Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Severus Snape's Death v2.



Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old December 18th, 2007, 11:19 pm
Morgoth's Avatar
Morgoth  Male.gif Morgoth is offline
Genius Loci
 
Joined: 6404 days
Location: Fons et Origo
Posts: 7,285
Severus Snape's Death v2.

Version 1

Previous posts:

The_Green_Woods:    


  
I did not like Snape die for one. But most importantly I felt he should not have died. As I wrote in the LS threads, Jo, I feel made him the grey to Harry's white and Voldemort's black and redeemed him by his death, only because of her words that had Harry not been the BWL, Snape would not have bothered to turn.

But since he did, she made a hero out of him, but killed him for his redemption to be complete.

Snape was indeed a death eater who joined willingly and chose that way for himself. He turned because of Lily and went on to fight the death eaters for the rest of his life.

I did not want him to die because I felt he had already paid his dues time and again to the society he harmed for a while.

He worked for almost 16 years to undo the mistakes of perhaps four years or so of being a death eater. But sadly he died and he died without knowing if Harry would understand him through th memories he gave at the time of death.

Edit ::
Quote:
posted by wwb
Imo, Snape didn't think he was dying in vain, even if he couldn't get Harry the memories. Snape knew that by saying nothing and allowing Voldemort to believe he was the master of the Elder Wand, Voldemort would be fooled into believing himself invincible by killing Snape. Voldemort would stop seeking the 'true master' of the Elder Wand and thus he could be killed once Harry (the horcrux) had died. Snape knew that Dumbledore's portrait could inform Harry that he was a horcrux if all else failed, imo.
But Snape did not know about the Elder wand until he was almost at death's door, and once he saw Harry, I think he just let out the memories he wanted Harry to have and died. I really don't think he spared a thought to the Elder wand.
  



Pearl_Took:    


  
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy View Post
I believe Snape felt it was deserved because of his own words in POA. He said that if one arrogantly placed their trust in another (their life in another's hands), they were well served in facing the consequences, including death (POA, The Servant of Lord Voldemort, Brit. Ed, pg. 265). Snape had placed his trust Dumbledore and Dumbledore had betrayed that trust, by knowingly making it appear to Voldemort that Snape was the master of the Elder Wand, without telling Snape. Personally, I don't agree with this, but that is how Snape indicated he looked at it.
This is a fascinating theory, but I don't quite see how you arrive at it. Snape doesn't know about all that stuff about the Elder Wand, does he?!

I don't know what I think about the Dumbledore betraying Snape theory either. I would really love to believe that Albus didn't do this to Severus, that he deliberately planned for Snape not to be master of the Wand, thus sealing Snape's death sentence, otherwise, I am just beginning to recover my opinion of Albus, and thinking he was capable of being so cold-blooded towards Severus would make my opinion plummet again.

Quote:
Imo, Snape didn't think he was dying in vain, even if he couldn't get Harry the memories. Snape knew that by saying nothing and allowing Voldemort to believe he was the master of the Elder Wand, Voldemort would be fooled into believing himself invincible by killing Snape. Voldemort would stop seeking the 'true master' of the Elder Wand and thus he could be killed once Harry (the horcrux) had died. Snape knew that Dumbledore's portrait could inform Harry that he was a horcrux if all else failed, imo.
Well, this all supposes that Snape knows all about the Elder Wand, and I don't think he did. Oh well, it's all supposition.

And the whole Elder Wand thing hurts my brain.

I would love to know what was going through poor Sev's mind the moments before Nagini struck. Waaaah. Rowling writes him as being, apparently, somewhat out of his depth. This really is unlike Snape, to be honest ...

But, while the fan theories about his possibly survival are lots of fun, I have no problem with her killing Snape off. I was not expecting Snape to survive Book 7, not in his incredibly dangerous role as double agent. Rowling made him the most tragic character in her wizarding saga, and in this reader's eyes the guy died a total hero.
  



wickedwickedboy:    


  
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Green_Woods View Post
But Snape did not know about the Elder wand until he was almost at death's door, and once he saw Harry, I think he just let out the memories he wanted Harry to have and died. I really don't think he spared a thought to the Elder wand.
I agree that it is altogether possible Snape believed Voldemort and thought he actually was the master of the Elder Wand when he died. It is possible Snape did not know any of the lore behind the wand and didn't realize that a previous master had to be overcome, not just killed. I don't think that was the case though because Snape wanted to get to Harry - he asked Voldemort to let him go to the boy several times. I think if Snape believed himself to be the master of the wand, he'd of tried to take it from Voldemort with a disarming or summoning spell and held the Dark Lord off so that he could escape and get to Harry. Seeing as he knew Voldemort was going to kill him, it wouldn't have mattered that the Dark Lord would know Snape was loyal to Dumbledore at that point. That Snape died without trying to say or do anything, leads me to believe that Snape had worked out the truth. Voldemort even said to Snape: "Perhaps you already know it? You are a clever man, after all, Severus." (He was speaking of Snape knowing he was the master of the Elder Wand and thus must die.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
This is a fascinating theory, but I don't quite see how you arrive at it. Snape doesn't know about all that stuff about the Elder Wand, does he?!
Well I don't believe Snape knew about it until Voldemort told him, just before killing him. But at that point he knew.

Quote:
I don't know what I think about the Dumbledore betraying Snape theory either. I would really love to believe that Albus didn't do this to Severus, that he deliberately planned for Snape not to be master of the Wand, thus sealing Snape's death sentence, otherwise, I am just beginning to recover my opinion of Albus, and thinking he was capable of being so cold-blooded towards Severus would make my opinion plummet again.
I know what you mean and I agree it would be wrong of Dumbledore. Perhaps Dumbledore felt Snape would somehow survive, but I don't see how he could have thought that. Dumbledore knew Voldemort would seek the Elder Wand; he knew he was the last master; and he knew Voldemort would believe Snape had killed him and was the new master - all of which happened. I think Snape worked that out, he was very intelligent. The only thing Snape could not be sure of was that Dumbledore knew Voldemort would seek out the Elder Wand - but Snape was wise enough to know that the intelligent Dumbledore would have at least considered the possibility - especially following the graveyard fiasco (which Voldemort recounted to Snape in his speech before killing him - but Snape likely already knew how Harry had survived the graveyard because he was an Order member and they all knew).

Thus I don't think Snape died believing Voldemort had outwitted Dumbledore; I think he died having worked out the truth.


Quote:
And the whole Elder Wand thing hurts my brain.
Mine too.
  





