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Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3



 
 
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  #241  
Old December 10th, 2010, 5:46 am
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by SusanBones View Post
I disagree that he had a limited experience with the wizarding world. On the contrary, he knew a lot about it before he went to Hogwarts, in my opinion. We know this from his memories of the time he spent with Lily before he went to Hogwarts. He knew all about Dementors and what kinds of crimes got you sent to Azkaban, for example. In fact, I believe that they spent hours discussing the wizarding world. And from the words he spoke to Petunia, and the way he talked to Lily about Petunia, he was prejudiced before he got to Slytherin House, in my opinion.

We really don't know if she encouraged him or not. Her experiences at Hogwarts may have been very positive and enjoyable. Or Severus may have come from a family like the Black's, with a long history of being in Slytherin House. No matter where it came from, he had the desire to be in that house. And from what I read in the books about the adult Snape, he took a lot of pride in Slytherin House and their successes. Harry included him as one of the lost boys who finally found a home at Hogwarts. And that home was in Slytherin.


I think he did this out of kindness. He didn't want to hurt her feelings or worry her by telling her that some people might think that she isn't as good as a pureblood would be. I think he knew that she could encounter this kind of prejudice at Hogwarts. And I think he desperately wanted her to continue to be his friend. So, of course he would want her in the same house as he was in. Don't best friends always try to talk each other into going everyplace together?
I think Snape knew only what his mother told him. I suspect she shared stories about Hogwarts and the wizarding world with Snape because it was what she could give him; the bond that they shared. The one thing he had that she could point to that could make him feel better about himself and their circumstances. I doubt he knew much if anything about the politics. I'm sure his mother tried to paint a pretty picture for him, while still using stories about dementors and Azkaban as warnings.

As to whether he knew that muggleborns were looked down on by some wizards, we have no evidence that prior to Hogwarts, Snape was aware of the blood prejudice some wizards held. Magic was what made him special. It was what made Lily special.

If he knew that Lily would be treated badly in Slytherin because she was a muggleborn, I sincerely doubt he would have tried to convince her to be in Slytherin. If he knew bout Slytherin's reputation, he more likely, if being in the same house was that important to him, would have tried to convince her that they should try to go to some other house together - probably Ravenclaw since he was interested in being brainy, not brawny. The fact that he didn't tells me he did not know very much about the various houses, or about blood prejudice being associated with Slytherin.

I suspect that all he knew was which house his mother had been in (assumption she was in Slytherin). He may have just decided on his own, with no real knowledge or understanding, that if his mother had been a Slytherin and had married a muggle, that Lily would not have any problem being in Slytherin.

Snape did find a home in Slytherin. He seems to have been accepted there. I don't think that indicates that he knew what he was getting into prior to his sorting.


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  #242  
Old December 10th, 2010, 9:26 am
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by LyraLovegood View Post
I think he did, though. I think the reason he hesitated when Lily first asked him if it mattered, her being Muggleborn, was that it did matter to him, but he didn't want her to know it.
If it did matter to him, I don't think he would have been friends with Lily in the first place and then continued that friendship once he started Hogwarts and found himself and Lily in rival Houses. But, I think though, that he may have known that among certain pockets of the WW, Muggleborns are not treated well. That information could have come from his mother, but young Severus was certainly not influenced by it, because after this memory he continues to be Lily's friend and is devastated when she breaks off her friendship to him imo.

Knowing information that Muggleborns may not be treated properly and believing that Muggleborns should not be treated in the same manner as Pureblood wizards are IMO two different things. I think Snape knew the former; I don't think he much believed in the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver View Post
I think Snape knew only what his mother told him. I suspect she shared stories about Hogwarts and the wizarding world with Snape because it was what she could give him; the bond that they shared.
I think this could have very well happened. Or Snape could have read books about Hogwarts and the WW as well.

