Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11



View Poll Results: What is Snape's greatest strength?
his ability to love 62 34.83%
his intellect 74 41.57%
his humour 27 15.17%
his ability to quickly adapt to changes 43 24.16%
his single-mindedness 30 16.85%
his bravery 88 49.44%
I don't see Snape having any particular strengths. 13 7.30%
You didn't list my favourite option. You're on Snape's radar now. 23 12.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old April 27th, 2009, 10:42 am
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4697 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I am not sure that Snape was immediately cognizant of the harm he had done to Harry, when he learned of Lily's death.
I don't think he cared just then about Harry, but I think it did come, when Dumbledore asked him for help. This is pure speculation, but maybe this thought crept into Snape's head for the first time in Dumbleore's office, when he could have realised that Dumbledore needed to ask for his help to protect Harry because his parents/Lily was not there to do so.

Quote:
I thought this was making sure Harry understood that initially, Snape really could not have cared less about him for his own sake. That, as well as the memory in which Dumbledore tells himto keep an eye on Quirrell.
I think he showed that he held himself responsible for what happened and in that responsibility comes Harry's well being too. For that was another thing that suffered because of Snape's action.

The memory where snape talks of Quirrell is very interesting, because of the memory itself, where he complains to Dumbledore, refusing to acknowledge openly that Harry was a different boy than his ranting and for showing that particular memory to Harry.

I have thought a lot about this scene mostly in resentment , because Dumbledore refused to look at Snape (this is where I took time to curse Dumbledore in the good old days lol). What I now see in this scene is a father/son thing, probably the only time in the books where you have a very different Snape. Snape leaning on someone (Dumbledore in this case) talking rather freely, or complaining rather freely, knowing that he would not be misunderstood and like a child ranting rather unfairly about Harry, knowing Harry was nothing as he mentioned. Like kids do to their parents about their siblings and how wronged they have been, knowing that they are completely wrong about it.

Dumbledore did what a parent might do, ignore such things and tell him to get on with his work.

"You see what you expect to see Severus", said Dumbledore. - TPT, DH.

I think this explains much. The relationship between Snape and Dumbeldore, and Dumbledore's knowledge that Snape grumbled because of James, but these outward expressions of Snape about Harry meant nothing, for Snape knew it himself, he was just being stubborn about it vocally.

Why did Snape show this to Harry? I don't think it was because he cared not for Harry, but because he wanted to show Harry that his bark was worse than his bite. All that he said to Harry over the years, he asked or requested Harry to take it like Dumbledore did; ignore it.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old April 27th, 2009, 11:39 am
CathyWeasley's Avatar
CathyWeasley  Female.gif CathyWeasley is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5275 days
Location: ...erm...
Age: 54
Posts: 2,455
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Just jumping in here to say something before I forget.

It has just occurred to me (which probably means everyone else got it straight away) that when Snape sees Harry's memories during the occulmency lessons he is already aquainted with Petunia.
So it makes me wonder about his question "To whom did the dog belong?"
Did he perhaps think it was Petunias dog?
And how did he feel seeing Harry's memories and knowing he was being badly treated by Petunia?
Did he feel some sort of empathy for Harry as Harry did for Snape when he saw SWM? And is this the reason why that at the end of OotP the Dursleys are challenged by people from the wizarding world regarding their treatment of Harry for the first time?
Did Snape relate to Dumbledore everything that he had seen (I personally was sure he had done even before DH)?
How do you think Snape felt on seeing those memories and did these emotions find expression when he related these scenes to Dumbledore?

I'm off to ponder.


__________________




Even if everyone hates him for it, that's the sacrifice he's making. He's not being the hero. He's being something more.

He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.


Pottermore name: FlightMoonstone199

On CoS I'm in On Pottermore I'm in Maple and Unicorn, Thirteen and Three Quarter inches, Pliant

My Fanfic - Snape's Happy Ending


Avatar by Ben when he was 5- he's now 13!
  #43  
Old April 27th, 2009, 4:14 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5319 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
So it makes me wonder about his question "To whom did the dog belong?"
Did he perhaps think it was Petunias dog?
It seems likely.

