Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old August 17th, 2007, 3:42 am
Murko  Male.gif Murko is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4545 days
Location: 570, svensylvania
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

I don't know how he actually knew the location, Phinneus would be a good guess if any, but when ron mentions he saw something move behind a few trees (the one with the perfect place to see but not be seen) but couldn't do anything about it, because harry is a higher priority at that point. Harry of course inspects the spot, but find's nothing of course, (Snape probably directed the patronus from that hiding place, and obviously would've obliterated his tracks)


__________________
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old August 17th, 2007, 4:06 am
katchick  Female.gif katchick is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4589 days
Location: Georgia
Posts: 70
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

It occured to me that maybe the objects that Dumbledore left them could be traced. Dumbledore's portrait was helping Snape. Maybe he knew where they were???


Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old August 17th, 2007, 4:55 am
cybobbie's Avatar
cybobbie  Female.gif cybobbie is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5294 days
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Posts: 601
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katchick View Post
It occured to me that maybe the objects that Dumbledore left them could be traced. Dumbledore's portrait was helping Snape. Maybe he knew where they were???
That's a possibility. I was thinking also that since Dumbledore asked Snape to help Harry, maybe he left something to Snape as a way to trace the trio whereabouts.


__________________

Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old August 24th, 2007, 1:10 pm
no_seatbelt  Female.gif no_seatbelt is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4565 days
Location: Scotland
Age: 32
Posts: 115
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverpalm View Post
I was wondering about this...doesn't Harry know from having visited the Headmaster's office for DD that Phineas has another portrait there, in addition to the Grimmauld Place/Hermione's crazy purse one? So wasn't it foolish to take one portrait and risk having Phineas hear of their whereabouts and report back to the new headmaster, Snape? It happened, and although the outcome of that situation was good, the trio didn't know Snape was on their side. To them, Snape was Voldemort's right-hand man, and with their location reported, they're a bunch of fugitives who're as good as dead!

I hope I make sense here. Perhaps I'm overlooking some completely obvious fact that justifies Hermione having one of the portraits, but I'm just thinking it was foolish because they didn't yet realize Snape was good.
Hermione wanted to hide the Portrait so that Snape, who they suspected was bad, wouldn't be able to send Phineas to Grimmauld Place to spy on them. If he was in the bag he wouldn't hear anything unless the bag was opened. Then they had to leave Grimmauld place in a hurry and I suspect in all the activity Hermione forgot about him until that evening they decide to ask him questions. Then I suppose she couldnt risk throwing him away because he knew they'd been camping and what sort of questions they were asking about Snape. They also probably wanted to keep him about for any future queries they had.


__________________
"I have known for some time now, that you are the better man"


There is no greater pain than to remember, in our present grief, past happiness.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old August 24th, 2007, 1:13 pm
somerandom592  Female.gif somerandom592 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4592 days
Location: Godric's Hollow Graveyard
Posts: 224
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

They told us how he knew!
When Hemione was talking Phineas's portrait out, she was talking to Harry and she mentioned the Forest Of Dean, without knowing Phineas heard.
Phineas alerted Dumbledore and Snape.


__________________
Ravenclaw for me
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old August 24th, 2007, 1:51 pm
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4751 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by somerandom592 View Post
They told us how he knew!
When Hemione was talking Phineas's portrait out, she was talking to Harry and she mentioned the Forest Of Dean, without knowing Phineas heard.
Phineas alerted Dumbledore and Snape.
Yes, but the forest of dean is about 100 sq kilometers (see earlier in the thread). So in a 6 mile by 6 mile forest, how did Snape find them? My thoughts on the specifics of how Snape found the needle in the small haystack are posted earlier.


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old August 24th, 2007, 4:30 pm
gottriplets's Avatar
gottriplets  Female.gif gottriplets is offline
Triple Threat in Third Place
 
Joined: 4759 days
Location: Out of my mind...
Age: 57
Posts: 706
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gottriplets View Post
I agree with everyone that said Phineas told Snape where they were hiding.