===============
I think Snape knew quite a bit about the WW; perhaps that was his magical world too; the escape from his father and the life he led before Hogwarts. Once he started Hogwarts, Harry to desperate to leave the Dursleys to a world where he was accepted and had friends and was not called a freak or abused. I think Hogwarts was the world where Snape thought he would find acceptance; a place where he could put behind his home life, thinking of which, made his eyes distant and his hands shred leaves. In short I think he believed Hogwarts was a place where he would be happy.


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  #243  
Old December 10th, 2010, 12:18 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
If it did matter to him, I don't think he would have been friends with Lily in the first place and then continued that friendship once he started Hogwarts and found himself and Lily in rival Houses. But, I think though, that he may have known that among certain pockets of the WW, Muggleborns are not treated well. That information could have come from his mother, but young Severus was certainly not influenced by it, because after this memory he continues to be Lily's friend and is devastated when she breaks off her friendship to him imo.

Knowing information that Muggleborns may not be treated properly and believing that Muggleborns should not be treated in the same manner as Pureblood wizards are IMO two different things. I think Snape knew the former; I don't think he much believed in the latter.



I think this could have very well happened. Or Snape could have read books about Hogwarts and the WW as well.

===============
I think Snape knew quite a bit about the WW; perhaps that was his magical world too; the escape from his father and the life he led before Hogwarts. Once he started Hogwarts, Harry to desperate to leave the Dursleys to a world where he was accepted and had friends and was not called a freak or abused. I think Hogwarts was the world where Snape thought he would find acceptance; a place where he could put behind his home life, thinking of which, made his eyes distant and his hands shred leaves. In short I think he believed Hogwarts was a place where he would be happy.
I think some part of Snape wanted to be friends with Lily because she was Lily. I think it was always personal with Snape as far as Lily was concerned. This is not a bad thing, that he wanted to be friends with as kind and as unjudgemental a child as Lily was. IMO Lily was always the best part of Snape's life and he wanted her with a fierce desperation, first as the lonely child we see in the park and later as the misguided young boy in the school memories. It is clear that Snape's memories of Lily are the only thing he ever takes joy in and I suppose the memory of taking that Prophecy to Voldemort which effectively condemned her to death must have tortured him. Perhaps he wished that he had been more honest with her about the bigotry that existed in the WW world and especially in Slytherin House. I don't think he would have known how bad it was or how much it would appeal to him as he grew up.


  #244  
Old December 10th, 2010, 1:47 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

I think if Snape had been sorted into any other house he would have found some aspect of that house to be attracted to.

Snape could fly well enough and knew Quiddich well enough to referee a game. If he had been in Gryffindor, maybe he would have seen Quiddich as the way to be accepted. If he had been in Ravenclaw, perhaps he would have led a study group. If he had been in Hufflepuff, he might have been the one who organized the parties after another embarrassing loss of the school cup.

Who knows? I think it was a need to be accepted by those around him that attracted Snape, not the particular politics of Slytherin. He came to school as a disadvantaged child in search of some level of control (power) over his own life. That's how he ended up in Slytherin, with perhaps a dose of "Not Gryffindor, not Gryffindor" at the sorting.


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  #245  
Old December 10th, 2010, 2:40 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliza101
Every Dark Wizard but one came out of Slytherin House. That means that something about the psychological make up of some Slytherin found Voldemort's propaganda appealing. It cannot be ignored, nor explained away but it does have to be borne in mind that not all Slytherin joined Voldemort. But when 99.99% of as evil an organisation as the Death Eaters come from the same pool of the population that unfortunately says something about that pool. I myself think that the preoccupation of Slytherin House with the fallacy of Blood Status contributed. This created an atmosphere of bigotry and it was something that obviously appealed to Snape
As someone else has said it's isn't true that all Dark Wizards bar one came from Slytherin. While Ron says so in book 1 it says in a later book (can't remember which one) mthat it has produced more Dark Wizards than any other house. I don't find this surprising seeing as this is the house for people who are ambitious. I'm not saying that ambition is bad just that some people can be so ambitious that they will do anything to achieve their ends - as the Sorting Hat indeed said in one of his songs regarding Slytherin. SO the sort of "take over the world" Dark Wizard ie the ones that come to peoples notice are more likely to come from Slytherin as evil Slytherins will be Darkly ambitious rather than darkly intelligent or Darkly brave - somehow "darkly" doesn't go with any of the Hufflepuff traits. I would also point out that along with Shacklebolt and McGonagall Slughorn - head of Slytherin was one of the three fighting Voldemort in the great Hall in the final battle! So to sum up I don't buy the idea that SLytherin house is darker or more evil than the other houses, nor do I buy the idea that wanting to be in Slytherin indicates that someone is a bad person.

