unsure what they are going to do in California. If they protect the rights of those 17,000 or so marriages they already performed when it was found legal to do so under the State constitution, they are going to have a huge equal protection violation going on in disallowing others in similar circumstances to have that same right (although that could be trumped with a grandfather clause rationale, even though those have traditionally been used for economic issues - but it would forestall a Article I, Sec. 10 objection which would be more important I'd imagine). But I'd imagine that won't stop those behind the recent proposition to amend the constitution in their efforts to ensure those marriages are nullified. But that will entail re-addressing the issue and looking at the constitutionality of the new provision. In the past, state decisions that involved unequal treatment based on 'stoppage' were upheld (that is the grandfather clause), but as I menitoned, those were economic issues, where as here the foundation argument could be characterized as one of liberty, freedom and personal identity rights for all beings and particularly in association with marriage (a fundamental right). So who knows where all of that would lead. In as far as constitutional law goes, it will be a very interesting process to watch; and for others it will be a very hot button issue in any case I'd imagine.


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  #15  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:06 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?

I'm not informed about that.

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.

Yes, they should, after they prove they can provide a healthy environment for the child,like any other couple would be required to. If single people are allowed to adopt, I see no reason for gay couples to be denied that right.


  #16  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:15 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoana View Post
This is just not true. My country was communist for 45 years - geenrations of people raised as atheists. The vast majority of today's population in Bulgaria are grossly ignorant about religion and couldn't tell you how many Testaments there are in the Bible, let alone what it says about homosexuality. They were not taught any religious values. And yet homophobia is raging here. It's acceptable. It's tolerated. Gay people often face physical aggression for no other reason but their homosexuality. You get all the "it's not ight" and "it's unnatural" sentiments here as well, without any sort of religion to back them. So I think it's the other way round - I think often religion is used as a cover/excuse for deeper objections, rather than being the source for those objections.
Well I can't talk about your country because I don't know the situation there but in mine then much of the anti-homosexual movement does come from the church. It was the Catholic adoption agencies which refused point blank to allow gay couples to adopt from them. It is the Anglican Church which is currently undergoing a great schism as to whether to allow gay bishops. Narrow minded bigots tend not to be very good at pressuring politicians, Churches and religios groups, however are. I'd say that if you are talking about on the street homophobia then, no religion doesn't play a part, but at an political level then it is the driving force.


  #17  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:16 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
Unless I am mistaken, CT just asserted an unconstitutional ruling in that regard also. I'd have to check, a professor in my comparative constitution seminar came in one morning and advised the class of this, but I haven't actually seen the ruling myself. Nonetheless, several other States have a clause in their constitution that states marriage is to be between one woman and one man. I did have to read cases regarding the change in law for Canada, the UK and Spain where gay marriages were ultimately allowed - so some other countries have made it a general issue, while in the US it is still a states issue.

I am unsure what they are going to do in California. If they protect the rights of those 17,000 or so marriages they already performed when it was found legal to do so under the State constitution, they are going to have a huge equal protection violation going on in disallowing others in similar circumstances to have that same right. So I'd imagine that those who were behind the recent proposition to amend the constitution feel it of great importance to ensure those marriages are nullified. But that will entail re-addressing the issue and looking at the constitutionality of the new provision. In the past, state decisions that involved what appeared to be unequal treatment were allowed under the rationale that the state had found it the best way to handle a situation, but those were economic issues, so it may be difficult to try and make an analogous argument in that light. In as far as constitutional law goes, it will be a very interesting process to watch; and for others it will be a very hot button issue in any case I'd imagine.
Oh, no, I'm talking about the rights of gay individuals and couples to adopt.


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  #18  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:20 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Oh, . Well both are very interesting constitutional law questions. Although I believe that adoptions have largely been argued in terms of family law - but constitutional issues are brought up in those cases. However, the question turns on the best interests of the child in many states and as you point out, judges are given a lot of discretion in that regard on a case by case basis.