Quote:
Did he feel some sort of empathy for Harry as Harry did for Snape when he saw SWM?
At the very least, he would have been forced to recognize that whether or not Harry is, personality-wise, James, Mark II, his early life was rather different from James's.

Quote:
How do you think Snape felt on seeing those memories and did these emotions find expression when he related these scenes to Dumbledore?
A possible additional reason behind Albus's "Have you come to care for the boy?" question, if yes.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #44  
Old April 27th, 2009, 4:37 pm
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4697 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
So it makes me wonder about his question "To whom did the dog belong?"
Did he perhaps think it was Petunias dog?
He could have. It was a question asked out of curiosity more than anything else I thought.

Quote:
And how did he feel seeing Harry's memories and knowing he was being badly treated by Petunia?
This is a tough one. Empathy; I think Snape would have sympathised with him, deep in the receess of his mind.

Quote:
Did he feel some sort of empathy for Harry as Harry did for Snape when he saw SWM?
I think so. Definitely.

Quote:
And is this the reason why that at the end of OotP the Dursleys are challenged by people from the wizarding world regarding their treatment of Harry for the first time?
I never thought of it, but it could very well be.

Quote:
Did Snape relate to Dumbledore everything that he had seen (I personally was sure he had done even before DH)?
Yes; I think so.

Quote:
How do you think Snape felt on seeing those memories and did these emotions find expression when he related these scenes to Dumbledore?
Empathy and perhaps anger for the way Harry's life was with the Dursleys. But to Dumbeldore, I think he would have simply told him the facts as he saw them, making sure that Dumbeldore felt more than guilty for not ensuring better treatment for Harry from his relatives.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
  #45  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:07 pm
Pearl_Took's Avatar
Pearl_Took  Female.gif Pearl_Took is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 4467 days
Location: The Shire
Posts: 3,634
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Fascinating questions, Cathy.

We can only speculate on Snape's reactions to seeing Harry's memories of being bullied by the Dursleys; there's no canon which indicates how he really felt about the boy's childhood.

I would like to say, straight off, that I see no any evidence that Severus felt malicious pleasure that Harry had been abused. None whatsoever.

But neither do I see any evidence that his opinion of Harry as a spoilt little James Mark Two changed much either. (I suppose Harry's action in viewing what was Snape's most private memory didn't exactly help in that regard. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
Empathy and perhaps anger for the way Harry's life was with the Dursleys. But to Dumbeldore, I think he would have simply told him the facts as he saw them, making sure that Dumbeldore felt more than guilty for not ensuring better treatment for Harry from his relatives.
Sorry, TGW, but what are you basing that assumption on? In the event that this actually happened (it's fiction so obviously we have no idea ) why would Snape have tried to make Dumbledore feel guilty?


__________________
  #46  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:11 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5319 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
But neither do I see any evidence that his opinion of Harry as a spoilt little James Mark Two changed much either. (I suppose Harry's action in viewing what was Snape's most private memory didn't exactly help in that regard. )
I was not suggesting it did. (Though I agree my penchant for tortured syntax might have made it seem so). I would say, based on the evidence of Snape and Harry's (one-sided) conversation during the Welcoming Feast in HBP, that Snape still saw similarities.

I was trying to say it is possible to still think Harry is just like James, even while learning that, unlike James, Harry did not live the life of a wealty, spoiled kid loved and indulged by his guardians.

Though, on some level by HBP it seems to me that either Snape saw something more in Harry, or he was able to recognize that even James, Mark II has admirable qualities. Becaues he never expressed any doubt about Harry's likely reaction to Albus's final secret.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #47  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:17 pm
Pearl_Took's Avatar
Pearl_Took  Female.gif Pearl_Took is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 4467 days
Location: The Shire
Posts: 3,634
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I was not suggesting it did. (Though I agree my penchant for tortured syntax might have made it seem so).
No, no, not at all! My remark wasn't actually in response to your earlier point, I was just thinking out loud.

