Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14



View Poll Results: Did Snape pass Voldemort the information that led to Vance's capture and murder?
Yes, he told the Black sisters the truth and acted for the greater good. 14 13.33%
Yes, I believe he did. Dumbledore's orders. 19 18.10%
Yes. He cared about Lily and no-one else. 13 12.38%
Maybe. This does not become clear in the text. 47 44.76%
It is of course possible but he had changed so much by then that I don't believe it. 11 10.48%
No, he would not have caused another woman's death, no way. 8 7.62%
No, he was lying to the Black sisters to gain their trust. That's what spies do. 28 26.67%
Something else Moriath forgot to mention. 12 11.43%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old February 1st, 2010, 9:36 pm
TreacleTartlet  Female.gif TreacleTartlet is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5241 days
Posts: 2,036
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
You state your case very well except that I cannot under any circumstances see the Marauders as probable murderers.
But from Severus' point of view he did and he even mentions it 17 years later.

PoA, Hermione's Secret
"Sirius Black showed he was capable of murder at the age of sixteen," he breathed. "You haven’t forgotten that, Headmaster? You haven’t forgotten that he once tried to kill me?"

Quote:
Frankly it was none of Snape's business what Remus was doing on those days and I have to say that he should have stayed out of it completely. That however does not make Sirius' actions palatable in any way, but I do not believe he meant murder and if Snape did believe that, then it says more about his thought processes at that time than it does about Sirius.
It may have been none of Snape's business, but he shouldn't have had his life put at risk for being nosey, even if he was trying to get the Marauders expelled.

Quote:
Remus was at the school under Dumbledore's aegis and that was good enough for every student except Snape.
As far as we know none of the other students suspected Remus of being a werewolf. The fact that Dumbledore kept it all hush hush shows that it wouldn't have been acceptable to the general student body or their parents.

Quote:
IMO,Snape hated the Marauders and he projected his feelings of hate onto them. I cannot forget that he devised the Sectumsepra spell for his enemies, that says a lot about him while he was going to school.
I think he had good reason to hate the Marauders. As for creating Sectumsempra, it only shows me that he felt the need to protect himself. Not that I approve of such a spell.

Moved from the Snape and Lily thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
IMO Snape has access to a lot of assumptions and treats them like cold, hard facts. Severus can believe the moon is made of green cheese , it doesn't make it so. .
Whether Severus believes something rightly or wrongly is not what is in question as far as I am concerned. As I see it, Severus' thoughts, beliefs and motivations are important to how and why he behaves in certain ways, including his conversation with Lily.


Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old February 1st, 2010, 10:23 pm
kittling's Avatar
kittling  Female.gif kittling is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 4348 days
Location: UK
Posts: 1,071
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

I think the distinction between fact and what a character believes is very important. It really is fairly irrelivant how right or wrong that belief is when trying to understand how it affected thier behaviour, whre as that the belief existes is very important to gaining an understand of how it affected thier behaviour.


__________________


My Fanfic - The Silver Thread - (WIP) updated 03/07/09

Sig by the most professional, clever & witty Boushh
(Original photo-manipulation of AR by helin)
  #83  
Old February 1st, 2010, 10:32 pm
eliza101  Female.gif eliza101 is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4589 days
Location: Bag End
Posts: 1,605
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by TreacleTartlet View Post
But from Severus' point of view he did and he even mentions it 17 years later.

PoA, Hermione's Secret
"Sirius Black showed he was capable of murder at the age of sixteen," he breathed. "You haven’t forgotten that, Headmaster? You haven’t forgotten that he once tried to kill me?"



It may have been none of Snape's business, but he shouldn't have had his life put at risk for being nosey, even if he was trying to get the Marauders expelled.



As far as we know none of the other students suspected Remus of being a werewolf. The fact that Dumbledore kept it all hush hush shows that it wouldn't have been acceptable to the general student body or their parents.



I think he had good reason to hate the Marauders. As for creating Sectumsempra, it only shows me that he felt the need to protect himself. Not that I approve of such a spell.

Moved from the Snape and Lily thread.



