Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > The Writing on the Wall > Fiction > Science Fiction & Fantasy

His Dark Materials



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #341  
Old July 15th, 2008, 2:00 pm
AndromedaBlack1  Female.gif AndromedaBlack1 is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4305 days
Age: 27
Posts: 21
Re: His Dark Materials

I'm reading the first one now, because the movie stars Nicole Kidman (a truly fantastic actress). I am enjoying it so far, but I just haven't had time to sit down properly and read it.


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #342  
Old July 30th, 2008, 6:10 pm
Sacred_Memories's Avatar
Sacred_Memories  Male.gif Sacred_Memories is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4630 days
Location: Godric's Hollow
Age: 27
Posts: 985
Re: His Dark Materials

I read all three books this year and they were fantastic. Pullman created a very original and intriguing universe. Lyra and Will were very good protagonists, although I didn't like Lyra much; I liked Will. But my favorite character by far is Marisa Coulter. I love cruel beauties. At the end of the series, when her maternal instincts kicked in, she became great. I absolutely adored the scene when she manipulated Metatron.

Doesn't the scene where Marisa Coulter lies to Metatron remind you of the lie Narcissa said against Voldemort?

EDIT: However, Pullman had a rather poor grasp on handling his characters in the Amber Spyglass. When Marisa rambles on about how much she loves Lyra and how bad she is...I really didn't like that. She shouldn't be telling us everything about her personality. It's the readers job to decipher her character. The cheesy interaction with Asriel annoyed me so much.


__________________

~ A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world. ~

Last edited by Sacred_Memories; July 30th, 2008 at 6:14 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #343  
Old August 1st, 2008, 1:01 am
Flameow  Female.gif Flameow is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5639 days
Age: 28
Posts: 181
Re: His Dark Materials

^^^ Yeah, the whole romance bit between her and Asriel was really two-dimensional. I found it hard to believe that
Spoiler: show
they would suddenly decide to die together
after seeming to not care about the other for ages and making no effort to contact the other. I really don't know what to think of it, maybe it was intentional on the part of the author, to make a point about fleeting emotions making people irrational...and maybe it's supposed to sharply contrast how Lyra and Will put aside their love and emotions to do something rational and good for others.


Reply With Quote
  #344  
Old August 29th, 2008, 12:45 am
PhoenixLuna  Male.gif PhoenixLuna is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4444 days
Age: 28
Posts: 27
Re: His Dark Materials

I saw the movie, but I haven’t read the books yet. I thought the movie was alright.


Reply With Quote
  #345  
Old August 29th, 2008, 12:55 am
NumberEight  Male.gif NumberEight is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4200 days
Posts: 1,915
Re: His Dark Materials

I read the books months ago. I thought the third book dragged on a bit. It wasn't nearly as good as the first two.


Reply With Quote
  #346  
Old August 31st, 2008, 4:58 am
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

I read these when I was 10, in fifth class. I just loved them. The messages and atheistic responses throughout them is really wonderful, even if I don't invest in the belief myself. This only proves, to my mind, that these are great books, really and truly.

I won't spoil anything, but I re red the books recently and I finally see why the third book seems more weighty. I haven't the film yet, but I gather there are differences, and I'm not so sure that it would have brought justice to some of my favourite books.

Lyrs is one of my all time favourite heroines, and I genuinely think the twists, plot turns and characters are some of the most detailed I have seen in quite some time. The Magisterium is excellently laid out, and Iorek Byrnison quickly became my favourite character. That has never changed, though Lee Scoresby is also very very cool.

I absolutely love the quote from Milton's Paradise Lost at the beginning. I never fully understood when I was younger why it was there, but after re reading Dark Materials, and after reading Paradise Lost, I have to say that I really do see it.

I think the descriptions are perfect, and the old, parallel universe Oxford is really a great idea. The daemon idea is a great one too...

I think I need to go re read them again!!