Quote:
I would say, based on the evidence of Snape and Harry's (one-sided) conversation during the Welcoming Feast in HBP, that Snape still saw similarities.
I wouldn't dispute that.

Quote:
I was trying to say it is possible to still think Harry is just like James, even while learning that, unlike James, Harry did not live the life of a wealty, spoiled kid loved and indulged by his guardians.
Agreed.

Quote:
Though, on some level by HBP it seems to me that either Snape saw something more in Harry, or he was able to recognize that even James, Mark II has admirable qualities. Becaues he never expressed any doubt about Harry's likely reaction to Albus's final secret.
Again, I agree.


__________________
  #48  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:41 pm
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4697 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
Sorry, TGW, but what are you basing that assumption on?
My assessment of Snape's character and his silence after seeing Harry's memories. Not only does he not spread these to his Slytherins, but he never taunts or even asks Harry about it either.

Quote:
In the event that this actually happened (it's fiction so obviously we have no idea ) why would Snape have tried to make Dumbledore feel guilty?
Because it was Dumbledore's decision to place Harry with the Dursleys. I was answering CathyWeasley's questions, and this was what I thought as an answer to one of them.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
  #49  
Old April 27th, 2009, 5:45 pm
Pearl_Took's Avatar
Pearl_Took  Female.gif Pearl_Took is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 4467 days
Location: The Shire
Posts: 3,634
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
My assessment of Snape's character and his silence after seeing Harry's memories. Not only does he not spread these to his Slytherins, but he never taunts or even asks Harry about it either.
Well, I agree with that.

I mean, for Severus, that's really, being, erm, nice.

Quote:
Because it was Dumbledore's decision to place Harry with the Dursleys. I was answering CathyWeasley's questions, and this was what I thought as an answer to one of them.
Sure, I understand you were answering Cathy. I just don't know why Snape would have tried to make Dumbledore feel guilty about it. But it's all hypothesis anyway.


__________________
  #50  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:03 pm
arithmancer's Avatar
arithmancer  Undisclosed.gif arithmancer is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5319 days
Location: The Hogwarts Boathouse
Posts: 7,938
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
Sure, I understand you were answering Cathy. I just don't know why Snape would have tried to make Dumbledore feel guilty about it. But it's all hypothesis anyway.
I agree, I don't think this is Snape's style. He might express his own disapproval, but I don't see him as a person who would take it upon himself to make someone else feel guilty.

We see him interacting with Albus and discussing what he sees as questionable/wrong choices by Albus, in the scene in which Albus tells Snape that Harry must die. Snape reacts with horror and anger, but nothing he says in that scene suggests to me that it is calculated to induce a feeling of guilt in Albus.


__________________
The Sorting Hat says I belong in Slytherin.



“Death is the only pure, beautiful conclusion of a great passion.”-D. H. Lawrence

All was well.


Avatar by nerwende, signature art by sigune, used with permission.
  #51  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:23 pm
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4697 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
We see him interacting with Albus and discussing what he sees as questionable/wrong choices by Albus, in the scene in which Albus tells Snape that Harry must die. Snape reacts with horror and anger, but nothing he says in that scene suggests to me that it is calculated to induce a feeling of guilt in Albus.
This is about a future action, where the action could be stopped, discussed or abandoned if need be; but what Snape saw in Harry's memories would be what Harry has already gone through. When Dumbeldore tells Snape, Harry has to die, Snape is horrified, but accepts later because there is no other way.

Here there was another way. Dumbeldore could have checked up on Harry; could have made sure he was not placed in a cupboard under the stairs for 10 years. While the blood protection meant Harry could not go anywhere else, he could have had a better life than what he did IMO.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
  #52  
Old April 27th, 2009, 6:41 pm
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 5180 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,427
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
I would like to say, straight off, that I see no any evidence that Severus felt malicious pleasure that Harry had been abused. None whatsoever.
I would respectfully disagree. I think if that were true, he would not have continued to get pleasure out of abusing the child himself - as he did shortly thereafter when he broke his flask and gave him a zero - smirking. To me it seemed as if he was in sympathy with the Dursleys, limited only by his dislike of Petunia.

