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Dumbledore's notes



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  #21  
Old December 9th, 2008, 2:15 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I wonder why Lucius was Voldemort's favorite death eater though. There are other pure blood families in the Death Eaters, I would've thought that Voldemort was very mad about Lucius losing his horcrux anyways


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  #22  
Old December 9th, 2008, 2:43 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
I wonder why Lucius was Voldemort's favorite death eater though. There are other pure blood families in the Death Eaters, I would've thought that Voldemort was very mad about Lucius losing his horcrux anyways
I don't think Voldemort realy cared about that much about blood status, as long as it wasn't mudblood. Lucius was his most useful tool at the time, the Lestranges were still in prison, so he at least claimed to be Voldy's favourite.
The loss of the Horcrux must of course have delt his popularity a blow, but I seem to remember that he didn't tell Voldemort what he had done with it at once. I don't know when, but I remember Dumbledore saying something like: 'When Voldemort finally found out what Lucius had done with the Horcrux he had entrusted to him...' in HBP (maybe someone can supply the quote).
It's also possible that Dumbledore wrote that bit about Lucius much earlier, e.g. during CoS, the introduction only says the notes were probably completed during OotP, there is nothing on when Dumbledore started.


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  #23  
Old December 9th, 2008, 2:44 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
Definitely! In her story, she's not just another character with their own story, she like plays "God" and she really knows everything there is to know without having to make it up as she goes along. I can't wait for the encyclopedia
Exactly, which is one of the many reasons why she's such a great writer! I can't wait for that either. Any news on that, btw?


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  #24  
Old December 9th, 2008, 3:02 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I really enjoyed Dumbledore's notes, especially the clearing up of what a Warlock actually is, and this:

Although it has never been proven that Lisette was an Animagus who managed to squeeze through the bars of her cell window, a large white rabbit was subsequently seen crossing the English Channel in a cauldron with a sail fitted to it, and a similiar rabbit later became a trusted advisor at the court of King Henry VI.



I wouldn't have enjoyed the book half as much without them.


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  #25  
Old December 9th, 2008, 3:32 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

The strange thing is that Dumbledore's notes made me like the guy an awful lot more than I actually like him in the books.



And the correspondence between him and Lucius Malfoy is priceless.

But, really, Dumbledore's commentary is what makes Beedle what it is. The tales are lovely in their own right but it's Dumbledore's notes that really make the whole thing come alive. And they add a lot of depth to him as a character. He'll never be my favourite, but I've warmed to him more because of them.


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  #26  
Old December 9th, 2008, 8:37 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I like the bit about reading the history of the elder wand, that it was mentioned in Magick Most Evile. Same place where Voldemort read about the Horcruxes. Oh and the Malfoy letters.


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  #27  
Old December 9th, 2008, 9:36 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

Dumbledore's description of human-animal transfiguration (incl. Animagi) bothers me.

He says, that the human would lose his identity being truly transformed into an animal, and would need someone to transfigure him back to normal. Yet the fake Moody changed Draco into a ferret, who clearly retained human awareness while being bounced about.

Likewise, Slughorn transfigured himself into an armchair. Had Albus left without discovering him, I'm sure he'd be able to transfigure himself back, since he had his wand.

My theory was that Animagi have learned human-animal transfiguration so well that they can do it without a wand, as Wormtail showed during his escape in book 3. I really don't think Wormtail was stuck in rat-form all those years he'd been hiding. If he had Voldemort's wand on him then, he likely would have used it to flee from the Shrieking Shack.

So in Draco's ferret case, his wand and clothes had temporarily disappeared while he was transformed. I'm sure an experienced fully-trained wizard could have transfigured themselves back. Likewise If the Minister really was being changed into a sea creature by Percy, and not just hexed, I think he must have restored himself rather than a Death Eater coming to his rescue.


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  #28  
Old December 9th, 2008, 10:19 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I like the bit about reading the history of the elder wand, that it was mentioned in Magick Most Evile. Same place where Voldemort read about the Horcruxes. Oh and the Malfoy letters.
I liked those parts, too. Those are my favorite parts of Dumbledore's commentary. I liked all of it actually. It was very entertaining to read. I felt like I was actually getting a lesson in Wizarding history at some parts, but then I came back to reality and remembered that there is no magic.