I'm not convinced that the bigotry appealed to Snape. I think that a child like Severus who has low self-esteem is going to be drawn to any group that sets itself up as being above others - in much the same way as Lupin is drawn to Sirius and James who as the Marauders consider themselves and are considered by others to be a bit above other wizards. In order to join the "elite" group in Sev's case though he had to adopt the bigotted ideals. His willingness to befriend Lily indicate that he at this point he is not prejudiced - and his post-Mudblood conversation seems to be saying "I know I say that but that's not what I mean in reality - especially when the reality is you." In other words the "any means" to achieve Snape's ends is the adoption of prejudice and bigotry.


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  #246  
Old December 10th, 2010, 3:48 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

I think Lily was the exception to the rule in Severus' mind, but that he believed Muggleborns were inferior because of his relationship with his father. I believe Lily was the exception because she had loads of magic.


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  #247  
Old December 10th, 2010, 3:49 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
As someone else has said it's isn't true that all Dark Wizards bar one came from Slytherin. While Ron says so in book 1 it says in a later book (can't remember which one) mthat it has produced more Dark Wizards than any other house. I don't find this surprising seeing as this is the house for people who are ambitious. I'm not saying that ambition is bad just that some people can be so ambitious that they will do anything to achieve their ends - as the Sorting Hat indeed said in one of his songs regarding Slytherin. SO the sort of "take over the world" Dark Wizard ie the ones that come to peoples notice are more likely to come from Slytherin as evil Slytherins will be Darkly ambitious rather than darkly intelligent or Darkly brave - somehow "darkly" doesn't go with any of the Hufflepuff traits. I would also point out that along with Shacklebolt and McGonagall Slughorn - head of Slytherin was one of the three fighting Voldemort in the great Hall in the final battle! So to sum up I don't buy the idea that SLytherin house is darker or more evil than the other houses, nor do I buy the idea that wanting to be in Slytherin indicates that someone is a bad person.

I'm not convinced that the bigotry appealed to Snape. I think that a child like Severus who has low self-esteem is going to be drawn to any group that sets itself up as being above others - in much the same way as Lupin is drawn to Sirius and James who as the Marauders consider themselves and are considered by others to be a bit above other wizards. In order to join the "elite" group in Sev's case though he had to adopt the bigotted ideals. His willingness to befriend Lily indicate that he at this point he is not prejudiced - and his post-Mudblood conversation seems to be saying "I know I say that but that's not what I mean in reality - especially when the reality is you." In other words the "any means" to achieve Snape's ends is the adoption of prejudice and bigotry.
I'm not certain bigotry appeals to anyone... I think the above is the case for almost anyone who joins up with a group. You don't have to adopt the ideals of a group, just weak enough to believe that you are better off being associated with murderers than not being associated with anyone.

My opinion is:

1. You(meaning anyone) will, ultimately, not be able to completely rationalize his placement in Slytherin with the fact that years later, he became someone who is brave. The houses are not the inverse of each other, thus people can "qualify" for more than one. Perhaps Snape "qualified" for Slytherin, in his ambitiousness, and Gryffindor, for his bravery, but because his mother was in Slytherin, the hat put him there. (Not because families haveto be but together, but because he was so influenced by his mother. For instance, Sirius didn't like his family, and thus was determined to not fall into their footsteps, thus his Gryffindor placement.)