But you know, the upshot of this type of behavior by Snape comes with heavy returns. Very heavy. Harry risked his life to save Draco---why? But Harry stood (with friends) and watched Snape die without lifting a finger, except to his mouth to bite. Why? Well if Snape had been the kindly, but secretive professor, that would not have happened, imo. For merely spitting on McGonagall, Harry became a Knight in Shining Armor. For nothing at all, he risked death to save Draco. Heavy returns...


__________________

Last edited by wickedwickedboy; April 27th, 2009 at 6:44 pm.
  #53  
Old April 27th, 2009, 9:50 pm
Pearl_Took's Avatar
Pearl_Took  Female.gif Pearl_Took is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 4467 days
Location: The Shire
Posts: 3,634
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by zgirnius View Post
I agree, I don't think this is Snape's style. He might express his own disapproval, but I don't see him as a person who would take it upon himself to make someone else feel guilty.

We see him interacting with Albus and discussing what he sees as questionable/wrong choices by Albus, in the scene in which Albus tells Snape that Harry must die. Snape reacts with horror and anger, but nothing he says in that scene suggests to me that it is calculated to induce a feeling of guilt in Albus.
Yes, I agree. Severus has moved a long way since 1981 but he's still very matter-of-fact about hard realities. He never strikes me as the sentimental sort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
I would respectfully disagree. I think if that were true, he would not have continued to get pleasure out of abusing the child himself - as he did shortly thereafter when he broke his flask and gave him a zero - smirking. To me it seemed as if he was in sympathy with the Dursleys, limited only by his dislike of Petunia.
I think it is unnecessary to imply a connection between the Dursleys and Snape here, actually. The punishment Snape inflicted on Harry in this instance (and I agree that he was wrong!) was his revenge for Harry having peeked at Snape's most painful memory, IMO. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Snape feeling any kind of sympathetic connection with the Dursleys, whose abuse of Harry had been worse. It's not like everyone who dislikes Harry is related to each other by some kind of empathetic link.

Quote:
But you know, the upshot of this type of behavior by Snape comes with heavy returns. Very heavy. Harry risked his life to save Draco---why? But Harry stood (with friends) and watched Snape die without lifting a finger, except to his mouth to bite. Why? Well if Snape had been the kindly, but secretive professor, that would not have happened, imo.
If Snape had been a kindly, but secretive professor who had apparently been revealed to be a Death Eater, Harry still wouldn't have tried to stop Voldemort murdering him.

Quote:
For merely spitting on McGonagall, Harry became a Knight in Shining Armor. For nothing at all, he risked death to save Draco. Heavy returns...
I realise that for you the character gets everything he deserves, but I happen to see it very differently. The dying Snape still gets a compassionate Harry approaching him.

Which is just as well, of course.


__________________
  #54  
Old April 27th, 2009, 10:13 pm
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 5180 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,427
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
I think it is unnecessary to imply a connection between the Dursleys and Snape here, actually. The punishment Snape inflicted on Harry in this instance (and I agree that he was wrong!) was his revenge for Harry having peeked at Snape's most painful memory, IMO. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Snape feeling any kind of sympathetic connection with the Dursleys, whose abuse of Harry had been worse. It's not like everyone who dislikes Harry is related to each other by some kind of empathetic link.
I think it is equally unnecessary to imply Snape's sympathies. I feel that it could be either, but certainly it is cool to look at both views, no? Snape never became nicer or more sympathetic with Harry after hearing about his background - so I see no basis for the idea that he would feel any kinder feeling. The entire rationale is based on Snape having "been there", but in truth, we don't know what Snape went through as we only got snap shots of that as well, and nothing comparable to what happened to Harry.

This is the man who said (paraphrased): oh, let me tell you about your pops, he was an attempted murderer, did you know? No? Now you do, just because I don't want you to walk around thinking your father wasn't an attempted murderer - oh and by the way he was also a coward when it came to murdering; he got cold feet ya see because he feared backlash on himself and his friends, so he did something about it - not saving my life of course - he was saving himself by pulling me out of the tunnel.