I think that Snape went to the Forest of Dean himself to hide the sword in the pool and directed his Patronus (the doe) to lead Harry to the sword. Snape hung out near the pool to make sure Harry did find the sword. I believe Snape did this because DD probably told Snape that it was crucial that Harry have this sword. And when Ron showed up to help Harry he thought he saw something/someone in the bushes (no doubt Snape).
This is really weird quoting myself, but I've been pondering this whole situation.

We saw in Snape's memory that Snape took the sword out of it's hiding place and was instructed by DD to take the sword to Harry and to make sure that Harry didn't know who gave it and DD further said that the sword was to be taken out of need and valor.

All of the Horcrux objects have special magical properties. Perhaps one of the sword's properties is to direct the magical person or magical beast to the person who is in need of it. Let's remember in COS, Harry needed help and Fawkes brought the sword to Harry. Maybe the sword "told" told Fawkes where to take it.

We already know that Phineas told Snape (and all the other paintings) the general area Harry was in and the sword led Snape to him. Snape hid the sword in the pool...blah, blah, blah...like I posted above.

I hope I'm making sense...I haven't enough coffee yet


__________________

Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old August 24th, 2007, 10:45 pm
PrivetHedge  Male.gif PrivetHedge is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 4726 days
Location: Dorchester, MA, USA
Age: 51
Posts: 486
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toonmili View Post
The snatchers were able to find Harry and Hermione and Ron when they were shielded.
The Snatchers found them because the protective charms they were using were knocked out when they broke the formal Taboo against saying Voldemort's name. That's how the Snatchers knew where to apparate.

Remember - Ron says something about needing to restore the protective charms as the Snatchers surround the tent.

I forget if it said it explicitly in the text, but breaking the Taboo must also have triggered an anti-disapparition jinx (or the Snatchers placed one instantly upon arrival). Otherwise, the trio would have had a moment to grab their critical baggage (the sword & Hermione's bag), set fire to the tent (to conceal evidence of their identity), and disapparated from inside the tent.


Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old August 25th, 2007, 12:43 am
Verilance  Male.gif Verilance is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4557 days
Posts: 24
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Sending messages by Patronus seeks out the person it is sent to this is how Arthur Weasley's patronus found Harry ron and Hermione even though he didn't know they were at Grimmauld Place. Snape could have sent his doe to find Harry and followed it. Quite simple actually.


Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old August 25th, 2007, 2:36 am
NoNEWTS  Male.gif NoNEWTS is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5300 days
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 369
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
This is what my husband and I came up with. Mr. Weasley's patronus came to Grimmauld Place, did Mr. Weasley know where they were or does the Patronus find the person its looking for? Enchantments don't keep out Patronuses - remember in HBP Tonks sends her Patronus to Hogwarts which was very protected.
I'm going to go with this idea. In the past people asked how owls could find their recipients, like Sirius, when the sender didn't know where they were. And why couldn't someone just send an owl and follow it. I think the answer there was that wizards could turn themselves off from owl post, like disconnecting from the floo network. "Sirius knew what he was doing" about the will, so I think he set it up so only a select few would be allowed to correspond with him. Also, there was magic protecting their delivery, so they'd be vulnerable only when leaving or arriving, like Hedwig being attacked by Umbridge. Unfortunately, Harry and co. aren't shown de-posting themselves, so this is a disappointment.

With regard to patronuses, I'll say that it's half and half. You could send one, but it might not make it to the intended recipient if they're not available or hiding, like Snape getting Tonk's message. Perhaps he set up the challenge and hid while sending out his patronus into the forest to lure Harry back. I do like the idea that he could have been waiting for hours, though.

But I do think this scene has some problems. Ron said he saw the patronus, but Harry didn't see Ron, and he didn't shout out for Harry. Yet he was close enough to see Harry go in the water, and run and jump in after him (perhaps a minute later?).