2. I know it's a copout, but if he's not in Slytherin, there's no story here. Early in the books we are told that no non-Slytherin has ever gone bad. If Snape had been in Gryffindor, then he wouldn't have been able, according to the logic the book uses, to be bad. He also wouldn't, likely, have been head of slytherin house, or been extremely partial to the Slytherins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyraLovegood View Post
I think Lily was the exception to the rule in Severus' mind, but that he believed Muggleborns were inferior because of his relationship with his father. I believe Lily was the exception because she had loads of magic.
Could it be that, while he did not consider them inferior, he simply considered worthy of torment and discrimination since that's the way his mother taught him? Then, because lily was clearly not deserving of torment or discrimination, the rules didn't apply to him? Or, could it be that he just lashed out at practically everyone except the people who took him in, the slytherins? Calling someone "mudblood" is not evidence of prejudice, it's simply evidence that one is aware that the term is negative and hurtful.


  #248  
Old December 10th, 2010, 5:23 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
So to sum up I don't buy the idea that SLytherin house is darker or more evil than the other houses, nor do I buy the idea that wanting to be in Slytherin indicates that someone is a bad person.
I agree. There is a tendency for people who go bad to be in Slytherin because of the traits of that house, but I also have to give some credit to the dark wizards within that house that were recruiting for their cause, namely Voldemort and his cohorts. I find generalizing the Slytherin students as being evil or most likely to go bad as prejudiced as the DEs just in reverse.

Quote:
I'm not convinced that the bigotry appealed to Snape. I think that a child like Severus who has low self-esteem is going to be drawn to any group that sets itself up as being above others - in much the same way as Lupin is drawn to Sirius and James who as the Marauders consider themselves and are considered by others to be a bit above other wizards. In order to join the "elite" group in Sev's case though he had to adopt the bigotted ideals. His willingness to befriend Lily indicate that he at this point he is not prejudiced - and his post-Mudblood conversation seems to be saying "I know I say that but that's not what I mean in reality - especially when the reality is you." In other words the "any means" to achieve Snape's ends is the adoption of prejudice and bigotry.
I very much agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyraLovegood View Post
I think Lily was the exception to the rule in Severus' mind, but that he believed Muggleborns were inferior because of his relationship with his father. I believe Lily was the exception because she had loads of magic.
IMO, he saw Muggles as inferior due to his experiences with them and his low self esteem. He saw magic as something that made him special and gave him power over the people who made him feel powerless in other ways. Basically everyone who had magic was superior to Muggles and that included Lily. Whether he knew about the attitudes towards Muggleborns amongst some wizards IMO is up for debate. I don't think it's a given. I think he was considering whether being Muggleborn made people like her different and his conclusion was that it didn't because they had magic. He may have thought others in the magical world would think the same.


  #249  
Old December 10th, 2010, 5:37 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by boushh View Post
I find generalizing the Slytherin students as being evil or most likely to go bad as prejudiced as the DEs just in reverse.
I firmly disagree with this. As far as we know, only one non-Slytherin has ever gone bad. Saying Slytherin's are more likely to go bad is a simple observation, and is not a prejudice, IMO.


  #250  
Old December 10th, 2010, 5:45 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by CathyWeasley View Post
As someone else has said it's isn't true that all Dark Wizards bar one came from Slytherin. While Ron says so in book 1 it says in a later book (can't remember which one) mthat it has produced more Dark Wizards than any other house. I don't find this surprising seeing as this is the house for people who are ambitious. I'm not saying that ambition is bad just that some people can be so ambitious that they will do anything to achieve their ends - as the Sorting Hat indeed said in one of his songs regarding Slytherin. SO the sort of "take over the world" Dark Wizard ie the ones that come to peoples notice are more likely to come from Slytherin as evil Slytherins will be Darkly ambitious rather than darkly intelligent or Darkly brave - somehow "darkly" doesn't go with any of the Hufflepuff traits. I would also point out that along with Shacklebolt and McGonagall Slughorn - head of Slytherin was one of the three fighting Voldemort in the great Hall in the final battle! So to sum up I don't buy the idea that SLytherin house is darker or more evil than the other houses, nor do I buy the idea that wanting to be in Slytherin indicates that someone is a bad person.