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #347  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 1:32 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5745 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiricduck View Post
Lyrs is one of my all time favourite heroines, and I genuinely think the twists, plot turns and characters are some of the most detailed I have seen in quite some time.
I agree with you there. I liked Lyra's character a lot too - she was very strong, brave, and defiant in dealing with whatever situation she was dealt. I too liked Iorek Byrnison as one of my favorite characters (Ian McKellan does a great job with his voice in the movie). The only thing that was disappointing in this series was the ending.
Spoiler: show
I didn't like how Lyra loses her talent to read the Alethiometer all of a sudden, but even more than that, I didn't like how Will and Lyra couldn't be together. But I suppose not everything can turn out happy all the time.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #348  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 2:12 am
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

RemusLupinFan, I couldn't agree more. I felt so let down in one way, but in another, what you've mentioned really does fit the idea that sometimes a sacrifice has to be made to make life better for other people. So I understand it, even though it was actually hard to deal with.

*sniffle*

On the upside, I now have to see that film. Ian McKellen voices my favourite character! Thank you for telling me that! I actually didn't know! And now I am way excited about seeing it! I heard that Lee Scoresby is supposed to steal the show. Is that true?

I found special editions of the books last Christmas (I think, or maybe the one before), and there's loads of added extras in the last few pages. It looks great. Glad I invested the money!


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #349  
Old September 3rd, 2008, 9:50 pm
Black_XY390  Female.gif Black_XY390 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5177 days
Location: In a raincloud
Age: 28
Posts: 348
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiricduck View Post
RemusLupinFan, I couldn't agree more. I felt so let down in one way, but in another, what you've mentioned really does fit the idea that sometimes a sacrifice has to be made to make life better for other people. So I understand it, even though it was actually hard to deal with.

*sniffle*

On the upside, I now have to see that film. Ian McKellen voices my favourite character! Thank you for telling me that! I actually didn't know! And now I am way excited about seeing it! I heard that Lee Scoresby is supposed to steal the show. Is that true?

I found special editions of the books last Christmas (I think, or maybe the one before), and there's loads of added extras in the last few pages. It looks great. Glad I invested the money!
You could say that yes. As said in a very fun spoof here

Quote:
Lee Scoresby is the awesome cowboy grandpa you never even knew you always wanted. His daemon Hester is 100% win.


__________________
/|\
/( | )\
----+----
ON THE QUEST


Watch Chuck ~ = ~ Chat Chuck ~ = ~ Support Chuck
Harry Potter Caption Contest
: The best fanfiction out there.
in - - I grudgingly trust Severus Snape. ~ ~ ~ ~ Black Σφ390
Reply With Quote
  #350  
Old September 3rd, 2008, 11:03 pm
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_XY390 View Post
You could say that yes.
Nice! I have to say I enjoyed that! I have definitely been talked into getting this film and watching to see who I recognise and what I think overall! I think though, that the books will still impress me more. Is that a logical argument? I just think that kind of cleverness can't always come across on film.


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #351  
Old September 4th, 2008, 12:59 am
Voldemorts8thHorcrux's Avatar
Voldemorts8thHorcrux  Female.gif Voldemorts8thHorcrux is offline
Secret Keeper
 
Joined: 5049 days
Location: just took over world,on throne
Age: 25
Posts: 5,710
Re: His Dark Materials

I totally agree RemusLupinFan!!! It was so sad about Lyra and Will. It was kind of cute with the ending though, because it kind of meant that they were all grown up, except for love. I actually predicted that Lyra wouldn't be able to read the alethiometer, I thought she wouldn't because you had to be a child to do it or something of that nature.


__________________


Official Member of the Jacq Triumvirate

My Deviantart Account

Voldemort Feels Pretty, My animated music video for "I feel Pretty" Featuring LORD VOLDEMORT!

My original story: Teeter Totter (Has absolutely nothing to do with playgrounds)


Reply With Quote
  #352  
Old September 4th, 2008, 2:33 am
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
I totally agree RemusLupinFan!!! It was so sad about Lyra and Will. It was kind of cute with the ending though, because it kind of meant that they were all grown up, except for love. I actually predicted that Lyra wouldn't be able to read the alethiometer, I thought she wouldn't because you had to be a child to do it or something of that nature.
That was a twist I actually loved, for sure. I wasn't exactly expecting it, but I did like what it stood for, most definitely. I think the books are an absolute pleasure to read. People sometimes ask me why read them, or to give a synopsis. And I'm always like "I can't. I just... can't." Because at the end of the day, how you form a synopsis around a story with talking bears, an external soul like creature, Dust, atheism and the neverending beauty of a childhood long lost but never forgotten. How do you explain the Magisterium? The angels? Mary Malone? A Texan balloonist? And the gyptians?