Last edited by NoNEWTS; August 25th, 2007 at 2:39 am.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old August 25th, 2007, 5:39 am
ginnyweasleyfan  Female.gif ginnyweasleyfan is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4536 days
Location: laredo
Posts: 16
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Phineas told Snape that he had heard Hermione say where they were when she opened her bag. Sanpe could of sent out a lot of does and kept track of them and when he saw Harry following his doe and placed the sword at the bottom of the pond and then just used a freezing charm on the surface of the pond.


Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old August 25th, 2007, 6:01 pm
sticky  Female.gif sticky is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 4710 days
Location: Aberystwyth
Age: 28
Posts: 1,523
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verilance View Post
Sending messages by Patronus seeks out the person it is sent to this is how Arthur Weasley's patronus found Harry ron and Hermione even though he didn't know they were at Grimmauld Place. Snape could have sent his doe to find Harry and followed it. Quite simple actually.
This makes sense to me!!! Also Phineas told snape where they were, not specifically but where abouts in the uk they were, which gave snape a clue as to where they were.
Also patronuses must be able to get through enchantments. Tonks's patrinus managed to get through the hogwarts boundaries in HBP, so snapes patronus could have gotten through the barrier that hermione had made, snape obviously followed it.


__________________
http://www.
Snape: Loreal, Because you're worth it

''Dear Professor Snape,
Dude...It's called Shampoo.
Love Anomoulous xX''

Ways to Annoy Snape...Wink at him evertime you catch his eye

Come and Guess The Screenshot!!! http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=110197
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old August 25th, 2007, 10:02 pm
JjLike  Undisclosed.gif JjLike is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4587 days
Posts: 1
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Maybe the spell that tells you if theres a human presence? Haven't got my book so can't check it... Would it tell you the location of the person? I seem to remember in the Lovegood's house they knew the person was upstairs, or was that because they were told?


Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old August 25th, 2007, 10:12 pm
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4751 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

I think the spell is homonym revelio (questionable spelling), but I don't know if it could penetrate the protections Hermione placed.

I do like the idea of seeker-patronus or detecting them by figuring out what area cannot be seen via magic.


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old August 26th, 2007, 3:27 am
DocHollidaywe's Avatar
DocHollidaywe  Male.gif DocHollidaywe is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 6274 days
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 33
Posts: 794
Re: How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?

All very good points!

Some people have been saying that Snape could not have left the school for very long. However, I would disagree with this. I think it is possible for Snape to leave the school for more than a day or two. People would just assume he was meating Voldemort or else carrying out some plan he was ordered to do. As he is not a teacher and does not have a daily class to be at it is possible.


__________________
You probably looked at my profile picture and said "Dueling Club at CoS Forums??
________________________________
Not any more, but that's how old I am, I remember the Dueling Club here at CoS forums.

Check out my podcast: www.myspace.com/threewisemenshow
or go to itunes and search for "three wise men"
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old August 26th, 2007, 3:51 am
Chase13  Female.gif Chase13 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4534 days
Posts: 3
Re: How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?

There is a possibility that Snape followed Ron. It sounds outrageous but it is possible.


Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old August 26th, 2007, 4:10 am
eatus_Benevol1  Female.gif eatus_Benevol1 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4950 days
Location: betw Rivendell & the Shire
Posts: 175
Re: How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?

Harry was outside of the tent when he saw the doe, wasn't he? Maybe the protections were for being inside the tent....and as for Patronuses being able to find the person they are sent to - isn't it the same kind of magic as owls finding the recepient of the letter they are carrying, no matter where that person is hiding and even if the sender doesn't know where they are?


Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old August 26th, 2007, 8:57 am
YellowRose's Avatar
YellowRose  Female.gif YellowRose is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5437 days
Location: Doing Wheelies
Age: 36
Posts: 2,259
Re: How did Snape find H&H in the Forest of Dean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by enmapotter View Post
Ok this was explained in the book guys... remember that hermione had Phinea's portrait inside her magic purse? Phineas heard her mentioning the name of the forest and ran to his other portrait (in Hogwarts) to tell snape about it.
Just what I was going to say. I'm sure Snape was good enough in magic to detect some of the protective spells Harry and Hermione cast, perhaps not to the exact spot, that is why he used his patronus to lure Harry out of the tent and to the sword.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old August 26th, 2007, 1:06 pm
Magi's Avatar
Magi  Male.gif Magi is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 6250 days
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,651
Re: How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?

Some posts have said Snape could not have left Hogwarts long. But I disagree, because the evidence in the book suggests he was away for at least a few hours.

At the beginning of Chapter Nineteen - The Silver Doe, the timeline goes like this:
1. Hermione takes over the watch at midnight
2. Harry sleeps fitfully, and finally gets up in the darkness to join Hermione on her watch.
3. Hermione wants to move to a more sheltered place.
4. Half an hour later they Dis-Apparate to the Forest of Dean. Hermione tells Harry their location as she takes out the tent from her bag.
5. They spend most of the day in the tent.
6. As darkness drew again, Harry takes the watch.
7. Harry sees the silver doe Patronus.

So Harry and Hermione arrived in the Forest of Dean sometime at dawn, either while it was still dark, or just after sunrise. As it was mid-winter, sunrise probably occurred around 6am and sunset approximately 5pm. It was completely dark by the time Harry saw the silver doe Patronus, which means at least 12 hours must have elapsed from their arrival to the silver doe incident.

Meanwhile, we see from Snape's memory in the Pensieve that this happened:
1. Snape is in the Headmaster's study, and Phineas Nigellus hurries in the portrait, telling Snape that Harry and Hermione were in camping in the Forest of Dean.
2. Phineas Nigellus tells Snape that Hermione mentioned the place as she opened her bag. This is almost certainly when they were taking out the tent just after their arrival.
3. Snape takes the sword of Gryffindor, tells Dumbledore he has "a plan" and leaves.

Phineas Nigellus probably would have taken only a few minutes to travel from his stolen portrait to Hogwarts. Look at how fast the portraits travelled in OotP when Dumbledore sent them just after Nagini's attack on Arthur Weasley. So the delay in Phineas Nigullus' travel is negligible.

We know that Snape left Dumbledore's study with the sword of Gryffindor just after Harry and Hermione's arrival in the Forest of Dean. It seems unlikely that Snape would have dawdled with the sword in his possession (it was supposed to be in Lestranges' vault), so he would have probably set out for the Forest of Dean as soon as he could.

If my analysis is correct, Snape took at least 12 hours to travel to the Forest of Dean from Hogwarts and find Harry and Hermione. As clever as he is, he probably had a ready-made excuse if Voldemort or the Carrows questioned his absence. 12 hours is probably a sensible time for even a skilled wizard to find magically-hidden fugitives in a large forest.



Last edited by Magi; August 26th, 2007 at 1:15 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old August 26th, 2007, 4:08 pm
Chris's Avatar
Chris  Undisclosed.gif Chris is offline
Custodian of Hades Vault
 
Joined: 4751 days
Location: Monoc Securities
Posts: 4,653
Re: How did Snape find Harry & Hermione in the Forest of Dean?

Good analysis Magi. I do wonder what that excuse was ...but Snape's a smart man.

I do agree that, if Snape had 12 hours, he should be able to find them. I'll admit I thought the window was smaller, but I could be wrong .


__________________
RLF_Icons (signature)

In case I forget: Opinions posted in the US Political Discussion forum are posted as a member and not as a moderator


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. - Oscar Wilde

We're all human, aren't we? Every human life is worth the same, and worth saving. - Kingsley

Sustainability should be a part of what we do every day.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Bookmarks

Tags
forest of dean, severus snape, silver doe


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:45 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.