I'm not convinced that the bigotry appealed to Snape. I think that a child like Severus who has low self-esteem is going to be drawn to any group that sets itself up as being above others - in much the same way as Lupin is drawn to Sirius and James who as the Marauders consider themselves and are considered by others to be a bit above other wizards. In order to join the "elite" group in Sev's case though he had to adopt the bigotted ideals. His willingness to befriend Lily indicate that he at this point he is not prejudiced - and his post-Mudblood conversation seems to be saying "I know I say that but that's not what I mean in reality - especially when the reality is you." In other words the "any means" to achieve Snape's ends is the adoption of prejudice and bigotry.
I ghave always understood that if something (no matter who states it) iis quoted in text, then that is canon unless it is directly contradicted. What is true is that every Death Eater who is named in the books is a Slytherin. So we can either believe the author when she states via Ron that Every DE but one came from Slytherin or we don't.
We also see Snape as a young boy with Lily. Two things stand out for me in the scene under the trees before Petunia shows up. One was his appearance and the confidence he displays,

Quote:
“It’s real for us,” said Snape. “Not for her. But we’ll get the letter, you and
me.”
“Really?” whispered Lily.
“Definitely,” said Snape, and even with his poorly cut hair and his odd
clothes, he struck an oddly impressive figure sprawled in front of her, brimful
of confidence in his destiny.
JK Rowling, Deathly Hallows
This for me is not the portrait of a child with self-esteem issues. He knows who he is and he knows what he is, and who and what he is is not someone to be underestimated.
The other is this one,

Quote:
“Does it make a difference, being Muggle-born?”
Snape hesitated. His black eyes, eager in the greenish gloom, moved over
the pale face, the dark red hair.
“No,” he said. “It doesn’t make any difference.”


There is a clear hesitation and during it Snape is concentrating hard on Lily's physical appearence. I was left with the impression that he was reassuring himself that nobody would judge Lily as second class because she was a Muggleborn witch, as she was so pretty and special. Snape hated his home life, that I think is plain, but I don't think he felt low self esteem because of his home life. I think he felt it was unworthy of him and he couldn't wait to shake it off. I also think that he always saw Lily as a special case. First she was a special case among the other children in their home town, then she was to be a special case amongst the Slytherin House children, but it didn't work out like that. The main reason for that is I think Lily, she did not as she grew up want to be Snape's special case, especially his special Muggleborn and never his special 'Mudblood'.


  #251  
Old December 10th, 2010, 5:52 pm
giftedkid527  Male.gif giftedkid527 is offline
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

Quote:
This for me is not the portrait of a child with self-esteem issues. He knows who he is and he knows what he is, and who and what he is is not someone to be underestimated.
Which bit of the quote leads you to believe in his self-esteem?

Quote:
I was left with the impression that he was reassuring himself that nobody would judge Lily as second class because she was a Muggleborn witch, as she was so pretty and special. Snape hated his home life, that I think is plain, but I don't think he felt low self esteem because of his home life.
What makes you think he wasn't lying, to cover up his prejudice against mudbloods?



Last edited by giftedkid527; December 10th, 2010 at 5:56 pm.
  #252  
Old December 10th, 2010, 6:24 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by giftedkid527 View Post
I firmly disagree with this. As far as we know, only one non-Slytherin has ever gone bad. Saying Slytherin's are more likely to go bad is a simple observation, and is not a prejudice, IMO.
You're right... Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Saying they are most likely to go bad isn't necessarily prejudiced, because as far as we know they have been the most likely to go bad. What I find prejudiced is the PoV amongst the good guys that Slytherins are the bad guys without getting to know them aside from the more outgoing ones. I would hate to be in Slytherin and have everyone assume something about me simply because of the way the DE wannabes behaved. As Voldemort said about Snape to Harry... "He does seem the type..." but the key word is "seem". The Slytherins may seem like bad guys to the others but that doesn't make it true about all of them. The DEs are the bad guys, not all of the Slytherins just because they are in Slytherin. That's why I think the good guys come off as if they are prejudging the Slytherins as much as the DEs prejudge Muggles and Muggleborns. I think a big message in the books is not to be prejudiced and that goes for the house prejudices as well. Harry learns this lesson and as an adult does not speak badly about Slytherin and instead says something good about Snape who is a Slytherin and names his son after him.


