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Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (with spoilers)



View Poll Results: What are your thoughts on the play and book?
Awesome! Both of them. 2 5.26%
The play is great, but the story doesn't work in book format 4 10.53%
I've lots of emotions on core characters that must not be named 11 28.95%
Mwah... meh... 17 44.74%
The book is awesome, can't wait to see the play! 8 21.05%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old August 1st, 2016, 3:35 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I haven't read it yet and I haven't posted here in years, but I felt the need to comment after discovering the major spoilers.

Spoiler: show
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around Voldemort having a child. I'm sorry but there is no way he would have an affair, neither with Bellatrix nor with anyone else. I know that sex can often be "meaningless" but even so it is by its nature an intimate act. The books made it clear that Voldemort had no use for human contact or relationships. He believed he was immortal so why would he think he would need an heir? He probably wasn't even fully human anymore so really, how could he have possibly fathered a child? I could somewhat understand young, handsome Tom Riddle seducing someone to get what he wants (as was hinted at in HBP), I can't picture snake-like, twisted-by-dark-magic Voldemort doing the same. This totally contradicts everything we know about his character and just ruins it for me.


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  #142  
Old August 1st, 2016, 9:45 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I've added a little poll ^_^


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  #143  
Old August 1st, 2016, 10:46 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I've nearly finished reading the play and am very much enjoying it. I might try to see it now. I do see now how this would work better as a play than a book.

Things I really like:

Scorpius! So much love. He is the star of the show. He and Albus are mirror images of each other, the sons of fathers with difficult pasts, thus mirroring Harry and Draco.

The Scorpius/Albus bromance.

Ginny! I have issues with Canon Ginny. But I totally warm to this Ginny.

Draco! Still a proud Malfoy, bitter about certain things, getting his digs in at Harry as one would expect, but never as bad as his father and he's moved on. Well, a bit. Draco has suffered. And he loves his son very much, which is no surprise.

Snape! Oh, so great to see him! Even if he should probably be a tad more embittered and nasty in his external persona. Even if he was deeply moved by certain revelations, would he show it? But he's still gloriously snarky, with the best lines. *

* See ccollinsmith's posts for why this slightly gentler version of Snape has to be seen in the light of the AUs caused by the time travel.

Dumbledore's portrait. This is well done, and addresses to some extent why Canon Dumbledore was never in his portrait frame when important questions needed to be answered.

The emotional psychodrama. This, even more than the enchanting magic, is what makes me like the books so much. The play has its heart in the right place, although I could quibble about some things in the plot.

The tension and conflict between Harry and his youngest son is much more interesting than a bland 'happy ever after' scenario.

I like how the play handles Ron/Hermione. They love each other, but the time travel thing throws up the potential pitfalls in their relationship. But they do love each other.

I like the premise that adult Harry would be haunted by his past. Of course he would be.

Quibbles

Although I've always been sympathetic to Harry-angst, I don't love him in this, whereas I do love him in canon, for all his faults. But he behaves in this like his angsty teenage self! Harry, that's no way to speak to your son. My vision of adult Harry is very different. *

* See ccollinsmith's posts for why this pricklier version of Harry has to be seen in the light of the AUs caused by the time travel.

I can understand why people are finding the time travel plot repetitive. On page, at any rate.

These quibbles are not enough to make me dislike this though. If I am able to (haha), I'd like to see it.


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  #144  
Old August 1st, 2016, 10:57 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

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Originally Posted by Hes View Post
I've added a little poll ^_^


We always like a poll


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  #145  
Old August 1st, 2016, 2:57 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

It's been a long time since I posted but I often lurk.

We are seeing the play in November and I was determined I was going to remain spoiler free until then. Well the book was in the house for 8 hours and had been read by my husband before I finally broke down and read it.

I'm glad I did. Still don't really know what to make of the story at this point I'm still mulling it over but the little bit of stage direction there is has got us both even more excited for the stage craft to the extent that we are considering booking more tickets when they go on sale Thursday to see it from the stalls rather than the balcony, I'm not really a fan of the Palace theatre's balcony but by the time I got through the queue that's all I could get!