I mean, where do you even begin? How do you possibly tell someone about a trilogy of books based around a tomboy at the centre of an angels-vs- Authority war?

I'm getting excited and verbose. Apologies.


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #353  
Old September 4th, 2008, 2:56 am
Voldemorts8thHorcrux's Avatar
Voldemorts8thHorcrux  Female.gif Voldemorts8thHorcrux is offline
Secret Keeper
 
Joined: 5049 days
Location: just took over world,on throne
Age: 25
Posts: 5,710
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiricduck View Post
That was a twist I actually loved, for sure. I wasn't exactly expecting it, but I did like what it stood for, most definitely. I think the books are an absolute pleasure to read. People sometimes ask me why read them, or to give a synopsis. And I'm always like "I can't. I just... can't." Because at the end of the day, how you form a synopsis around a story with talking bears, an external soul like creature, Dust, atheism and the neverending beauty of a childhood long lost but never forgotten. How do you explain the Magisterium? The angels? Mary Malone? A Texan balloonist? And the gyptians?

I mean, where do you even begin? How do you possibly tell someone about a trilogy of books based around a tomboy at the centre of an angels-vs- Authority war?

I'm getting excited and verbose. Apologies.
right there we have a basic synopsis . but if you really cut down some books into the very basic words, you'd probably get even less. HP isn't a good example, but some books are pretty simple when you really think about it. His Dark Materials are relatively complex and when i get the time i'll probably reread them (i don't think my mom would like it if i bought three books in one run....especially since i'm saving up my mom pestering until brisingr comes out )


__________________


Official Member of the Jacq Triumvirate

My Deviantart Account

Voldemort Feels Pretty, My animated music video for "I feel Pretty" Featuring LORD VOLDEMORT!

My original story: Teeter Totter (Has absolutely nothing to do with playgrounds)


Reply With Quote
  #354  
Old September 4th, 2008, 3:21 am
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
right there we have a basic synopsis . but if you really cut down some books into the very basic words, you'd probably get even less. HP isn't a good example, but some books are pretty simple when you really think about it. His Dark Materials are relatively complex and when i get the time i'll probably reread them (i don't think my mom would like it if i bought three books in one run....especially since i'm saving up my mom pestering until brisingr comes out )
I know the feeling! I love His Dark Materials because, and I hate to analyze, especially given my complaints regarding just this is another thread, but the books sort of act as an anti Paradise Lost. You know the way the quote from Paradise Lost is a feature of the trilogy? Well, in Paradise Lost, humanity's quest for knowledge is condemned. In Pullman's case, he uses the quote to instigate the opposite, and he commends our continual quest for wisdom. I only noticed it quite recently, but ever since I've been longing to go back and read them again.

Glad you liked my synopsis! It would be a great selling point!


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #355  
Old September 4th, 2008, 3:13 pm
Mad_Druid's Avatar
Mad_Druid  Female.gif Mad_Druid is offline
Too MAGENTA for a UT
 
Joined: 5461 days
Location: Oz
Posts: 2,422
Re: His Dark Materials

What does everyone think that Pan's final form of the pine marten represents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_XY390
You could say that yes. As said in a very fun spoof here


__________________
In the slip of a bolt, there's a tiny revolt
the seeds of a war in the creak of a floorboard
a storm can begin, with the flap of a wing
the tiniest mite packs the mightiest sting.

avatar by the Moriath!bear

Last edited by Mad_Druid; September 4th, 2008 at 3:16 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #356  
Old September 4th, 2008, 9:43 pm
Voldemorts8thHorcrux's Avatar
Voldemorts8thHorcrux  Female.gif Voldemorts8thHorcrux is offline
Secret Keeper
 
Joined: 5049 days
Location: just took over world,on throne
Age: 25
Posts: 5,710
Re: His Dark Materials

I'm not even sure what a pine marten is, i keep forgetting to wikipedia or google it


__________________


Official Member of the Jacq Triumvirate

My Deviantart Account

Voldemort Feels Pretty, My animated music video for "I feel Pretty" Featuring LORD VOLDEMORT!