  #253  
Old December 10th, 2010, 6:34 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
... he may have known that among certain pockets of the WW, Muggleborns are not treated well.

Knowing information that Muggleborns may not be treated properly and believing that Muggleborns should not be treated in the same manner as Pureblood wizards are IMO two different things. I think Snape knew the former; I don't think he much believed in the latter.
I grew up in the US South in the 60's and 70's, and if I may, I can draw a parallel between the Muggleborn prejudice and racial prejudice in the US at the time. I can well remember that the spoken ideal was to treat African-Americans properly and with equality, while the actuality was quite different.

I saw this in my own family, but I wasn't infected with it. I always felt it was wrong, and couldn't understand why it was condoned. Based on my own experiences, I think I can project the same duality onto Severus. Being highly intelligent, he would have seen the contradiction between the states and known that the ideal was what was Right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LyraLovegood View Post
...he believed Muggleborns were inferior because of his relationship with his father.
This is an interesting point. If your daily information regarding Muggles comes from an example like Tobias Snape, then you're going to have some issues with people who come from strictly Muggle backgrounds. It may have been the modifying influence of his mother which kept Severus from completely buying into the whole Muggleborns are worthless philosophy, not to mention his experiences with Lily...

Quote:
Originally Posted by weaver View Post
I think it was a need to be accepted by those around him that attracted Snape, not the particular politics of Slytherin. He came to school as a disadvantaged child in search of some level of control (power) over his own life.
Yes. And here we have the ambition which, combined with his native intelligence and trust issues (what abused child won't have trust issues) put him firmly into Slytherin.

As a character, with his background and temperament, he could hardly have gone anywhere else.


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  #254  
Old December 10th, 2010, 6:50 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

I agree with suggestions upthread that Snape's reaction to Petunia's insult is not borne exclusively out of prejudice against Muggles, but largely out of experience with Muggles. The Malfoys are prejudiced. They don't know Muggles. They don't care to know Muggles. They have their preconceived notions of what Muggles are, and they engage in blood prejudice without any reference point.

Little Severus, on the other hand, is the child of a Muggle. He lives in a run-down Muggle neighborhood. He interacts with Muggles on a regular basis. And it is on the basis of that interaction that he has no interest in Muggles. That does not mean that 9-year-old Severus wants to enslave them. It appears to me that he simply wants to escape them - and, imo, with good cause, based on what we see of his experience with Muggles like his father and Petunia.

The Wizarding World in general thinks Muggles are inferior. That is not just a Slytherin thing. And I honestly don't find Snape's childhood comments about Muggles to be any more horrendous than Hagrid's (on how awful it is that Harry has to go off and live with the Muggles) or McGonnagall's (about how Muggles are not entirely stupid).


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  #255  
Old December 10th, 2010, 7:05 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by ccollinsmith View Post

Okay, back to Snape...