Spoiler: show
I did have a thought about what has been described as the time travel plot hole. At one point during the play Harry or Hermione, can't remember which, state that Nott's time turner was experimental. There is nothing to say that this time turner works in the same way as the old one, and we have sort of proof in that with the five minute issue.

I love Scorpius, adore him even

There were some points that at felt like fan fiction, but at this point is there much that hasn't been written? I did send my husband a message when it was revealed about Delphi that was something along the lines of 'if Bella turns out to be her mother......'

Loved that Snape was there. My mind doesn't usually do this but there was one line that I just heard Alan Rickman saying.

The last scene with Dumbledore almost felt like they were trying to reverse some of the 'damage' that was dealt against his character in DH.

Harry is not good at the parenting thing!

Can't quite decide who the Cursed Child is: Harry, Albus or Dephi. Maybe it's all three.

Overall I think I'm okay with the story, may have another read before we go.




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  #146  
Old August 1st, 2016, 5:10 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
I've nearly finished reading the play and am very much enjoying it. I might try to see it now. I do see now how this would work better as a play than a book.

Quibbles:

Spoiler: show
Although I've always been sympathetic to Harry-angst, I don't love him in this, whereas I do love him in canon, for all his faults. But he behaves in this like his angsty teenage self! Harry, that's no way to speak to your son. My vision of adult Harry is very different.

I can understand why people are finding the time travel plot repetitive. On page, at any rate.

Yes, this. I hope they tone it down in the post-previews version. It was a bit much in person too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altjeringa View Post
I haven't read it yet and I haven't posted here in years, but I felt the need to comment after discovering the major spoilers.

Spoiler: show
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around Voldemort having a child. I'm sorry but there is no way he would have an affair, neither with Bellatrix nor with anyone else. I know that sex can often be "meaningless" but even so it is by its nature an intimate act. The books made it clear that Voldemort had no use for human contact or relationships. He believed he was immortal so why would he think he would need an heir? He probably wasn't even fully human anymore so really, how could he have possibly fathered a child? I could somewhat understand young, handsome Tom Riddle seducing someone to get what he wants (as was hinted at in HBP), I can't picture snake-like, twisted-by-dark-magic Voldemort doing the same. This totally contradicts everything we know about his character and just ruins it for me.
This. Exactly. I had the same thoughts as well.
Spoiler: show
When I saw the play, the audience groaned at this reveal. The whole thousand of us. I wish it had been Bellatrix's baby but not with Voldie, just that she was raised to think she was the daughter of Voldemort. I can't imagine LV ever wanted any physical contact, since he was more snake than human


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  #147  
Old August 1st, 2016, 6:36 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by HMN View Post
Yes, this. I hope they tone it down in the post-previews version. It was a bit much in person too.

This. Exactly. I had the same thoughts as well.
Spoiler: show
When I saw the play, the audience groaned at this reveal. The whole thousand of us. I wish it had been Bellatrix's baby but not with Voldie, just that she was raised to think she was the daughter of Voldemort. I can't imagine LV ever wanted any physical contact, since he was more snake than human
Spoiler: show
Agreed. Or even just make her the daughter of the Lestranges and leave it at that. I've seen some people justify it by saying maybe Voldemort would've wanted an heir to continue his legacy but again, why? He was convinced he would live forever and had no doubts that he would come out the victor in his battle with Harry. If anything I would think he wouldn't like the thought of potential competition so frankly I'm inclined to believe that even if he did sleep with Bellatrix (which canon Voldemort would not do, but let's just say for argument's sake he did) he would've killed the baby as soon as she was born, or maybe he would've even killed Bella as soon as he found out she was expecting. Also, shouldn't she have looked noticeably pregnant during the Malfoy Manor scenes? Nothing about this scenario makes any sense. I can't believe JKR approved it even if she didn't write it herself.


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  #148  
Old August 1st, 2016, 9:47 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I have now finished it, and I loved it!

I pretty much agree with others that

Spoiler: show
having a baby just does not fit with my conception of Voldemort. I think it's possible that Delphi just believes she's Voldemort's daughter by Bellatrix. Is there any actual PROOF that she's Voldemort's daughter? Is it possible that LeStrange fed her that story in order to motivate her - the next generation - to try to bring back the Dark Lord?