THIS DEBATE CAN AND PROBABLY WILL CAUSE PEOPLE TO GET A BIT HOT UNDER THE COLLAR. SO IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO DISPENSE WITH THE UN-PLEASANTRIES THEN YOU'LL SIT OUTSIDE THE DEBATE FOR A FEW DAYS/WEEKS/FOREVER. IF SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION WARRANTS AN INVESTIGATION BY A MEMBER OF STAFF, THEN PLEASE REPORT IT, OTHERWISE RESPECT IT AND MOVE ON.

Additionally please read How to have a pleasant conversation on any topic and Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD


Snape's Death

Chapter 32 - The Elder Wand - Page 527 UK (Adult) Hardback edition:And Voldemort swiped the air with the Elder Wand. It did nothing to Snape, who for a split second seemed to think he had been reprieved: but then Voldemort's intention became clear. The snake's cage was rolling through the air, and before Snape could do anything more than yell, it had encased him, head and shoulders, and Voldemort spoke in Parseltongue.
'Kill.'
There was a terrible scream. Harry saw Snape's face losing the little colour it had left, it whitened as his black eyes widened, as the snake's fangs pierced his neck, as he failed to push the enchanted cage off himself, as his knees gave way, and he fell to the floor.
'I regret it,' said Voldemort coldly.
He turned away; there was no sadness in him, no remorse. It was time to leave this shack and take charge, with a wand that would now do his full bidding. He pointed it at the starry cage holding the snake, which drifted upwards, off Snape, who fell sideways on to the floor, blood gushing from the wounds in his neck. Voldemort swept from the room without a backwards glance, and the great serpent floated after him in its huge protective sphere...


This thread is to discuss the manner in which he died, whether it was justified and how you felt about it. Please apply your answers and discussions in the context of Snape's death.

Questions:

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?


Snape's Legacy

Chapter 32 - The Elder Wand - Page 528 UK (Adult) Hardback edition:
He did not know why he was doing it, why he was approaching the dying man: he did not know what he felt as he saw Snape's white face, and the fingers trying to staunch the bloody wound at his neck. Harry took off the Invisibility Cloak and looked down upon the man he hated, whose widening black eyes found Harry as he tried to speak. Harry bent over him; and Snape seized the front of his robes and pulled him close.
A terrible rasping, gurgling noise issue from Snape's throat.
'Take ... it ... Take ... it ...'
Something more than blood was leaking from Snape. Silvery blue, neither gas nor liquid, it gushed from his mouth and his ears and his eyes, and Harry knew what it was, but did not know what to do -
A flask, conjured from thin air, was thrust into his shaking hands by Hermione. Harry lifted the silvery substance into it with his wand. When the flask was full to the brim, and Snape looked as though there was no blood left in him, his grip on Harry's robes slackened.
'Look ... at ... me ...' he whispered.
The green eyes found the black, but after a second something in the depths of the dark pair seemed to vanish, leaving them fixed, blank and empty. The hand holding Harry thudded to the floor, and Snape moved no more.


6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?


__________________
Brave New World
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old December 19th, 2007, 12:16 am
Pearl_Took's Avatar
Pearl_Took  Female.gif Pearl_Took is offline
Zonko's Employee
 
Joined: 4437 days
Location: The Shire
Posts: 3,634
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Thanks for the new thread. I'll bite.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I saw it coming, so was not surprised that Severus actually died. I was shocked by the brutality of it. And I found Snape's death scene tremendously moving ... the fact that Harry revealed himself in the last moments, the fact that their eyes met, etc.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Logic says of this character that he could/should/would have been a lot more prepared for an attack by Nagini, especially at this late stage of the game. The guy was fiercely intelligent: surely he would have carried some antivenin or Blood Replenishing Potion upon his person ... this is VOLDEMORT he's dealing with!

But Rowling decides she needs him dead, so poor Severus must die.

He seems to be wrong-footed and shocked by what Voldemort says about the Elder Wand. It's the only time we see Severus at a loss for words ... seconds away from his death.


3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?


Well, his very dramatic death was a 'fitting' way for this most tragic of Rowling's characters to exit her saga, because it's very memorable! I didn't find his death unheroic: I already regarded Snape as a hero before he died!

I find it tragic that Snape died virtually alone and friendless, due to his bitterness and the very isolated nature of his work as a double agent.

I do not believe he deserved such a death: I would not wish my worst enemy to die in such a way, and Snape, as we all know now, is very far from being an enemy (however unlikable his behaviour is at times!!)

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Charity Burbage was murdered and devoured by Nagini in the opening chapter, which was extremely brutal and shocking. Then we had Nagini stuffed in the carcass of Bathilda Bagshot - ugh! So Rowling was already amping the violence up. But, you know, good on her: she was writing a war in which people were battling a ruthless Dark Lord with horrible occultic powers!

However: I did find Severus's death the most violent and upsetting - it's incredibly brutal.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I did not expect him to survive Book 7, his life as a double agent was so dangerous. So I was not surprised that Rowling killed him off. I was a little taken aback by how incredibly agonising she made his death!

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

On my first reading, I believed Snape did this deliberately, and I hold to that interpretation. He was a powerful wizard, and even in his dying agony, the man has enough presence of mind to transmit that vital information to Harry. The choice of memories he gives to Harry seems very deliberate to me.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I wonder if he could have thought of another magical method in which to get those memories to Harry ... a confrontation with Harry was too fraught with difficulty, Harry hated him, seeing as a murderer and enemy and would have wanted to kill him!

I am not convinced that Snape would have planned his death. There's nothing in canon about that, so this would be pure speculation ... fascinating, nonetheless.


8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?


Not at all. I already had Snape pegged as working for the right side, he was already a favourite character of mine. I knew that his motives would be revealed and vindicated in DH, and I gave an inner whoop of joy when I read the title, 'The Prince's Tale'. I had tremendous compassion for the bleak tragedy of his life as I read that chapter. He paid a heavy price for the awful choices he made in his youth.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?

Well, from a literary POV ... probably, yes. We remember the famous heroes in literature when they die tragically, e.g. Hamlet.

I would however have preferred him to die having reached some sort of reconciliation with Harry, and vice versa.

All I can cling to in that regard is "Look ... at ... me."


__________________

Last edited by Pearl_Took; December 19th, 2007 at 12:19 am.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old December 19th, 2007, 1:12 am
ecardina  Female.gif ecardina is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4454 days
Location: Scotland
Age: 27
Posts: 121
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react? I actually turned away from the book and said aloud "Oh... oh... I didn't see that coming." I also think I went "how horrible... poor man" but that may have been reaction after the prince's tale xD

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable? I think it was inevitable. We can't presume that Snape wasn't careful enough- he was extremely careful and would have to be if he spent the good part of 17 years lieing and spying to and at very dangerous people. In a way I think he wanted some rest. He was a very dutiful man, after all, and considering the whole 'Lily' flair I can only imagine he'd want to be 'dead with her'.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

I find it ironic that 'Snape' was killed by a 'Snake'. It was fitting in a way, he deserved an end and in a way I think he probably was hoping to bring himself to death at some point. Maybe the killing curse would have been kinder though? After a life of suffering they make him literally suffer dieing.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Yeah, considering we just saw Bathilda Bagshot get sort of consumed by a snake and we saw all other horrible things... and I was completely sure of myself that we'd see...