Whether Severus believes something rightly or wrongly is not what is in question as far as I am concerned. As I see it, Severus' thoughts, beliefs and motivations are important to how and why he behaves in certain ways, including his conversation with Lily.
Understanding that Snape believes things in a certain is not condoning what he believes his actions that stem from those beliefs. His beliefs are just that, his beliefs. That in no way makes them fact and incumbant on other people to be influenced by them. The Marauders bad behaviour does not excuse his, just as it is not a spur for his subsequent good behaviour.
As for the POA, I think (and It's just my opinion) the less said about Snape's behaviour in that book the better. He was proved wrong about Sirius and Remus time after time. What came out of his mouth then was anger and hatred for the person he thought was responsible for Lily's death and he did not want to have that opinion contradicted. I think Snape wants to believe ill of the Marauders, because lets face it they were nasty gits to him. (Well James and Sirius was.)
Snape has his faults and one of them IMO is his tendency to cherish the wrongs done to him. He grew up so much, I wish he had been able to let go of the poison of his bitterness toward the Marauders. Not for them, but for his own sake.


  #84  
Old February 1st, 2010, 10:52 pm
UselessCharmMaster  Undisclosed.gif UselessCharmMaster is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6009 days
Location: Glass jar on Snape's desk
Posts: 1,148
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
Understanding that Snape believes things in a certain is not condoning what he believes his actions that stem from those beliefs. His beliefs are just that, his beliefs. That in no way makes them fact and incumbant on other people to be influenced by them.
But his beliefs explain his acts, and that is what we're discussing here.

Quote:
As for the POA, I think (and It's just my opinion) the less said about Snape's behaviour in that book the better. He was proved wrong about Sirius and Remus time after time. What came out of his mouth then was anger and hatred for the person he thought was responsible for Lily's death and he did not want to have that opinion contradicted. I think Snape wants to believe ill of the Marauders, because lets face it they were nasty gits to him. (Well James and Sirius was.)
He was wrong about Sirius being a traitor and murderer - as almost the whole wizarding world. He was - maybe not in a good, but certainly in a BIG company there.

He was wrong about Remus - yes. Still, Remus kept for himself an important information - about Sirius being an Animagus, so Snape wasn't even so wrong about him being not entirely trustworthy...

He didn't want his opinion contradicted - of course, let's face it, who actually likes being contradicted?

Quote:
He grew up so much, I wish he had been able to let go of the poison of his bitterness toward the Marauders.
Oh, this sentence could be directly applied to other characters than Snape. Being stuck in the past is one of the most frequent things that happen in the Potterverse.

And you are absolutely right, they were real gits to him. But that should be discussed in the Maraduders thread.


__________________
Severus Snape: More Enigma Than Riddle

There is nothing wrong in being ambitious.
  #85  
Old February 3rd, 2010, 11:06 pm
UselessCharmMaster  Undisclosed.gif UselessCharmMaster is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 6009 days
Location: Glass jar on Snape's desk
Posts: 1,148
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Sorry for the doubleposting, but I just wanted to bring here something posted on Harry Potter's thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
Severus Snape had to walk calmly, straight into danger the night Voldemort regained his body - not knowing what the outcome would be. He had to walk calmly, straight into danger every time he met with Voldemort. And when Voldemort was about to murder him, he had to master his fear and accept that there was nothing he could do except protect the secrets from Voldemort that were given to him to protect.

It is actually quite remarkable that he maintained his Occlumency skills against Voldemort even in the face of certain death, and even after Nagini bit him.

All of that does [...] take a very different and difficult type of courage. It's one thing to throw yourself into battle. It's quite another to walk calmly into the face of death and stay focused and true to your mission up to the moment of death.
I think that's a brilliant description of what makes so many readers just love this character. I'd like only to add:

Snape could not expect any real reward, because the spies rarely get their reward. The spies don't get monuments to honour them (or even portraits in Hogwarts ) or mentions in history schoolbooks. They can expect an obscure, ignored and cruel death, and to be despised by many people who can't even imagine their sacrifice. Severus Snape, a clever, ambitious man, consciously chose this path.


__________________
Severus Snape: More Enigma Than Riddle

There is nothing wrong in being ambitious.
  #86  
Old February 4th, 2010, 3:27 am
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is offline
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 3709 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,273
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessCharmMaster View Post
Sorry for the doubleposting, but I just wanted to bring here something posted on Harry Potter's thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith
Severus Snape had to walk calmly, straight into danger the night Voldemort regained his body - not knowing what the outcome would be. He had to walk calmly, straight into danger every time he met with Voldemort. And when Voldemort was about to murder him, he had to master his fear and accept that there was nothing he could do except protect the secrets from Voldemort that were given to him to protect.

