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Little Questions Answered v.20



 
 
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  #501  
Old December 4th, 2011, 6:54 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Regarding the last question, we also have the very lenient detention with Hagrid given to Ginny, Neville, and Luna, as well as Ginny's exclusion from Hogsmeade (where Snatchers could get to her more easily).


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  #502  
Old December 7th, 2011, 12:11 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

As to Horcruxes, I agree that they are basically just "anchors" to life, that as long as they exist without being destroyed, keep the main soul from leaving Earth; they are not individual "refills" to be used when a new soul is needed to start over because the person has died.

And I also agree that the diary was a Horcrux plus some other forms of magic and was therefore a different sort of bird entirely that had more than one set of rules governing what it could and could not do.


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  #503  
Old December 8th, 2011, 10:05 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Why didn't Harry's wand change allegiance to Neville when he disarmed Harry in OOtP?


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  #504  
Old December 8th, 2011, 10:24 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhanax315 View Post
Why didn't Harry's wand change allegiance to Neville when he disarmed Harry in OOtP?
There's a quote from DH by Ollivander talking about wands:
"These connections are complex. An initial attraction, and then a mutual quest for experience, the wand learning from the wizard, the wizard from the wand."
as well as the oft-quoted
"The wand chooses the wizard"
It's as simple as Harry's wand still chosing Harry when Neville disarms him, still maintaining the mutual quest for experience that harry and his wand share. Neville doesn't win the wand because Harry's wand's allegience hasn't changed.

Perhaps wands in this sense are like the one ring in the Lord of the Rings - it decided to abandon Gollum in the cave before Bilbo finds it - and wands, similarly, could decide to abandon their wizard once their (the wand and wizard's) interests begin to diverge.


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Last edited by Goddess_Clio; December 8th, 2011 at 10:28 pm.
  #505  
Old December 8th, 2011, 10:48 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

I think intent is involved as well. JKR says this about the Elder Wand:
Quote:
To truly own the Elder Wand, which means to receive the full benefits, double-edged though it is, of all its power, you have to have conquered the previous owner.
Seems this might apply to wands in general. When Neville disarmed Harry, they were just practicing weren’t they? Intent to actually conquer Harry and therefore win his wand probably wasn't present.


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  #506  
Old December 9th, 2011, 5:11 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
I think intent is involved as well. JKR says this about the Elder Wand:


Seems this might apply to wands in general. When Neville disarmed Harry, they were just practicing weren’t they? Intent to actually conquer Harry and therefore win his wand probably wasn't present.
They were practicing at DA mettings, not when they were in the Department of Mysteries.


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  #507  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:48 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by xhanax315 View Post
They were practicing at DA mettings, not when they were in the Department of Mysteries.
Sorry, does this refer to some accidental disarming by Neville in the DOM? I don't have my book handy.

I believe that even in a real battle scenario, if a misdirected spell by Neville had hit Harry's wand, there still would be no effect regarding ownership because Neville had no intent to conquer Harry. And I think the wand would recognize that.


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  #508  
Old December 11th, 2011, 4:48 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by HedwigOwl View Post
Sorry, does this refer to some accidental disarming by Neville in the DOM? I don't have my book handy.

I believe that even in a real battle scenario, if a misdirected spell by Neville had hit Harry's wand, there still would be no effect regarding ownership because Neville had no intent to conquer Harry. And I think the wand would recognize that.
I completely agree. It all comes down to the definition of conquering, and the fact that magic, and especially wand magic, is consistently shown to have a lot to do with intent.


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  #509  
Old December 11th, 2011, 5:25 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by willfitz View Post
I completely agree. It all comes down to the definition of conquering, and the fact that magic, and especially wand magic, is consistently shown to have a lot to do with intent.
Precisely the way I see it too... Much of it depends on the wand as well. Not all wands will be as easy to conquer as the Elder Wand. A wand made to be unbeatable that is the easiest to be conquered and taken by new owners... Interestingly contradictory, but so very much like Death to slip in a catch like that...



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Last edited by captain_mills; December 11th, 2011 at 5:43 am.
  #510  
Old December 11th, 2011, 5:44 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_mills View Post
Precisely the way I see it too... Much of it depends on the wand as well. Not all wands will be as easy to conquer as the Elder Wand. A wand made to be unbeatable that is the easiest to be conquered and taken by new owners... Interestingly contradictory, but so very much like Death to slip in a catch like that...

Well, if I may break down the semantics, I'd use the term "simpler" to describe how the Elder Wand switches allegiance, not "easier." I mean, conquering someone could be no easy task at all. However, I think I know what you're getting at; it holds no loyalties, so if you conquer a person, you don't need to worry about it resisting it's knew master. It's absolutely fickle and, if I may, "Slytherinish."


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  #511  
Old December 11th, 2011, 6:08 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

You are welcome to break down my semantics... :-) I am a physicist, not a linguist or very eloquent... :-)

The Elder wand seemed to pick up some of the cunning "slytherin-ness" of Death himself. A very obvious "catch 22" that can't be seen by those greedy enough to seek it's ownership. This kind of attitude in a wand is not common among other wands as they are less likely to switch ownership on a whim.


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  #512  
Old December 11th, 2011, 4:12 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

I don't recall reading anywhere that wand ownership rules are any different for the Elder Wand than they are for other wands. Would someone help me out with a reference or two? I'm doing some research on the topic and would appreciate it!