...A giant eating a person.

Look, I have nothing against Giants but after reading '..grind his bones to make us bread..' and all of that I wouldn't be terribly suprised if a giant randomly picked up something and chewed their head off.

I don't think Hagrid would have approved somehow.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I had always seen him as dieing somehow. To me, Snape just didn't see the sort of person to be allowed to live in a 'utopia'. He'd much rather be dead. He just, to me, didn't seem like the surviving type, and after the 6th book I had a hunch he would killed (though maybe not directly by Harry) in the 7th. Can you see Snape in a voldemort-free, happy descrimination-free world? I certainly can't.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?
You can give someone your memories but I was under the impression that they were lost with death or travelled with the soul with everything else that made up a personality. I'm pretty sure Snape gave them to Harry. Why else say 'take it'. And in other death cases we don't see the memories leaving like that.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?
I can't see Snape planning his own death. His main purpose was to help Harry out- he wasn't just going to get killed and hope for the best. I think Snape would have wanted to stick around to see Voldemort draw his very last breath. And had that happened- well, maybe Snape would have something up his sleeve. He was an intelligent man. But it would be far too dangerous to write this information down or keep his memories somewhere in the school. Maybe it would have been lost and maybe Snape would have been glad of it. We know in the 3rd book that he does take pride in some of the things he does but I don't think he'd want anything of that to be remembered or praise. Love is a weakness in some ways.


8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?
An incredibly change. Typically I love him now. But I don't see how we could be expected to love him before hand- he's horrible! I love what he did... and what he was before... but after, ick.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
Oh yes. He made it very clear he wanted to die earlier on. He had a purpose, forfilled it and ended it. Much like a puppet in someways... the action was finished and Dumbledore had his use out of Severus T. Snape, as did Jo. His death was well deserved. =) not everyone sees it as a horrible thing, personally im rather hopeful about my fate.


__________________
One of Rowena's
~~


Snape
"I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death — if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach."
Image: http://hettie-young.deviantart.com/g...craps#/d2wqhyt
by me.

Last edited by ecardina; December 19th, 2007 at 1:16 am.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old December 19th, 2007, 1:50 am
aly_zabeth  Female.gif aly_zabeth is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4417 days
Posts: 0
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

Well I had always been a Snape fan, and in all truth it made me want to vomit. The imagery in my mind was so horrible I was thinking, No being other than Voldemort deserves to be killed like this.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

I think that his death was inevitable the second that Voldemort realized that he 'needed' to kill him. Snape may be older than Draco was when the latter thought there was no escaping Voldemort, but without the help of Dumbledore I doubt that Snape would get to far before he was caught and slaughtered.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

I think the fact that Snape had a tragic life shows that he should have had a more valiant death. It takes convincing people to believe that he was a good man. I think Snape deserved to die with some dignity rather than laying on the floor gurgling in his own blood.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

I really thought this was something I would never see in these books. I thought the extent of goriness we would get would be a few wounds that could be healed in seconds but this just shocked me. And like I said before the imagery was absolutley disgusting.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I thought Snape would most likely die just because he had had such a sad life. I was always a believer in the Snape is good theory and if that stood true, he would either be killed by Voldemort, or get so torn up with the emotional battle inside him Jo couldn't bare to let such a poor soul live.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I think it was only when he saw Harry otherwise, Voldemort could have waltzed back into the room and picked thru Snape's memories to realize Harry was a horcrux and so forth, it just wouldn't have been good and I think Snape, of all people, would be able to control that.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I dont think Snape thought about dying at all. I think if he believed he was going to die he would have left the memories in the pensive in the headmasters office. But, due to the circumstance of his departing I doubt he had planned much for this.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

Not much as I had always seen Snape as a good character although it probably did increase my already strong sympathy for him a bit.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?

I think if she had let him live I would have been more terrible than if she had killed one of the trio. He had such a pityful life and to let a soul live like that would have been torture.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old December 19th, 2007, 2:28 am
DeathlyH's Avatar
DeathlyH  Male.gif DeathlyH is offline
Defender of Dogs
 
Joined: 4719 days
Location: In a dream
Posts: 2,129
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?
I, like most others saw it coming the moment Lucius was sent to fetch Snape. It wasn't really a surprise that Voldemort killed him, because I always knew he would be good, but the way it happened was ugly. No one, not even Snape, deserves to get their head chomped by a snake besides Voldemort. I cringed at that. I didn't feel sad one bit, because he made Harry completely miserable in class just because of some stupid grudge. No matter how much he helped, I was still pretty pleased to see Snape die.

Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?
Snape may have been able to try and stop Voldemort, at least, but the thing is, I don't think he even cared any more. As soon as he saw that Harry was right there with him in the shack, he gave him the memories, and his mission was done. Dumbledore was dead, Lily was long dead, and the task he had been assigned long ago was completed. I honestly don't think he wanted to live anymore. He didn't care if Voldemort won, he didn't care about Harry, even though he protected him. It was all for Lily. No one missed him. So even if he could have saved himself, I doubt he would have. He had lost the will to live.

Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?
Sort of. Someone who has that much guilt on thier conscience couldn't possibly live to an old Dumbledore age. Snape possibly had the most dangerous job of anyone but Harry, playing a double agent. He knew that as soon as he was discovered by Voldemort, he would die. I doubt he thought he would die of old age or something. His life was nothing but sadness and grief, so it only fits that he had a gruesome death when he was discovered by Voldemort as a traitor. Plus, he deserved to die because he was so cruel to Harry.

Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?
I knew something like that would come sooner or later. A ton of reports had said that this book was going to be darker and 'deathlier' than the previous ones. We were told by the NY Times that at least six characters would die. They couldn't all die from AK. So far, the scariest way of someone dying was from drapery. I sort of expected stuff like this. Voldemort was losing his Horcruxes, and he was mad. I knew he would have to take his anger out on someone, and that someone was Snape.

I didn't think it was the worst possible death, though. I actually thought Crabbe's was more horrible and painful. But as far as Snape's death goes for violence, I knew it would come.

Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?
I knew he would as soon as Lucius was sent to fetch him. During that scene, Voldemort had been twirling the Elder Wand around and I knew that meant it was bothering him. I actually figured it out before Harry did that Snape took it from Dumbledore after he was killed. Of course, I forget that Draco Disarmed him first. Anyways, I knew Voldemort would do nothing short of killing him to have the EW finally be his.