It is actually quite remarkable that he maintained his Occlumency skills against Voldemort even in the face of certain death, and even after Nagini bit him.

All of that does [...] take a very different and difficult type of courage. It's one thing to throw yourself into battle. It's quite another to walk calmly into the face of death and stay focused and true to your mission up to the moment of death.
I think that's a brilliant description of what makes so many readers just love this character. I'd like only to add:

Snape could not expect any real reward, because the spies rarely get their reward. The spies don't get monuments to honour them (or even portraits in Hogwarts ) or mentions in history schoolbooks. They can expect an obscure, ignored and cruel death, and to be despised by many people who can't even imagine their sacrifice. Severus Snape, a clever, ambitious man, consciously chose this path.
I am quite honored that you brought that quote from my post over here. The context of the quote was a discussion of why Harry singled out Severus Snape for the honor of being called "bravest man" he ever knew - when Harry knew quite a lot of other brave people.

You are quite right, UCM, that Snape could not expect reward, and he certainly received none during his life. Instead, he was hated and despised by the very people he sought to protect. I do suspect, though, that unlike other spies he would have received high honors posthumously and been regarded as a war hero of the Second Wizarding War. I think Harry would have insisted on it.


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!
  #87  
Old February 4th, 2010, 3:30 am
ignisia's Avatar
ignisia  Female.gif ignisia is offline
Leader of the GLITTELUTION
 
Joined: 5013 days
Location: Sitting in a Tin Can
Age: 31
Posts: 4,418
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Harry probably would-- he does seem to deeply respect Snape in the epilogue. However, Severus did think Harry would die, and that Severus' own secrets (including his love for Lily and his true loyalties) would die with him.


__________________
I am incapable of hating someone who, instead of using a spell to guard the Sorcerer's Stone, uses a logic puzzle.
I'm sorry.



VIVA LA GLITTELUTION
Looking for a home away from home?
Hogsmeade ~ Apparate.me
Avatar by SIP
  #88  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:27 am
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is offline
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 3709 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,273
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignisia View Post
Harry probably would-- he does seem to deeply respect Snape in the epilogue. However, Severus did think Harry would die, and that Severus' own secrets (including his love for Lily and his true loyalties) would die with him.
This is true. In other words, he worked in secret, not expecting any posthumous glory. And most likely expecting an ignominious death.


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!
  #89  
Old February 4th, 2010, 7:45 am
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 6044 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
This is true. In other words, he worked in secret, not expecting any posthumous glory. And most likely expecting an ignominious death.
And that's exactly why I could never understand all the theories about Snape being out for himself, seeking future glory. His whole life is sort of "underground" by choice, and his painful death nearly out of sight in an abandoned house is symbolic of that.

It's a parallel with Frank Bryce in GoF, because he was an old soldier wrongly accused of murdering the Riddles and all sorts of things by the local people. But then he shows his bravery by walking right into Voldemort's presence and meeting his death. Frank even walks with a limp, just as Snape does in Book One after tangling with Fluffy.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon
  #90  
Old February 4th, 2010, 11:23 am
eliza101  Female.gif eliza101 is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4589 days
Location: Bag End
Posts: 1,605
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
And that's exactly why I could never understand all the theories about Snape being out for himself, seeking future glory. His whole life is sort of "underground" by choice, and his painful death nearly out of sight in an abandoned house is symbolic of that.

It's a parallel with Frank Bryce in GoF, because he was an old soldier wrongly accused of murdering the Riddles and all sorts of things by the local people. But then he shows his bravery by walking right into Voldemort's presence and meeting his death. Frank even walks with a limp, just as Snape does in Book One after tangling with Fluffy.
Frank Bryce walked up to the house because he thought some village kids had broken in and were vandalising the place. Brave enough in it's way but he didn't know who Voldemort was. If he had I think he would have run a mile in the other direction, bad leg and all. What sensible person wouldn't.
I'm not disparaging Snape's bravery, I just think his motives were a little tangled.


