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  #21  
Old June 24th, 2003, 2:11 pm
phoenix_tears_uk phoenix_tears_uk is offline
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Harry's Mum....

I've been thinking, what if Harry's mum isn't really dead? It's the thestrals you see, prior to OotP Harry couldn't see them. At the end of GoF Harry witnessed Cedric's death thereby allowing him to see the thestrals. But surely as he witnessed his mother's death at the age of 1 he should have been able to see them from the start of his time at Hogwarts? So what if his mum's not really dead? Maybe she was a follower of Voldemort, or a dupicate of her body had been replaced in Godric's Hollow? Far fetched I know, but the thestral thing still has me wondering.... What d'ya think?


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  #22  
Old June 24th, 2003, 2:21 pm
teacup teacup is offline
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Well now that you mention it that could be a possibility... it's just something that feels so right though :P


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  #23  
Old June 24th, 2003, 2:25 pm
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I'm not sure what to think but JK has said previously that neither Lily or James will apear alive again in the series. Perhaps you have to remember the death.


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  #24  
Old June 24th, 2003, 2:38 pm
Connie Connie is offline
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No, his mom is dead, remember in Goblet, her ghost came out of Voldemort's wand. The big question is, why, if the ghosts appeared in the order the wand killed them, did James appear before Lilly, when it's been established that he was killed before her?

Questions, questions, and only JK knows!:yup:


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  #25  
Old June 24th, 2003, 4:08 pm
Snape's Cape Snape's Cape is offline
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I notice that Neville could see the Thestrals too. Does this mean that his story is even worse than his parents getting tortured into insanity?


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  #26  
Old June 24th, 2003, 4:30 pm
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Yes, I wondered that. Neville says he saw his grandfather die, but is that the whole truth?


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  #27  
Old June 24th, 2003, 4:37 pm
pegoheart144  Female.gif pegoheart144 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bubblesofdeath88 (original post)
Ya I was also wondering why he couldnt see them, because I thought that he had acctually witnessed his parents death, but I guess that he didnt.

And also, what happened to the Thestrals that they rode to the ministry? did they fly back? Because Harry didnt mention them to DD.
But I think Harry only HEARD his parents being killed (particularly his mother), I don't think he actually saw her killed. Whereas, Harry saw Cedric get killed.

Will those that were inolved in the fight when Sirius was killed now be able to see the Thestrals?


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  #28  
Old June 24th, 2003, 4:45 pm
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yes, but as Ron and Hermione weren't there, only Neville was, no one new would be albe to see them. I expect Dumbledore and all the adults have seen death anyway.


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  #29  
Old June 24th, 2003, 4:50 pm
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Re: Questions about thestrals

1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

Perhaps for the same reason that Boggarts aren't in Fantastic Beasts, whatever that reason it. Perhaps because they're too rare to be listed. Perhaps they weren't discovered when Newt Scamander wrote Fantastic Beasts. Perhaps Ms Rowling only came up with the concept of them AFTER she'd written Fantastic Beasts?


2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

Harry did not see his parents die. He saw green light. That is all he saw.

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?

Probably. Seeing your own death has to have some effect on you.

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?

Yes, I'm sure you have to really see it. Seeing a death on telly is nothing like seeing one in reality.

6. Where did number 4 go?

It sadly went beyond the black Veil, I think...


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  #30  
Old June 24th, 2003, 5:06 pm
bocoson bocoson is offline
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Well, assuming that the students get back to the train station from Hogwarts the same way they go there (by carriage, thestrals pulling), why didn't Harry or, Rowling, point out this at the end of book 4? Or did he get back to the station a different way? A friend has my book 4 so I can't check, but Cedric died before Harry went back, so why didn't he see them whilst going back to the station?

I think everything else has been covered.


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  #31  
Old June 24th, 2003, 5:21 pm
Maiden_of_Rohan Maiden_of_Rohan is offline
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I wondered that too, Bocoson. But I looked up the passage in GOF and Rowling only mentions Hermione looking at the horseless carriages. Maybe Harry was so preoccupied that he did not notice the thestrals; although, I have no idea how he wouldn't notice winged horses.


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  #32  
Old June 24th, 2003, 5:27 pm
MissFlibble MissFlibble is offline
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Boggarts and HinkyPunks are in Fantastic Beasts either.


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  #33  
Old June 24th, 2003, 5:30 pm
MissFlibble MissFlibble is offline
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*aren't


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  #34  
Old June 24th, 2003, 6:05 pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by MissFlibble (original post)
Boggarts and HinkyPunks are in Fantastic Beasts either.
Not even Hinkypunks? That's surprising. I was thinking that maybe Boggarts could in some way be defined as 'beings' or 'spirits' but I don't think Hinkypunks could...

Maybe certain Dark creatures have catagories of their own? And perhaps Thestrals are considered Dark creatures...?


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  #35  
Old June 24th, 2003, 7:48 pm
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Throughout the whole series, I've been suspecting in the back of my mind that Lily might still be alive, but after that Priori Incantatem business in GoF, it's becoming more unlikely. Does anyone here have a link to the interview where JK said that we'll never see a live Lily and James? Maybe she said something slightly different, but people have talked about it so much that it got slightly distorted. I think it would be really cool though if Lily was still alive. We're supposed to find out something huge about her in the last book, after all....


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  #36  
Old June 24th, 2003, 7:49 pm
Hpmons  Female.gif Hpmons is offline
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The James/Lily Proir Incantatem thing was a mistake; I think it might have been changed in later editions.

JKR has said somewhere that we wont see either of them alive again, meaning their dead I presume (she phrased it in a way so that we cant rule out Lily being a ghost...)


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  #37  
Old June 24th, 2003, 8:07 pm
LoonyLunaLovegood LoonyLunaLovegood is offline
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After the lesson with the thestrals in Hagrids class, Hermione said there were three people that could see them. I know Harry and Neville can see them, who was the third? Was that Hagrid or someone else I missed?


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  #38  
Old June 24th, 2003, 8:11 pm
pegoheart144  Female.gif pegoheart144 is offline
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Well Luna can see them but she isn't in their class. So I'm not sure.:??:


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  #39  
Old June 25th, 2003, 10:24 am
preludetoadream preludetoadream is offline
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The thrird was a boy in slytherine but we don't know his name.

I got the feeling Neville MAY have just said that because he didn't really want to show his 'cards' to Umbridge (did I spell that wrong??) let alone his class AND Slytherine people after all he didn't want people to know about his mum and dad


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  #40  
Old June 25th, 2003, 10:42 am
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1. Why aren't they mentioned in Magical Beasts? Maybe they are and I've just forgotten, but I don't think they were. The book mentioned "winged horses," but the thestrals are quite a bit more than that, aren't they? They're sort of part-dragon, and very skeletal.

I don't think JK meant to write them as they are but changed her mind upon writing the fifth book...


2. Why couldn't Harry see the thestrals before? He's seen death--he watched his parents die. Do you have to REMEMBER the death you witnessed in order to see thestrals?

I am guessing you have to REMEMBER the death...
your question is also my question

3. What about ghosts? If they never witnessed a death in their life until their own, can they see the thestrals?
I think they can.. they have first-hand experience of death after all

5. Do you have to actually be present when they die? If you were a wizard fond of Muggle TV and saw a public execution, would you suddenly start seeing thestrals?
I guess public execution isn't as shocking as someone dying right in front of you.. . It's First-hand experience anyway... TV.. I think it is more of second-hand even if it was live

6. Where did number 4 go?

they are visible only to those who have witnessed death...-_-?


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