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  #29  
Old December 9th, 2008, 10:26 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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Originally Posted by NoNEWTS View Post
Dumbledore's description of human-animal transfiguration (incl. Animagi) bothers me.

He says, that the human would lose his identity being truly transformed into an animal, and would need someone to transfigure him back to normal. Yet the fake Moody changed Draco into a ferret, who clearly retained human awareness while being bounced about.
Darco was transfigured so he did not retain human awarness while being bounced about. That's what Jo says and nothing in GoF shows he did.
I think that when he was refigured (or untransfigured) by McGonagall he did remember what had been done to him while he was a ferret, but we don't know that either. Harry is never transfigured so we don't get an inside view what it is like and no one ever tells him (or us) how it is.
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Likewise, Slughorn transfigured himself into an armchair. Had Albus left without discovering him, I'm sure he'd be able to transfigure himself back, since he had his wand.
We don't know what kind of magic Slughorn used, as far as I remember no Human/Inanimate object Transfiguration is ever mentioned or taught at Hogwarts. Maybe that was a strong Illusionment Charm or Slughorn used a potion, anyway the comment in BtB was only about Human/Animal Transfiguration. What ever it was I agree it was something Slughorn could have undone without help when ever he wanted, in fact he did undo it when he realized Dumbledore had discovered the disguise.
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My theory was that Animagi have learned human-animal transfiguration so well that they can do it without a wand, as Wormtail showed during his escape in book 3.
But Jo now squashed that theory. Transformation is not a form of Transfiguration, it's a different kind of magic which doesn't require a wand, or Sirius couln't have used it while in Azkaban (I'm sure they didn't leave him his wand) and Wormtail, as you say, couldn't have used it at the end of PoA.
Quote:
I really don't think Wormtail was stuck in rat-form all those years he'd been hiding. If he had Voldemort's wand on him then, he likely would have used it to flee from the Shrieking Shack.
I'm sure he had a wand on him, but wasn't fool enough to fight Sirius and Remus. And I never saw anyone saying he was transfigured and stuck.
Quote:
So in Draco's ferret case, his wand and clothes had temporarily disappeared while he was transformed. I'm sure an experienced fully-trained wizard could have transfigured themselves back. Likewise If the Minister really was being changed into a sea creature by Percy, and not just hexed, I think he must have restored himself rather than a Death Eater coming to his rescue.
Draco was not transformed (that's the Animagus magic ), he was transfigured and Jo said that no wizard could have transfigured himself back once he was an animal, as far as we know the clothes and anything in the pockets are included in both changes (Transfiguration and (Animagus-)Transformation) and it doesn't matter if that includes a wand since the Animagus can turn back without it and the transfigured animal isn't able to use the wand.



Last edited by Murzim; December 9th, 2008 at 10:39 pm.
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  #30  
Old December 10th, 2008, 12:01 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNEWTS View Post
Dumbledore's description of human-animal transfiguration (incl. Animagi) bothers me.

He says, that the human would lose his identity being truly transformed into an animal, and would need someone to transfigure him back to normal. Yet the fake Moody changed Draco into a ferret, who clearly retained human awareness while being bounced about.
It bothers me too, because my previous idea was that when a human is transfigured into an animal, they are vaguely aware and will remember things, but not well, like how you see things in dreams.

Quote:
Likewise, Slughorn transfigured himself into an armchair. Had Albus left without discovering him, I'm sure he'd be able to transfigure himself back, since he had his wand.
It could have been a charm that only made him look like an armchair while he was human, kind of like disillusionment charms change how your body looks


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  #31  
Old December 10th, 2008, 6:47 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
It could have been a charm that only made him look like an armchair while he was human, kind of like disillusionment charms change how your body looks
That was how I read that scene


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  #32  
Old December 10th, 2008, 3:34 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I had to think twice about the transfiguration/human transformation comment too.