When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?
Probably. Dumbledore had made it very important to him that Harry find those memories. The least Snape could do then was release the memries so that he had done all he could. The rest depended on whether or not someone showed up later to get them.

Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?
That would have really been tough. MAybe he could have sent them to him through Legilimency if Harry had not been in the Shack? I don't know what the exact powers of that are, so it would be hard to guess.

After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?
Not too much, they didn't. Like I said, I knew since HBP that he would be good because of the way that Jo set him up so mysteriously. Even after he died, I still absolutely hated him for bieng such a jerk to everyone, but I had to give him a certain respect after reading 'The Prince's Tale.' He risked all that he had (which wasn't much) just to protect the son of the woman he loved, who he hated. I also felt just a little bad for him after I learned how sucky his childhood had been. All in all, though, he was a big jerk to all the kids.

Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
I guess so. He had to die for Harry to accept he was on the right side and would risk his life to obey Dumbledore's wishes. The way that he died was only used to show the darkness of the war and all that. Now that he was dead, he was finally peaceful. Does that make any sense?


Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old December 19th, 2007, 2:43 am
RemusLupinFan's Avatar
RemusLupinFan  Female.gif RemusLupinFan is offline
I want to believe
 
Joined: 5719 days
Location: The office in the basement
Posts: 5,897
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?
I thought it was interesting the way it was written, to have Snape's memories come out of him like that. That surprised me, but his death really didn't. I saw it coming, though the manner in which he died also surprised me.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?
Given Snape's dangerous position as a spy, I do think his death was pretty much inevitable. I thought it was bound to happen one way or another by the end of the book. I'm not sure there's much he could have done to prevent his death - if Voldemort wants someone dead he usually gets his wish.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?
Well, I think very few people in the series deserved to die, and I don't count Snape among them. He may have been a nasty man, but in the end he had some redeeming qualities. But there is a certain fittingness to his death in that he died trying to undo what he inadvertently did to Lily.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?
Knowing there was a war being fought, I didn't really think about the manner of death of the characters. But I did expect it to be mostly the AK variety where death is quick and clean.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?
I had always thought that Snape would end up dying to protect Harry from Voldemort. It really wasn't a surprise for me that Snape was killed, considering his dangerous role as spy. I figured he'd either get found out by Voldemort or he'd make a split-second decision during a confrontation between Harry and Voldemort to intervene, and thus get killed in the act.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?
They probably would have come out regardless of who showed up (but only if that person was loyal to Dumbledore). I think Snape probably would have wanted to the truth to be known about him so people would know he really did switch sides and that he killed Dumbledore for a reason other than just to murder him. But I think there were some memories that he likely wouldn't have shared with anyone other than Harry, since Harry was Lily's son.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?
I don't think he would have planned his death, but I do think he probably wanted Harry and others to know the truth. I'm not really sure how he could have disclosed those memories without alerting Voldemort - I'm not sure he was focused on doing that during the events of DH or otherwise.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?
Well, it certainly clarified that Snape was working for the good side, but only because of Lily. The character's bravery was definitely shown during that chapter, but it doesn't really change my opinion of him a whole lot. I've never really liked Snape, and I still don't really care for the character, but I can certainly appreciate that in the end he was willing to put his life on the line and take up an immensely dangerous position in order to try and right a wrong he had committed in the past. I can respect him for that. And I also commend him for helping Harry all this time, despite his immature behavior toward him.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
I guess. I thought of his death more as a plot device than a way to end his suffering though. As I mentioned above, I think his death was inevitable and as such, having the memories come out of him like that was a great way for us (and Harry) to see his past, which contained vital information to answer many long-standing questions. I don't think Snape would have shared some of those memories if he'd remained alive.


__________________

X-Files is the property of Ten Thirteen Productions, 20th Century Fox
WolfCloak30 Pottermore
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old December 19th, 2007, 5:12 am
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4666 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
Version 1
Questions:

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?


6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
1. I felt very disappointed. Every crime has its own punishment and I felt that Snape had repaid his dues to the WW time and again for the crimes he had comitted as a death eater. He could have lived is what I feel.

2. He could have, had he known about the Elder wand and that Voldemort at that time thought Snape to be its Master. But Dumbledore did not tell him and he died standing there, before even he could draw his wand in defence.

3. I wish he lived. But since he had to die, I would have thought that he would die saving Harry or some such thing. But perhaps, he did die saving Harry, only not actively taking a curse meant for Harry, but in giving the most vital information that would save Harry in the end. So to that end I suppose he died a hero's death. But still, I wish he had not died at all.

4. Yes, the books have been getting steadily darker with dark creatures and dark magic introduced from POA. Dementors, inferi, horcruxes, werewolves...

5. I always thought Snape would live; in fact I was dead sure that he would live and so will Harry. While I thought Harry had to live to emphasize the victory of good over evil, since so many good persons had already died, I also thought Snape would live as well, because he had paid his dues to the WW. He had put his life time and again for the Light, and even killed for the Light (Dumbledore). I feel very much that he should have lived. Sadly he died.

6. I thought it was an incredible display of wandless magic, and they came out only for Harry. Snape sees Harry, his eyes widen and then the silvery memories start gushing out. Those memories would not have come for others is what I believe.

Quote:
TPT - DH
He did not know why he was doing it, why he was approaching the dying man: he did not know what he felt as he saw Snape's white face, and the fingers trying to staunch the bloody wound at his neck. Harry took off the Invisibility Cloak and looked down upon the man he hated, whose widening black eyes found Harry as he tried to speak. Harry bent over him; and Snape seized the front of his robes and pulled him close.
A terrible rasping, gurgling noise issue from Snape's throat.
'Take ... it ... Take ... it ...'
Something more than blood was leaking from Snape. Silvery blue, neither gas nor liquid, it gushed from his mouth and his ears and his eyes, and Harry knew what it was, but did not know what to do -

7. I don't think Snape planned his death; but I would not be surprised to learn that he did in the future.

I also believe had Harry not been there Snape would have died without handing over the most important information Harry needed to survive. I really don't think he could have handed the memories any other way, not at that point when he was almost dead.

8. No.

9. No.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old December 19th, 2007, 7:17 am
FleurduJardin  Female.gif FleurduJardin is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 4938 days
Location: Shuttling between Europe & US
Posts: 1,607
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

I'd like to get into this in more detail, but it's almost 1:30 a.m. now and I don't have the time. Just putting a couple of lines in, so that I get response notifications on the thread for coming back to it later.

For the time being, let me just say that Snape's death was, in my opinion, the saddest in the whole book, but also very fitting to his character and his life.