ETA: I agree with Sereena's response below on the question of proof.


I didn't mind the

Spoiler: show
time travel stuff with all the ripple effects. In fact, I pretty well loved all of that. I've always been in to science fiction and time paradox, and I just found all of the alt-universe possibilities fascinating. But that's a matter of personal preferences, not a point really for debate.


I loved loved loved LOVED

Spoiler: show

Scorpius!

And Scorpius/Albus! I AM hoping that we see more adventures from this pair. I'm not much of a shipper, but I do have to know if Scorpius ever DOES get that date with Rose!

I loved seeing authentically good and heroic (if sometimes complicated) kids get sorted into Slytherin. Pureblood corruption and Dark Magic are not Slytherin's only legacy - as Merlin (and Andromeda Tonks) can attest. So I was happy to see a story focus on the positive potential of Slytherin students for a change.

I loved seeing Draco and Harry begin working together towards a common goal and start to build a more positive relationship. One of Draco's few redeeming characteristics as a teenager was the love he had for his family - as horribly flawed as that family was. Here, we get to see his intense love for an authentically good child. I think Astoria and Scorpius have been very good for Draco. He is a much better man than he was a youth.

I loved getting to see Snape. I think that PearlTook asked some valid questions about whether Snape should be pricklier, but I think that we are seeing beneath the surface in an alternate future where he has failed the task Dumbledore gave him... but takes on Lily's cause for Lily's sake. I think he is a softer Snape for a reason. He is older and has suffered 22/23 years under Voldemort's reign, while hiding his true cause the whole time. He has become friends with Hermione and Ron and has looked out for them. I think he is just plain a changed man... and consequently softer. I remember when I first entered the Snape debate, I said: "I wonder what Snape would have become if he'd lived after the War... if some of those hard edges would have softened over time." Well, we still don't have the answer to that question in the canonical timeline in which he died. But we do have an answer for an alternate timeline in which he failed to protect Harry and in which Nagini never killed him. I think that the answer we get in the alternate timeline does tell us something about his core character, as it had been established up to the moment that the timelines diverged during the Triwizard Tournament. Basically: this potential was always in him. That doesn't mean he ever would have realized it in the canonical timeline, but it's established as a possibility.

I really loved Harry's final statement about Dumbledore and Snape btw: "They were great men, with huge flaws, and you know what - those flaws almost made them greater." I cried.


As for the concern that it seems too much like fanfiction:

Spoiler: show
I think at this point, nearly every possible Harry Potter plot has been written in fanfiction, so just about anything is going to seem like it has elements of fanfic in it. Still, I do think it's possible that Rowling's story may have consciously done some shoutouts to some of her favorite next-gen fanfic plots. We know she's read some of them - like the James Potter saga. Regardless, the ideas in this story are clearly plotlines that she agrees with, whether they originated in her head 10 or more years ago or were influenced by fanfic written since 2007.


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  #149  
Old August 1st, 2016, 10:32 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altjeringa View Post
Spoiler: show
Agreed. Or even just make her the daughter of the Lestranges and leave it at that. I've seen some people justify it by saying maybe Voldemort would've wanted an heir to continue his legacy but again, why? He was convinced he would live forever and had no doubts that he would come out the victor in his battle with Harry. If anything I would think he wouldn't like the thought of potential competition so frankly I'm inclined to believe that even if he did sleep with Bellatrix (which canon Voldemort would not do, but let's just say for argument's sake he did) he would've killed the baby as soon as she was born, or maybe he would've even killed Bella as soon as he found out she was expecting. Also, shouldn't she have looked noticeably pregnant during the Malfoy Manor scenes? Nothing about this scenario makes any sense. I can't believe JKR approved it even if she didn't write it herself.
Spoiler: show
She would have already given birth by the time the events at Malfoy Manor occured so she didn't have to look pregnant then in order for the story to work. As for Voldemort not having sex, um, why? He's still human, he might still have needs.
As for Voldemort killing Bellatrix, maybe you should reread the Battle at Hogwarts scenes in DH. He clearly does not want to lose her. Why on earth would he kill her?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith
Spoiler: show
think it's possible that Delphi just believes she's Voldemort's daughter by Bellatrix. Is there any actual PROOF that she's Voldemort's daughter? Is it possible that LeStrange fed her that story in order to motivate her - the next generation - to try to bring back the Dark Lord?
Spoiler: show
Well, Harry asks her to prove it and she does so by speaking Parseltongue and flying. It's still possible that she's just deluded but why wouldn't the play have revealed that if that were the case? The play introduces the idea that Voldemort might have had a child very early on. The rumours that it's Scorpius are of course just a red herrring but it wouldn't make sense to have another red herring, IMO. And not even reveal it.