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  #19  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:21 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Questions

1. Do you consider gay rights to be a part of the broader civil rights movement or a separate issue?
I don't see how gays are different to any other group so I'd say civil rights.

2. Are gay people treated equally in law in your country, in terms of job security, benefits etc?
Yes. Well we don't have gay 'marriage' but in pretty much other aspect they're treated equally.

3. Is gay marriage legal in your country? Or do you have civil unions or partner recognition decelerations that afford similar legal rights? Please expand.
I think some states had civil unions (but I also have a feeling that was over turned recently) but not marriage. I should look that up.

4. What are some the reasons you've heard or believe for opposing equal rights for homosexuals, including gay marriage
Religion is the big one I hear but I don't see how that's relevant. We don't all follow the same religion so I shouldn't have to do what X people do just because they believe in something I do not.
It's just not natural doesn't make sense to me. We were all born from human parents, live in the same world etc. How are homosexual people unnatural? They aren't homosexual on a whim, it's something you''re born with IMO.
Save the kids is one of the more lame excuses I've heard IMO. I've been around homosexual teenagers, adults, teachers, bosses etc as a child and it hasn't warped my mind. I didn't 'turn gay'.
I'm sure there are more but those are the ones I hear the most.

5. Should homosexual couples, irrespective of their own spiritual or religious beliefs accept a separate but equal policy for the sake of harmony (in regards to marriage)?
I don't understand why this is an issue. Homosexual people are no different from heterosexual people except that they love someone of the same sex. I don't see how this qualifies them for anything below marriage (IMO they can have all the same rights as a marriage but if it's called anything else then it is 'below' marriage).

6. Do you believe judges have the right to overturn the popular vote on issues such as gay marriage?
If they deem it unconstitutional yes.

7. Do you believe that opposing religious views should be taken into account when deciding what rights to extend to gay people?
No. To be honest religion has no business sticking its head into gay marriage IMO. When I get married it will be to a man but it wont be a religious ceremony. Religion ha no place in MY marriage either.

8. Should Church congregations or organizations have the right to deny gay couples the right to marry in their Churches?
Absolutely. They should be able to turn away anybody they like.

9. In regards to the recent Prop 8 vote in California, USA, why do you think it succeeded/failed with the voters? How was the battle fought?
I don't actually know the result but from the ads I saw there were a lot of dirty tactics and the 'yes' side put out a lot of misleading ads.

10. If you are against gay marriage, do you support civil unions or something similar that would give couples legal benefits? If no, why not?
N/a

11. What legal rights do gay people have to adopt children in your country?
Honestly don't know.

12. Should gay people be allowed to adopt children? Please expand your answer.
Absolutely. There are so many children in orphanages around the world I think it would be foolish to turn away potentially loving parents because of their sexual preferences. There is no conclusive study which proves a child needs a mum and a dad to grow up 'normally'. There are kids all over the world who grow up without a male/female role model and turn out just fine.


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  #20  
Old November 6th, 2008, 12:30 am
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Re: Gay Rights in the 21st Century

Quote:
Originally Posted by unconvinced View Post
Well I can't talk about your country because I don't know the situation there but in mine then much of the anti-homosexual movement does come from the church. It was the Catholic adoption agencies which refused point blank to allow gay couples to adopt from them. It is the Anglican Church which is currently undergoing a great schism as to whether to allow gay bishops. Narrow minded bigots tend not to be very good at pressuring politicians, Churches and religios groups, however are. I'd say that if you are talking about on the street homophobia then, no religion doesn't play a part, but at an political level then it is the driving force.
Yes, but the question was about the usual reasons people have for being aginst homosexuality (wasn't it?). I don't like it when religion takes all the blame when there are so many non-religious people who hate homosexuality just as much and are even openly aggressive toward it; and when there are politicians who vote against gay rights without being religious in the slightest, and when secular state with no religious pressure whatsoever (like mine) disallows even civil unions and allows open discrimination against gay people.


 
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