It's another of those fortuitous coincidences (or we could call them plot devices) that Harry just happened to be there at Snape's death, and that Voldemort used a slower way of killing than the AK Curse, or we'd never have learned of the Prince's Tale, and Harry would never have known he had to go for a walk in the forest. Can you imagine how the book would have ended if Snape's memories had died with him? **shudder**


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old December 19th, 2007, 11:08 am
Yoana's Avatar
Yoana  Female.gif Yoana is offline
Assistant to Minister Granger
 
Joined: 5106 days
Location: Bulgaria
Age: 37
Posts: 6,435
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I don't remember But I expected him to die, so I wasn't shocked.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

I'm really frustrated by this sort of questions, ebcause we as readers know that this is how it was supposed to happen - so no, he couldn't have done anything unles the author had made him do it.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

This sounds almost like asking if he deserved his death. Of course not. His death was dramatic and shocking because he was such an important character, a major plot key, and an instrument of the central twist in the story, o he coulsn't have dies quietly or off page.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

I liked the fact that it stood out. In this sense, it is very fitting of Severus's character.

I wasn't particularly surprised at the brutality, Jo had long proven she doesn't care for over-protection in children's literature (another reason to respect her).

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I was positive he would die. I can't point a particular raeson, it was just my conviction.


Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old December 19th, 2007, 11:21 am
xmermaidx  Female.gif xmermaidx is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 4428 days
Location: Room of Requirement
Age: 25
Posts: 81
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl_Took View Post
2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Logic says of this character that he could/should/would have been a lot more prepared for an attack by Nagini, especially at this late stage of the game. The guy was fiercely intelligent: surely he would have carried some antivenin or Blood Replenishing Potion upon his person ... this is VOLDEMORT he's dealing with!
I completely disagree- like you said, this is Voldemort we're dealing with. Voldemort, the evil, cruel, heartless creature who would go to any lengths to kill the person he thought was standing in the way of his power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aly_zabeth View Post
2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

I think that his death was inevitable the second that Voldemort realized that he 'needed' to kill him. Snape may be older than Draco was when the latter thought there was no escaping Voldemort, but without the help of Dumbledore I doubt that Snape would get to far before he was caught and slaughtered.
Exactly. For someone like Harry, with all the protection like from his mother, Petunia, and the Elder Wand, he stood a chance. And Dumbledore, the greatest wizard ever, well he certainly stood a chance :]
But Snape? Yup, Snape was a magnificent wizard; very talented. But nowhere near the talent of Dumbledore.


__________________

The Potter Mermaid. =]
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old December 19th, 2007, 10:19 pm
Grymmditch's Avatar
Grymmditch  Male.gif Grymmditch is offline
Fifth Year
 
Joined: 4724 days
Location: Atop the Wizard's tower
Age: 57
Posts: 887
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I continued reading ... ? Actually, I was surprised, because up to then, Snape was clearly LV's right hand man, easily demonstrating himself to be the most competent of his henchmen. But then again, LV isn't rational.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

He didn't see it coming until it was a little too late. All he could do was repeat, "Let me bring you the boy". How do you prevent LV from killing you if he wants to? Snape was among the most powerful of wizards, but..

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Very poetic, yes.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

Yeah, but there are far worse ways to die. No biggie, really. I think for LV, it was a less personal way to do it., since, technically, Nagini killed him.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?


I was pretty sure Snape would die at Harry's hands !

Snape's Legacy

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

That doesn't appear to happen upon every wizard or witches death - I'm very sure Snape did that himself, and in fact controlled exactly which memories Harry needed to see. What surprised me is that Harry never questioned the validity of those memories, especially since they asked him to die! He took it all a little ... too well, I think.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

No. But I would hope that Snape had some method in mind for convincing Harry what he needed to do. How do you convince someone they need to die for the greater good? Especially when that person hates your guts and doesn't trust you one iota? There was really no other way for it to happen, actually, which makes it a bit convenient.... maybe a little too convenient. JKR never left us any information regarding how Snape planned to talk to Harry before his death.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

About 70%. I had thought Snape was evil through and through before especially after Spinners End, but even though he turned out to be working for DD, as Jo says, he's still not a hero. He was a nasty man no matter how you slice it. Frankly I still have issues with the whole "he did it for Lily" thing.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
[
Well, it worked, so sure, I guess, although I would have preferred a chance for live reconciliation between Harry and Snape. What a discussion that would've been!


__________________
Lord Grymmditch
but call me Grymm
Qualis vir, talis oratio
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old December 20th, 2007, 3:13 am
Aisha  Female.gif Aisha is offline
First Year
 
Joined: 4820 days
Age: 31
Posts: 62
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

I've just realized I had not answered these questions until now.... So here goes:


1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I put my head in my hands and waited for a minute or so to absorb it and then continued the story anyway.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

Well, what wickedwickedboy said to this answer, about shouting about killing Dd only because he asked, looks like the only option but I'm very sure Voldemrt would not have gone for it and it didn't occurred to him at the point, the guy didn't know about the elder's wand business till the last minute. He was confused and was worried about giving info. to Harry and was rather intimidated and was in company of Voldemort and was taken off guard and..... Worst scenario.... so in the end it was inevitable, he could hardly have done anything about it, or he would have.


3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Brough upon himself??...give the guy a break please...Anyway I think its fitting with the tragic story of his life from literary pov, though I would have liked a lot if he had died saving Harry, but in the end his death was wonderfully written. It fits with the general pattern of his character arc very perfectly. It was different and also stood out in the whole series which made it all the better.

And if the question means he deserved it than no.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

of course, he's isn't the only death that's horrible.


5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?


I knew he was a goner for sure since HBP. Somewhere along his "discussion" with Voldemort I realized that the time has come and prepared myself for it.

As to why I think he was doomed to die? It fits his character arc, what exactly would he have done after the end?

He was at Hogwards only because Dd was there and because it was the demand for the story otherwise the guy was wayyy too talented to be perfectly on any higher position or more specifically in a role like a spy, it wouldn't have suited him to go teaching again after everything. And his purpose was to be useful in the story and he did not have anyone like Ron, Hermione or Ginny for Harry. He was alone and this also asked for his death to be give a proper end..


6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

What??? Where did you get this idea???


7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?


Wait I've just read the question again and well..... Why would he have planned his death.. there are ways to give info. to Harry without his death being involve and I think he is sensible enough to follow them if death is the only other option. As to what they were, he could have simply grabbed Harry in the battle or in forest of Dean and gave him the memories if death was the only other option, at least there was a "chance factor" than that he could survive.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

I pride myself, as an hp fan, upon the fact that I knew Snape was good from the start. There never occurred a single doubt in my mind about him ever and it was since I never have heard Lily's theory or was very indifferent to him. This was because his character never had the pattern to come out total villain, so in conclusion, no, my feeling are same before and after "Prince tale". I still like him a lot.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?