I do like this plot twist and I'm glad that it adds an extra dimension to Voldy (because he desperately needed one!). But I can understand why people dislike it and I think the problem is that it comes out of nowhere but is treated like the most natural thing in the world. Harry, with all he knows about Voldemort, is never surprised that Voldemort would have a sexual relationship with someone. I think a bit more discussion on how this fits with Voldemort's character would have been good. The last book was full of Bella/Voldemort hints but maybe for some people this just wasn't enough to sell this plot twist.



Last edited by Sereena; August 1st, 2016 at 10:44 pm.
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  #150  
Old August 1st, 2016, 11:33 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereena View Post


Spoiler: show
Well, Harry asks her to prove it and she does so by speaking Parseltongue and flying. It's still possible that she's just deluded but why wouldn't the play have revealed that if that were the case? The play introduces the idea that Voldemort might have had a child very early on. The rumours that it's Scorpius are of course just a red herrring but it wouldn't make sense to have another red herring, IMO. And not even reveal it.
Good points. I read it in a whirlwind and was thinking out loud about what I had just finished. But you're right. My question is accounted for.


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  #151  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 2:30 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
I didn't mind the

Spoiler: show
time travel stuff with all the ripple effects. In fact, I pretty well loved all of that. I've always been in to science fiction and time paradox, and I just found all of the alt-universe possibilities fascinating. But that's a matter of personal preferences, not a point really for debate.

Spoiler: show
In person, the ripple effects were AMAZING. Given I had great seats up close to the stage but you felt the ripple effects with the bass sound and the video visuals made it feel like you could see the ripples. Even over the actors, not just in the background. We were all very impressed.


I loved loved loved LOVED

Spoiler: show

Scorpius!
He's the best! I wanted all Scorpius all the time. What a great actor. He was funny and quirky and all around lovable.

One thing I forgot that I loved was the
Spoiler: show
Trolley Witch!


And I haven't seen anyone mention the end of act 1.
Spoiler: show
When Scorpius pops out of the water and Albus wasn't there. We walked out stunned. I had a tear in my eye when Scorpius realises that Albus isn't there.


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  #152  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 3:44 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sereena View Post
Spoiler: show
She would have already given birth by the time the events at Malfoy Manor occured so she didn't have to look pregnant then in order for the story to work.
Spoiler: show
Ok, admittedly I haven't read it yet so I suppose I can't comment on the timeline. Guess I'll have to wait and see.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
As for Voldemort not having sex, um, why? He's still human, he might still have needs.
Spoiler: show
But that's just it though: he's *not* really a human anymore by this point. Like I said earlier, I can buy a prehorcrux Tom Riddle engaging in some casual flings here and there. I cannot buy it from the twisted, damaged by dark magic Voldemort.


Quote:
Spoiler: show
As for Voldemort killing Bellatrix, maybe you should reread the Battle at Hogwarts scenes in DH. He clearly does not want to lose her. Why on earth would he kill her?
Spoiler: show
No need to reread DH, I remember it quite well. I also remember this is the same person who, despite praising Snape as one of his best servants, turned on him in a heartbeat once he saw him as competition. And that's exactly what I think someone like Voldemort would view a child as: competition to his power over the wizard world. Although perhaps you're right, maybe he really did prefer Bellatrix over all the other DEs for whatever reason (because we know he was incapable of love). That's why I also stated that maybe he would've waited to kill the baby after she was born.