I agree with suggestions upthread that Snape's reaction to Petunia's insult is not borne exclusively out of prejudice against Muggles, but largely out of experience with Muggles. The Malfoys are prejudiced. They don't know Muggles. They don't care to know Muggles. They have their preconceived notions of what Muggles are, and they engage in blood prejudice without any reference point.
That is true, but if he assumes that all Muggles are like these other Muggles isn't that some form of prejudice? Of course, he's rather young at this point so that is to be taken into consideration as well.
Quote:
Little Severus, on the other hand, is the child of a Muggle. He lives in a run-down Muggle neighborhood. He interacts with Muggles on a regular basis. And it is on the basis of that interaction that he has no interest in Muggles. That does not mean that 9-year-old Severus wants to enslave them. It appears to me that he simply wants to escape them - and, imo, with good cause, based on what we see of his experience with Muggles like his father and Petunia.
I agree with this, but also would say that he has magic gives him a sense of specialness. He is special and they are not. I agree though, it isn't like he exhibits a notion of enslaving or harming Muggles. He just wants to move on to better things, which to him is the WW. Some may look at his comments to Petunia and the branch thing as wishing Muggles harm, but I don't think so. The latter IMO is accidental magic much like Harry's in the earlier books, and his dismissive attitude towards Petunia is more reactionary towards his experiences with her and his lack of any interest in Muggles than wanting true harm to come to her. He's more along the lines of "Who cares about her and Muggles? We're Wizards and going to this great place."

Quote:
The Wizarding World in general thinks Muggles are inferior. That is not just a Slytherin thing. And I honestly don't find Snape's childhood comments about Muggles to be any more horrendous than Hagrid's (on how awful it is that Harry has to go off and live with the Muggles) or McGonnagall's (about how Muggles are not entirely stupid).
This is very true too. I think it's clear that the attitude of say Mr. Weasley is uncommon and frowned upon by many in the WW.


  #256  
Old December 10th, 2010, 7:10 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

I know these have already been discussed, but since I am relatively new to the boards I wanted to step in and answer them.

Do you believe that Snape's soul was still intact after he had killed Dumbledore?
I think so. I suppose it depends on what your definition of murder is, but there is no malice behind Snape's actions. It was a death arranged for and desired by the victim.

Do you think Snape would have moved on if Lily had not died? Would he have turned to the good side in that case?
Reason 1,827 why I love these forums! I have honestly NEVER considered what would have happened to Snape if Lily hadn't died. I don't think he would have moved on. Lily seemed to be about the only thing in his life that brought him real joy. His magical abilities and position as a Death Eater certainly made him feel important, but I don't think it brought him joy. That said, I don't think his love for Lily when she was married to another man would be enough to 'cos him to defect from the Death Eaters. They were, for all intensive purposes, all we know that he had in his life. He seems like the kind of man who would take solace in his position with him in the absence of what he really wanted

How do the revelations of DH impact your view of Snape's treatment of Harry and Neville throughout the series?
To me it's actually his treatment of Hermione that is the most cruel! As a teacher myself I find it hard to comprehend how the students did not ever approach the headmaster about his hurtful and damaging comments. I suppose it was "character building", but that still does not justify verbal abuse. I do think that he had to play his part well and to maintain favor with the Dark Lord and his fellow Death Eaters (Crabbe, Goyle, Malfoy) he had to play that part. Taking away points is one thing, but some of his comments are really a bit much. And I love Severus to death!

What do you think about Snape's relationship with Dumbledore? Did they become friends or was Dumbledore a substitute father figure for him?
I never saw Dumbledore as a father figure, merely a man Severus held in tremendous respect. I think Dumbledore gave Snape "free rein" in his classroom because he knew even in the classroom Snape was playing his part, which I don't necessarily agree with. I think that as the headmaster of a school in charge of the well being of children, Dumbledore let Snape get away with an awful lot. Being snarky and sarcastic is one thing, but he takes it to a whole other level of cruelty (Hermione's teeth comment comes to mind). If there were more of a father-son relationship here I see Dumbledore stepping in and saying something to Snape. However, if none of the students ever complained to Dumbledore then he has no idea Snape is being as cruel as he is. I see this as a problem in the Dumbledore-Snape relationship because I get the idea that Dumbledore is really the only person to whom he is accountable.

Do you agree with the author's take on Snape's character as revealed in interviews?
It seems to change in every interview I read! But everything she has said so far I agree with. He's a bully, he's cruel, he's petty, he's childish at times, but he loves deeply. And that to me is the most important element of his character.