He said this - all conjecture (his opinion) - to Harry, the dead man's son. And he was looking malicious and smirking as usual when he said it. Interpretations can vary all they like, but my interpretation of Snape does not change, neither in that scene, nor from scene to scene, allowing him to be Mr. wonderful on page 54 and Mr. horrible on page 63. I just can't interpret a character that way because that is not normal, that is schizophrenic to me. Also it seems rather pointless because even if he felt sympathy for a moment when hearing it - what did he do to show this? What changed? Next we saw him he was behaving in a negative manner to Harry yet again, imo.

Quote:
If Snape had been a kindly, but secretive professor who had apparently been revealed to be a Death Eater, Harry still wouldn't have tried to stop Voldemort murdering him.
I disagree. I think Harry would have doubted that he'd killed Dumbledore because he was a loyal Death Eater. I think he would have understood why Snape was so kind: making up for having played a role in killing his parents. And I think he'd of felt that if there was a chance there was any good in him, he was worth saving. That is how it was with Draco, no? He hated him, Draco was a marked Death Eater, he'd fought with Harry tooth and nail throughout the series and gave no reason at all as a basis for Harry saving him. But I think Harry saw that there was potential for being good in Draco. Harry didn't try to save Bella or anyone else he felt was evil. So I think it could have made all the difference in the world if Snape's behavior words and actions had differed. As it was, no one expected Harry to step in. But if he'd of let Draco die, I would have felt Harry was damned for all time.

Quote:
I realise that for you the character gets everything he deserves, but I happen to see it very differently. The dying Snape still gets a compassionate Harry approaching him. Which is just as well, of course.
It is not a matter of getting what he deserved, imo. I was just explaining why his negative behavior bit him in the end; I didn't say he deserved it. That was not a consideration at all, imo. All I was thinking about was Snape having been a kinder person and what it might have availed him in the end.


__________________

Last edited by wickedwickedboy; April 27th, 2009 at 10:23 pm.
  #55  
Old April 27th, 2009, 10:13 pm
ashwizard  Male.gif ashwizard is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 3954 days
Location: Mumbai
Age: 30
Posts: 21
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post

If Snape had been a kindly, but secretive professor who had apparently been revealed to be a Death Eater, Harry still wouldn't have tried to stop Voldemort murdering him.
Harry ,Ron and Hermione could not have stopped Voldemort from murdering Snape as Voldemort would know all too easily and would hve finished them immediately . And the whole thing happened very quickly . Nagini , before Snape knew what was going to happen, wrapped herself around him and bit his neck when Voldemort said "kill" in Parseltongue . It was inevitable .Anyway it was a good gesture by Harry to go to the dying man .This was a really perfect cold-blooded murder by Voldemort . He killed Snape for his own needs, the Elder Wand, and not because Snape had been unfaithful to him or anything .


  #56  
Old April 27th, 2009, 10:37 pm
silver ink pot's Avatar
silver ink pot  Female.gif silver ink pot is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 6046 days
Location: Shining Snape's Halo
Age: 59
Posts: 9,778
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
Just jumping in here to say something before I forget.

It has just occurred to me (which probably means everyone else got it straight away) that when Snape sees Harry's memories during the occulmency lessons he is already aquainted with Petunia.
So it makes me wonder about his question "To whom did the dog belong?"
Did he perhaps think it was Petunias dog?
And how did he feel seeing Harry's memories and knowing he was being badly treated by Petunia?
Did he feel some sort of empathy for Harry as Harry did for Snape when he saw SWM? And is this the reason why that at the end of OotP the Dursleys are challenged by people from the wizarding world regarding their treatment of Harry for the first time?
Did Snape relate to Dumbledore everything that he had seen (I personally was sure he had done even before DH)?
How do you think Snape felt on seeing those memories and did these emotions find expression when he related these scenes to Dumbledore?

I'm off to ponder.
Yes to all of the above!