Quote:
Spoiler: show
The last book was full of Bella/Voldemort hints but maybe for some people this just wasn't enough to sell this plot twist.
Spoiler: show
I disagree, there were hints that Bella was attracted to/in love with Voldemort but they were completely one sided IMO. I didn't see anything that would indicate he had similar feelings for her. I'm starting the play right now actually and maybe I'll enjoy the overall story but I don't think I'll ever be able to get behind this particular aspect. JMO though.


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  #153  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 9:04 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Read the script and thought to add my two cents to this thread.

I respect the play for what it is, but to me what it is is glorified fan-fiction. With this is mind, it is an enjoyable read.

But...

Spoiler: show
I can't buy Delphi at all. It seems completely out of character for both Bellatrix and Voldemort that she would even be conceived. And the fact she comes across so cliche really irks me...


And I cannot forgive
Spoiler: show
the bloody time-turner. Jo so beautifully set up the parameters of time travel in PoA and I was so disappointed for these to be completely ignored (or rather dismissed because they said the time-turner was 'different'). For there to be the potential alternate timelines in the HP universe really does not sit well with me.


So I can't personally hold this as canon. Not the whole play at least. Parts I can accept are:

Spoiler: show
- Albus being in Slytherin and friends with Scorpius. This seems somewhat plausible, especially given Albus's personality traits.
- Hermione being Minister for Magic (just - it might have been more believable for her to take the office later)
- Wait, that's all I can think of ....


Yeah overall "meh" sums it up.

Also a random comment: it felt so short reading it, after being used to the 20+ hours it takes to read the later novels. Not that I feel it should be compared to the novels at all.


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  #154  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 9:10 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I just finished it, and i tried to like it. But for the most part, I couldn't. The characters didn't feel authentic to me at all. I think they lost me towards the end of Act Two when
Spoiler: show
Harry Potter who once Crucio'd a man for spitting at Minerva McGonagall said to her "You don't have children, so you don't understand" and "This map will reveal to you where my son is at all times - I expect you to use it. And if I hear you don't - then I will come down on this school as hard as I can - using the full force of the Ministry - is that understood?"


The more I think about it, the less Harry seems true to the person he used to be.
Spoiler: show
Refusing to listen to the Minister for Magic, doing exactly as he pleases, ordering other people around. Which sounds kind of like what he did as a teenager, but there's now an arrogance to it. And I get that people change when they get older. But it didn't feel right.


I liked some things. I liked Scorpius Malfoy.
Spoiler: show
I liked the ripple effects of time travelling but not the way they executed it and the new rules for it.


I had tears in my eyes at the
Spoiler: show
re-telling of the deaths of Lily and James, and Hagrid finding baby Harry.


But I hated more things than I liked. Oh well. I think JK is still an amazing writer. I loved Casual Vacancy and the Robert Galbraith books. But I think at least in my head, I'd rather not take Cursed Child as canon.

I did enjoy using the spoiler tags after an entire decade though


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  #155  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 9:12 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Ugh, the spoilers tags are annoying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altjeringa View Post
Spoiler: show
But that's just it though: he's *not* really a human anymore by this point. Like I said earlier, I can buy a prehorcrux Tom Riddle engaging in some casual flings here and there. I cannot buy it from the twisted, damaged by dark magic Voldemort.
Spoiler: show
He's never described as other than human in the books. It's not like he's ever described as a demon or an evil spirit or something like that. I see what you're saying but there's really no other category to put him in, despite his appearance.



Quote:
Spoiler: show
No need to reread DH, I remember it quite well. I also remember this is the same person who, despite praising Snape as one of his best servants, turned on him in a heartbeat once he saw him as competition. And that's exactly what I think someone like Voldemort would view a child as: competition to his power over the wizard world. Although perhaps you're right, maybe he really did prefer Bellatrix over all the other DEs for whatever reason (because we know he was incapable of love). That's why I also stated that maybe he would've waited to kill the baby after she was born.
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He had to kill Snape because of the wand, yes. But it would make more sense for him to just kill the baby rather than kill one of his best fighters just before the Battle. "for whatever reason" is probably the sex