Self induced??.. You don't like him very much do you...Anyway again,Yes, unless and until somehow he and Harry have become Ok with each other perfectly, but this isn't a thing that can be achieved in a single book that has so many stories going in every direction and unless he had find another useful purpose in life to live.

--------------------
--------------------



Last edited by Aisha; December 23rd, 2007 at 4:21 am.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old December 20th, 2007, 3:29 am
dumbleISdead dumbleISdead is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 4920 days
Posts: 387
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

IMO it was necessary for Snape to die. To me he is one of those characters that is always going to be miserable no matter what, and there was just nothing left for him. I couldn't imagine Snape after Voldemort's fall. He would be the same person entirely, and there would be no use for him really.


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old December 20th, 2007, 4:42 am
Leslie33  Female.gif Leslie33 is offline
Fourth Year
 
Joined: 5273 days
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 650
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react? I was always resigned to the fact he would die. I thought it was horrible in that Voldemort played with his emotions and held him a prisoner like that. I have the DVD and his death goes from being really gross/scary to sad. when I heard him saying "Look...at...me", it was so sad and I started crying.

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable? No, even if he went "underground" and lived under an assumed name, the Death Eaters would have caught up with him. As to why he didn't pull out his wand, I don't know, but I think he knew he was trapped and panicked. When he did finally react, it was too late.
3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself? Absolutely not. I would have LOVED to have seen him pull out his wand and go down battling Voldemort, protecting Harry. However, he still did protect Harry.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse? No, not at all. The brutality to it was horrible. To see such a strong character die like that was brutal. To see Severus go from being a smooth talker to stuttering, shaking, begging for help was gut wrenching. This made his death heroic to me.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did? Since re-reading HBP, I was resigned to the fact Severus would die. The reasons are as follows.
1. He killed Albus Dumbledore. Even though he was helping to end Albus' suffering and potential and likely painful and torturous death at the hands of a Death Eater on the Tower, Snape did kill Albus. Even if Harry had come forward and testified on Snape's behalf, many people would only see the crime he committed and not bother to look at the circumstances.
2. Voldemort used him as a Spy. This is the way I see it. Again, I don't watch Spy movies and never watched "The Sopranos", but I have seen enough movies and profiles of Mobsters on AMW. Severus was nothing more than a dispensible Spy or Mole for Voldemort. Once he had served his purpose, he was gone. If you read between the lines, I also think Voldemort saw Severus as a threat to his security among the other Death Eaters.
Look at The Malfoy Family. Narcissa went to Severus for help when Draco was in trouble from Voldemort. Draco said Severus was his favourite Teacher at Hogwarts.
Although Wormtail was there on Voldemort's order, I somehow think he may have looked up to Snape. For whatever reason, he wasn't as clumsy/nervous/frightened in Snape's presence. No, I don't think Snape treated him well, but I don't think he abused him like Voldemort did in GOF.
So I think while most of the Death Eaters were terrifed and disgusted by Voldemort, I think a majority of them looked up to Severus. Voldemort may have sensed this among his Death Eaters and saw this as a threat to his Power among the Death Eaters. He also stood in the way of Voldemort's access to Harry Potter. Though I don't think he knew the real reason, I suspect he knew Severus had saved him and was keeping him alive. Once Snape was gone, Harry was accessible.
Again, Severus had served his purpose. Voldemort had the information he needed. Snape wasn't needed any more. As long as he was alive, he was a threat to Voldemort. He could have easily gone to the Authorities with his information. Plus again, the biggest reason HARRY POTTER. As long as Snape was alive, Harry had a fighting chance.
3. In HBP, Hagrid tells Harry he over heard a heated argument between Snape and Dumbledore. He said Snape sounded "Over worked and tired". Even back then, Severus was starting to buckle under the pressure. He then accidently hit George with the secumsempra curse. Yes, Dumbledore was telling him exactly what to say. If you have the Audio CD(which I encourage you to buy), listen to Chapter 33. Listen to how Dumbledore almost goes from being business-like friendly to pratically spoon feeding Severus. This is where Snape's talking to Dumbledore's portrait. He tells him what to say, then says "If you don't" this will happen. He had to apply this to his memory, he couldn't write it down. Snape also had to block his mind to make it appear like he got it from someone else than Albus Dumbledore himself. Okay, Snape was a superb Occlumens/Legilimens, but can you imagine LYING to Voldemort, knowing how he "tortures his Victims" until they're begging for death. Voldemort can also read people's minds. Bascially what I'm saying is, I think Snape's, or Dumbledore's lies would eventually have caught up with him. If he had been caught in a lie, he'd be killed instantly.
Plus I think it was Voldemort's plan to get Severus alone, kill him and leave him to slowly bleed to death. He was dispensible in Voldemort's eyes.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up? Wow! Now THAT is an interesting theory. I honestly never considered this. I believe they naturally bled out of him. I also believe he may have had other memories hidden somewhere else and kind of knew Harry would be there in the Shrieking Shack with him. Once again, I think Severus knew Harry was in the shrieking shack with him. At one point they were looking at the glass "acquarium" Nagini was floating around in. I think Snape may have seen Harry's eyes reflecting in the glass or through Voldemort(the time Harry unknowingly possesses him when he's pacing around Severus). At any rate, I think Snape knew his memories of Lily would be treasured by Harry, kept safe and not abused, etc.


7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? I don't see Severus planning his Death. However I'd hope he'd have made plans to somehow convince Harry of his Loyalty to Dumbledore. As for the information about Nagini, I see him leaving behind another Logic Puzzle. As smart as Voldemort was, I don't see him understanding a Logic Puzzle and having the patience to think it through. Snape knew that Ron and Hermione would be with him and Hermione loved/got Logic Puzzles. What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort? Maybe through leaving Harry love letters between him and Lily. Okay, I don't see him writing her a love letter, but I do see her writing him letters. Albus knew about the love Severus had for Lily, so I'm sure if Harry didn't get the memories from Snape in the Penseive, Albus would have told him everything he needed to know. I also think Albus would have written an explanation, had his own memories hidden somewhere. So if Harry didn't trust him, he would have eventually believed Dumbledore.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character? Not at all, I always knew Snape was good. There were too many things pointing in this direction. Although Spinners End does have you wondering, but then he WOULD tell the Sisters he's a Death Eater, he's back where he belongs, he never left them, etc.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life? I still wanted to see him fight Voldemort to the bloody end. It would have been so nice to see Snape reach some sort of amends with Harry. Something like Harry reached with Draco. Even if it was to agree to disagree, a mere "Hello" to each other. However, I think his death was right in I don't think Harry would have seen how Snape risked his life, had the same respect for him that we see in the Epilogue if he had survived. Snape's death proved how ruthless and cold-blooded Voldemort really was.