Snape had to know that Petunia was Harry's guardian, and we sort of know Snape's view of dogs/werewolves/canines of any sort. So I do think he was trying to be sympathetic, but also curious about why Petunia's family would leave a very young Harry up a tree all day at the mercy of a vicious dog.

I believe he told Dumbledore what he saw, and it made them both angry. That's why Lupin, Moody, and Tonks went after Vernon and Petunia at the train station in OotP, and why Dumbledore was still so angry at the beginning of HBP.

I think Snape may have wanted to go talk to Petunia himself, but he really couldn't due to the risk of Voldemort seeing a memory of it in his mind.


__________________


"It may have escaped your notice, but life isn't fair."
~ Severus Snape, OotP movie


Severus Snape ~ Bloomsbury Books Favorite HP Character

Severmore ~ NEW Harry Potter Network ~ LJ Dungeon
  #57  
Old April 27th, 2009, 10:53 pm
Annielogic's Avatar
Annielogic  Female.gif Annielogic is offline
P.A. to Lucius Malfoy
 
Joined: 4571 days
Location: Studying in a library
Posts: 996
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver ink pot View Post

I believe he told Dumbledore what he saw, and it made them both angry. That's why Lupin, Moody, and Tonks went after Vernon and Petunia at the train station in OotP, and why Dumbledore was still so angry at the beginning of HBP.
It's certainly an interesting coincidence/timing that the Order confronted the Dursleys and the end of OotP and Dumbledore at the beginning of HBP, all after the Occulmency lessons. Yet, Dumbledore did nothing before that, not even check on him. Harry's original Hogwarts letter was addressed to him in the cupboard under the stairs and in CoS, Arthur Weasley mentioned Dumbledore likely knowing Harry was at The Burrow when their Hogwarts letters were sent there. Surely, Hagrid would have said something to Dumbeldore too.

I do wonder if Snape said something to Dumbledore as well, perhaps during the time he explained his reason for stopping the lessons.



Last edited by Annielogic; April 27th, 2009 at 10:57 pm.
  #58  
Old April 28th, 2009, 1:04 am
CathyWeasley's Avatar
CathyWeasley  Female.gif CathyWeasley is offline
Assistant to Professor Snape
 
Joined: 5275 days
Location: ...erm...
Age: 54
Posts: 2,455
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwb
I think if that were true, he would not have continued to get pleasure out of abusing the child himself - as he did shortly thereafter when he broke his flask and gave him a zero - smirking. To me it seemed as if he was in sympathy with the Dursleys, limited only by his dislike of Petunia.
I don't follow this logic at all. There are plenty of occasions when someone can bully a particular individual but become incensed when someone else bully's them, so I do not see that Snape's continuing pleasure at being nasty to Harry means he felt pleasure at seeing Harry abused by the Dursleys

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwb
my interpretation of Snape does not change, neither in that scene, nor from scene to scene, allowing him to be Mr. wonderful on page 54 and Mr. horrible on page 63. I just can't interpret a character that way because that is not normal, that is schizophrenic to me. Also it seems rather pointless because even if he felt sympathy for a moment when hearing it - what did he do to show this? What changed? Next we saw him he was behaving in a negative manner to Harry yet again, imo.
It is not schizophrenic to be Mr. wonderful on page 54 and Mr Horrible on page 63 - it is perfectly normal. All people are sometimes wonderful and other times horrible. This is a theme that runs through the books. People cannot be divided into "good" and "bad" and to use such labels in real life is very harmful, and to use them when discussing HP is to do a great disservice to Jo Rowling. I have no problem with Severus feeling empathetic with Harry when he sees his memories, but also feeling annoyed or angry because Harry has not practised. It is possible to feel more than one emotion for a single person at the same time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SIP
I think Snape may have wanted to go talk to Petunia himself, but he really couldn't due to the risk of Voldemort seeing a memory of it in his mind.
Now that is a scene I'd really like to see!


__________________




Even if everyone hates him for it, that's the sacrifice he's making. He's not being the hero. He's being something more.