Quote:
Spoiler: show
I disagree, there were hints that Bella was attracted to/in love with Voldemort but they were completely one sided IMO. I didn't see anything that would indicate he had similar feelings for her. I'm starting the play right now actually and maybe I'll enjoy the overall story but I don't think I'll ever be able to get behind this particular aspect. JMO though.
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Well, some people see it some people didn't. Just like gay!Dumbledore. The subtext was there and this is proven by the fact that there are many threads discussing the relationship between Voldemort and Bella. One of them is here on CoS but unfortunately only available to Hogsmeade students. There have also been theories predicting these two had a child (one such essay is posted on Mugglenet and the other one from Reddit was featured in Hype Magazine see herehttp://www.hypable.com/cursed-child-...-twist-theory/: . So it's not like no one saw it coming or that nobody wondered whether something was up between Voldemort and Bellatrix.

This is why I would have liked a bit more context to the whole thing because I can see why this is a shock to some people and why it comes across as non-sensical if you don't know more about it. I'm not saying we needed a flashback to the night she was conceived (of course not!) but I think we needed at least one of the characters to be surprised by this and ask questions about it. What if during one of Harry's talks with Dumbledore's portrait it would have come up that Voldemort had a child and Dumbledore said something like "That surprises me Harry but I suppose we all give into temptation at some point" or "That surprises me Harry, but I suppose he might have wanted an heir". It wouldn't have been that hard and I think it would have made things better than it just coming out of nowhere and everyone acting like it's no big deal.

But leaving aside the matter of Voldemort's sex life for a moment (if we can), the bigger issue for me was this so called prophecy about Cedric. First of all, Cedric was a very minor character in the books and it seems weird to me that suddenly so many things (like the outcome of the war itself!) depend on his actions. It just wasn't entirely satisfactory to me. I understand the need to revisit his death because of all the deaths Harry witnessed, his was the most pointless and therefore probably most traumatising. But ultimately he became too much of an important player. And the prophecy made no sense to me! Why would saving Cedric also save Voldemort (or bring him back) and why would Rodolphus Lestrange know of such a prophecy? The whole thing just makes it seem as though there is a story behind the story but we only get bits and pieces of it in the actual play. It's not properly explained and since this is supposed to be the villain's background, it deserved more of an explanation.


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  #156  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 10:45 am
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

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Originally Posted by Kanksha
I just finished it, and i tried to like it. But for the most part, I couldn't. The characters didn't feel authentic to me at all. I think they lost me towards the end of Act Two when:

Spoiler: show
Harry Potter who once Crucio'd a man for spitting at Minerva McGonagall said to her "You don't have children, so you don't understand" and "This map will reveal to you where my son is at all times - I expect you to use it. And if I hear you don't - then I will come down on this school as hard as I can - using the full force of the Ministry - is that understood?"

... Refusing to listen to the Minister for Magic, doing exactly as he pleases, ordering other people around. Which sounds kind of like what he did as a teenager, but there's now an arrogance to it. And I get that people change when they get older. But it didn't feel right.
For me, there were more things I liked in this script than I objected to, but I do totally agree with you about Harry.

That is not the Harry I love. Adult Harry being haunted by his past, Adult Harry suffering anguish about his parenting skills ... I can buy that. That fits. But I will not buy Adult Harry acting like such a git to both his son and to Minerva. Come ON. *

*but ccollinsmith has come up with a very good explanation for this!

Jamie Parker does look amazingly convincing as Harry. Apparently he's even incorporated some of Radcliffe's gestures into his performance. I do want to see that!

Also, I'm a bit meh about old stuff being revisited, like the Twizard Tournament and Godric's Hollow.

Thankfully, there are other things I like very much indeed, most of all Scorpius and Albus.

And the vindication of Snape.

And other things. The dialogue is very witty and sparkly.

I also very much like the play's central theme about confronting the past and trying to make peace with it, and how this plays out with Albus and Harry - and Scorpius and Draco.

And I can see how this would be AMAZING on stage.


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  #157  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 1:14 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

I am thinking we can remove the spoiler tags by now. So go ahead and just post without them. I've edited the opening post accordingly.

I´m totally on the wagon with those having issues with Harry´s behaviour. I understand they wanted to have a rift between Harry and Albus. But you can do that without having Harry act like such a jerk. IMO since Albus is a teenager, he wants to rebel so work with that, you don´t need to change Harry and make him act like an ***.