  #91  
Old February 4th, 2010, 1:42 pm
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 6044 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
Frank Bryce walked up to the house because he thought some village kids had broken in and were vandalising the place. Brave enough in it's way but he didn't know who Voldemort was. If he had I think he would have run a mile in the other direction, bad leg and all. What sensible person wouldn't.
I'm not disparaging Snape's bravery, I just think his motives were a little tangled.
Frank overheard Voldemort and Peter talking about being wizards, but we went forward anyway.

I beg to differ that Frank would have run away. The point of Frank's character - in my opinion - is that he never ran away, even when being accused of the murder of his employers, and he stayed in a town where he wasn't welcome. That reminds me of Snape - the point being he was not the sort of man to run away.

Also they were both killed by Nagini. There's that little point, too.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon
  #92  
Old February 4th, 2010, 3:50 pm
weaver  Undisclosed.gif weaver is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 5221 days
Posts: 95
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Re: ccollinsmith's description of Snape's bravery and ignisia's observation that Harry would understand.

This is a huge parallel between Snape and Harry that I'm sure has been discussed before - they both calmly walked into situations they knew could, perhaps should, result in their deaths. Of course Harry, in retrospect, understood Snape's bravery. Snape's bravery was the same as his.

Re: SIP's drawing the parallel between Frank Bryce and Snape.

I had never thought of that before. They did both approach danger calmly. In this Harry parallels them both. Both Snape and Frank stayed in places where they were at least mistrusted, if not disliked. JKR tries to show Harry paralleling this as well. He stays with the Dursleys through necessity, and even though he has great support at Hogwarts, he also has to deal with a lot of negative press.

The parallels between Snape and Harry are too many for me to believe that it was unintentional on JKR's part.


__________________
One can always be kind to people about whom one cares nothing.

Oscar Wilde
  #93  
Old February 4th, 2010, 3:55 pm
eliza101  Female.gif eliza101 is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4589 days
Location: Bag End
Posts: 1,605
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
Frank overheard Voldemort and Peter talking about being wizards, but we went forward anyway.

I beg to differ that Frank would have run away. The point of Frank's character - in my opinion - is that he never ran away, even when being accused of the murder of his employers, and he stayed in a town where he wasn't welcome. That reminds me of Snape - the point being he was not the sort of man to run away.

Also they were both killed by Nagini. There's that little point, too.
Well Frank was old and the voices were murmuring, I'm not saying he wasn't brave. I'm saying he didn't know what he was facing and I think any sensible person would try to escape if they knew what was in that room. Nobody except Harry is going to walk willingly to their deaths. Frank IMO walked blindly to his.
Nagini was an equal opportunity killer.


  #94  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:07 pm
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 6044 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver View Post
Re: SIP's drawing the parallel between Frank Bryce and Snape.

I had never thought of that before. They did both approach danger calmly. In this Harry parallels them both. Both Snape and Frank stayed in places where they were at least mistrusted, if not disliked. JKR tries to show Harry paralleling this as well. He stays with the Dursleys through necessity, and even though he has great support at Hogwarts, he also has to deal with a lot of negative press.

The parallels between Snape and Harry are too many for me to believe that it was unintentional on JKR's part.
Hi, Weaver!

Another parallel is that Harry is also attacked by the snake inside Bathilda's abandoned house. So that's Frank, Snape, Harry - and to me they are all brave. Harry is only saved by Hermione's quick thinking, so he's the lucky one of the three.

Each of them is also a little confused about what's going on just before they are attacked - I guess they had "snake charm syndrome." Frank thinks there are kids in the house and doesn't believe in wizards. Snape has no knowledge of the Elder Wand. And Harry is fooled by Inferi-Bathilda.

ETA: I see the death of Frank and the attack on Mr. Weasley at the Ministry as foreshadowing for what happens to Harry and Snape (and Charity Burbage) in DH.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon

Last edited by silver ink pot; February 4th, 2010 at 4:09 pm.
  #95  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:12 pm
ccollinsmith's Avatar
ccollinsmith  Female.gif ccollinsmith is offline
Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
 
Joined: 3709 days
Location: The Village
Posts: 2,273
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101 View Post
I'm not disparaging Snape's bravery, I just think his motives were a little tangled.
His motives may have been tangled in the beginning, but not by the end. Lupin would have died above Little Whinging if Snape had not nearly blown his own cover trying to hit a Death Eater with a Sectumsempra in order to save Lupin's life. Snape does the right thing for its own sake - against an old enemy, and an old enemy who would have turned right around and killed him if given the chance. (Nothing disparaging there about Lupin. Lupin thinks Snape is the enemy, so of course he'd try to kill). Snape didn't do that for Lily, and he didn't do it for revenge against Voldemort. He did it because Lupin's was a life he could save, and he is trying to save all the lives he can.