My original story: Teeter Totter (Has absolutely nothing to do with playgrounds)


Reply With Quote
  #357  
Old September 4th, 2008, 10:26 pm
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5745 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voldemorts8thHorcrux View Post
I'm not even sure what a pine marten is, i keep forgetting to wikipedia or google it
Here's some of what the wikipedia article says about pine martens:
wikiTheir habitats are usually well-wooded areas. European Pine Martens usually make their own dens in hollow trees or scrub-covered fields. Martens are the only mustelids with semi-retractable claws. This enables them to lead more arboreal lifestyles, such as climbing or running on tree branches, although they are also relatively quick runners on the ground. They are mainly active at night and dusk. They have small rounded, highly sensitive ears and sharp teeth for eating small mammals, birds, insects, frogs, and carrion. They have also been known to eat berries, bird's eggs, and honey.
To tell you the truth, I'm really not quite sure what this animal tells us about Lyra's inner personality.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #358  
Old September 4th, 2008, 10:45 pm
Black_XY390  Female.gif Black_XY390 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 5177 days
Location: In a raincloud
Age: 28
Posts: 348
Re: His Dark Materials



I found a picture.

I went to The Museum of Natural History in Washington DC this summer and I got really excited because the have a pine martin in the stuffed animal exhibit. It looks a lot like a ferret. It probably has a lot of the same hunting habits as a ferret too. Sneakiness and such.


__________________
/|\
/( | )\
----+----
ON THE QUEST


Watch Chuck ~ = ~ Chat Chuck ~ = ~ Support Chuck
Harry Potter Caption Contest
: The best fanfiction out there.
in - - I grudgingly trust Severus Snape. ~ ~ ~ ~ Black Σφ390

Last edited by Black_XY390; September 4th, 2008 at 10:49 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #359  
Old September 4th, 2008, 11:18 pm
vampiricduck's Avatar
vampiricduck  Female.gif vampiricduck is offline
Qvack...
 
Joined: 5322 days
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 29
Posts: 3,271
Re: His Dark Materials

Yeah, it's really really tough to see what the pine marten form stands for. The colour, reddish-gold is fantastically described. I love the idea that it stands for her individuality and the way she stands out, as well as her overall strength and beauty. Maybe? But that's just the colour.

The article says that they're more active at night and very territorial (which fits- It is, after all, "Lyra's Oxford") but other than that I'm not seeing a whole lot. Would it have anything to do with the fact that Pantalaimon turns to the Pine Marten permanently when Will touches him?
And what about Will? Kirjava is, in the end of the trilogy, a subtly coloured cat. Of course, the "subtle" idea might come from the knife, but...

It's a tough question. Argh!


__________________

THE DUCK.

Avatar comes from bluebison.net
Reply With Quote
  #360  
Old September 4th, 2008, 11:27 pm
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5745 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: His Dark Materials

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiricduck View Post
Would it have anything to do with the fact that Pantalaimon turns to the Pine Marten permanently when Will touches him?
I don't think it's solely because Will touches him, because I think the final form of a person's daemon always shows what that person is like inside. He must have changed into that form, knowing he was going to settle soon. Then when Will touched him, I think that clinched it, and Pan knew he wasn't going to change again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vampiricduck View Post
Kirjava is, in the end of the trilogy, a subtly coloured cat. Of course, the "subtle" idea might come from the knife, but...
Kirjava fits Will to a T, I believe. He is a master of subtlety, since he is excellent at deflecting people's attention and making himself unnoticable and uninteresting when he needs to.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore

Last edited by RemusLupinFan; September 4th, 2008 at 11:30 pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > The Writing on the Wall > Fiction > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:25 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright its respective owners.