He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.


Pottermore name: FlightMoonstone199

On CoS I'm in On Pottermore I'm in Maple and Unicorn, Thirteen and Three Quarter inches, Pliant

My Fanfic - Snape's Happy Ending


Avatar by Ben when he was 5- he's now 13!
  #59  
Old April 28th, 2009, 1:43 am
wickedwickedboy's Avatar
wickedwickedboy  Undisclosed.gif wickedwickedboy is offline
Lycanthrope
 
Joined: 5180 days
Location: Running with the Werewolves
Posts: 9,427
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
I don't follow this logic at all. There are plenty of occasions when someone can bully a particular individual but become incensed when someone else bully's them, so I do not see that Snape's continuing pleasure at being nasty to Harry means he felt pleasure at seeing Harry abused by the Dursleys
But that was not Snape's M.O. imo. He got pleasure out of whispering to Draco during the duel and watching him issue a Snake at Harry, imo. It wasn't merely pleasure at his own antics, imo.

Quote:
This is a theme that runs through the books. People cannot be divided into "good" and "bad" and to use such labels in real life is very harmful, and to use them when discussing HP is to do a great disservice to Jo Rowling.
I respect your view, but I can only call um as I see him. I never saw "sympathetic Snape" when it came to children, especially Harry. So I don't impute it on him when canon doesn't suggest whether he felt it or not. I just stick with the character as he's always been portrayed, finding pleasure when he or others slam dunk Harry, imo. To me, one of Snape's biggest character flaws was his vindictiveness - it seemed to know no bounds. I see Snape as feeling like Harry was getting what he deserved whenever anything negative happened to him. Harry was on bedrest and Snape was screaming at him like the dickens in the hospital room in POA - to me, Snape was simply not portrayed as a sympathetic character.


__________________
  #60  
Old April 28th, 2009, 2:13 am
ignisia's Avatar
ignisia  Female.gif ignisia is offline
Leader of the GLITTELUTION
 
Joined: 5015 days
Location: Sitting in a Tin Can
Age: 31
Posts: 4,418
Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis v.11

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
So it makes me wonder about his question "To whom did the dog belong?"
Did he perhaps think it was Petunias dog?
I think so. He doesn't know about Marge, and on seeing the unpleasant dog, he'd probably associate it with his unpleasant memories of Petunia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
And how did he feel seeing Harry's memories and knowing he was being badly treated by Petunia?
As Pearl said, we are not exactly told this. Snape is having a long one-on-one session with Harry, and so must be doubly careful in hiding his emotions, lest Voldemort peek into either of their minds.

I would think he'd be appalled that Petunia would do such a thing, but in hindsight would believe it not too surprising. Despite the fact that his overall views on Muggles changed, I don't think his opinion of Petunia changed one jot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
Did he feel some sort of empathy for Harry as Harry did for Snape when he saw SWM?
Probably. There are a lot of similarities between Harry's childhood and his own, so he could probably relate on some level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
And is this the reason why that at the end of OotP the Dursleys are challenged by people from the wizarding world regarding their treatment of Harry for the first time?
I think it's very likely. The Dursleys have been abusing Harry for years, and it just happens to be this year that the Order does this? Can't be coincidence. While I doubt Severus would suggest the meeting, his information and possible expressions of indignation could have given Dumbledore the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
Did Snape relate to Dumbledore everything that he had seen (I personally was sure he had done even before DH)?
Had to have. Not only is he totally loyal to the man, but Dumbledore seems to have some knowledge of how the lessons went.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
and did these emotions find expression when he related these scenes to Dumbledore?
It's possible. Dumbledore's one of the lucky few he reveals much of himself to.


__________________
I am incapable of hating someone who, instead of using a spell to guard the Sorcerer's Stone, uses a logic puzzle.
I'm sorry.



VIVA LA GLITTELUTION
Looking for a home away from home?
Hogsmeade ~ Apparate.me
Avatar by SIP
 
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Forum Archives > Post DH References

Bookmarks

Tags
character analysis, severus snape


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:05 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.