Which elements do you think make Snape the most controversial character of the series?
His motivations! What motivated him to act the way that he did. Was it all selfishness? Was he truly repentant about what he did? Or was he just upset 'cos he lost the only thing in his life he cared about? Did he ever grow to care for Harry? Was he really just acting the whole time?

If you had to summarize Snape's character to someone who had never read the books what would you tell them?
He is a truly complex man who loved deeply, made some terrible decisions in his life, and spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it.


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  #257  
Old December 10th, 2010, 7:36 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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You're right... Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Saying they are most likely to go bad isn't necessarily prejudiced, because as far as we know they have been the most likely to go bad. What I find prejudiced is the PoV amongst the good guys that Slytherins are the bad guys without getting to know them aside from the more outgoing ones. I would hate to be in Slytherin and have everyone assume something about me simply because of the way the DE wannabes behaved. As Voldemort said about Snape to Harry... "He does seem the type..." but the key word is "seem". The Slytherins may seem like bad guys to the others but that doesn't make it true about all of them. The DEs are the bad guys, not all of the Slytherins just because they are in Slytherin. That's why I think the good guys come off as if they are prejudging the Slytherins as much as the DEs prejudge Muggles and Muggleborns. I think a big message in the books is not to be prejudiced and that goes for the house prejudices as well. Harry learns this lesson and as an adult does not speak badly about Slytherin and instead says something good about Snape who is a Slytherin and names his son after him.
To be fair to The Good Guys, Slytherin House is an entity in and of itself that has group ideals. After Voldemort and the first war, the House that has Purebloodism as one of its precepts is bound to be viewed with suspicion, in my opinion, and rightly so. If Slytherins don't want to be seen that way, it might be up to them to change the image of their House. Snape was Head of House, and could have worked towards that. If the children of Slytherin House are being damaged by the House's reputation, it would be a good idea to work on that, not perpetuate it.


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  #258  
Old December 10th, 2010, 8:24 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

To be a Slytherin, according to the Hat, you do not need to believe Purebloods are superior. You need to be one, which is not the same thing at all. (You can also, quite evidently, not be one, if you are well-suited for some other reasons).


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  #259  
Old December 10th, 2010, 8:31 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Originally Posted by OldMotherCrow View Post
To be fair to The Good Guys, Slytherin House is an entity in and of itself that has group ideals. After Voldemort and the first war, the House that has Purebloodism as one of its precepts is bound to be viewed with suspicion, in my opinion, and rightly so. If Slytherins don't want to be seen that way, it might be up to them to change the image of their House. Snape was Head of House, and could have worked towards that. If the children of Slytherin House are being damaged by the House's reputation, it would be a good idea to work on that, not perpetuate it.
Which Good Guys? Snape, though a Slytherin, is one of the Good Guys. Even Harry recognizes that in the end.

As for changing the image of the House... in an idea world, yes. But I don't imagine that Lord Voldemort would want Slytherin's image to change, and Snape had to appear to be a good Death Eater.


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Last edited by ccollinsmith; December 10th, 2010 at 8:36 pm.
  #260  
Old December 10th, 2010, 8:50 pm
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Re: Severus Snape: Character Analysis Reboot v.3

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Which Good Guys? Snape, though a Slytherin, is one of the Good Guys. Even Harry recognizes that in the end.
Boushh picked the terminology. I was responding to that post.

Quote:
As for changing the image of the House... in an idea world, yes. But I don't imagine that Lord Voldemort would want Slytherin's image to change, and Snape had to appear to be a good Death Eater.
What is gained needs to be measured against what is lost. I don't know that it was a good idea to put someone who needed to appear to be a good Death Eater at the helm of Slytherin, and I also question the need for Snape to have to appear as a good Death Eater when he is supposed to be undercover and should be expected to act less like a Death Eater when at Hogwarts.

I think my observation holds though that the people in Slytherin-- and that includes Head of House Snape--could do more about what their House stood for than the people outside of it.


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