__________________



I TRUST Severus Snape!!!!

Last edited by Leslie33; December 20th, 2007 at 5:15 am.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old December 20th, 2007, 4:02 pm
Snapes_Angel2  Female.gif Snapes_Angel2 is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 5228 days
Location: With a very much alive Snape!
Age: 31
Posts: 265
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?
I was already saddened by Fred's death some 20 pages before, but Severus' death made me burst into tears! I was so distraught that I was unable to continue reading for almost an hour- which is how long it took for my tears to run out

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?
As much as I would like to say that, "Yes, He could have done more to prevent his death, at least in this manner", it's unneccessary, because, like Yoana said, it was written the way it was supposed to happen. So, technically, it's unneccessary for us to discuss how he could have prevented it; at least that's my opinion

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?
I do. He was one of the most important characters in the story, not to mention one of the most powerful, behind Voldemort and Dumbledore, and while he spent most of his life doing a job that most others would cringe at the thought of, he was never rewarded for his services- he was viewed as a murderer by all the WW after the events of HBP, and was subjected to being called a coward by the very person he was risking his life to save- and his death was very much the same way.

He spent his life doing things in the background, and he died in the background. He wasn't allowed the privlege of a true hero's death, and, if it weren't for the fact that Harry, Hermione, and Ron were there, he would have died completely alone.

Plus, while alive, noone was completely sure what side he was on; and, even in death, people were still unsure as to what side he was on.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?
Well, before reading DH's, I would have said no, because all the deaths in the previous books were done by the Killing Curse. In DH's, we see, in the very first chapter, that the deaths are going to be more severe than the one's in the previous books.

We are subjected to watching Charity Burbage die by the Killing Curse, but it doesn't stop there- we are then left with the knowledge that Nagini had just been seved dinner! And even though we weren't shown it, our imaginations did a wonderful job at detailing what that scene would have looked like. Then, we are told that Crabbe (or was it Goyle?) was left in the RoR and ended up being burned alive by the fiendfyre that one of them created. Being burned alive has to be extremely terrible- at least Charity Burbage was already dead before she was eaten by Nagini!

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?
As much as I hoped it wouldn't happen, I was pretty sure, ever since the events of HBP, that he would die before DH's was finished. I mean, he spent his life putting himself in danger, and even though he was an extremely intelligent and powerful wizard (IMO the most powerful behind Voldemort and Dumbledore), there were too many people gunning for him to allow him to live.

But, I will admit that I never imagined the reason behind his death to be what it was. I always imagined Voldemort would find out about his disloyalty during the course of the book and kill him because of it; instead, he was killed because Voldemort mistakenly thought that he was the Master of the Elder Wand, and thus had to be eliminated so that he (Voldemort) could gain control over it.

That just proves how intelligent Severus was: He kept Voldemort in the dark for 17 years where his loyalty was concerned, and even in death Voldemort never figured out the truth; leaving Harry to throw it up in Voldemort's face in the end.

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?
He had to have activated them, because we have never seen the memories of anyone else come out when they died. Of course, all the other deaths we've seen were ones done by the Killing Curse, meaning that everyone else was dead before they ever hit the floor; and, if it works the way I think it does, then their memories disappear as soon as their soul is gone from their bodies, which means that, once the Killing Curse hits you, and your soul leaves your body, there aren't any memories left to come out- which would explain why it never occured before.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?
I don't think Severus anticipated his death, at least not at that moment, and so he wouldn't have prepared a Plan B; but, as I've said before, he waqs extremely intelligent, and so it's possible he may have a Plan B already prepared. As to what Plan B was, I have no idea; and now we shall never know.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?
Not at all. Ever since we were introduced to Severus in SS, I've always firmly believed he was on the Order's side, so his memories did nothing but solidy my beliefs.

However, like wickedwickedboy, the whole "He did everything for Lily" thing weakened my image of him a little. I understand that the power of love is very powerful, as Dumbledore constantly reminded us, but it lead me to believe that the only thing he felt remorse for was her death and the fact that he was the one that gave Voldemort the prophecy that lead her to be targetted. Before learning that it was all done for Lily, I got the impression that he turned because he realized that what Voldemort and the DE's were doing was wrong, and that he wanted no part of it. But then we learn he only switched sides because of Lily- which means that, had the prophecy never been made, Lily never targetted, and thus never killed, Severus would have likely never changed sides.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?
I would have much rather seen him reach amends with Harry at some point, but that sort of happened anyway when Harry saw his memories; which is shown by the way Harry names his son after him and calls him the bravest man he's ever known.

Also, I would have liked to have seen him fighting during the final battle (by discreetly helping the Order and the students and teachers of Hogwarts); and at least attempted to fight back against Voldemort when he realized that he was going to be killed. Severus was intelliegent and powerful, and yet the most he could do was raise his wand and spout a feeble "My Lord!", then scream as Nagini's fangs sank into him. The image I had of him would have been better suited if Jo had let Severus fight back a little more than he did.

Otherthan that, though, I think Jo did a good job bringing closure to his life.


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old December 21st, 2007, 2:39 pm
Montse's Avatar
Montse  Female.gif Montse is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5273 days
Location: between wizards and jedi
Age: 43
Posts: 2,176
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Dumbledore knew Voldemort would want the wand. Also Dumbledore knew when he asked Snape to kill him, which Snape did (killed him by the way, all for the greater good *rolls eyes*, Dumbledore never told him about the Elder wand and Snape was killed because of that lack of knowledge. And I think this is off topic, because we are talking about Snape's death instead of Dumbledore's.

Im not sure this is the thread...maybe its the one about the elder wand
how would the knowledge of the wand been useful for Severus,if Dumbledore intended he got killed anyway...Maybe ,he was supposed to destroy the wand...if that was possible...I mean...Dumbledore planned on Snape to have the wand,not Malfoy,that he (DD)said he had not considered..then what was the plan?
Snape should be master onf the wand for what purpose...?
Voldy would find out about it,kill snape...and then face Harry with the dead stickin his power...even without his horcurxes that wwuld have been a very powerful voldy...
What would harry´´s move have been then...Dumbledore wouldnt have expected harry to kill snape...
I agree he never intended Harry to have the wand...?

***confused****


__________________

the days may go , the years pass, but Potter will always be in my heart.
Pottermore: Wingdawn148
Wand: sycamore core: Phoenix
surprisingly swishy
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old December 21st, 2007, 2:51 pm
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4666 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montse View Post
Dumbledore knew Voldemort would want the wand. Also Dumbledore knew when he asked Snape to kill him, which Snape did (killed him by the way, all for the greater good *rolls eyes*, Dumbledore never told him about the Elder wand and Snape was killed because of that lack of knowledge. And I think this is off topic, because we are talking about Snape's death instead of Dumbledore's.