Also, the notion of tangled motives argues against other statements you've made about Snape being The Redeemed Man. Where is he in the end? Redeemed or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza101
Well Frank was old and the voices were murmuring, I'm not saying he wasn't brave. I'm saying he didn't know what he was facing and I think any sensible person would try to escape if they knew what was in that room. Nobody except Harry is going to walk willingly to their deaths. Frank IMO walked blindly to his.
However, he did show a completely different kind of bravery - and one more similar to Snape's. He stayed put in a village where he was despised and mistrusted after the deaths of the Riddles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver
This is a huge parallel between Snape and Harry that I'm sure has been discussed before - they both calmly walked into situations they knew could, perhaps should, result in their deaths. Of course Harry, in retrospect, understood Snape's bravery. Snape's bravery was the same as his.

[snip...]

The parallels between Snape and Harry are too many for me to believe that it was unintentional on JKR's part.
JKR draws a lot of parallels between Snape and Harry throughout the text. Some of them are blatant and others are more subtle, using language and descriptions to draw parallels. One of the most interesting for me is in the description of their clothes as children. In fact, one wonders if Petunia deliberately dressed this wizard child almost exactly like the wizard boy she knew as a girl.

I have to slip out of this thread for the next 24 hours due to a family situation. But I'll be back, maybe, tomorrow to see where the conversation is then. Have fun!


__________________



Hogsmeade Awards 2013: Voted #1 - Biggest Cat Lover | Voted #2 - Most Creative Member |
Voted #2 - Most Likely to Make a Doctor Who Reference


VIVA LA GLITTELUTION!

Last edited by ccollinsmith; February 4th, 2010 at 4:18 pm.
  #96  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:33 pm
OldMotherCrow's Avatar
OldMotherCrow  Female.gif OldMotherCrow is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4139 days
Location: Here. I'm pretty sure of it.
Posts: 1,297
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
Hi, Weaver!

Another parallel is that Harry is also attacked by the snake inside Bathilda's abandoned house. So that's Frank, Snape, Harry - and to me they are all brave. Harry is only saved by Hermione's quick thinking, so he's the lucky one of the three.

Each of them is also a little confused about what's going on just before they are attacked - I guess they had "snake charm syndrome." Frank thinks there are kids in the house and doesn't believe in wizards. Snape has no knowledge of the Elder Wand. And Harry is fooled by Inferi-Bathilda.

ETA: I see the death of Frank and the attack on Mr. Weasley at the Ministry as foreshadowing for what happens to Harry and Snape (and Charity Burbage) in DH.
As I remember it, Frank Bryce was killed by the Killing Curse. I do think Frank was very brave, but I also think that there were a lot of people who were killed or tortured or maimed simply for crossing Voldemort's path, and that's the lesson I took from his death.


  #97  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:39 pm
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 6044 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
As I remember it, Frank Bryce was killed by the Killing Curse. I do think Frank was very brave, but I also think that there were a lot of people who were killed or tortured or maimed simply for crossing Voldemort's path, and that's the lesson I took from his death.
OK - my bad. Nagini notices Frank in the corridor and lets Voldemort know he is there. But I believe Dumbledore thought that Voldemort used Frank's death to make Nagini a horcrux, which is also significant.

Still - facing down Nagini in an old house - parallelism, imo.

ETA: Hold the phone - I was right, in a way. Or maybe JKR is wrong - I'm not sure.

I found the quote in an HP Lexicon essay - From HBP:

"I am sure he was intending to make his final horcrux with your death. . . . As we know, he failed. After an interval of some years, however, he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might have occurred to him to turn her into his last horcrux. She underlines the Slytherin connection, which enhances Lord Voldemort's mystique. . . . "

That doesn't explain why Frank's spirit comes out of Voldemort's wand, except that the wand caused the snake to attack Frank as it caused the Basilisk to attack Myrtle, and later Nagini to attack Snape.