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  #513  
Old December 11th, 2011, 5:41 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
I don't recall reading anywhere that wand ownership rules are any different for the Elder Wand than they are for other wands. Would someone help me out with a reference or two? I'm doing some research on the topic and would appreciate it!
If you're wanting to do a little research, I suggest you head over to the Elder Wand thread.

Essentially, the most important thing is this quote by JKR, which explains what was presented in the books:

Pottercast #131 Essentially, I see wands as being quasi-sentient, you know? I think they awaken to a kind of-- They're not exactly animate but they're close to it. As close to it as you can get in an object because they carry so much magic. So that's really the key point about a wand. Now, the reactions will vary from wand to wand. The Elder Wand is simply the most dispassionate and ruthless of wands in that it will only take into consideration strength. So one would expect a certain amount of loyalty from one's wand. So even if you were disarmed while carrying it, even if you lost a fight while carrying it, it has developed an affinity with you that it will not give up easily. If, however, a wand is won, properly won in an adult duel, then a wand may switch allegiance, and it will certainly work better even if it hasn't fully switched allegiance for the person who won it. So that of course is what happens when Harry takes Draco's wand from him, and that's what happens when-- But you know what I mean. Oh, yeah, Ron. The blackthorn wand from the snatcher. So that would be sort of rough and ready, common, or garden, a wand favoring the person who had the skill to take it. It would favor them. However, the Elder Wand knows no loyalty except to strength. So it's completely unsentimental. It will only go where the power is. So if you win, then you've won the wand. So you don't need to kill with it. But, as is pointed out in the books, not least by Dumbledore because it is a wand of such immense power, almost inevitably, it attracts wizards who are prepared to kill and who will kill. And also it attracts wizards like Voldemort who confuse being prepared to murder with strength.


Basically, it isn't that wand ownership rules are different, per se. All wands conform to the rule that they choose their master, and they are willing to change allegiance if another proves to be more worthy. The difference between all wands, not just the Elder Wand and the rest of the wands, is what the criteria are for proving oneself more worthy in the 'eyes' of the wand. The big key with the Elder Wand is that in order to be deemed more worthy of the wand, one must simply defeat the wand's previous owner. Regardless of all other factors, this will convince the wand to change allegiance. In the case of other wands, various other factors come into it, especially regarding personality and the level of loyalty which the wand has, and so defeating another wizard does not generally win a wizard their wand like it does with the Elder Wand.


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Last edited by willfitz; December 11th, 2011 at 5:46 pm.
  #514  
Old December 11th, 2011, 8:16 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

So in essence, the rules are not different, but the manner with which a wand goes about following the rules are... In each case, the wand chooses the wizard. However, why, when, or how a wand switches allegiance depends on the wand...


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  #515  
Old December 12th, 2011, 12:33 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Thanks for the quote, willfitz. You would think the wizard that made the wand would have worked a little more loyalty into it for his own sake at the least. Of course, maybe making it as powerful as it was, there was no room for loyalty.


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  #516  
Old December 12th, 2011, 12:34 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirrormere View Post
Thanks for the quote, willfitz. You would think the wizard that made the wand would have worked a little more loyalty into it for his own sake at the least. Of course, maybe making it as powerful as it was, there was no room for loyalty.
Of course, the story goes that Death made the wand that way in order to attract people to kill the Peverell brother in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_mills View Post
So in essence, the rules are not different, but the manner with which a wand goes about following the rules are... In each case, the wand chooses the wizard. However, why, when, or how a wand switches allegiance depends on the wand...
Precisely.


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  #517  
Old December 12th, 2011, 4:28 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

Does anyone think another Elder wand could be made? the original went back to Dumbldore's grave, but could another wand maker make an unbeatable wand? Would they want to?
Or for that matter, how many people realise that the first Elder wand is buried with Dumbledore?


  #518  
Old December 12th, 2011, 6:13 am
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

We've spent a lot of time on this conversation here, and elsewhere... However...

Another elder wand could be made rather easily I would think. Elder and it's varying similar species grow on just about every continent and are easily accessible if one could occupy the bowtruckles enough. Any core could be used, but thestral hair is difficult to come by. There are other winged horses that may provide a core very similar, but again, this is hypothetical.

Keep in mind that the Elder wand is not an unbeatable wand. It was advertized as such, but had a separate purpose (as discussed above by willfitz and I) given it by Death himself. Even if the wand was created by a Peverell brother, then it was ill-advertized as being unbeatable. It is human nature to defy that which is told to us to be impossible or unadvised. When a child is told not to touch, their first thought is "why?"


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Last edited by captain_mills; December 12th, 2011 at 6:14 am. Reason: spelling correction
  #519  
Old December 12th, 2011, 8:05 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

One thing i never understood. How does the Ministry of Magic know when an underage witch or wizard is using magic? I know the 7th book has the whole "trace" thing, but then why did Harry get in trouble for Dobbys magic in book 2?


  #520  
Old December 12th, 2011, 8:20 pm
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Re: Little Questions Answered v.20

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One thing i never understood. How does the Ministry of Magic know when an underage witch or wizard is using magic? I know the 7th book has the whole "trace" thing, but then why did Harry get in trouble for Dobbys magic in book 2?
because the trace was always active it just isn't explained until the seventh book.


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