Im not sure this is the thread...maybe its the one about the elder wand
how would the knowledge of the wand been useful for Severus,if Dumbledore intended he got killed anyway...Maybe ,he was supposed to destroy the wand...if that was possible...I mean...Dumbledore planned on Snape to have the wand,not Malfoy,that he (DD)said he had not considered..then what was the plan?
Snape should be master onf the wand for what purpose...?
Voldy would find out about it,kill snape...and then face Harry with the dead stickin his power...even without his horcurxes that wwuld have been a very powerful voldy...
What would harry´´s move have been then...Dumbledore wouldnt have expected harry to kill snape...
I agree he never intended Harry to have the wand...?

***confused****
Even if Snape would end up killed, because of the Elder wand, I think it was Dumbledore's responsibility to tell Snape about it. Snape would have been prepared for that eventuality and would ahve even told Voldemort that killing him was not necessary, Dumbledore did not kill Grindelwald; he merely defeated him and Snape could have told Voldemort that Dumbledore was MAster of the wand after only defeating Grtindelwald and not killing him.

He may have convinced Voldemort to merely disarm him and becom master of the wand, and who knows insane though Voldemort is, he may have agreed, because Snape after all killed Dumbledore for him and was considered one of the most loyal.

Instead, by not telling Snape anything about the Elder wand, Dumbledore I think set Snape to die. *sad*


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old December 21st, 2007, 3:02 pm
Montse's Avatar
Montse  Female.gif Montse is offline
Hogwarts Graduate
 
Joined: 5273 days
Location: between wizards and jedi
Age: 43
Posts: 2,176
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

oh yes.we agree on that...
Snape needen´t have died.Why would DD wanted him dead...I doubt Voldy would have killed him,he said he regreted doing so...when he had proved himself so loyal and useful...
still its Voldy we are talking about...knowing Snape knew about the death stick would have caused him paranoi about him..


__________________

the days may go , the years pass, but Potter will always be in my heart.
Pottermore: Wingdawn148
Wand: sycamore core: Phoenix
surprisingly swishy
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old December 21st, 2007, 3:24 pm
The_Green_Woods's Avatar
The_Green_Woods  Undisclosed.gif The_Green_Woods is offline
Always Indy's Girl
 
Joined: 4666 days
Posts: 6,026
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

Quote:
posted by Monste
Why would DD wanted him dead
I really don't know. Dumbledore is not like Voldemort and yet he shows little remorse for not only Snape's death but also for Moody, George's ear and Hedwig, who died because of his direct action and George lost his ear.

He made the Order to go to Privet Drive early to bring Harry and he asked Snape to tell Voldemort that Harry was escorted early from Privet Drive.

Likewise, his actions that killed Snape were passed off with a 'Poor Severus' which for me was too little for a man who spent 16 years slaving away for the Order and Dumbledore.

Yet Dumbledore I feel allowed Snape to die because he did not give the necessary information to Snape to prepare himself against Voldemort's attack.


__________________
The man who, in my opinion, won the war against Voldemort for Harry Potter and the Light! Severus Snape!

There is nothing of which every man is so afraid, as getting to know how enormously much he is capable of doing and becoming - Soren Kierkegaard

Spotlight on Snape and Molly

:indy:
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old December 21st, 2007, 3:32 pm
LoonyMagic's Avatar
LoonyMagic  Female.gif LoonyMagic is offline
Beauxbatons Champion
 
Joined: 4629 days
Location: Dreaming
Age: 28
Posts: 1,899
Re: Severus Snape's Death v2.

1. When you read Snape's death scene, how did you react?

I almost dropped the book. At this point I was too engrossed with what was happening in the war and completely didn't expect Snape's death at this time. Then the tears came...

2. Could Snape have done more to prevent his own death, at least in this manner or was it inevitable?

When you're working as a spy it's pretty hard to stay alive. It's such a dangerous position to be in. I think also with Voldemort having the idea that the Elder Wand was now Snape's, there was no way that Snape could survive. I don't believe it could have been prevented.

3. Do you consider Snape's death fitting with the tragic life he had brought upon himself?

Well, it was a very tragic and pitiful death, wasn't it? He didn't get to prove himself in any heroic way to the wizarding world, or get a chance to clear his name in any way before he died. I think it was fitting to his life - he was always going to be one of the people behind the scenes that did the most for the cause, yet was never recognised for it. I felt very sorry for him.

4. Was it the sort of death you thought you'd ever see in the Harry Potter novels, bearing in mind it was more brutal and bloody than death at the hands of the Killing Curse?

I did think it was brutal and bloody, but I belived that as we moved further through the series, we'd get more graphic descriptions of deaths. The trio are seeing more horrific things and it's in JKR's nature not to dress up situations, but to in fact face it head on and to deal with less than nice issues.

5. Up until his death what had your thoughts been on whether Snape would live or die and what were your reasons for believing what you did?

I can't really remember what I thought. I tended to keep away from Snape in my mind - it brought too much confusion

6. When Snape saw Harry do you believe he activated the memories to come out of him or do you believe they would have come out anyway regardless of whether anyone showed up?

I think he did it for Harry. I think maybe the memories of Lily would have naturally bled from him, but the parts about the horcruxes were for Harry, IMO.

7. Do you believe Snape would have planned his death and made preparations to disclose the information Harry needed had Harry not been there at that time? What other ways could he have disclosed remnants of his past without alerting Voldemort?

I think Snape thought he would live at least long enough to tell Harry. Although, I don't see how that would have worked - Harry would have killed Snape as soon as he approached him. But, I really don't think Snape anticipated his death - he was one of Voldemort's favourites and was doing a great job of keeping it that way. I don't think he knew much about the Elder Wand.

8. After you read the next chapter 'The Prince's Tale', did your feelings change at all regarding his death and the character?

I'm not sure. I was always ambigous on my feelings towards Snape. Towards his character I felt great pity. This great thing - love - that Dumbledore had proclaimed for years ended up being the thing that turned Snape into a heart-broken, bitter man who lived in the past with his thoughts and memories. I felt so sorry and upset for him and his tragic life. Yet, I felt great triumph for the fact that he'd turned it all around. He proved himself to be a great man (sure, it wasn't to the whole wizarding world) but he proved it to himself, Dumbledore and Harry.

9. Do you believe Snape's death was the right way for Jo to bring closure to his self-induced tortured life?

Yes. I think it was fitting to his life. And a great tear jerker. I really liked it


__________________
Voted Noobie of the Year in The Hogsmeade Awards.

Writing Contest ~ CoS Graphics Contest ~ LoonyMagic's Icons ~ loonyabby_icons at LiveJournal
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone

Bookmarks

Tags
severus snape, snape, snape's death


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 2:21 pm.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.