ETA - Part 2

In the Lexicon Essay about Nagini as a horcrux, they state that maybe Dumbledore meant that Nagini ate Frank Bryce (ew) ala Charity Burbage. Whatever - it's a bit unclear, which is why I'm confused I guess.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon

Last edited by silver ink pot; February 4th, 2010 at 4:48 pm.
  #98  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:48 pm
OldMotherCrow's Avatar
OldMotherCrow  Female.gif OldMotherCrow is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4139 days
Location: Here. I'm pretty sure of it.
Posts: 1,297
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post
His motives may have been tangled in the beginning, but not by the end. Lupin would have died above Little Whinging if Snape had not nearly blown his own cover trying to hit a Death Eater with a Sectumsempra in order to save Lupin's life.
Sorry, but this is not canon, no matter how many times people say it! The part where Lupin was going to die, anyway. I agree that Snape risked his cover in an attempt to save Lupin, though.

Quote:
Snape does the right thing for its own sake - against an old enemy, and an old enemy who would have turned right around and killed him if given the chance. (Nothing disparaging there about Lupin. Lupin thinks Snape is the enemy, so of course he'd try to kill). Snape didn't do that for Lily, and he didn't do it for revenge against Voldemort. He did it because Lupin's was a life he could save, and he is trying to save all the lives he can.
I agree... but ironically Snape is the one who betrayed the Order, so I really have mixed feelings about singing his praises here. That whole plotline bothers me. I agree though that Snape's attempt to save Lupin was meant to confirm that he wanted to save "people", not just Lily.

Quote:
However, he [Frank Bryce] did show a completely different kind of bravery - and one more similar to Snape's. He stayed put in a village where he was despised and mistrusted after the deaths of the Riddles.
Frank was innocent: Innocent of killing anyone, ever working for the enemy, and the trickery and decieving of allies. So I think his bravery was different still than Snape's. Was one form of bravery some how superior than another? I think that's where the contention comes from when it comes to Snape, because I don't place the different forms of bravery on a hierarchal plane. Harry seems to in the epilogue, but it is never explained why he thinks it, so I neither understand his position or how he got there.


  #99  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:52 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5316 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
Harry seems to in the epilogue, but it is never explained why he thinks it, so I neither understand his position or how he got there.
Harry does explain why he thinks it (in his walk to death in the Forest). He considers that what he is doing, is more difficult that what he has done in the past. He specifically touches on how an anticipated death is more difficult that a sudden one in the heat of a conflict, and on how difficult it is not to allow oneself to fight back. It is what he, himself, personally, has found harder. We may agree or disagree with him on that.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #100  
Old February 4th, 2010, 4:53 pm
OldMotherCrow's Avatar
OldMotherCrow  Female.gif OldMotherCrow is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 4139 days
Location: Here. I'm pretty sure of it.
Posts: 1,297
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.14

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post
I found the quote in an HP Lexicon essay - From HBP:

"I am sure he was intending to make his final horcrux with your death. . . . As we know, he failed. After an interval of some years, however, he used Nagini to kill an old Muggle man, and it might have occurred to him to turn her into his last horcrux. She underlines the Slytherin connection, which enhances Lord Voldemort's mystique. . . . "

That doesn't explain why Frank's spirit comes out of Voldemort's wand, except that the wand caused the snake to attack Frank as it caused the Basilisk to attack Myrtle, and later Nagini to attack Snape.

ETA - Part 2

In the Lexicon Essay about Nagini as a horcrux, they state that maybe Dumbledore meant that Nagini ate Frank Bryce (ew) ala Charity Burbage. Whatever - it's a bit unclear, which is why I'm confused I guess.
I just figured that Dumbledore was either talking about someone other than Frank Bryce, or Dumbledore got the details wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arithmancer View Post
Harry does explain why he thinks it (in his walk to death in the Forest). He considers that what he is doing, is more difficult that what he has done in the past. He specifically touches on how an anticipated death is more difficult that a sudden one in the heat of a conflict, and on how difficult it is not to allow oneself to fight back. It is what he, himself, personally, has found harder. We may agree or disagree with him on that.
I don't see it, because I don't remember Snape walking purposefully to his death. I don't remember Harry making the parallel, either.



Last edited by OldMotherCrow; February 4th, 2010 at 5:00 pm. Reason: to add smilies! It's a beautiful day, today :)
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, severus snape


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:48 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.