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  #158  
Old August 2nd, 2016, 1:45 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Spoiler tags removed, per Hes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanksha View Post
Harry Potter who once Crucio'd a man for spitting at Minerva McGonagall said to her "You don't have children, so you don't understand" and "This map will reveal to you where my son is at all times - I expect you to use it. And if I hear you don't - then I will come down on this school as hard as I can - using the full force of the Ministry - is that understood?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
For me, there were more things I liked in this script than I objected to, but I do totally agree with you about Harry.

That is not the Harry I love. Adult Harry being haunted by his past, Adult Harry suffering anguish about his parenting skills ... I can buy that. That fits. But I will not buy Adult Harry acting like such a git to both his son and to Minerva. Come ON.
You are right that this is not OUR Harry.

But I think you are missing something here: The timeline in which Harry is forcing McGonnagall to spy on Albus and Scorpius against her will is not the canonical timeline.

The Harry in that timeline is not only not "our" Harry; he's not supposed to be "our" Harry. He's an alternate timeline Harry. In his timeline, Ron and Hermione never married. In his timeline, Albus sorted into Gryffindor. In his timeline, it's possible that the Crucio incident never even occurred.

The play is using a science fiction time paradox trope known as "The Grandfather Paradox." One of the standard conventions of this trope is that when the timeline alters due to time meddling, the characters who still exist alter as well.

Everything up to the TriWizard Tournament is the same in all the timelines. Everything after the TriWizard Tournament is different - not just for the world, but for the characters. Basically, these alternate timelines are alternate universes, and the characters in them are alternate characters.

I think we need to be careful about imposing our ideas about the canonical characters on their alternate-timeline / alternate-universe counterparts. This goes not just for Harry but for all the alternate-timeline characters we meet, including the "kinder, gentler" Snape.

BTW, one of the most famous examples of how characters differ in alternate universes comes from the Star Trek episode "Mirror, Mirror." Here's the opening sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9xN0Ol5vZQ

So far as we know, time meddling did not create the alternate universe seen in that episode, but the convention of having alternate characters in alternate universes holds true. (BTW, the episode "City on the Edge of Forever" deals more directly with the Grandfather Paradox, and just as in this play, Kirk allows a personally tragic historical event to happen in order to prevent the horrible future that would result if it did not happen).

Anyway, think of "Pirate Spock" when thinking about the alternate timeline characters in this play. The characters in the canonical timeline (the timeline in which Albus sorts into Slytherin) should play out like "our" characters, and we can judge them as "not true to their characters" if they don't.

But according to conventions of the time travel trope being used, the characters in the alternate timelines should be different from their canonical counterparts.


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Last edited by ccollinsmith; August 2nd, 2016 at 2:12 pm.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 2:13 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (with spoilers)

Yeah characters in alternate timelines should be different, debatable imo is if these characters would be this different. Harry had flaws in the books, but would any circumstances push him into his treatment of Albus, McGonagall etc... don't know. I almost always have issues with time travel in fandoms so that's probably the reason I dislike it.


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Old August 2nd, 2016, 2:43 pm
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Re: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post

You are right that this is not OUR Harry.

But I think you are missing something here: The timeline in which Harry is forcing McGonnagall to spy on Albus and Scorpius against her will is not the canonical timeline.

The Harry in that timeline is not only not "our" Harry; he's not supposed to be "our" Harry. He's an alternate timeline Harry. In his timeline, Ron and Hermione never married. In his timeline, Albus sorted into Gryffindor. In his timeline, it's possible that the Crucio incident never even occurred.

The play is using a science fiction time paradox trope known as "The Grandfather Paradox." One of the standard conventions of this trope is that when the timeline alters due to time meddling, the characters who still exist alter as well.

I think we need to be careful about imposing our ideas about the canonical characters on their alternate-timeline / alternate-universe counterparts. This goes not just for Harry but for all the alternate-timeline characters we meet, including the "kinder, gentler" Snape.
Ah, yes, of course. That makes sense.

I wish that the playwrights, working with Jo, had come up with something a bit more fresh and original than the good old 'tampering with the timeline/butterfly effect' thing, but there is still plenty in this script that I like.


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