One thing that made me smile was the commentary about Beatrix Bloxom's revisions of the Tales. I wonder if the criticism of those other well-known books featuring Albus Dumbledore had anything to do with it.


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  #33  
Old December 11th, 2008, 3:15 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I think it was a guise charm like the Disillusionment charm--maybe there's a class of transformational charms called Illusions (or the equivalent) and it was one of those. As for the timeline--I did have it wrong. The comments were supposedly written just around the time Arthur Weasley was attacked by Nagini and before the first mass breakout from Azkaban.


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  #34  
Old December 13th, 2008, 7:39 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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I liked those parts, too. Those are my favorite parts of Dumbledore's commentary. I liked all of it actually. It was very entertaining to read. I felt like I was actually getting a lesson in Wizarding history at some parts, but then I came back to reality and remembered that there is no magic.
I appreciated that part - given I had just started rereading PS and I'd to go the point where Hermionie mentions that she didn't have to bother learning about Eldric the Evil I think. I thought the tie ins with what we know already were wonderful.


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  #35  
Old December 15th, 2008, 1:48 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I liked most of Dumbledore's notes, but there were a couple times it bothered me; like the whole "especially clever wizards (like myself)" comments. It seemed overly boastful of him. He said things like that in private, but I can't see him taking note of it in a book. My daughter said it sounded more like Gilderoy Lockhart, and I had to agree.


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  #36  
Old December 16th, 2008, 1:54 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

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I liked most of Dumbledore's notes, but there were a couple times it bothered me; like the whole "especially clever wizards (like myself)" comments. It seemed overly boastful of him. He said things like that in private, but I can't see him taking note of it in a book. My daughter said it sounded more like Gilderoy Lockhart, and I had to agree.
I agree it's unusual particularly in a childrens book and maybe a bit overdone.
But I liked that he wasn't very modest in the later books of the series, he was quite aware of his extraordinary power and brillance of mind and said so more than once ['blessed as I am with unusual brain power...']. What bothered me in ToBtB was that it was somewhat unnecessary to point it out, but I still like it better than have him being 'modest' belitteling himself and thereby fishing for compliments.



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  #37  
Old December 17th, 2008, 2:00 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

Well we saw some not-so-wholesome sides to Dumbledore in HBP and DH. In HBP he was quick to point out his superiority to others. In DH, it was his young obsession with being invincible and conquering the world for wizard domination.

Dumbledore was, I think, a very arrogant person with a big ego. He'd suppress it when necessary, and maybe old age had taught him enough wisdom not to flaunt it too much. But I think sometimes he couldn't really help himself, like when he is especially pleased with his achievements, or is feeling impatient at another person's sluggishness (ie. Harry's).


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  #38  
Old December 17th, 2008, 6:27 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

And Dumbledore is boasting (if you want to use that term) about qualities he really has, and of things I agree to be more of a reason to be proud of than winning the Most Charming Smile Award. These two point's make him very different from Lockhart


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  #39  
Old December 18th, 2008, 3:25 am
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegasus
I liked most of Dumbledore's notes, but there were a couple times it bothered me; like the whole "especially clever wizards (like myself)" comments. It seemed overly boastful of him. He said things like that in private, but I can't see him taking note of it in a book. My daughter said it sounded more like Gilderoy Lockhart, and I had to agree.
We must also remember he wrote these notes privately. The introduction tells us Dumbledore's intentions with his journals are unknown (though I think it quite obvious they were meant to be publicized), but since they are personal notes, I think his comments are justified. As you say, "he said things like that in private," and these journals were written "in private."

Amongst other aspects, I love Dumbledore's notes on The Warlock's Hairy Heart, especially on the expression "to have a hairy heart." The book The Hairy Heart: A Guide to Wizards Who Won't Commit was an amusing inclusion and a nice counter to Ron's Twelve Fail-Safe Ways to Charm Witches.


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  #40  
Old December 19th, 2008, 10:13 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's notes

I thought they were very interesting and cleared up a few things. It was especially nice reading about the Malfoy fmaily a bit. They really were always on the pureblood side...


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